Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 141188 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109588 Aug 4, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
It supports MY point NOW, just as much as it did when I(!) first presented it!
It was writ to secure the right of religious freedom of worship-EXEMPT from GOVERNMENT interference.
And ONLY an IDIOT would even presume to conclude Jefferson, as being any sot of IGNORANT atheist--ESPECIALLY after reading a letter such as this, where obviosly the man had RESPECT OF AND FOR, the varying beliefs of OTHERS.
Probably because he was FAR more intelligent than to USE the disgustingly IGNORANT excuse of "atheism" just to try exclude himself from having a code of CIVIL ETHICS of DECENCY AND Morality.
Get it yet?
Atheism is NO EXCUSE whatsoever, NONE at all...to think that anyone is "above" having to have Ethics, Decency AND Morality in a civilized society, and to ignorantly think otherwise is on par lvel as being nothing more than being of a criminal THUG Mentality, plain and simple!!
You do know that Thomas Jefferson cut out all the magic from the Bible and pasted the remaining bits into his own version, the Jeffersonian Bible...right? I'm not saying the man was an atheist but please don't make the ignorant mistake of saying he was anything at all like a Christian in the sense that you understand it.

He rejected the divinity of Jesus, for pete's sake.

Also, since when did atheism have anything to do with rejection of ethics? Did I miss that memo? From my reading and study on this topic it seems that atheists are very concerned with ethical questions and spend a metric f*ckton of time talking about it.

All I ever hear from Fundies is that atheists are Satanic and "god did it".

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109589 Aug 4, 2013
The Jefferson Bible (not the "Jeffersonian" as I posted):

"Using a razor, Jefferson cut and pasted his arrangement of selected verses from the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in chronological order, mingling excerpts from one text to those of another in order to create a single narrative. Thus he begins with Luke 2 and Luke 3, then follows with Mark 1 and Matthew 3. He provides a record of which verses he selected and of the order in which he arranged them in his "Table of the Texts from the Evangelists employed in this Narrative and of the order of their arrangement".
Consistent with his naturalistic outlook and intent, most supernatural events are not included in Jefferson's heavily edited compilation. Paul K. Conkin states that "For the teachings of Jesus he concentrated on his milder admonitions (the Sermon on the Mount) and his most memorable parables. What resulted is a reasonably coherent, but at places oddly truncated, biography. If necessary to exclude the miraculous, Jefferson would cut the text even in mid-verse."[8] Historian Edwin Scott Gaustad explains, "If a moral lesson was embedded in a miracle, the lesson survived in Jeffersonian scripture, but the miracle did not. Even when this took some rather careful cutting with scissors or razor, Jefferson managed to maintain Jesus' role as a great moral teacher, not as a shaman or faith healer."[9]
Therefore The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth begins with an account of Jesusís birth without references to angels (at that time), genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from his collection.[10]
No supernatural acts of Christ are included at all in this regard, while the few things of a supernatural nature include receiving of the Holy Spirit,[11] angels,[12] Noah's Ark and the Great Flood,[13] the Tribulation,[14] the Second Coming,[15] the resurrection of the dead,[16] a future kingdom,[17][18] and eternal life,[19] Heaven,[20] Hell[21] and punishment in everlasting fire, the Devil,[22] and the soldiers falling backwards to the ground in response to Jesus stating, "I am he."[23]
Rejecting the resurrection of Jesus, the work ends with the words: "Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed." These words correspond to the ending of John 19 in the Bible."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible#...
Yes and Amen

Winchester, KY

#109590 Aug 4, 2013
Out of Area wrote:
"Your children will see what you're all about by what you live rather than what you say."
Wrong there!
I guess you don't have kids...
They're lil see-n-says...
Repeat everything you say!
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109591 Aug 4, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Are you suggesting, that when God told Noah, He was going to clean house...
He left a few stragglers???
Many civilizations recorded a Flood story, and Noah's kids
didn't sit around the house late in years, as they do now!
I just don't think they had the same advanced technological abilities to see "everywhere", as we do now.

I don't dispute great floods.

I believe they happened....there's too much evidence PROVING they did.
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109592 Aug 4, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
College religion courses are critical in nature, not devotional. That's the key difference.
Critical religion courses in high schools would be fine and dandy if teachers understood the material well enough to tackle it and were not too drunk on Christ to actually teach it *critically*.
The purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the state from hammering religion down your throat or preventing you from practicing your religion. It is not meant to allow you to, y'know, hammer your religion down peoples' throats.
I love how Christianity rules the nation but because people aren't allowed to proselytize to kids between 8 and 3 PM Christians are "persecuted".
"You won't let me lead the class in 'Old Rugged Cross'....PERSECUTION! The Liberal atheists have taken over!"
Between 8 and 3 PM, they are learning the secular subject.

