Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109601
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm assuming you are a Christian of some stripe or another. You might find it shocking to learn that when you take a "religious studies" course in college it is not Sunday School. You learn comparative religion and, if you have a good instructor, you might dive into some psychology of religion.
If you come out of such a class more religions than when you went in your brain is broken.
Bible study - genuine Bible study - produces a lot of atheists. Have you actually read that book? I posted a few pages back the passages where god tortures and kills a baby because David pissed him off by being a dickhead.
That's your deity.
Northern Continental native American first, christened RC as a newborn, raised in a "biologically imperialistic" Newtonian apple orchard environment that included daily secular academics and Work M-F, And of more spiritual teachings Sat AND Sunday....when upon reaching the years of young adulthood, granted the freedom to stand of my own two feet (sans the plague of givvermint entitleMentalcase plantation shackles and chains socio-Illogical disorders).
Never had a problem sitting amongst those of the more organized churchly persuasions-- although I did find the more morose doctrines of some (or anything as Extreme along those lines for that matter) to be seemingly disturbed, and rather unbalanced-as I prefer enlightenment, to the darkness of ignorance ANY day.

And so I can assure you-- whatever deity it is YOU are merely assuming to be another's and are speaking of-is NOT my deity.

I am Not into that self exaulting, dark age, pitch fork and torch carrying witch hunting, hatred type stuff at all, and would thank you kindly, if you are, to keep your mired in darkness eye for an eye hater junk to yourself, and I will keep my scalp the top of your head off to show the empty cavity within, because I find THAT nonsense to be some really Mentally UNhealthy, and REALLLY juvenile type stuff.

:-)

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#109602
Aug 4, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists believe there is no God
Life and intelligence were created and,if not by a living intelligent being" GOD" then by whom or what?
If not by God,then what or who created the necessary ingredients to bring life into existence?
Which would lead us to conclude that Non living and Nonintelligent Nothing created Something out of Nothing and through some unknown process was able to create life and intelligence.
Yet, mankind,having life and intelligence is unable to explain or duplicate that which the nonliving and nonintelligent was able to accomplish.
To me,that stretches credulity into the realm of insanity.
But then,we find that those intelligent proponents of atheism,such as, Darwin, Thomas Huxley, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Sigmund Freud were found to be inflicted with severe mental problems....
It may be that;
" you don't know anyone who says "that we owe our life and intelligence to some nonexisting ,nonliving nonintelligent power which was able to somehow,create living intelligent beings."
They may not say it,but it is difficult to come to any other conclusion.
You can spin it,cut n dice it any way you want...
My uncle had a saying"No matter how expensive the perfume with which you spray a skunk,it is still a skunk....
Just because it is difficult for you to conclude does not mean it is a false conclusion. Most of those who study nature as a profession ( scientists)conclude life needs no intelligent creator. Many if not most of these people were once god believing persons. But after much study they most often conclude it is highly plausible no creator god is needed.
So when a religious fundamentalist rants on and on about all these highly educated and professional people being stupid or insane, it only makes you seem to be all the more brainwashed.

It is not reasonable to expect man to be able to duplicate in a lab what took ten billions years of natural forces to create.
But yet man has produced the building blocks of life in a lab that leads one reasonably assume nature could have produced life naturally over the span of a billion years of earth existing.

Side note, Darwin never promoted atheism.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#109603
Aug 4, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists believe there is no God
Life and intelligence were created and,if not by a living intelligent being" GOD" then by whom or what?
If not by God,then what or who created the necessary ingredients to bring life into existence?
Which would lead us to conclude that Non living and Nonintelligent Nothing created Something out of Nothing and through some unknown process was able to create life and intelligence.
Yet, mankind,having life and intelligence is unable to explain or duplicate that which the nonliving and nonintelligent was able to accomplish.
To me,that stretches credulity into the realm of insanity.
But then,we find that those intelligent proponents of atheism,such as, Darwin, Thomas Huxley, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Sigmund Freud were found to be inflicted with severe mental problems....
It may be that;
" you don't know anyone who says "that we owe our life and intelligence to some nonexisting ,nonliving nonintelligent power which was able to somehow,create living intelligent beings."
They may not say it,but it is difficult to come to any other conclusion.
You can spin it,cut n dice it any way you want...
My uncle had a saying"No matter how expensive the perfume with which you spray a skunk,it is still a skunk....
I think it is likely, religion was invented in part due to man wanting answers to the universe in a time of little to no science. You show here why someone would assume a creator must exist if he has no idea how it could have come otherwise. Assumptions and imaginations lead to invention. The case here is the invention of god.

