Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 138212 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#112257 Sep 2, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, I totally agree that Mormons were persecuted by the mainstream religious community (everyone else, basically). I don't think they should have had their stuff taken away or put in jail for plural marriage or any of that nonsense.

But I do think you are willfully ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that "revelations" seem to be meaningless and powerless in the face of political/legal assault. And I think that stands as strong evidence that god is not real and "prophets" are full of crap.

You want your religion to be true. But you also want to be a rational person. So you rationalize. If it is embarrassing that the LDS was racist until the Civil Rights movement then they suddenly got a message from god to not be racist anymore...well that's just human error. If plural marriage was god's law until the law of the land said no...then another revelation says no more plural marriage...well that's just a necessity of building "zion". And when someone says an ear healed magically, well that's gods power.

Can you not even concede that we can describe all this stuff very easily with no appeals whatsoever to god or magic?

Racism was rampant in the LDS because it was rampant everywhere anyway. It changed its position when the social pressure became too strong to resist, just like every other institution.

Plural marriage was ended because it became a lethal liability to the further existence of the church itself. It was a rational move to make. You don't need to infer a divine decree.

The ear was never dangling by a shred of skin and it never healed suddenly in moments. People involved were simply mistaken and not remembering it correctly, which is entirely consistent with all psychological research on memory.

Why posit a supernatural element at all?

That's what I mean by "irrational".
Plural marriage has come and gone throughout the scriptures. For some it was required, for other time periods it was not. The same applies to the 1800s. When Joseph was moved to ask how it was ok, he was answered and also told that it was time to reinstate it.
Had he not thought things out on his own and asked, maybe it would not have been reinstated. I don't know. But it does appear that God requires us to think add ponder things on our own.
In the case of all worthy men holding the priesthood, this timing may have been to avoid more persecution. I'm not sure. It was clear that Joseph had black friends and followers. As I said, this was a major reason Missouri hated Mormons. They saw Joseph as an abolitionist and a threat to their way of life. But in Joseph's lifetime, blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood. Maybe this timing was to draw less attention to this group as everyone already hated them for so many other reasons.

I'm not going back to the friend of mine with the injured son. I spoke with him after posting last time about it and he said if people can't believe it, just leave it alone. He'd rather no ill be spoken of his family.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#112258 Sep 2, 2013
Warning against 'another Jesus': 2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

The true Jesus would be born of a virgin: Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." (Also see Matthew 1:23) Mormonism for example, believes that the Father (which in their belief is Adam who became a god) came down physically and mated with his 'spirit daughter' Mary and out came Jesus' body. Their Jesus resulted from INCEST and NOT from a virgin birth! They also believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#112259 Sep 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Plural marriage has come and gone throughout the scriptures. For some it was required, for other time periods it was not. The same applies to the 1800s. When Joseph was moved to ask how it was ok, he was answered and also told that it was time to reinstate it.
Had he not thought things out on his own and asked, maybe it would not have been reinstated. I don't know. But it does appear that God requires us to think add ponder things on our own.
In the case of all worthy men holding the priesthood, this timing may have been to avoid more persecution. I'm not sure. It was clear that Joseph had black friends and followers. As I said, this was a major reason Missouri hated Mormons. They saw Joseph as an abolitionist and a threat to their way of life. But in Joseph's lifetime, blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood. Maybe this timing was to draw less attention to this group as everyone already hated them for so many other reasons.
I'm not going back to the friend of mine with the injured son. I spoke with him after posting last time about it and he said if people can't believe it, just leave it alone. He'd rather no ill be spoken of his family.
The really crazy part is, the Mormon church was far behind in black relations in comparison to the country. So it just seems as if your religion is behind, not ahead of good morality.
So Missouri hated Mormons for being kind to black persons? Guess that lead the church to not be kind to black persons. Now when your church starts to sound as if a moral god is behind it, let me know. You just solidified the political appeasement claim.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#112260 Sep 3, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>I might add...
Many young pregnant/Mothers still go to school, get Jobs, and live!
The father has the blame too!
Statistically speaking, she is almost certainly NOT going to college. If I was to lay money on it, not knowing her too well personally, I'd say she will have more babies before turning 20 and be on public assistance.

