Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 141325 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111766 Aug 27, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
If we were protected from every bad thing that could ever happen, what would we be like? I would think we would take everything good for granted and just expect it all the time. I think you have to know the bad to appreciate the good.
I think the analogy works very well. I think it closely parallels.
that is nonsense. you just want to apologize for a nasty God that made evil, which is the type of God you obviously believe in if you believe in the Biblical God or in an allpowerful creator God of the universe we live in.

to appreciate one nice thing, one needs a little time and space in between similar events, and a variety of other nice things. we can appreciate blue and yellow and red and pink, without their being a color that is bad. we can appreciate classical music and jazz, without there being horrid noise that deafens us in contrast.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111768 Aug 27, 2013
this was to that silly sista person. Maybe it could be a female trying to be a macho type too. unfortunately too many females now try to act that way. if people are going to imitate the worst behavior of the other gender, I think I would prefer a gorgeous male willing to look like a sex object - preferably on a tv or movie screen or a magazine cover or something equally distant. though not Scott Brown, who is neither gorgeous nor sexy.
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Though no one referred to you, you simply HAD TO assert your "manhood," didn't you?
Please put it back in your pants so I can stop laughing.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111769 Aug 27, 2013
one appreciates learned comments about learned persons. too many folks now are social darwinists and oppose the science derived from Darwin's studies and further scientific inquiry.
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you need to understand historical figures in the context of their own times. Darwin, Churchill, Genghis Khan, or whoever it might be.
Darwin was part of the "landed gentry" of his time. An Englishman to the core and a "gentleman of natural philosophy". This was the time when British Empire was at its peak. There was definitely a strong sense of *progress* that the English associated with being white and, in particular, being English. It is absolutely true that most people, Darwin included, assumed that white people were superior to black people. It was a terrible time for social justice no doubt about it.
But what you are probably getting at is the claim that Darwin's theory lead to Social Darwinism and more racism. In fact, that stuff was already there. It is very true that guys like Herbert Spencer saw a progressive idea in Darwin's theory. They saw it as if nature by virtue of god had a plan and that the success of Britain was evidence that the British were at the apex of the plan. I think it was Spencer who coined the phrase "survival of the fittest" because he felt it was more to the point than "natural selection". And it is true that Darwin started using that phrase himself after a few revisions of The Origin of Species.
Darwin was not immune to the hubris of his time. Not at all.
But his theory wasn't about progress or racism. Read his book. Read a variety of books on the history of that time period and Darwin himself. He spend decades working on the idea, making sure it stood up to scientific scrutiny. He created a theory about the way life changes over time that was purely naturalistic in its language and mechanism. He states many times that evolution is not directional.
However, being a person of his own time, he DID often talk as if evolution had a direction. He did make comments and held beliefs that, by our modern sense, makes him sound like a complete racist. By comparison to just about any of us today he certain was a racist. But he was by far not the kind of slobber-mouthed racist you think of when that word is used. He was a gentleman, a total science nerd. He spent his days looking at barnacles and beetles, not telling jokes about black people.
Anyway, my broader point is that history must be viewed in context. That's something often hard to do. I am guilty of judging certain historical figures through a modern eye. Hell, it is not even fair to criticize Bible authors for being ignorant. They couldn't help it. They were working with the best they had. And they produced an epic set of stories, sometimes dreadful to read and sometimes quite lovely. When understood in context, that is.
Have some respect for history. That's all.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111770 Aug 27, 2013
some folks on this thread may not be acquainted with irony.
GodFearingAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I have read the bible. I have felt vibrations in my fingertips as your lord and redeemer, Jesus Christ, bombarded me with his holy Revelations. Seriously though... I'm about as worried about the bible being read to my kids as I am Harry Potter. It's all fiction, although the bible is a bit more violent than Harry Potter. Come to think of it... the bible is a book that promotes slavery, incest,rape and the killing of babies. I guess it's okay.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111771 Aug 27, 2013
mantle wrote:
<quoted text>
Darwin is not your role model , as you have stated.
Christ is my role model , as you well know.
John 10:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I seriously doubt that any person who reads the more kind and compassionate words of ethical advice attributed to Jesus in the Bible would recognize you as a practitioner of wwjd.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111772 Aug 27, 2013
The Real Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Reminds me of the tea party wanting to defund welfare, schools and medicare :)
they are for medicare for their old rightwingers - they even use slogans such as hands of my medicare at the same time as opposing government programs to benefit others. many probably do not know that medicare is a government program. they are selfish and stupid persons, which is a relatively kind generalization.

the Cruz wing of the GOP should be called the Batista wing. you should read about the things his father says. this bit about Canada is just a smokescreen to minimize the Cruz heritage of Batista Cuban despotism.
Human Species