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#109604
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Jutdontell wrote:
<quoted text>
...the many, many schools of (much) higher learning (with many curriculums already in place offering such!!!
And please do NOT TWIST and DISTORT in such VILE libuhrulTicedness the REAL First Amendment which STATES--
VERBATIM
First Amendment - Religion and Expression
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment *OF* religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there*OF* or abridging the freedom *of* speech, or *of* the press; or the right *of* the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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OF being the key prepositional word (NOT "from") as in-
4.
Used to indicate material, component parts, substance, or contents!
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As in freedom FROM religious persecutioners!!
Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the Common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
OR some shall have to call you a "LIAR", for doing so!!
I found nothing in your argument that shows favoring a religion in a public government run school is constitutional.

There are many different ways in which to word the same concept.

So tell me just what you think this part of the constitution means?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"?

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#109606
Aug 4, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice the major DIFFERENCE in grammar usage of description..."Prose, Poetry"? Ahh, much more suitably defined! Curses to ignorance, give SOME of us actual enlightenment!
RELST 2724 - Intro to Hebrew Bible
The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is a repository of ancient Israelite religious, political, social, historical and literary traditions. For the modern reader these ancient traditions are often obscured by a focus on the text as revelation. The purpose of this course is to introduce students to the biblical world by reading the Hebrew Bible in translation, on its own terms, as a body of literature that evolved in an ancient Near Eastern context. The Bible itself will be the primary text for the course, but students will also be exposed to the rich and diverse textual traditions of the ancient Near East, including Mesopotamia, Egypt, Moab and Ugarit. In addition, this course will explore the impact of early biblical interpretation on shaping the monotheistic traditions inherited in the West. As participants in a secular course on the Bible, students will be challenged to question certain cultural assumptions about the composition and authorship of the Bible, and will be expected to differentiate between a text's content and its presumed meaning.
RELST 3713 - Mizrahi Literature: Poetry and Prose of Jews of the Muslim World in the 20th Century (also JWST/NES 3713)
In this course we will read a selection of works of Jews of the Muslim world in the 20th century, and follow the diversity of languages, genres and geography, and connect those to questions of community and immigration, Colonialism and nationalism, religion and secularization, Canon and its margins, tradition and identity. We will start with the tradition of the Piyut (Liturgical poetry) in Rabbinical Hebrew and Judeo-Arabic; We'll continue with the writing in Judeo-Spanish (Ladino), and discuss Sepharadic identity; We will then move to the writing in Colonial languages (mainly French and English); Then we'll follow the writing of Jews in literary Arabic, mainly in Iraq and Israel, and discuss Jewish-Arab identity; In the Israeli context we will move to discuss writing in Israeli Hebrew, and discuss Mizrahi identity. All readings will be in English.
So is this the curriculum of the Kentucky bible classes? I highly doubt it. Cite your sources please?\

And where is the part about a holy ghost helping you interpret the meanings?

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#109608
Aug 4, 2013
 
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, if you were on the Mormon list and you never asked to be taken off then you are still counted as a member. That sort of thing is not going to affect your life at all (we are talking about a fantasy organization, after all) but it irritates me that their numbers are artificially swollen.
I remember someone telling me if I did not attend church for seven years, I would be excommunicated. I wonder first, how would they know, and second, do they really work to push people out like this or is it just a veiled threat.

They did send some missionaries to my house a few years back. They knew I was a member and asked if I would come to their church meetings. I did not declare my atheism or tell them I would never come, but I think they understood I was no longer into the whole bit. They have not been back.

