Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#112615
Sep 7, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
You really can't grasp what I said can you... Method of Conversion varies widely but there is no evidence of anything ever being Created...
Just because you have not taken the time in your life to learn of the records that exist or assume the only records that count are those written by men is only your personal issues... The Records are written at every point of conversion in the very elemental make up of the converted... And one must actually learn how to read those records which are far more informative than the pitiful writings of men...
Now back to the Egg thing.. The Question has Never been which came first the Chicken or the Chicken Egg... The Question has always been for as long as it has been asked which came first the chicken or the egg... Simple Chickens did not exist until Man took a Wild Foul and selectively bred it into what we call a Chicken... Chicken and Chicken Egg occurred at the exact same instant when the first person Name the foul he converted... But the "Egg" dates back Billions of years, long before animals walked the land....
I can not grasp what you said because you have said nothing that I could hear. I have read what you have WRITTEN ,which according to you , I should consider as " the pitiful writings of men"
Your explanation about the chicken should be featured on a comedy show.
You are alluding to an unwitnessed event that no one knows took place ,where it took place or when it took place.
other than , according to you "Chicken and Chicken Egg occurred at the exact same instant when the first person Name the foul he converted"
But I could be wrong ,, Were you there ? or did someone tell you about it? If so ,was it hundreds of years after this event took place?
You know where I am going with that ...I will go no further.
LOL

“Breaking the spell ”

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#112616
Sep 7, 2013
 
Azazel wrote:
<quoted text>
I grew up as a JW and we were not allowed to say the pledge at school because we were not allowed to pledge our allegiance to anyone except God. We could stand but we had to keep our hands down to our side and be quiet. If they played the national anthem then we were not allowed to stand for that and had to remain seated.
That makes it hard on children who then get picked on and asked why they hate their country or why they hate God. The adult JWs seldom had to go through this so it was real easy for the parents to tell their children how much it would displease God and how we might as well bow down before Satan.
Just another example of mind control over children to brainwash them at a young age. What a wasted youth.
And I note the JW do not try to dispute the system to make law, so none protested the pledge being in schools.
Thanks for showing how this pledge violates some persons religious beliefs. This is precisely why America is secular, and this pledge is not secular. The contradiction of this pledge is startling to me. It blows my mind so many cannot see the contradiction.
These people have no idea of the value of secularism.

“Breaking the spell ”

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Sep 7, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>There is less written "About" Plato, and yet you believe he existed!
Of course... don't believe what Millions of Christ's followers tell you about what Christ did for us!
Just remember this...
When you NEED Him, His Name is Jesus!
Call on Him!
You'll be Glad you did!
No one worships Plato. Plato's words are not hinged upon Plato existing or not. It does not matter if Plato was Plato. It does not matter if the writings attributed to Plato were of Plato.
Plato's words are just food for thought. No one need hinge his worldview on Plato's every word. He is free to accept of not accept his philosophies. No threats of eternal lakes of fire come with Plato's advice. Plato makes no demands. He is simply a philosopher and claims to be no more than that.

Now apply that to your Jesus. You go far beyond just taking his words as advice, you insist he is a god and must be obeyed. You insist his death caused some absolution of peoples atrocities.
I say he has no right to give this absolution, because I do not see him as a god. I am not even sure he was a person. And you cannot prove either.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#112618
Sep 7, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>We see what you Anti-Americans do to our Country...
I'll help you pack... Please leave MY Country!
So I am anti-American because I oppose the pledge? Well thanks for proving my point.
You show why it is harmful to those who just sit during this pledge. Because kids with your mentality will ostracize them for simply practicing their rights. The right to religious freedom. The right not to pledge or pray to a god. Note the JW's do not do this, as it is a sacrilege to them.