First line of defense against this would have been a firm education from her parents about the nature of sex and a secondary one from school about the nature of sex. Second line would be to have people around her that are rational and adult and who don't believe that a penis has the magic power of shooting a soul into her vagina.

Then she would have a fighting chance.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#112261 Sep 3, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
1.6 Billion Muslims on the planet.. Pew and Gallop polls indicated that of that set there are Millions of Islamic Jihadists that want to kill me and my family... And you and your family... And a far larger number want to over throw the United States and install Saria Law as it's governing body... And there are a far larger number that while not wanting to do either still do support those that do....
So far over 4000 civilian me's are dead that have been killed by those that have publicly stated they want to kill You and Me....
So you go tell the father of the SEAL's in Benghazi that if a millions wanted him dead he would be, or the families of the 1000's in the towers, or the wives and children from the Embassies in Africa...
Yes Millions of Islamic Hoards what to kill me and my family, and you and your family.... Some of their leaders have plainly said so... and have made many attempts to kill you and your family and me and my family... They have just missed so far...
http://www.islamist-watch.org/blog/2011/09/pe...
I read about that poll and its results were kinda of surprising, often shocking. You make it sound like their primary goal is to kill Americans. If that's the case, they suck at it and millions of members doesn't seem to help. Like the bad guys on the A-Team they shoot a lot of automatic weapons and rarely hit anything.

I think its closer to the truth to say that a lot of people talk a big talk and some of them might walk the walk. But if all of them were committed to American death, as you seem to paint it, we would in fact already be dead.

Don't get me wrong. I consider Islam to be the worst offender when it comes to violent, misogynistic religions. They really are very similar to right wing Christianity with the caveat that Christians don't find as many Bible verses to support war and terror (at least not at the individual level).

I just get a bit concerned when we paint with a broad brush and speak in Bushisms.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#112262 Sep 3, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Or that 13 yo might get the support and help of her family and get a great education and become a Nobel winning scientist that finds a cure for cancer and her truly loved infant grows to be the President of the Us...
But yes if the 13 yo is brought under the dependency of the state and placed in a position where her family gives her life over to the state to give her just enough to get by but fails to allow her to be the best she can be then she might very well be another failed statistic...
For a man of science you don't seem to understand statistics very well. What percentage of Nobel Prize winning scientists are women who had kids at age 13?

Sure, it could happen. What do you think the odds are?

Also, it's really funny what everyone thinks is important. The other poster is all about the souls and you are all about the public draw.

Who's about the kids? Y'know, the actual 13yo girl?

My whole damn point is that 1) she should have been instructed better about sex and 2) abortion should be the first consideration when kids get pregnant. In her case she didn't understand the ramifications of sex and abortion was an absolute non conversation.

So bam. Baby at 13. Most likely another one by 17. Almost certainly public assistance from then on. Diminished pride and self-respect. Increased likelihood of the continuous of the cycle with her own kids.

We've seen it a million times. And what's the root? Right back to what we teach 'em.
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112263 Sep 3, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
And many more (especially these days) give absolutely NO thought to CONTRIBUTING to the raising of such THEMSELVES--withOUT givvernment intervention.
It's a huge problem these days.
Twenty hours a week of FREE community service ought to be required for those living off the givverment-for either NON employed party, to pay for what they Consume.
That'd wean a whole lot of that mindless, clueless NONsense.
I agree, but you used the word "Wean"...
I think "Weed" would have been better!
Of course... Obama cut the Weeding Process out to get votes!
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112264 Sep 3, 2013
Brewster wrote:
they should bring the prayer back to schools in the morning first thing be fore school starts, plus the ten commandments, and paddling's if we had the same stuff in school taht was in place 30 years ago then we wouldnt have teen pregnancy's on the rise , not have kids murdering their parents like we hear about and you never heard about kids goin to school and shooting the place up. so yea bring it to the schools, because we need help in america and obama is not it.
AMEN!
Along with the Pledge!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#112265 Sep 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have repeatedly said that belief in God requires faith and that there will never be proof. If you can't get past that, then we will just keep having the same conversation.
You ask me questions about why I believe certain things, or what the specifics are about a topic regarding my beliefs, and then you bellyache because I answer a faith related question with anything less than can fit in a Petrie dish. Really?
Yes, really.