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#109609
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>All I have to say to them is...
Throw a dead dog in the backyard, wait 10,000 years for a lil dust to cover it, and see IF they match any fossils to date!
Only the lowest morons would believe that's how it happened!
Thanks for showing us you have no idea of the conducive conditions for fossilization to occur.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#109610
Aug 4, 2013
 
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>What God told Moses...
Proves without a doubt, that God is God, and there is NO other!
What ever you want to follow, is Your choice, but with what God
did... you can only deny... you cannot refute!
God is Real... He Proved it!
Oh, yes, I forgot you believe mans claims of who is being told by god something with blind faith.
Moses presented commandments he made. He enforced one of the commandments on that day by murdering three thousand offenders. Moses is the god you worship, in effect. The god that murders non believers. Follow me or be put to death.

I say, give me freedom or give me death.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#109611
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Yours is more Magic than ours!
You think a rock stewed in a sludge, and Poof...
single celled critters appeared!
Funny, that even your car needed a Builder, but Life came from a rock!
The ONLY hope is with Christ, but you will get what you asked for!
Well nature does not produce cars, so man does. I get why your mind believes a god must create. We create, so you automatically assume all must be created in ways man does. Pretty simplistic assumptions. Kind of like thinking tiny men must live in your TV. I have no doubt this is why a god was invented.

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#109612
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Have YOU Looked??
No... I didn't think so!
Yes... God cleaned house... wait for the next cleaning!
I know your god threatens to murder all men, women and children yet again. This is yet another reason I would never worship your god. I do not worship murderers, you do.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#109613
Aug 4, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Between 8 and 3 PM, they are learning the secular subject.
HOWEVER should a few choose to sit and quietly discuss OTHER subjects in a study hall, INCLUDING what ever books they might be discussing-- not harming themselves or others--leave them kids alone!!
and they all got along JUST fine..of a learned respect OF and For others beliefs and differences, humanely and decently (usually) bless their little hearts.
Do you know what "proselytizing" means? It has nothing to do with students in study hall discussing among themselves.
This debate is about the state proselytizing, not students. Public schools are the state.

Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
College religion courses are critical in nature, not devotional. That's the key difference.
Critical religion courses in high schools would be fine and dandy if teachers understood the material well enough to tackle it and were not too drunk on Christ to actually teach it *critically*.
The purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the state from hammering religion down your throat or preventing you from practicing your religion. It is not meant to allow you to, y'know, hammer your religion down peoples' throats.
I love how Christianity rules the nation but because people aren't allowed to proselytize to kids between 8 and 3 PM Christians are "persecuted".
"You won't let me lead the class in 'Old Rugged Cross'....PERSECUTION! The Liberal atheists have taken over!"

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#109614
Aug 4, 2013
 
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
It supports MY point NOW, just as much as it did when I(!) first presented it!
It was writ to secure the right of religious freedom of worship-EXEMPT from GOVERNMENT interference.
And ONLY an IDIOT would even presume to conclude Jefferson, as being any sot of IGNORANT atheist--ESPECIALLY after reading a letter such as this, where obviosly the man had RESPECT OF AND FOR, the varying beliefs of OTHERS.
Probably because he was FAR more intelligent than to USE the disgustingly IGNORANT excuse of "atheism" just to try exclude himself from having a code of CIVIL ETHICS of DECENCY AND Morality.
Get it yet?
Atheism is NO EXCUSE whatsoever, NONE at all...to think that anyone is "above" having to have Ethics, Decency AND Morality in a civilized society, and to ignorantly think otherwise is on par lvel as being nothing more than being of a criminal THUG Mentality, plain and simple!!
How does a state offer religious freedom? By keeping its hands out of promoting religions. This builds a wall of separation.
Danbury wished for the state to promote one religion over others. This keeps freedom of religion from flourishing.
So when someone wishes to teach the bible in public schools and no other religion, it is promoting a religion. It is respecting one religion.

And yes, Jefferson was a believers of sorts. Likely more of a deist.

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#109615
Aug 4, 2013
 

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SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
I just don't think they had the same advanced technological abilities to see "everywhere", as we do now.
I don't dispute great floods.
I believe they happened....there's too much evidence PROVING they did.
And no one is disputing floods have no occurred all throughout history and killed many men. I dispute the bibles claims about one particular flood. I think most of the claims in the Noah story are false. If it has a tiny grain of truth, does it make it a good story to tell? My opinion is no, it is a highly immoral story to tell.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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I think of parables that are more open to pondering like Noahs, or for another example, the Good Samaritan, the same as I would of, for instance, of the elements that can be found in Aesops tale of The Ant and the Grasshopper.
There is STILL, good Moral basis to be gleaned of such.

