Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149869 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111635 Aug 25, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like a personal problem-of your own.
I do believe there was once a being that existed, known in the Bible, as Jesus, in basic human form.
Just like Solomon, David, and a lot of others through out history.
And that definition was:
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion.
No "assumption" to it...except on your part.
Is there something you do not like about The Golden Rule?
It's a fairly simple rule to try and live by.
I know you hate pointing out just what it is you believe in a religious sense. This is not prevent you from making hypocritical statements on a regular basis.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#111636 Aug 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a rabbinical interpretation of the commandment that parallels this, yet we have several examples in the Bible (and "Lord knows" how many in history and everyday life) in which it seems perfectly fine and just to call on God to smite one's enemies - forever and ever, Amen.
For myself, I use the phrase with different meanings. Naturally, I'm not "calling on The Lord" to do something any more than I would call on A Chair to drive a car or The House Cat to pick up groceries. Do you prefer that I say "Odin damn it" or "Zeus damned?" Just doesn't have the same ring or impact.
On the rare occasion that I might say something like "half of Apologist writings are God damned lies" I'm emphasizing the practice of dishonesty which your god already condemns. Other examples might be, "That God damned perverted child molester. Those God damned deceiving cult leaders. The God damned greedy bankers." I'm not petitioning your god to do something that he has supposedly already done by policy.
If I hit my thumb with a hammer and say "God dammit" I don't mean "condemn thee hammer and thee nail to thy lake of fire for eternity" - just as if I tell you to "go fly a kite" it doesn't mean I literally want you to "go fly a kite."
Bingo. I totally agree. When I say god dammit I am IN NO WAY referring to any deity at all. It is merely an expression of emotion in the moment, or it is an emphasis on just how obscene or terrible something is (god damned child rapist), or I'm just ribbing someone (;-)).

Words and phrases of that nature have a long history in our society. Their power comes from their scandalous nature. Even today when certain words can be heard on prime time TV it is still not acceptable to go around uttering them all the time. They still have power. I suspect they always will.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#111637 Aug 25, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well this brings up an interesting subject.
First, please remember Darwin was no god, nor do atheists follow Darwin as if all his ideas were correct. He had a few things correct and many things wrong. Just as anyone who is in the infancy of discovery. And on this subject, I am sure their is no black and white conclusion even on this day.
Now lets talk about this subject.
What Darwin may have not taken into consideration is the idea that physical perfection is an unattainable possibility for humans or any animal. So striving to weed out the physically weak is a futile effort. It also lacks the understanding that even disabled humans of all sorts can be a contribution to society in ways most never consider.
What is good for the society can be good for you in ways that are so indirect, we tend to forget and lack appreciation for them.
Darwin's idea here also lacks the new knowledge man has about genes passing on to the offspring. Not all bad traits are passed on. And I use the word "bad" loosely.
Darwin was a thinker. He brought up ideas. We as a society must sort through all sorts of ideas. No one has all perfect ideas, not even Jesus. Blindly following another persons ideas is dangerous.
As in the case of Hitler, he blindly followed the idea presented here without regard. He assumed the Aryan race was the more perfect. He assumed all sorts of things. He attempted to create a Utopia by any means necessary. Kind of like the idea of flooding the world of but one good family and expecting this to purify the world of bad. It just does not work this way.
And Darwin was the first to point out some of his own problems. His book included several problems he recognized with his hypothesis. But it was based on very careful observation of facts and he spend a few decades making sure those observations stood to reason.

No, we don't worship Darwin. But we do admire him. He was a giant of a thinker who helped bring our understanding of nature leaps and bounds ahead.

It is amazing to me when people are able to do that. Be it Darwin, Newton, or Einstein we have to treasure these great thinkers who help lift veils from our eyes over time.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111638 Aug 25, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
"that is normally not something we could do in person due to the social norms of respect.
You guys seem to forget this fact."
I am SO glad you (SOMEONE finally) pointed THOSE two VERY true statements out.
Thank you.
"Brilliant, Agree and Bingo!!"
And for the record, I keep in mind you likely do not talk to people in person as you do here.

