Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,463

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

#111168 Aug 21, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Two rounds passed through your head? What?
Ok, so you do not know why these things happen. Well we atheists feel if an all powerful, loving god existed, these unfair things should not happen, or at least be lowered. But the cold hard fact is, these things happen as if no loving god cares or even exists. This is the point.
People claim prayer can heal, yet entire populations are wiped out by disease while they pray. It is as if no god is listening to these prayers.
I saw that comment too Mike, and I shudder to think what he means by it.
Known Fact

Kissimmee, FL

#111169 Aug 21, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
"Blame card"? What are you talking about?
If you're going to comment on the Problem of Evil as if you know about it, then you need to *know about it*. This is a deeply problematic religious and philosophical issue that goes all the way back to the Greeks, and most likely earlier.
As I told the other guy, free will does not get you out of this problem. I didn't say two adults made a choice to be bad, I said three little girls were raped and killed. Are you saying that the killer had free will to kill, and the girls had free will to be killed?
God is all powerful, correct? That's the idea of god supported by virtually all of Christian theology. God can literally do anything, with the exception of breaking basic logical truth. He can't make 2+4=5, for example.
But he can damn sure stop a child killer.
And yet what we find is kids are killed, brutally, all the time.
This is a serious problem for Christianity and other religions that posit an all powerful, all loving god. And lots of religious posters on here like to dodge it every single time it comes up. They want to immediately shift the argument to something else.
Do you understand?
Why does God permit suffering?
Who really is to blame for it?
Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do?(Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?
Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38; see also pages 363, 364, under the heading “Satan the Devil.”
How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver.(Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111170 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Are you always that ignorant, or are you just being a Tard... Again?
I'll bet the latter!
Obama's agenda, or satan's agenda... one in the same!
Again you demonstrate how the team religion ties with the team politic. Pretty textbook psychology. But of course you think psychology is the work of the devil. Just what one would expect from the hater of natural sciences.

You fight science and push your political agenda with your god and I will fight your god.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111171 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>We hope that some day, your "Do not know" turns into "I do know", as ours has!
Some people are more intellectually honest than others.

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#111172 Aug 21, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Two rounds passed through your head? What?
LOL!
Here's one of the earliest versions of this fairy tale.
You'll notice he says nothing of the bullets "passing through his head" at this time.

Post #69991 02/10/12
Yaa says:

"Out in the desert, there are many dead poles with insolators still on them!
I stepped dead under one, and shot it, it shattered (ceramic) I jumped
bacwards over a cactus... OUCH!
Next time I was out, I found a pole with glass insollators on it...
I looked for cactus, none around!
Dead under it, I shot! The insolator didn't break, and I felt a tug on
my jacket. I looked again for cactus because it felt just like one snagging
my jacket... No cactus!
I shot again... same thing! I gave up, a .22 was big enough for the job!
I went home, and when I took my jacket off, there were two lead lines
straight down my back 1/4" appart, and starting at mid, to lower shoulder
blade! I thought... "Wow, that could have been very bad!" Never gave it
another thought until 04, when I got re-aquainted with the Lord! He told
me that He'd been protecting me for a long time, to look back at things
in my life, and that story is only One of many times the Lord saved my bacon!"

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111173 Aug 21, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that comment too Mike, and I shudder to think what he means by it.
YaA claims the rounds made no exit wound. I guess they must still be lodged in his brain.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111174 Aug 21, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does God permit suffering?
Who really is to blame for it?
Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do?(Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?
Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38; see also pages 363, 364, under the heading “Satan the Devil.”
How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver.(Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.
The issue at hand was not a claim of god causing suffering, but more of why he does nothing to help alleviate suffering.
The question was not about why humans die, but why god does nothing to alleviate suffering. Dying is sometimes the end of suffering. Do you know what "suffering" means, or are you just diverting?
The example given of children being raped and killed, was passed off by YaA by way of the excuse that the death resulted in a quick trip to paradise. Not that this addresses the suffering of the rape in any way.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111175 Aug 21, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does God permit suffering?
Who really is to blame for it?
Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do?(Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?
Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38; see also pages 363, 364, under the heading “Satan the Devil.”
How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver.(Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.
It is claimed repeatedly in the bible that suffering will be alleviated by doing gods will and prayer. Yet the evidence shows this is not really the case at all. Good, god fearing people that pray suffer massively just as any unbeliever would.

Your statement puts the blame of suffering on the bad people. So what does that have to do with the good people who pray for help from a god? It only looks as if pray gets you no help from this god.

Mother Teresa even lost faith due to seeing the constant refusal of a god lending a helping hand. So it is not just us atheists who question the claims of the bible, even the leaders of religion find problems with the claims.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111176 Aug 21, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU DID NOT DIRECT THIS TO ME BUT I FELT OBLIGATED TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER!
Why does God permit suffering?
Who really is to blame for it?
Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do?(Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?
Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38;
How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver.(Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.
Blaming an ancestors sin for our suffering is not even close to what I would expect from a fair person, much less some perfect god.
Our own courts do not punish the child for sins of the father, so why does your god have such unreasonable judgements? It only makes your god look to be made up by barbaric men.
BTW, much disease does not cause death, it just causes massive suffering for ones entire life. So acting as if disease is here to cause death is unreasonable. Also, there is the simple fact we humans would die even if no disease was on earth. Our body parts just do not hold up forever. They were not designed to hold up. We replicate, thus we need not live forever for our genes to carry on. Now the massive suffering is not needed.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111177 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>bout the Lotto...
Do you think He loves me more than you?
and as the lotto win would be more of a curse, than a blessing...
He gave us the cure for cancer... read the Bible!
So you have the cure for cancer yet will not reveal this super secret? You forget, we atheist cannot understand the bible due to lack of holy ghosts.