HOWEVER should a few choose to sit and quietly discuss OTHER subjects in a study hall, INCLUDING what ever books they might be discussing-- not harming themselves or others--leave them kids alone!!

and they all got along JUST fine..of a learned respect OF and For others beliefs and differences, humanely and decently (usually) bless their little hearts.
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109593 Aug 4, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that Thomas Jefferson cut out all the magic from the Bible and pasted the remaining bits into his own version, the Jeffersonian Bible...right? I'm not saying the man was an atheist but please don't make the ignorant mistake of saying he was anything at all like a Christian in the sense that you understand it.
He rejected the divinity of Jesus, for pete's sake.
Also, since when did atheism have anything to do with rejection of ethics? Did I miss that memo? From my reading and study on this topic it seems that atheists are very concerned with ethical questions and spend a metric f*ckton of time talking about it.
All I ever hear from Fundies is that atheists are Satanic and "god did it".
From the actions of some on here-they have absolutely NO regard OR respect for the beliefs of others, and THAT IGNORANCE is NO excuse either-NO matter the race, CREED or color.

(and anyone that's read any US history realizes what a grand plantation lord Jefferson was as well. SO there.)
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109594 Aug 4, 2013
Yiago wrote:
The Jefferson Bible (not the "Jeffersonian" as I posted):
"Using a razor, Jefferson cut and pasted his arrangement of selected verses from the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in chronological order, mingling excerpts from one text to those of another in order to create a single narrative. Thus he begins with Luke 2 and Luke 3, then follows with Mark 1 and Matthew 3. He provides a record of which verses he selected and of the order in which he arranged them in his "Table of the Texts from the Evangelists employed in this Narrative and of the order of their arrangement".
Consistent with his naturalistic outlook and intent, most supernatural events are not included in Jefferson's heavily edited compilation. Paul K. Conkin states that "For the teachings of Jesus he concentrated on his milder admonitions (the Sermon on the Mount) and his most memorable parables. What resulted is a reasonably coherent, but at places oddly truncated, biography. If necessary to exclude the miraculous, Jefferson would cut the text even in mid-verse."[8] Historian Edwin Scott Gaustad explains, "If a moral lesson was embedded in a miracle, the lesson survived in Jeffersonian scripture, but the miracle did not. Even when this took some rather careful cutting with scissors or razor, Jefferson managed to maintain Jesus' role as a great moral teacher, not as a shaman or faith healer."[9]
Therefore The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth begins with an account of Jesusís birth without references to angels (at that time), genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from his collection.[10]
No supernatural acts of Christ are included at all in this regard, while the few things of a supernatural nature include receiving of the Holy Spirit,[11] angels,[12] Noah's Ark and the Great Flood,[13] the Tribulation,[14] the Second Coming,[15] the resurrection of the dead,[16] a future kingdom,[17][18] and eternal life,[19] Heaven,[20] Hell[21] and punishment in everlasting fire, the Devil,[22] and the soldiers falling backwards to the ground in response to Jesus stating, "I am he."[23]
Rejecting the resurrection of Jesus, the work ends with the words: "Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed." These words correspond to the ending of John 19 in the Bible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible#...
Another One mans opinion-ONLY.

The world is FULL of that!

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#109595 Aug 4, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Beats the ell out of living in some dark age, thug, commieTic, slobbering rabid dogs society.
yeah, well sorry for your reality. Que sera sera.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#109596 Aug 4, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>I Love it when Bob Beckle says something truly right...
And two seconds later....
What IF your dating methods were bunk... what would that
do to your theories???
Don't give me that "Many ways of dating" stuff...
Be honest... What IF?
What ifs are part of the delusion process... There are dozens of different was of dating stuff... We test that dating methods are correct, The Basic Science used in the assorted dating methods is well understood and applies to many other scientific principles... And those assorted methods and other fields using those scientific principles verify themselves everyday in assorted experiments in labs across the world and processes used in assorted manufacturing process across the globe... If Carbon dating was bunk, which is only used for dating to around 50,000 years then your computer would not work and you would not have flat screen TV's...