I assume most of us are saying what we really think and not what we could say to people face to face. So when you get so pissy about us being open, it strikes me that you do not understand this forum.

The cliche, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, keeps coming to mind. If your sensibilities are so offended to hear open and frank views of religion, maybe you should get on a different forum.

This thread is about the debate of religion in schools. So religion and secularism is going to hotly debated. It is going to be done so whether religion is harmless or not. Now of course most of us atheists here feel religion is harmful. Of course the religious think their own religious views are harmless. We have different opinions. So when you state religion is harmless, keep in mind, that is just your opinion, and we seriously disagree. So if this is the base of your argument with us, maybe you need to show evidence your religious beliefs are actually harmless. As of yet you just avoid the issue and keep blindly repeating the mantra of it being harmless. Put some reasoning in behind the claim. Otherwise it is but a baseless claim and your whole argument fails from the start.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111639 Aug 25, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
And Darwin was the first to point out some of his own problems. His book included several problems he recognized with his hypothesis. But it was based on very careful observation of facts and he spend a few decades making sure those observations stood to reason.
No, we don't worship Darwin. But we do admire him. He was a giant of a thinker who helped bring our understanding of nature leaps and bounds ahead.
It is amazing to me when people are able to do that. Be it Darwin, Newton, or Einstein we have to treasure these great thinkers who help lift veils from our eyes over time.
Yes, thanks for pointing out how Darwin did not claim his ideas were absolute, unlike the Jesus. Darwin pleaded mankind continue the investigation and change the conclusions based upon any new evidence brought to light.(unlike the Jesus)
This is one reason I admire Darwin and do not worship Jesus.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111640 Aug 25, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo. I totally agree. When I say god dammit I am IN NO WAY referring to any deity at all. It is merely an expression of emotion in the moment, or it is an emphasis on just how obscene or terrible something is (god damned child rapist), or I'm just ribbing someone (;-)).
Words and phrases of that nature have a long history in our society. Their power comes from their scandalous nature. Even today when certain words can be heard on prime time TV it is still not acceptable to go around uttering them all the time. They still have power. I suspect they always will.
It always amazes me that Christians use the phrase. I would think if they really believed the story, they would never use it.
It tells me most have serious doubts about its validity.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111641 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do I take this outsiders test?
I can't help but think of the movie "the outsiders" when reading this.
I'm not refusing to do anything. I just don't know what you are asking of me.
That is a great question, I only wish it had an easy answer, but I will try.
The outsiders test is something that must be taken with every religious belief you have. With every religious philosophy you follow. And certainly with every idea that has no physical evidence.
There are several ways to take the test. One is to imagine yourself as a believer of an opposing religion, or opposing philosophical view. In other words, be critical to your own views. Scrutinize them with the same standards you use to oppose other beliefs.

This is why I oppose any "faith". The faith itself seems to be something that demands a person forgo doubting. If you forgo ability to doubt in an absolute manner, their is no way to critically scrutinize your own beliefs.

This is why I like science. Science embraces and demands constant scrutiny of all claims. It is a never ending process that never rests upon it laurels. Seems to me religion does nothing but rest upon its laurels.

I have specifically pointed out many instances where you refused to take the outsiders test. So the examples should have been noted there, but I will give an example now.
I could ask how you refuse to believe Mohammed was a prophet, for example. Do you use the same standards to scrutinize Mohammed and the claims of the Koran as you do the bible and Jesus?
Keep in mind, if you change the standards, you are throwing a giant monkey wrench in the thought experiment.
This is why I keep honing in on the double standards of the bible.

Feel free to ask for elaborations if I have been unclear.

Keep in mind, the outsiders test takes practice. It takes deep thought sometimes. The deeper the thought the more complete the experiment. The test is never really complete, if you follow the rules of science.

I find posting on topix helps me take my own outsiders test. And believe it or not, I do find I am wrong about some things and I change my views accordingly.
For example, Sista did make a good point about using the GD word and how it offends people for no good purposes. So out of respect, I will try to use it less often. If I use it in private or in the company of only non believers, I do not see it as a problem. But I have yet to hear an argument why using it openly is justified if it offends so many.