Is it moral to be able to help someone with a snap of the fingers but yet refuse to snap ones fingers?

Is it moral to watch a baby drown and not attempt to even throw a life buoy you have at your side?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111178 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>With the destruction of our constitution by the left...
I say clean house, send all those hypocrites back home!
Let Joe Public run the country for a term, and see what good...
good people do!
The devil made me do it.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111179 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>With the destruction of our constitution by the left...
I say clean house, send all those hypocrites back home!
Let Joe Public run the country for a term, and see what good...
good people do!
I am Joe public.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111180 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>If you knew God, you'd know how silly you are... and safe
Everyone is with a True Christian!
In case you missed Christ's teachings...
(1) Love God
(2) Love your neighbor
(3) Love your enemies
Not much room for your agenda there!
If love means calling the people you love "tard" then your love is meaningless.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111181 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Yes they are, but NOT in the context you stated!
NONE of this was directed, OR condoned by God!
Jesus knew Peter would deny Him...
Just as He knew... you would too!
Hope that changes for you!
And thus the Jesus would have known Hitler would order six million Jews to be murdered, yet he did not throw a life buoy.
He supposedly has the power to help, yet does nothing. He sits and lets the tortures happen.

But maybe you feel the Jews would have been spared if they only believed in the Jesus?

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#111182 Aug 21, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU DID NOT DIRECT THIS TO ME BUT I FELT OBLIGATED TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER!
Why does God permit suffering?
Who really is to blame for it?
Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do?(Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?
Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38;
How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver.(Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.
Horse Puckey Doo Doo..... Devoid of logic ....

If Adam and Eve could have lived forever why would they need to eat, drink, sleep to live? Adam eats from the tree of knowledge so from that point forward god allows anyone to beat a babies head against a rock if they want too... He's all powerful yet has angels and satan turn against him and he has to sit back and let them have their way until sometime in the future were he has to have some big earth shattering battle to destroy satan and him minions instead of a wave of the hand or blink of the eye to make them go pooof...

You story is for children that think the easter bunny hides eggs in the grass, The tooth fairy leave a coin under the pillow, santa shrinks and comes down the chimney and flying unicorns fly about pooping glitter, and there are pots of gold at the end of rainbows.... Not for grown adults with functioning minds....

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111183 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>The Penis was made before the medical devices...
"Were you trying to say that if I watch porn, lie or steal, That I am evil or vile?"
Yes!
None Good, no NOT one!
If you support porn, you support the evil that causes rapes, and cheating!
You cannot swim in the sewer, and smell like a rose!
Well technically, rape and cheating came long before porn. Just ask King David.

From what I understand, countries that have legal prostitution have lower percentages of rape. Both may be of an evil, so to speak, but the lesser evil might just be overall better for a civil society.
Utopia cannot exist.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111184 Aug 21, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Horse Puckey Doo Doo..... Devoid of logic ....
If Adam and Eve could have lived forever why would they need to eat, drink, sleep to live? Adam eats from the tree of knowledge so from that point forward god allows anyone to beat a babies head against a rock if they want too... He's all powerful yet has angels and satan turn against him and he has to sit back and let them have their way until sometime in the future were he has to have some big earth shattering battle to destroy satan and him minions instead of a wave of the hand or blink of the eye to make them go pooof...
You story is for children that think the easter bunny hides eggs in the grass, The tooth fairy leave a coin under the pillow, santa shrinks and comes down the chimney and flying unicorns fly about pooping glitter, and there are pots of gold at the end of rainbows.... Not for grown adults with functioning minds....
The moral of the story is, knowledge is not good to seek. Do not lust for knowledge. Stay ignorant and just blindly believe.

Believe it or not, I am not saying this sarcastically. I am quite sure this is what was meant by this, seeking of knowledge, on this forbidden metaphorical tree.

In other words, do not look to natural science for answers, just keep the blind faith that god did it, as the myth claims.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#111185 Aug 21, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>We hope that some day, your "Do not know" turns into "I do know", as ours has!
Hows that Hope and Change working out for you...

I would say "I Think I Know" when a few pieces of Verifiable, Reproducible, Testable Evidence is presented... It would take a Lot of Verifiable, Reproducible, Testable Evidence to move me to the "I Know" position... Even if I became delusional and saw a flying unicorn going overhead while colorful glitter rained down on my head it would require testing of the glitter, verification of the mythical beast by assorted methodologies and observation of it's repeated appearance by non biased observers....

Being Intellectually Honest with oneself is a hallmark of mental maturity...

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#111186 Aug 21, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, that was just opinion, and my freedom of personal reading preferences.
Do you believe in freedom of peoples personal choices in choosing what to read or what not to read, or don't you?
Sure, just pointing out the hypocrisy, which you just diverted from.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#111187 Aug 21, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>YaA claims the rounds made no exit wound. I guess they must still be lodged in his brain.
That would explain a lot.......

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