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109598 Aug 4, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't failed to answer anything that I am aware of. I don't always answer insults because they aren't questions.
I have presented logic within the Christian Faith. Once you can accept that there is a God and that Jesus Christ is His Son, my logic makes sense. But since I have readily admitted that faith is required to believe in God, you can't make it past that first step to begin to understand the rest of my logic. Milk before meat
Seeing as how the subject was faith in god in general, I am not sure why you act as if I am off topic. Again it is you who does not seem to be able to keep up with the subject.
No, I cannot get past the idea faith is a virtue. I cannot just dive in and believe in a god that has absolutely zero evidence and looks to be extremely conflicted and immoral. I know all this insults you, so sugar coating is not going to likely help anyway.
I see faith as a weakness, not a virtue.
Is faithfully believing god wants you to fly a plane into a building a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness.
Is discriminating upon others due to your religious beliefs a virtue or a weakness in your eyes? I see it as a weakness, and this is why I oppose your beliefs.
This has everything to do with you not being able to defend your faith with logical reasoning.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109599 Aug 4, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm talking about land dwelling creatures.
Then say the words, because I cannot read your thoughts. But the answer has already been given by others and I already. Do you not accept those answers as logical? If not, why not? What about those answers defies logic? Do you dispute their was a mass extinction? Do you dispute there was a large difference in the amount of oxygen then? Do you dispute there was a void that mammals were better adapted to fill? Do you dispute there were animals around hundreds of millions of years ago?
Sometimes evolution looks like the luck of the draw, and in some respects it might be. Animals go extinct quite often. Humans might be extinct within a few thousand years. Maybe it will be a hundred thousand years from now. If that is the end of humans, we will have existed for less time than many dinosaurs. If that is the end, we will have existed for less time than some other hominids.

I know it is instinctive to think all was built for us, but in the history of earth, humans are yet but a blip in time.
One could say the earth looks more like it was built for cockroaches, or ants. Ants would likely say this, but they do not have such an imagination.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109600 Aug 4, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Just telling you what the Bible said. This was David's only sin
Yes, and the bible claims many things that are highly unlikely. But even if it were so, it still does not make David a good, moral man. What he did was premeditated murder. I do not consider murderers, moral people. Maybe you have lower standards. Maybe god has lower standards. I guess my standards are higher than gods. I do not forgive David for murdering. To put such a person on a pedestal is sending a poor message. It sends the message that one can murder and yet be off the hook. David should have been put in prison for his deeds. But the god you worship gave him a pass after murdering the innocent child of his. Yet another poor moral message. Punish the person who committed the crime, not his family. What kind of screwed up lesson is this?
I am sure you would never consciously teach your kids to punish a persons family for the crimes of one member.Yet if you teach the David story, that is just what you are doing.

This is why I have no faith in the bible or your god.

These are not the sort of stories I want taught to my kids. It is a poor moral message.
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109601 Aug 4, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm assuming you are a Christian of some stripe or another. You might find it shocking to learn that when you take a "religious studies" course in college it is not Sunday School. You learn comparative religion and, if you have a good instructor, you might dive into some psychology of religion.
If you come out of such a class more religions than when you went in your brain is broken.
Bible study - genuine Bible study - produces a lot of atheists. Have you actually read that book? I posted a few pages back the passages where god tortures and kills a baby because David pissed him off by being a dickhead.
That's your deity.
Northern Continental native American first, christened RC as a newborn, raised in a "biologically imperialistic" Newtonian apple orchard environment that included daily secular academics and Work M-F, And of more spiritual teachings Sat AND Sunday....when upon reaching the years of young adulthood, granted the freedom to stand of my own two feet (sans the plague of givvermint entitleMentalcase plantation shackles and chains socio-Illogical disorders).
Never had a problem sitting amongst those of the more organized churchly persuasions-- although I did find the more morose doctrines of some (or anything as Extreme along those lines for that matter) to be seemingly disturbed, and rather unbalanced-as I prefer enlightenment, to the darkness of ignorance ANY day.

And so I can assure you-- whatever deity it is YOU are merely assuming to be another's and are speaking of-is NOT my deity.

I am Not into that self exaulting, dark age, pitch fork and torch carrying witch hunting, hatred type stuff at all, and would thank you kindly, if you are, to keep your mired in darkness eye for an eye hater junk to yourself, and I will keep my scalp the top of your head off to show the empty cavity within, because I find THAT nonsense to be some really Mentally UNhealthy, and REALLLY juvenile type stuff.