Because you are not simply saying this is what you believe and it may or may not be true. You are stating that is IS true and not just for you...for me as well. And my children. You are making a truth claim about OUR world.

Yes, you need evidence for that. Faith is irrelevant to the topic. If you fall back on that then the conversation truly is over. You are irrational and we can't talk logically on that basis.

Nephilium made a great comment to your post. Jesus seems to have been able to do things in the past that would constitute good proof if we had evidence of them. Why can't god do that today? People see god in toast or the poo poo of insects on trees.

Why can't god just f*cking show up and say "Hey, I'm here."?

Do not ask me to take it on faith. Faith is what you have when you don't' have a good reason. Or when you are desperate.

So you take it on faith. OK. Just have the courage to say that maybe you're wrong.
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112266 Sep 3, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
1.6 Billion Muslims on the planet.. Pew and Gallop polls indicated that of that set there are Millions of Islamic Jihadists that want to kill me and my family... And you and your family... And a far larger number want to over throw the United States and install Saria Law as it's governing body... And there are a far larger number that while not wanting to do either still do support those that do....
So far over 4000 civilian me's are dead that have been killed by those that have publicly stated they want to kill You and Me....
So you go tell the father of the SEAL's in Benghazi that if a millions wanted him dead he would be, or the families of the 1000's in the towers, or the wives and children from the Embassies in Africa...
Yes Millions of Islamic Hoards what to kill me and my family, and you and your family.... Some of their leaders have plainly said so... and have made many attempts to kill you and your family and me and my family... They have just missed so far...
http://www.islamist-watch.org/blog/2011/09/pe...
Great post!
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112267 Sep 3, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Or that 13 yo might get the support and help of her family and get a great education and become a Nobel winning scientist that finds a cure for cancer and her truly loved infant grows to be the President of the Us...
But yes if the 13 yo is brought under the dependency of the state and placed in a position where her family gives her life over to the state to give her just enough to get by but fails to allow her to be the best she can be then she might very well be another failed statistic...
Another Great post!
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112268 Sep 3, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I don't believe any demons believe in Jesus, mostly because I am sure demons are non existent.
Not even the ones telling you there is no God!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#112269 Sep 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Plural marriage has come and gone throughout the scriptures. For some it was required, for other time periods it was not. The same applies to the 1800s. When Joseph was moved to ask how it was ok, he was answered and also told that it was time to reinstate it.
Had he not thought things out on his own and asked, maybe it would not have been reinstated. I don't know. But it does appear that God requires us to think add ponder things on our own.
In the case of all worthy men holding the priesthood, this timing may have been to avoid more persecution. I'm not sure. It was clear that Joseph had black friends and followers. As I said, this was a major reason Missouri hated Mormons. They saw Joseph as an abolitionist and a threat to their way of life. But in Joseph's lifetime, blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood. Maybe this timing was to draw less attention to this group as everyone already hated them for so many other reasons.
I'm not going back to the friend of mine with the injured son. I spoke with him after posting last time about it and he said if people can't believe it, just leave it alone. He'd rather no ill be spoken of his family.
No one is speaking ill of anyone's family. We all have flawed memories and all research shows this to be true.

Ears do not magically heal in moments. If god does that, but lets babies die horrible deaths then why on earth worship such a monster?

It's silly.

I think you are dodging these questions because you want to be seen as rational. I understand. But your answers are not sufficient to support your level of belief in magic.
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112270 Sep 3, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you think the Democrats Fox news puts on TV are really the representatives of Democrats? Juan is siding with the republicans on this issue. Juan is not saying what you hear on MSNBC. If you really want to know what a Democrat thinks, just turn on that channel. If I want to know what a republican thinks, I turn on fox news. But you are so brainwashed as to think Fox news is actually fair and balanced.
I would never make that claim of MSNBC, and they are not so hypocritical as to claim it as fox news does.
Did you read Juan's book or are you just telling me the Fox news version of it?
And why would you blame Obama for the downfall of the black community? You act as if Obama has been a dictator for the past fifty years.
And why would you think America's history does not affect you or the black community? History affects us all. It shapes our society.
I used to watch those other channels...
The POINT you do not get...
Wrong is Wrong!
Some Democrats know certain things are wrong, but go along party lines!
Are you denying Juan's reasoning behind the rise of Black violence?
Why? Just because he's on Fox???
That's Stupid!
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112271 Sep 3, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
Yes and Amen wrote:
Blacks do have it way better today, than yesterday, and
NONE of us alive today, had a damn thing to do with slavery!
The race-baiter industry ought to get over it!
No... too much money in it keeping things stirred up!
I agree somewhat with your sentiments here, but to an extent.
None alive that had a thing to do with slavery, but I'm sure some are still alive that have experienced segregation. Any race which had to endure what the Black's went through would naturally have some sort of emotional baggage, due to their ancestors living it. With that being said, KKK is alive today as much as it was back then. I think what defines a person is how they handle situations in a complex and emotionally fueled environment. That's where character, and morals are defined. In my opinion, We need to remember what has happened in the past and learn from it...or we are doomed to repeat it.
Good post!
We are doomed to repeat it!
We've got liberals denying everything including the Holocaust!
17'th century France comes to mind today!
Yes and Amen