Jackson, KY

#111773 Aug 27, 2013
The schools have to teach evolution. It is not a myth, it is a fact. I am not saying creation is not true; however, you can't take everything in the bible literally. They are great stories that teach different moral and ethical lessons among other things. The book was put together over 3,000 years ago by many different men led by Constatine on which gospels to include. Over the years, some of the rules have changed. I mean, men still are not instructed to beat their wives. And where did Cain's wife come from unless you suggest she was his sister. This world is billions and billions of years old and took millions of years of evolution in order for us to exist. We do not teach our children science than they will be ignorant. Again, not saying religion is ignorant, but at least be open minded enough to realize that facts are facts. Teach both and let them make up their minds for themselves.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#111774 Aug 27, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure. Just don't pretend religious guidelines are based on literal Biblical readings. Why do you need Noah's Ark to be a true story in order to have a guideline that we can also derive from secular ethics, such as "don't hurt people"?
trying to tell true believers about universal ethics - such as don't hurt living beings except in self-defense or defense of other innocent living beings - is not usually met with much success on topix, though in real life, with nice enough people who believe in some religion or other, it is possible to negotiate one's way to agreement on an ethic similar to that. Too often on topix, one finds people who are not nice enough, and who are argumentative with no intent to find common ground, when discussing religion and ethics - usually among the true believers, but occasionally with an unusually nasty socalled nonbeliever whose intellect can grasp rational thought, but whose feelings and motives are less compassionate. I do not approve of attitudes of either Quantumist, nor Skeptic, and that is one reason why it is so funny when ignorant accusations are made that socalled atheists on topix are the same person using different names.

we have found a couple of well-known occasions when true believers have used different names, though mostly in sequence, if they have been banned under their initial name for being too nasty. but I have seldom seen any atheists whom I suspect of using multiple names. Sometimes I wonder about Skeptic, but I think he is proud enough of his arrogant self to stick with the Skeptic name. He is not a Skeptic. He asserts that he knows that there is no God, and that he has no burden of proof. That is ridiculous. The person who asserts that he knows is the one with the burden of proof. That is why most sensible atheists on here are agnostic atheists, who do not assert that we know, but only that we disbelieve.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#111775 Aug 27, 2013
There is no god.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111776 Aug 27, 2013
mantle wrote:
<quoted text>
My goodness . The mentally diminished herd of Atheists is on the loose, Lodi, Chromiuman, Duquette, and Quantummist.
All posting within minutes of each other.
Coincidence...
Not likely.. All that typical nonsense can only emanate from one unfertile mind.
Lodi , I checked with the Police in your hometown.
Seems the only fight you have ever been in has been recorded in their records as an incident of Domestic violence.
Your 105 lbs. wife beat you senseless and tried to strangle you with your pantyhose.
Crash Boom Thud Aaaaaargh
So you are stalking at least one of us and think we are all one person? Q, has posted pics of himself and is a stanch conservative. I am an Obama supporting liberal, and yet you think we are one person? We all have very different writing styles. If we are all one person, we have a rare talent.
And attempting to air someones dirty laundry because they made you mad, is the exact opposite of turning the other cheek. Typical hypocrite Christian.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111777 Aug 27, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't avoid the issue-you twisted the subject of this thread, which was about ELECTIVE "choices". NOT Forced and NOT even "prayer".
Go ahead-go back and read it again. Then try and tell me it hasn't totally spewed out of context and been turned into a twisted delusional hype of warped hysteria.
ELECTIVE being a key word. Kind of like elective language, art, chorus, shop(s) etc etc---elective-as in personal choice. And THAT is what the original presentation stated. E-L-E-C-T-I-V-E.
Most rational theist realize already, there are Multitudes of elective courses covering ALL varying religions in public educational institutions across the U.S already-they're just usually in the higher academic realms, where levels of developed intelligence tends to be a little more prevalent.
But since you wish to discuss a different issue of "state mandated prayer" in schools--my personal opinion is I think the only people overly offended by a universally applicable, across the boards prayer such as The Our Father-would be extreme atheists, or pshyco-terrorists...or liberals maybe. According to the mood of the day on the last batch perhaps. I say that introspectively thinking of such in that, who wouldn't wish and hope for peace on earth, another day of precious life, forgiveness of sins, forgiveness of those who sin against us, the ability to avoid the trappings of, and to be "delivered from evil"... aside from evil? Only atheists, anarchists or psycho/terrorists.
I think there's a lot Worse issues to worry about in the world these days
I do understand however, the point you are trying to make is that of being "secularly and Politically correct".
Which is why I mentioned that for some-poliTics is their religion.
So, how a bout we keep partisan PoliTical personal preferences and any discussion of them out of secondary schools as well? There's some real deluded, clueless NUTCASES as far as that goes too.
Ya? Na? Reality is.....well, ah think you already realize that.
You did not address my main point. The class is favored over all other religions, thus is in direct defiance of the Constitution. Being an elective does not take it out of favoritism.