It's all in HOW one perceives/and reads such.

And, I will STILL remain of the opinion that I personally do NOT actually know with certainty, what went on during the parable of a flood as possibly experienced by Noah, other than GEOLOGY HAS proven extreme climate changes in the region-INcluding areas of now dry, arid lands being, where once flourishing, water laden and lush agriculture existed, and adding to that, sooo many archeological evidences that seem to fortify other passages that are mentioned in this particular book. Therefore, I would never be so condescendingly arrogant as to insist that anyone else view it with any absolute certainty in one particular regard or another.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109617
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>How does a state offer religious freedom? By keeping its hands out of promoting religions. This builds a wall of separation.
Danbury wished for the state to promote one religion over others. This keeps freedom of religion from flourishing.
So when someone wishes to teach the bible in public schools and no other religion, it is promoting a religion. It is respecting one religion.
And yes, Jefferson was a believers of sorts. Likely more of a deist.
Disagree on the Danbury thing. I think the letter showed the intent of the willingness of the forefathers in keeping the government OUT of the "business" of peoples personal choices in religion. GOOD for people who chose to live as individuals, rather than shackled to plantations of diests...even if probably why we need a flat federal sales tax with no exclusions these days.

My personal opinion on the rest, they're all interesting, and learning about anything like that just offers insights, as to just how people may think (or not...and I don't think communisTic type regimish ones, think very enlightenedly...more so rather power hungrily and corruptedly)
SistaNoneYaBiz

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Aug 4, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So is this the curriculum of the Kentucky bible classes? I highly doubt it. Cite your sources please?\
And where is the part about a holy ghost helping you interpret the meanings?
Read the post before it...there's about four no brainer links if you need to check them out.

I did not include any from Ky colleges, although.........I could, but I won't...you can search them out yourself, and ask for guidance along the way if you should need to, or not...as that would be your Personal choice of introspective thought.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109619
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I found nothing in your argument that shows favoring a religion in a public government run school is constitutional.
There are many different ways in which to word the same concept.
So tell me just what you think this part of the constitution means?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"?
That the forefathers didn't have quite a hold on creating as perfectly an oiled running nation as they thought they did.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109620
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Do you know what "proselytizing" means? It has nothing to do with students in study hall discussing among themselves.
This debate is about the state proselytizing, not students. Public schools are the state.
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
College religion courses are critical in nature, not devotional. That's the key difference.
Critical religion courses in high schools would be fine and dandy if teachers understood the material well enough to tackle it and were not too drunk on Christ to actually teach it *critically*.
The purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the state from hammering religion down your throat or preventing you from practicing your religion. It is not meant to allow you to, y'know, hammer your religion down peoples' throats.
I love how Christianity rules the nation but because people aren't allowed to proselytize to kids between 8 and 3 PM Christians are "persecuted".
"You won't let me lead the class in 'Old Rugged Cross'....PERSECUTION! The Liberal atheists have taken over!"
Could ya ban some of those stations proselytizing some of that earache awful, incoherant and inconhesive mouth full of marbles metal and rap by the decibals DAILY, in and around and on public school grounds while yer trying? Thx in advance lol.
SistaNoneYaBiz

London, KY

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#109621
Aug 4, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I found nothing in your argument that shows favoring a religion in a public government run school is constitutional.
There are many different ways in which to word the same concept.
So tell me just what you think this part of the constitution means?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"?
OR it may be in reference to these answers? Which would make sense too.

Answer
A group of orangutans is known as a congress. They are large apes that are prevalent in Southeast Asia, particularly on the Borneo and Sumatra islands. They are omnivorous, but lean more towards the herbaceous side and they are about 2/3 the size of a gorilla.

(Or even an) Additional Answer...

A group of orangutans is also known as a buffoonery.

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong there!
I guess you don't have kids...
They're lil see-n-says...
Repeat everything you say!
you can say anything you want ... action speaks louder than words.

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