What I find Anti American is anti secularism. And you show that clearly.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#112619
Sep 7, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>We see what you Anti-Americans do to our Country...
I'll help you pack... Please leave MY Country!
It is not your country, it is all of ours. You do not tell me I must leave. Clearly you do not know how this country works. Ever heard of freedom? Evidently not. How anti American of you.
You blindly pledge yet do not even understand the core value of America, secularism.
I suspect if you really understood America was meant to be secular, you might just hate the idea of America.
Your bible is anti secularism. Your god does not promote secularism. Your bible promotes the murder of those who worship beings other than your god. This is anti secularism. This is why America is secular. America is the system that stops the murder of non believers. It's secular ideals have spread around the world. Not yet all over, as Muslims are slow to follow this ideals.
Thankfully our secularism keeps you religious fanatics in check. You cannot legally murder non believers anymore.
haven0t forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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This was not written to me, but I want to take the opportunity to strongly agree with you in your condemnation of that commenter. And of almost every Republican and rightwing hypocrit, whether in media, political office or campaign operation, or individual citizen. I think that the haters are traitors, effectively, beginning with Rush Limbaugh and everyone who supports him, and including most of Fox, Ann Coulter and all the other - excuse me ladies - rightwing blonde bimbos on TV.

I think much of what was Bush's fault was even more the fault of those who promoted him as a candidate for President, when he was not qualified, and then of his high officials, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Pipes, Fieith, Abrams, Poindexter, and of the media neocons who so avidly promoted the war - Crystal, however it is spelled, and so many others, and not even excusing some of the socalled mainstream media.

I am now proud of many on MSNBC who are strongly anti-invasion of Syria - Chris Matthews is a bit hotheaded about it, but Chris Hayes is magnificent as usual in his careful thoughtfulness. I also am proud of Rachel, Larry O'Donnell (Last Word), Ezra Klein, Ed Schultz, and the other outspoken ones, and even the pretty ones!
I believe that the evidence is probably convincing. I doubt that the outcome of a US military strike would be better than to wait and try other options first. If Syria launches a second chemical weapon attack because of international inaction, then there would be a better case and a better chance to round up more allies. but I favor something more radical, such as asking Russia to develop a zone around its naval base, for Assad and his supporters, but with access to the sea for international shippint. Then the chemical weapons should be gathered into the Russian naval zone, and safely destroyed with UN supervision. Let Russia be the heroes who save the situation, that would be the one way to get them to help. Then partition Syria, and move people into land areas occupied by people with one religion and tribe, and whatever, and make it a federation. Half of the Middle Eastern nations need to be divided in such a way, since their boundaries make no sense./ Drawn up by some idiot Englishmen a century ago, as Jon Stewart and John Oliver demonstrated.
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Are you serious? Not looking for war? Not Bush's fault? Bullshit. It is all Bush's fault, and he wanted war. He sought war. He begged for war. He got his war.
Look at the partisan, giving a pass to his boy. What a joke you are. You have no credibility to say a thing about Obama in war if this is your attitude. Why? Because you have double standards. Double standards are a true sign of being wrong. This is how I judge religion, and this is how I judge you. You are consistently a hypocrite. You are so consistently hypocritical, it really just boggles my mind.

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>You said she was a vegi... how did she tell you "I don't feel good"?
I've seen people that were in comas for 10 years, and popped out of it!
They didn't know anything about it, and some didn't want to come back!
So... you only THINK they suffer!
I say... it was more of a test to those that had to wait on her!
You say... they didn't do that well... did they?
Well Lodi was not talking about coma's, so nice diversion.
Even if this person did not suffer, she cannot help others as she was doing until the aneurysm.


stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>When this happened, I lived across the street from this lady, She suffered! She had an aneurysm burst in her brain that left her paralyzed, in a wheelchair, with a surgical shunt installed in her head to divert the blood! The life she had before, no longer existed.
haven0t forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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Another of your excellent comments - to YAA - which proves again that bad comments can provoke fine answers. I serioiusly doubt if one American in a million recognizes that the rightwing Christian doctrines regarding a future Christian theocracy in the world (including US) is very similar to the most extreme of the Muslim dreams of worldwide take over and a theocratic caliphate (spelling).