Really it is not something I have every thought deeply about, and now I have thought about it a bit more and came to a different perspective and conclusion about it. But with new information, that opinion could change. I live by few absolutes.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111642 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Anonymity doesn't make profanity less offensive. Sorry. Neither does the Internet.
Respect should exist here too.
Yes, and I can agree the GD word serves no purpose here that is useful in the debate, and thus is pointless to be added. Many of the insulting things you have claimed of me are different though. They are not pointless words. They are really just opposing views. Opposing views often seem harsh. I at least attempt to make a effort to make a point with all my words. Many times I delete the last sentence of a post. If I proofread the post, I find that last sentence gets a bit unnecessary and often is overboard offensive.
I often do not proofread my posts, so I am not claiming some of my sentences are not unnecessarily offensive.
I am sure we could all use some more control and practice deleting the last sentence that is over the top.

Feel free at anytime to question the point of making an offensive statement.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111643 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Anonymity doesn't make profanity less offensive. Sorry. Neither does the Internet.
Respect should exist here too.
On the subject of respect, yes it should not be excluded here, but as I pointed out earlier, the nature of debate can get offensive. I see a difference in someone getting offended and respect. Some people get to easily offended. Even if I am trying to respectfully disagree, some people are going to be offended. So in a forum debate such as this, if they cannot handle disagreement, they need not be here or just learn to deal with being offended.

My philosophy in life sees no reality of a person living in an "offense free zone". I feel some people need to be offended. I think some offenses can be productive. An "offense free zone" can be to conducive for brainwashing.

I am sure when I state that your god is a murderer, it is offensive. But I feel it is productive for you to understand what the claims of your god in the bible are, is just cold blooded murder. It is offensive for me to hear of people worshiping such a murderer.

Take the outsiders test and check your god for morals.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111644 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad we don't live in OT times for this reason, but as I said before, if you look at this on an eternal scale like God would, the spirit of that person is eternal. Think of it this way: if you take your kids to Chuck E Cheese and one acts like an idiot, you will more than likely jerk him out of the ball put and sit his tail in the booth while the others continue to play, and the mean one can't bother the others any more. The parent knows that they will all leave CEC at some point and go on to have other experiences.
What I do not do is kill my child with the idea his life is eternal. That would be immoral for any being to do, period.

I guess we just have different standards of morality. I think murder is bad, and you see it as good in this case.
Is this act an eye for an eye, or turning the other cheek? The standards seem to come in three's here. As in the case of the flood, the babies were murdering no one. I suppose that old god had not yet realized he should ease up and just go by the eye for an eye rule. Oh well, he is only human. Live and learn.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111645 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad we don't live in OT times for this reason, but as I said before, if you look at this on an eternal scale like God would, the spirit of that person is eternal. Think of it this way: if you take your kids to Chuck E Cheese and one acts like an idiot, you will more than likely jerk him out of the ball put and sit his tail in the booth while the others continue to play, and the mean one can't bother the others any more. The parent knows that they will all leave CEC at some point and go on to have other experiences.
Using the reasoning of an eternal scale, any murder can be justified. Just as in the case with 9/11.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111646 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I am one that does not think you are condemned. Remember? So this does not apply to me.
If there is a creator, why would you think He would not want us to respect Him? Do you think He would be cool making us all and then shyly wave at us as we run away from Him to the strip club while saying the old man is stupid and irrelevant?
Profanity is offensive to me and I'm not alone. Again, I invite you to take a test. Use some profanity to the next patrolman that pulls you over. See who he agrees with. Me or you.
Demanding worship is far different that hoping for respect.
If you kill everyone on the planet, I have zero respect for you. I will condemn you.
If I believe the god of the bible is real, then I would really think he murdered many millions of innocent persons in the flood.
I do not see creating a human as a rational for destroying, torturing, or killing said human.
Sounds like an arrogant parent that tells his child, "I brought you into the world, I can take you out". We put people who act out this in prison for being immoral and a danger to a peaceful society.

