Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 148376 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#109664 Aug 5, 2013
Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."In a letter to Edward Livingston Madison further expanded, "We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt." This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Jefferson and championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109665 Aug 5, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, if you were on the Mormon list and you never asked to be taken off then you are still counted as a member. That sort of thing is not going to affect your life at all (we are talking about a fantasy organization, after all) but it irritates me that their numbers are artificially swollen.
Me too honestly. More inactive members should write the letter to be removed, or sign the one that you can get from the Bishop. I'd rather have accurate numbers as well.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109666 Aug 5, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Seeing as how the subject was faith in god in general, I am not sure why you act as if I am off topic. Again it is you who does not seem to be able to keep up with the subject.
No, I cannot get past the idea faith is a virtue. I cannot just dive in and believe in a god that has absolutely zero evidence and looks to be extremely conflicted and immoral. I know all this insults you, so sugar coating is not going to likely help anyway.
I see faith as a weakness, not a virtue.
Is faithfully believing god wants you to fly a plane into a building a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness.
Is discriminating upon others due to your religious beliefs a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness, and this is why I oppose your beliefs.
This has everything to do with you not being able to defend your faith with logical reasoning.
I have never heard of Mormons flying planes into buildings, so to compare us to Islamic terrorists seems immature at best.
I'm not asking you to dive in. Stay on the side of the pool if you want. That's your choice. "Faith is a virtue" are words I have not said. Faith is a hope and belief of things not seen. I have faith because I have received answers that could not have come from my own thoughts. I know I have heard the voice of the Holy Ghost because I learned something that I didn't know before. I believe in the Holy Ghost because had I not listened to the words He spoke, I would be dead today.
I don't expect you to believe me, but I would hope that these things I say could happen to others, to enrich their lives. These experiences, and even better ones, can happen to anyone if they seek God.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#109667 Aug 5, 2013
When teachers enforce their beliefs onto students, the line between Church and State is crossed and they are in violation of the First Amendment. Teachers should avoid discussion on religion within the classroom. If the child wants to learn of Religion, it should be done at home or a Church.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109668 Aug 5, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Then say the words, because I cannot read your thoughts. But the answer has already been given by others and I already. Do you not accept those answers as logical? If not, why not? What about those answers defies logic? Do you dispute their was a mass extinction? Do you dispute there was a large difference in the amount of oxygen then? Do you dispute there was a void that mammals were better adapted to fill? Do you dispute there were animals around hundreds of millions of years ago?
Sometimes evolution looks like the luck of the draw, and in some respects it might be. Animals go extinct quite often. Humans might be extinct within a few thousand years. Maybe it will be a hundred thousand years from now. If that is the end of humans, we will have existed for less time than many dinosaurs. If that is the end, we will have existed for less time than some other hominids.

I know it is instinctive to think all was built for us, but in the history of earth, humans are yet but a blip in time.
One could say the earth looks more like it was built for cockroaches, or ants. Ants would likely say this, but they do not have such an imagination.
Q answered the question very well. The oxygen. It's interesting to me. I'm not disputing anything. Get your panties out of a wad.

Most people think about Tyrannosaurus rex for Brachiosaurus or pteranodon types when they think of dinosaurs. Most people don't think about the dinosaurs that lived in the water. But if I need to be more specific, there you go. My question was about land dwelling dinosaurs. Why don't we have creatures that size anymore? Oxygen content was an interesting answer. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109669 Aug 5, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, and the bible claims many things that are highly unlikely. But even if it were so, it still does not make David a good, moral man. What he did was premeditated murder. I do not consider murderers, moral people. Maybe you have lower standards. Maybe god has lower standards. I guess my standards are higher than gods. I do not forgive David for murdering. To put such a person on a pedestal is sending a poor message. It sends the message that one can murder and yet be off the hook. David should have been put in prison for his deeds. But the god you worship gave him a pass after murdering the innocent child of his. Yet another poor moral message. Punish the person who committed the crime, not his family. What kind of screwed up lesson is this?
I am sure you would never consciously teach your kids to punish a persons family for the crimes of one member.Yet if you teach the David story, that is just what you are doing.

This is why I have no faith in the bible or your god.

These are not the sort of stories I want taught to my kids. It is a poor moral message.
To me it illustrates the difference in the lesser law and the higher law. Because Moses' people were too wicked to live the higher law, God gave them lesser laws like: eye for an eye.
We live today under the higher law that Jesus restored. So I would not expect any Christian to teach this as a good practice. But forgiveness should be taught. Jesus taught it was our job to forgive everyone, as hard as that may be, and leave the judgment to God. But if we must judge, we are to do so with righteousness, because as we judge, we will be judged.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109670 Aug 5, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for proving the point and posting a classic example of ignorance in action, and why actual ENLIGHTENMENT, is far greater than dark age, juvenile ignorance. Had you actually had some education in "religions of the world", you possibly might know better.
But since you'd obviously rather remain ignorant, and merely hate on that which you obviously have no idea on what you're even hating on--I'll be glad to humor you at your level some, but after that, please excuse those of us who are Unafraid to LEARN beyond the little narrow sandbox you (and others like you) stand in frothing from, because tehre is FAR greater things to glean, so here --have a nice box of crayola crayons, and DO try and color within the lines, t makes for a neater apperance. Hope THAT'S not too complicated for you (and ones like you)!!!
No, it's not too complicated. Its just vacuous. Re-read your post. You said absolutely NOTHING. What in the world are you trying to say?? You typed almost 150 words to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about but you didn't identify even one specific thing I said that was wrong.