In my view, such Christians are not loyal Americans, nor are they loyal to the planet, since their future includes a vicious destruction of much of the life and beauty of the planet.
They are the natural allies of the Koch brothers and the GOP opportunist politicians who are the loyal workers for the profiteering fossil fuel industries. I do not think such theocraticChristians shoulc be allowed to vote in the US, since they are not sincere when they pledge allegiance to the US. They want to overthrow the Constitutional, democratic, secular, civil libertarian government of the US by force and violence - led by their legions of supporters of an evil God. People should read the Chronicles of Narnia all the way through including The Last Battle, and they will see in children's fiction what the rightwing Christian agenda is - and even girls who wear lipstick might end up in hell according to that version!
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>It is not your country, it is all of ours. You do not tell me I must leave. Clearly you do not know how this country works. Ever heard of freedom? Evidently not. How anti American of you.
You blindly pledge yet do not even understand the core value of America, secularism.
I suspect if you really understood America was meant to be secular, you might just hate the idea of America.
Your bible is anti secularism. Your god does not promote secularism. Your bible promotes the murder of those who worship beings other than your god. This is anti secularism. This is why America is secular. America is the system that stops the murder of non believers. It's secular ideals have spread around the world. Not yet all over, as Muslims are slow to follow this ideals.
Thankfully our secularism keeps you religious fanatics in check. You cannot legally murder non believers anymore.

“Breaking the spell ”

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Sep 7, 2013
 

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haven0t forgotten wrote:
This was not written to me, but I want to take the opportunity to strongly agree with you in your condemnation of that commenter. And of almost every Republican and rightwing hypocrit, whether in media, political office or campaign operation, or individual citizen. I think that the haters are traitors, effectively, beginning with Rush Limbaugh and everyone who supports him, and including most of Fox, Ann Coulter and all the other - excuse me ladies - rightwing blonde bimbos on TV.
I think much of what was Bush's fault was even more the fault of those who promoted him as a candidate for President, when he was not qualified, and then of his high officials, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Pipes, Fieith, Abrams, Poindexter, and of the media neocons who so avidly promoted the war - Crystal, however it is spelled, and so many others, and not even excusing some of the socalled mainstream media.
I am now proud of many on MSNBC who are strongly anti-invasion of Syria - Chris Matthews is a bit hotheaded about it, but Chris Hayes is magnificent as usual in his careful thoughtfulness. I also am proud of Rachel, Larry O'Donnell (Last Word), Ezra Klein, Ed Schultz, and the other outspoken ones, and even the pretty ones!
I believe that the evidence is probably convincing. I doubt that the outcome of a US military strike would be better than to wait and try other options first. If Syria launches a second chemical weapon attack because of international inaction, then there would be a better case and a better chance to round up more allies. but I favor something more radical, such as asking Russia to develop a zone around its naval base, for Assad and his supporters, but with access to the sea for international shippint. Then the chemical weapons should be gathered into the Russian naval zone, and safely destroyed with UN supervision. Let Russia be the heroes who save the situation, that would be the one way to get them to help. Then partition Syria, and move people into land areas occupied by people with one religion and tribe, and whatever, and make it a federation. Half of the Middle Eastern nations need to be divided in such a way, since their boundaries make no sense./ Drawn up by some idiot Englishmen a century ago, as Jon Stewart and John Oliver demonstrated.
<quoted text>
Well I don't have cable news right now, so I do not know what MSNBC are saying at the moment, but I believe your testimony that they are not like Fox news in the days of Iraq, and are not pushing for war like fox was. Fox were fully supporting everything the Bush administration did in that war.

Unlike republicans, the democrats are not blindly supporting war just because their president is in power.