Georgetown, KY

#112272 Sep 3, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, all religions have the same criteria, just have blind faith. This is why you fail to take the outsiders test. You have no test, you just have faith. So why you continue to give apologetics seems strange.
I'll bet you haven't taken that test with your religion...
Evilution, and your pastor Dawkins!

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112273 Sep 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just going to assume you don't really want a conversation. You just want to insult.
Can't stand a religious person that can hold their own? Gotta result to insult because you can't make a real point?
In the first place, I've found it futile to attempt a rational dialog with someone who believes myths and frauds are real, and in the second place it's even more difficult when being addressed by those who even get the myths wrong. Forgive me if I occasionally point out truths in ways that evince my exasperation with the inane.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#112275 Sep 3, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Well, I already said that I don't actually go around cussing at people. lol, that would be funny.

No, I don't do that. I use a degree of "foul" language consistent with my own style and the company I am with. Among good friends I talk freely and casually. If I'm with an elderly person I am very polite. At work I'm totally restrained in my conversation and I actually get uncomfortable when religion and politics are brought up. I think its inappropriate.

But in an online casual forum the kid gloves are off. If you are offended by what you read, then don't read.

I think the word game threads are dumb so I don't read them. But I don't pop in and say "You're being stupid".
It's funny you say putting on kid gloves, when I think people that use profanity all the time sound like teenagers trying to be cool in front of their friends. I always tell them to grow up and learn real words.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Nancy, KY

#112278 Sep 3, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
For a man of science you don't seem to understand statistics very well. What percentage of Nobel Prize winning scientists are women who had kids at age 13?
Sure, it could happen. What do you think the odds are?
Also, it's really funny what everyone thinks is important. The other poster is all about the souls and you are all about the public draw.
Who's about the kids? Y'know, the actual 13yo girl?
My whole damn point is that 1) she should have been instructed better about sex and 2) abortion should be the first consideration when kids get pregnant. In her case she didn't understand the ramifications of sex and abortion was an absolute non conversation.
So bam. Baby at 13. Most likely another one by 17. Almost certainly public assistance from then on. Diminished pride and self-respect. Increased likelihood of the continuous of the cycle with her own kids.
We've seen it a million times. And what's the root? Right back to what we teach 'em.
Let's see 54,559,615 to 1 is better odds than the lottery... And I actually know someone that hit the lotto.... As far as we know one of those 54,559,615 could have grown up to find a cure by cancer, another one could have grown up to solve the future worlds energy needs with a fusion power source, Another could have designed a communication system that spoke to the stars.... And yes maybe one of them may have grown up to be another Hitler or Stalin .... The point being is we have no idea of the unintended consequences of such actions on the future we end up with...

And yes Her Family should have taught her about sex and they should consider adoption as soon as the child is born...
Known Fact

Kissimmee, FL

#112279 Sep 3, 2013
THE IDENTIFYING MARK OF TRUE CHRISTIANITY. NO OTHER RELIGION HAS THIS;
Do its members truly love one another? Jesus said:“By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”(John 13:35) Such love reaches across racial, social, and national boundaries, drawing people together in genuine brotherhood. So strong is this love that it sets them apart as being truly different. When the nations go to war, who have enough love for their Christian brothers in other lands that they refuse to take up arms and kill them? That is what early Christians did.
No other religion does this...only Jehovah's Witnesses.

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