My post was a rebuttal to prayer in schools, not the main topic of this thread and you butted in. So get the facts straight.

Prayer in school is being protested by many secular Christians and other faiths, but of course you are in denial of this fact.
But even if atheists were the only ones offended, what does it matter? Is the constitution protecting the majority or the minority?

I personally opposed prayer in school when I was still a Christian. I was a secular Christian. Do you know what secularism is? It is the way of our founders. It is what our country is based upon in the realm of religion.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111778 Aug 27, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasn't raised in an environment that allowed for Much of that, and instead was raised more to GROW UP.
Not that I don't have my moments.
And yet you whine here daily. Now go on and whine more about slackerTics.
Hypocrite.

Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I am glad you did not add the claim of you not whining on this list.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111779 Aug 27, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't be any worse for being judged over delusions and lies of and as told by others!
If I am in a delusion about something, please be specific and point it out. If I am lying about something, be specific and point it out.
You guys just love to make broad stroke accusations with zero evidence to support the claims, don't you? I point to your post specifically for evidence of this claim.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111780 Aug 27, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
I was once read a small booklet, entitled "I'm not a Legalist, Am I"...YEARS and YEARS ago.
It was a real eye opener, in that it plainly showed how easily people fall victim to their own self perceived notions of shallow "self righteousness" in their very simplistic world views of mere "black and white" or "right/wrong" or "cut and dry" so to speak....and just how wrong they can actually be with that simplistic a mindset sometimes.
Good little booklette..impacted enough to still remember the name of it 30 years later.
There's plenty of good wisdom found in some of the words of the Bible as well, and not quite sure why you wish to "avoid" THAT aspect of it all sometimes. Bit of a self righteous "Legalistic" nature, that aloows no room for human imperfections and flaws perhaps?
Again, broad stoke accusations with no evidence. The post you responded to has nothing to do with what you just said.
And did I ever claim the bible had no wisdom in it? Nope. So I am not sure who you are talking to.

Did I claim to avoid the bible? Nope.

Do I think claiming, illness is due to demon infestation, is a dangerous thing to do? Yes.

Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So Jesus (your Christ) is your role model. So you follow the role model that treats ailments as a demon infestation?
I hope you use modern knowledge and history to determine your philosophy instead of blindly following some if the ignorant things Jesus said in the bible.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111781 Aug 27, 2013
mantle wrote:
<quoted text>
You already know my location .
Winter Garden, Florida

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111782 Aug 27, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> you over-rate him.
Although I don't display it, I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes doubt far outweighs benefit.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

#111783 Aug 27, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't do the study, just saw it in the paper one time.
Didn't say you personally done the study, just wanted to know where you acquired your information. Not doubting it was in some paper. Did that study specify what PRE-TEEN was? Q posted some data collected over a period of years, which I think was the rarest of pre-teen pregnancies. Take a lQQk-see when you get a chance. Interesting study there too. I posted another link that had data collected up in the infancy of 2010, still didn't show Ky being #1 in Teen pregnancy, and it stands to reason if they are highest in pre teen, same would apply to teen as well, but of course it all stems on the age block they consider in the study.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

#111784 Aug 27, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I read it in the paper about 2 years ago. It said Pulaski was the highest in the state. And since the US reports the highest in the world, that means Pulaski has the highest rate in the world.
Who knows, maybe it was a scare tactic, but every time my wife and I are in the maternity section, we see it first hand.
No doubt this is a problem Nation wide, but studies show a significant drop in all states except 3 in that study I posted, which was preliminary in 2010, but still enough evidence to show a drop. I can't find any data or information from 2010 thru '13. Would love to see some current stats.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

#111785 Aug 27, 2013
mantle wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you know where "they" live . Inside your computer , where you conveniently change names at your leisure.
Of course ,one can not tell , because your other locations are hidden.
I enjoy those exchanges you have with yourself by changing names and pretending you are someone else.
You make a sad case for evolution.
You have evolved into several personalities , each one worthy of their own private room at the mental Institution of their choice.
Hey Alice, keep living in your wonderland, I can't explain why some of us post within minutes apart of each other, as I do not know their schedule of events for the day, I can however attest to mine..I work alternating shifts, as I said before. Sometimes I have access to the web while @ work, and other times I don't.
Talking about evolution...You are thick skulled, quick to anger, and have loose jaws! laughing, Perhaps it's time you evolved bro.
The only other Moniker that insists several people here are all the same is Curious. Seems you both need some serious psychological counseling.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111786 Aug 27, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Whatever you want to believe...
I know what happened!
And this is a great example of what you "think" you "know". All evidence shows you were not shot in the head TWICE and yet you insist you know otherwise.
Your stories are textbook delusions and false perceptions. We should send you down to the universities for live examples of how the mind can play tricks upon a person.
Next you will be telling is a god spoke to you.

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