Sista showed here colors today. She is simply a blind partisan. I cannot take her criticisms seriously as she is so partisan, it only looks to be for partisan reasons now.
She simply defends Bush, and condemns Obama.
haven0t forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#112624
Sep 7, 2013
 
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So I am anti-American because I oppose the pledge? Well thanks for proving my point.
You show why it is harmful to those who just sit during this pledge. Because kids with your mentality will ostracize them for simply practicing their rights. The right to religious freedom. The right not to pledge or pray to a god. Note the JW's do not do this, as it is a sacrilege to them.
What I find Anti American is anti secularism. And you show that clearly.
They are the ones who do not mean it when they say the pledge! They do not have allegiance to many of the basic civil libertarian values, clearly stated in the Bill of Rights (they just like the 2nd) or the 13th, 14th, 15th, and a few other amendments. They are theocratic and not in favor of representative democracy. And they are for mobocracy when they control the mob. I admit I would prefer an aristocracy of the brilliant elite at times, but then I see wonderful brilliant, well-meaning Kerry, Hagel, and Obama thinking that a military strike could be done without unmanageable consequences, and I think that ordinary dumb Americans who are scared to death of know-not-what have a certain sort of wisdom that is more realistic, in the current situation. I am not fond of elites that think all will turn out well, if their rational well-meaning scenarios are begun in a game with nutcases on the other side. That applies to how Syria is handled and how Cruz is handled, about equally. I now privately think of him as Senator Batista, since his conflict of national loyalty - is through his father, his Cuban Batista type father - not the accident of birth in Canada. Have you seen or read some of the stuff papa Cruz puts out? Neo-Nazi.

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#112625
Sep 7, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Bushes fault he had the burden of having to deal with a NATO request to push back a rogue, chemical weapons slinging, nation invading thug like Saddam, and the resulting domino effects enacted by the extreme jihadist-psychopath bin_laden et al.
The main differences being-we weren't LOOKING to start war, like the current clown in office.
The classic Bush tactic he used while begging for the Iraq war. He simply used the names of Saddam and Bin Laden in the same sentence. Even thought their was no real ties between the two, despite the trumped up charges Bush peddled out.
But it was enough to trick the idiots who cannot understand the English language to well.
Studies show at the time of the invasion, most Americans thought Saddam was part of the 9/11 attacks.
Why? Because Bush used the 9/11 and Saddam in the same sentence often, even though he never once actually accused Saddam of being a perpetrator in 9/11. But of course he knew most Americans cannot focus on a sentence properly, so the deception was easy.

Now let me ask, is Obama using such propaganda tactics now to get war?
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

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#112626
Sep 7, 2013
 

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Azazel wrote:
<quoted text>
I grew up as a JW and we were not allowed to say the pledge at school because we were not allowed to pledge our allegiance to anyone except God. We could stand but we had to keep our hands down to our side and be quiet. If they played the national anthem then we were not allowed to stand for that and had to remain seated.
That makes it hard on children who then get picked on and asked why they hate their country or why they hate God. The adult JWs seldom had to go through this so it was real easy for the parents to tell their children how much it would displease God and how we might as well bow down before Satan.
Just another example of mind control over children to brainwash them at a young age. What a wasted youth.
Agreed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I understand through your comments, you are no longer with the JW? I must say that in my opinion, JW is one of the most indoctrinated Cults in existence today.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

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Sep 7, 2013
 

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Beautiful Saturday! Time to do some tree cutting for the winter ahead. Get a Saturday off from work and still hafta work.

Livin Life!!
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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Sep 7, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you don't have a body? You don't have hair? You don't have teeth? You don't have ears"? You don't have two arms, two legs, two hands, two thumbs, two eyes, two nostrils, a brain, a spine, nerves, and bones? I could go on and on.
Do you have the ability to replicate? Does your kind have a womb and bear offspring from their bodies? Does your kind give milk to feed the offspring? I could go on, but I am sure your mind is closed off to our similarities because it offends your senses.
Yes ,Sir Isaac Newton dealt with those issues ,way back when;

Isaac Newton
In a paper of a few pages, entitled A Short Scheme of the True Religion he discusses Godliness, Atheism, Idolatry and Humanity, or our duty to man. Relevant to Creation he wrote:

... Can it be by accident that all birds, beasts, and men have their right side and left side alike shaped,(except in their bowels,) and just two eyes, and no more, on either side of the face; and just two ears on either side of the head, and a nose with two holes; and either two fore- legs, or two wings, or two arms on the shoulders, and two legs on the hips, and no more? Whence arises this uniformity in all their outward shapes but from the counsel and contrivances of an Author? Whence is it that the eyes of all sorts of living creatures are transparent to the very bottom, and the only transparent members in the body, having on the outside a hard transparent skin, and within transparent humours, with a crystalline lens in the middle, and a pupil before the lens, all of them so finely shaped and fitted for vision, that no artist can mend them? Did blind chance know that there was light, and what was its refraction, and fit the eyes of all creatures, after the most curious manner, to make use of it? These, and suchlike considerations, always have, and ever will prevail with mankind, to believe that there is a Being who made all things, and has all things in his power, and who is therefore to be feared.

BTW You need to keep taking that Outsiders test till you get it right. Which will be never...

Try the God test...If you diligently seek me , you will find me.
You need only take it once ,,,,Given you accurately follow the instructions....

Since: Feb 09

Lexington, KY

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#112629
Sep 7, 2013
 
So what is the purpose of this topic? Just to argue with each other till the end of the world? Truly this is not how one should live life. What makes this such and interesting topic to bash each other. And what of man kind role in this?

There have been studies on religion much deeper then this pathetic little fight you guys are having over this. In the study, they research every religion ever known to man kind. Two things show up in all the religions, can you guess what it is?

1) They claim to be the right religion of all religion.
2) They point to one Deity.

Some where down the line, religion got reworked, remade, re-translated. It seems that the closest religion to be correct, is no other then Wicca. Given, lets break this down. Can you tell me the names of the King of Gods in Greek and in Egypt? By chance, could that be the same God with a different name? Make it more simple for Christians to understand this. Even the Bible says God is known for many names, does it not say that? What if by chance, Jehovah is also Zeus? Maybe Hercules was Jesus.

What if there is a god, but not the way most religion believe nor see it nor understand it. Wicca nickname is called Old Religion, but was made over to this age to better understood. Wicca believes that there is one Deity, and everything makes up that Deity. Gods and Goddess, demigods as well. Take one out and the Deity is for ever lost.

I do not bash Christians, but I do use them for example because they are well known but sadly to say, can not agree with each other as well. If you study the religions carefully with an open minded, you can tell that different angels from the Bible, are gods or goddess in religion. Who is Hades from the Bible, I bet one of the angles starts with a G.

But with people, being open minded is just too much to think over, and no one will ever really give in to hearing out what another person says because they want to be right, they want to believe that something they believed in all their life was true, and not one big lie they lived all their life.

Just something to think about.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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#112630
Sep 7, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I can not grasp what you said because you have said nothing that I could hear. I have read what you have WRITTEN ,which according to you , I should consider as " the pitiful writings of men"
Your explanation about the chicken should be featured on a comedy show.
You are alluding to an unwitnessed event that no one knows took place ,where it took place or when it took place.
other than , according to you "Chicken and Chicken Egg occurred at the exact same instant when the first person Name the foul he converted"
But I could be wrong ,, Were you there ? or did someone tell you about it? If so ,was it hundreds of years after this event took place?
You know where I am going with that ...I will go no further.
LOL
So you think there were flocks of wild Chickens roaming the mountains right behind those wild herds of Herefords and people just built coops and they came a running... Don't need to be there when there is ample Evidence of the domestication of wild animals and their selective breeding into the animals we take for granted today like cats and dogs... So I don't need to be there to form a rational, logical explanation as to the conversion of wild game by man to a Chicken... Before someone called it a chicken it would have not made much sense to have a chicken egg now would it... If what it was before we called it a chicken was a Grouse it would lay Grouse Eggs... See where I'm going with this....