A good teacher uses the example of him, or herself to convey the message. The flood story teaches one to murder.

I am glad you do not believe I am condemned for the simple act of disbelief. I really think the bible differs from your opinion as do most Christians.

I am really sad you think murdering millions of innocent children was moral.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111647 Aug 25, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I am one that does not think you are condemned. Remember? So this does not apply to me.
If there is a creator, why would you think He would not want us to respect Him? Do you think He would be cool making us all and then shyly wave at us as we run away from Him to the strip club while saying the old man is stupid and irrelevant?
Profanity is offensive to me and I'm not alone. Again, I invite you to take a test. Use some profanity to the next patrolman that pulls you over. See who he agrees with. Me or you.
BTW, poor example here of the cop. If I have been pulled over, then I am likely to be guilty of something. So you are changing the paradigm unfairly.
In the cases here, some theists are being over the top offensive to us, so again, the cop analogy is off.
But I have already acknowledged much language that is offensive is not the way one should go.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111648 Aug 25, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Not Political agenda...
A Righteous Agenda!
IF a Republican is Wrong... we don't vote for him!
But it does seem that the left... does worse than ANY Right!
So... your point is???
Hater of Natural sciences???
That's a laugh, as you deny the laws behind nature to push your agenda!
Thanks again for showing your religious bias in right wing politics. As if the republicans are so righteous. Give me a break.
You continue to prove my point with each post you make on this.
Religion is born of politics.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111649 Aug 25, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>No entry, or exit!
But they did leave evidence of passing through...
the lines on my jacket... straight down my back!
And this means it went into and through your head?
You are no Columbo, are you?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111650 Aug 25, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Calling you tard... is just trying to get you to understand just how stupid you sound, and HOPING you'll want to stop it!
But... that is up to you too!
Not wanting you to go to hell, posting on here for nearly 3 years...
listening to your tripe... believe me... it has to be love!
I listen to your tripe, and I do not love you one bit. But thanks for telling us why you conclude it must be love. That is very scientific of you.
So do you teach your kids with this same sort of "love"? Do you call them "tard" when they do stupid things over and over? I just wish to understand if you have double standards.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111651 Aug 25, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Hey... Guess what?
It's in the BIBLE! He told them exactly what would happen...
INCLUDING the rebirth of the Nation of Israel!
GO Figure!
Read it... Learn!
So Jesus knew the holocaust was coming and he did absolutely nothing to stop it? He supposedly had great power to do something, yet he stood by and let so many millions suffer unimaginably for so many years on end.
Sorry, but I just have consistent standards. I do not worship dishonorable people like this. In fact, I would judge this as a seriously dishonorable act.

Is this what Jews believe?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111652 Aug 25, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Obama is evil... you know it too!
You just don't like knowing you backed an Anti-Christ!
Religion is born from politics. Thanks for the evidence.
Aakta

Winchester, KY

#111653 Aug 25, 2013
Just cuz u murder tens of millions of innocent children doesn't mean you're bad or immoral or evil. Killing kids on such a mass scale makes u mysterious. God works in mysterious ways. Everybody knows that.

And if u think its far fetched that a man could build a boat big enough to hold 2 of every animal with there being millions of different animal species, plus months worth of food and fresh water for each of them, plus outfit that boat with climate control so that the arctic animals and desert animals and rain forest animals could all survive, if u think that sounds absolutely ridiculous then u don't know the kind of boat-building skills that illiterate desert dwellers had 5,000 years ago. Looks to me like you're the stupid one!

And also, its been proven that a human could easily survive living inside the stomach of a fish for 3 days. A man could comfortably fit inside of a whale shark. He wouldn't drown, could breathe just fine, and would be unaffected by the shark's stomach acid. That's just science.
SistaNoneYa

Brodhead, KY

#111654 Aug 25, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I know you hate pointing out just what it is you believe in a religious sense. This is not prevent you from making hypocritical statements on a regular basis.
Oh well. I'm just as "entitled" to them as anyone else.

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