At least when I rail against crazy Fundies I point out what it is about their beliefs that are incorrect. For example, the Noah story is a myth that was copied largely from another myth, which almost certainly came from some earlier myth. That's how these things work.

Do you disagree with that? If so, why?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109675 Aug 5, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What if the creator, created the laws of science? And since He does not want to be "proven" because it disposes of the need for faith because it is contrary to His plan, couldn't He avoid being proven to ensure His plans are not foiled?
And I can't really compare God to a scientist. Unless you know some that are claiming to BE God, I don't think it is a relevant comparison.
2. Why would God not be perfect if He had a Father? Jesus was perfect and He had a Father.
1. You realize this argument is exactly like kids on a playground:

"I shot you! You're dead!"

"Nuh-uh. I was weavin'!"

"Well I used anti-weavin' bullets."

"I was wearin' anti-weavin' bullet armor."

"I was usin' anti-weavin' bullet armor piercing rounds, sucker!"

See what I mean?

Why posit a god to begin with, just as I said? The idea that god wants you to have faith is an invention of religion. You have NO EVIDENCE that it is true.

Damn, dude. I give up. Faith is dumb but if it makes you happy then be happy. I mean that. Just please don't support laws and politicians who support hate and prejudice. The LDS dropped millions on Prop 8 because they want to control the happiness and sexuality of other people.

Don't put up with that shit. You can a better person, even a better Mormon if that's what you have to be. Just don't support ignorance.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109676 Aug 5, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The definition of murder was spilling of innocent blood. David was told there was no innocence in the people he fought against.
If I told you to kill everyone in Burnside and assured you there were no innocent people...even the babies...would that get you off the hook if you carried it out?

And what do you think of god torturing and killing David's baby because of what David did? That's your god, by the way.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109678 Aug 5, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too honestly. More inactive members should write the letter to be removed, or sign the one that you can get from the Bishop. I'd rather have accurate numbers as well.
That's good to know.

And I don't bash the LDS too much on this topic. From the various interviews I've heard with former members its a mixed bag on getting out. For some it was a nightmare, for others it was really fast and easy. I guess it depends on the local hierarchy.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Manchester, KY

#109680 Aug 5, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Q answered the question very well. The oxygen. It's interesting to me. I'm not disputing anything. Get your panties out of a wad.
Most people think about Tyrannosaurus rex for Brachiosaurus or pteranodon types when they think of dinosaurs. Most people don't think about the dinosaurs that lived in the water. But if I need to be more specific, there you go. My question was about land dwelling dinosaurs. Why don't we have creatures that size anymore? Oxygen content was an interesting answer. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
Most people don't think about the period of the dino's was around 200 Million years long and during that time there were many, many Ice ages, Warm periods, Meteor impacts, Volcano outbreaks and a whole host of crap happen that killed off some and made other thrive... Dinos were as small as humming birds or Huge... We really only find the bones of those dino's that had large widely spread population because only one in a million or one in a Hundred Million individuals found themselves in conditions that would lead to fossilization...

It was no different then than today ... How many times have any of you out there ran across a intact carcass in the woods.. But we know Millions of animals die every year.. In Michigan during the winter more deer die from starvation and cold, old age and natural causes than are killed by hunters... Yet in the 10 Years I hunted the forests I may have run across 2 dead deer in the woods and they didn't last a week until all you found was hair...

Same thing would have happened during the dino eras... It took a rare set of events for a fossil to form... And the smaller, more fragile the life form the less likely for it to form a fossil...

Also today we know that even the big guys didn't live to long.. by looking at Growth rings in fossilized bones we know that full grown and aging Tyrannosaurus Rex only live to be about 30 years old... And started out from an egg about the size of an ostrich egg... And some full grown dino's were smaller than mice...