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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Sep 7, 2013
 

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JCototheburn wrote:
So what is the purpose of this topic? Just to argue with each other till the end of the world? Truly this is not how one should live life. What makes this such and interesting topic to bash each other. And what of man kind role in this?
There have been studies on religion much deeper then this pathetic little fight you guys are having over this. In the study, they research every religion ever known to man kind. Two things show up in all the religions, can you guess what it is?
1) They claim to be the right religion of all religion.
2) They point to one Deity.
Some where down the line, religion got reworked, remade, re-translated. It seems that the closest religion to be correct, is no other then Wicca. Given, lets break this down. Can you tell me the names of the King of Gods in Greek and in Egypt? By chance, could that be the same God with a different name? Make it more simple for Christians to understand this. Even the Bible says God is known for many names, does it not say that? What if by chance, Jehovah is also Zeus? Maybe Hercules was Jesus.
What if there is a god, but not the way most religion believe nor see it nor understand it. Wicca nickname is called Old Religion, but was made over to this age to better understood. Wicca believes that there is one Deity, and everything makes up that Deity. Gods and Goddess, demigods as well. Take one out and the Deity is for ever lost.
I do not bash Christians, but I do use them for example because they are well known but sadly to say, can not agree with each other as well. If you study the religions carefully with an open minded, you can tell that different angels from the Bible, are gods or goddess in religion. Who is Hades from the Bible, I bet one of the angles starts with a G.
But with people, being open minded is just too much to think over, and no one will ever really give in to hearing out what another person says because they want to be right, they want to believe that something they believed in all their life was true, and not one big lie they lived all their life.
Just something to think about.
"So what is the purpose of this topic? Just to argue with each other till the end of the world?"

Yes.....

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes ,Sir Isaac Newton dealt with those issues ,way back when;
Isaac Newton
In a paper of a few pages, entitled A Short Scheme of the True Religion he discusses Godliness, Atheism, Idolatry and Humanity, or our duty to man. Relevant to Creation he wrote:
... Can it be by accident that all birds, beasts, and men have their right side and left side alike shaped,(except in their bowels,) and just two eyes, and no more, on either side of the face; and just two ears on either side of the head, and a nose with two holes; and either two fore- legs, or two wings, or two arms on the shoulders, and two legs on the hips, and no more? Whence arises this uniformity in all their outward shapes but from the counsel and contrivances of an Author? Whence is it that the eyes of all sorts of living creatures are transparent to the very bottom, and the only transparent members in the body, having on the outside a hard transparent skin, and within transparent humours, with a crystalline lens in the middle, and a pupil before the lens, all of them so finely shaped and fitted for vision, that no artist can mend them? Did blind chance know that there was light, and what was its refraction, and fit the eyes of all creatures, after the most curious manner, to make use of it? These, and suchlike considerations, always have, and ever will prevail with mankind, to believe that there is a Being who made all things, and has all things in his power, and who is therefore to be feared.
BTW You need to keep taking that Outsiders test till you get it right. Which will be never...
Try the God test...If you diligently seek me , you will find me.
You need only take it once ,,,,Given you accurately follow the instructions....
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/medi...

http://www.theamazingpics.com/wp-content/uplo...

Not to mention one arm longer than the other, one side of the face different from the other, One boob bigger then the other, one leg shorter than the other..... Besides the all the animals with 8 eyes, 1000 eyes, or both eyes on one side of the head...

Living organisms change to fit the environment they develop in and the environments shapes them ... You see something that has taken millions to billions of years to be what it is and think it made for that environment without understanding that it was the Environment that made the organism as it is in the first place....

Since: Feb 12

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#112633
Sep 7, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
This teaching is contradictory to other sermons he taught. That is why it was never considered doctrine.
Joseph Smith believed Adam is God. I see why Brigham Young taught this as doctrine also.

It may surprise some, but Brigham Young's Adam-God connection is in harmony with the teachings of Joseph Smith. It was Joseph Smith who declared that Adam was, in fact, the Ancient of Days. Doctrine and Covenants 27:11; 116:1; 138:38 all state that Adam is the Ancient of Days.

Joseph Smith even attempted to get the Bible to concur with this thought when he said, "Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of Days, he means the oldest man, our Father Adam..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 157). Smith was referring to Daniel 7:13 which reads, "I saw the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days and they brought him near before him."

Since: Feb 12

Rancho Cordova, CA

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Nothing ruins a good story like the other side.

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