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Manchester, KY

#109681 Aug 5, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. So I "worship" someone because I mentioned his name fondly? The bar for religion is pretty god-damned low, isn't it?
Yeah I read the bit you posted from this article.
So?
It's an interesting article. It goes a long way toward demonstrating why the Noah myth is a myth. Myths are based loosely on real events, as myself and at least one other person have already pointed out. There are LOTS of floods and flood stories in the world. It is a common event.
The point is this: the story of Noah's Ark is a fiction. It doesn't matter if there was a real flood in the area at some point. I god-damn guarantee an old man over a hundred years old and his family didn't traverse the globe gathering animals by the twos, build a large boat, and survive 40 days of rain that topped the highest mountains.
That shit never happened.
What probably happened was some settlements got flooded in a big way. Someone survived or found the dead bodies. Stories were told. Stories grew. Eventually the story of Gilgamesh was told and from that came the story of Noah, and so on.
Can we agree on that? If not, you are arguing from a position of faith and not reason and there's very little we can actually say to each other that will amount to a hill of beans.
I tend to group the Noah myth and the other Great flood myth into the mass memory of human kind during the end of the last ice age... And I still have a feeling that there was a greater catastrophic event that brought the ice age to and end.. More and more the finds around the globe seem to point to a Crustal Shift.. rather than a global temp warming.. and such a shift would have been so destructive that any civilization would have been devastated and the survivors would have passed the storied along leading the the great destruction myths we have today, and a reason for megalithic structures built on global alinements...
John

Winchester, KY

#109682 Aug 5, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
I tend to group the Noah myth and the other Great flood myth into the mass memory of human kind during the end of the last ice age... And I still have a feeling that there was a greater catastrophic event that brought the ice age to and end.. More and more the finds around the globe seem to point to a Crustal Shift.. rather than a global temp warming.. and such a shift would have been so destructive that any civilization would have been devastated and the survivors would have passed the storied along leading the the great destruction myths we have today, and a reason for megalithic structures built on global alinements...
talk to pr lady about this
i agree

Lexington, KY

#109683 Aug 6, 2013
i hope they pass it

“Topix Idiotae plena estut tibi”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#109684 Aug 6, 2013
i agree wrote:
i hope they pass it
They won't, it's a violation of the Constitution and civil liberties. If it passes it'll end up having an injunction put on it by the courts and will end up being struck down before it can ever go into effect.

Despite whatever foolishness you choose to believe, this is not a "Christian nation", we don't follow "Christian law", and teaching religion of any sort in public schools is unconstitutional.

Simply put, Bible study is about as useful to education as a course called Twilight study where you'd study the work of Stephanie Myers as if it were real.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#109685 Aug 6, 2013
happy wrote:
School is for education about real things not about someone telling you about a book that is supposelly true but can't be proved.
It is true... People just don't want it to be! Besides... Education covers all things worth learning!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#109686 Aug 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
A big part of the reason is Oxygen... During the first part of the earths history photosynthesis was the dominate life forms... before the lands were covered with plant life the oceans where pumping O2 out for millions of years and samples show the O2 levels during the later Cretaceous & Jurassic periods had O2 levels Far above today's, at periods as much as 10 times the levels of today... With higher O2 levels insects and other animals can grow larger as the O2 is easier to metabolize ... In insect we can actually reproduce the effect in the lab with insects that breed and die fast giving us several generations in a reasonably short time frame.. In just a few generations fruit flies can be grown that are 3 to 4 times the size of normal flies by just increasing the O2 level a few percentage points...
In Insects it's due to breathing through their extremities and the O2 carrying vessels can only be so large and the only way they can get more O2 is to have a higher concentration in the gasses...
There is also a theory that Blue Whales take in O2 through the skin and developed the long ridges on their bodies to have more surface area on top of coming to the surface to breath and may be why they can achieve such sizes and remain submerged for such long periods...
Now... drop your dating conflicts, and tie it to the flood, where God's words says Lifespans were longer during that hyperbaric period!
Wrong again Sparky

Richmond, KY

#109687 Aug 6, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
And bingo. You just restated the central fallacy in your entire worldview very nicely.
Ask yourself a question: can you prove that I am not god?
The answer is no. You can't. Therefore, by your logic, anyone would be justified in believing that I am god.
Do you see the problem with your logic?
By allowing for the supernatural to be part of natural explanations you destroy any possibility of doing real work with science. The guy who carefully measures the angles, trajectories, and forces involved in sending a rocket into space would have his ideas compete with the guy who suggesting praying for the rocket to get to the moon.
"Ask yourself a question: can you prove that I am not god?"

Yes... we can, but don't have to, as you prove that with every post!

“Topix Idiotae plena estut tibi”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#109688 Aug 6, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>It is true... People just don't want it to be! Besides... Education covers all things worth learning!
Do me a favor, pick one thing from the Bible...any one thing you want, and prove it's true. No religious double-talk like "I choose God, it's true because he's all around us" or anything silly like that. Actually prove that one thing is true.

“Topix Idiotae plena estut tibi”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#109689 Aug 6, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Now... drop your dating conflicts, and tie it to the flood, where God's words says Lifespans were longer during that hyperbaric period!
But, provide evidence that this was the case. "God's word" isn't proof, because God didn't write the Bible. The things in the Bible are folklore and mythology spread down through spoken traditions until someone decided to write them down.

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