:-)

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109602 Aug 4, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists believe there is no God
Life and intelligence were created and,if not by a living intelligent being" GOD" then by whom or what?
If not by God,then what or who created the necessary ingredients to bring life into existence?
Which would lead us to conclude that Non living and Nonintelligent Nothing created Something out of Nothing and through some unknown process was able to create life and intelligence.
Yet, mankind,having life and intelligence is unable to explain or duplicate that which the nonliving and nonintelligent was able to accomplish.
To me,that stretches credulity into the realm of insanity.
But then,we find that those intelligent proponents of atheism,such as, Darwin, Thomas Huxley, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Sigmund Freud were found to be inflicted with severe mental problems....
It may be that;
" you don't know anyone who says "that we owe our life and intelligence to some nonexisting ,nonliving nonintelligent power which was able to somehow,create living intelligent beings."
They may not say it,but it is difficult to come to any other conclusion.
You can spin it,cut n dice it any way you want...
My uncle had a saying"No matter how expensive the perfume with which you spray a skunk,it is still a skunk....
Just because it is difficult for you to conclude does not mean it is a false conclusion. Most of those who study nature as a profession ( scientists)conclude life needs no intelligent creator. Many if not most of these people were once god believing persons. But after much study they most often conclude it is highly plausible no creator god is needed.
So when a religious fundamentalist rants on and on about all these highly educated and professional people being stupid or insane, it only makes you seem to be all the more brainwashed.

It is not reasonable to expect man to be able to duplicate in a lab what took ten billions years of natural forces to create.
But yet man has produced the building blocks of life in a lab that leads one reasonably assume nature could have produced life naturally over the span of a billion years of earth existing.

Side note, Darwin never promoted atheism.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109603 Aug 4, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists believe there is no God
Life and intelligence were created and,if not by a living intelligent being" GOD" then by whom or what?
If not by God,then what or who created the necessary ingredients to bring life into existence?
Which would lead us to conclude that Non living and Nonintelligent Nothing created Something out of Nothing and through some unknown process was able to create life and intelligence.
Yet, mankind,having life and intelligence is unable to explain or duplicate that which the nonliving and nonintelligent was able to accomplish.
To me,that stretches credulity into the realm of insanity.
But then,we find that those intelligent proponents of atheism,such as, Darwin, Thomas Huxley, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Sigmund Freud were found to be inflicted with severe mental problems....
It may be that;
" you don't know anyone who says "that we owe our life and intelligence to some nonexisting ,nonliving nonintelligent power which was able to somehow,create living intelligent beings."
They may not say it,but it is difficult to come to any other conclusion.
You can spin it,cut n dice it any way you want...
My uncle had a saying"No matter how expensive the perfume with which you spray a skunk,it is still a skunk....
I think it is likely, religion was invented in part due to man wanting answers to the universe in a time of little to no science. You show here why someone would assume a creator must exist if he has no idea how it could have come otherwise. Assumptions and imaginations lead to invention. The case here is the invention of god.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109604 Aug 4, 2013
Jutdontell wrote:
<quoted text>
...the many, many schools of (much) higher learning (with many curriculums already in place offering such!!!
And please do NOT TWIST and DISTORT in such VILE libuhrulTicedness the REAL First Amendment which STATES--
VERBATIM
First Amendment - Religion and Expression
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment *OF* religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there*OF* or abridging the freedom *of* speech, or *of* the press; or the right *of* the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
----------
OF being the key prepositional word (NOT "from") as in-
4.
Used to indicate material, component parts, substance, or contents!
----------
As in freedom FROM religious persecutioners!!
Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the Common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
OR some shall have to call you a "LIAR", for doing so!!
I found nothing in your argument that shows favoring a religion in a public government run school is constitutional.

There are many different ways in which to word the same concept.

So tell me just what you think this part of the constitution means?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109606 Aug 4, 2013
SistaNoneYaBiz wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice the major DIFFERENCE in grammar usage of description..."Prose, Poetry"? Ahh, much more suitably defined! Curses to ignorance, give SOME of us actual enlightenment!
RELST 2724 - Intro to Hebrew Bible
The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is a repository of ancient Israelite religious, political, social, historical and literary traditions. For the modern reader these ancient traditions are often obscured by a focus on the text as revelation. The purpose of this course is to introduce students to the biblical world by reading the Hebrew Bible in translation, on its own terms, as a body of literature that evolved in an ancient Near Eastern context. The Bible itself will be the primary text for the course, but students will also be exposed to the rich and diverse textual traditions of the ancient Near East, including Mesopotamia, Egypt, Moab and Ugarit. In addition, this course will explore the impact of early biblical interpretation on shaping the monotheistic traditions inherited in the West. As participants in a secular course on the Bible, students will be challenged to question certain cultural assumptions about the composition and authorship of the Bible, and will be expected to differentiate between a text's content and its presumed meaning.
RELST 3713 - Mizrahi Literature: Poetry and Prose of Jews of the Muslim World in the 20th Century (also JWST/NES 3713)
In this course we will read a selection of works of Jews of the Muslim world in the 20th century, and follow the diversity of languages, genres and geography, and connect those to questions of community and immigration, Colonialism and nationalism, religion and secularization, Canon and its margins, tradition and identity. We will start with the tradition of the Piyut (Liturgical poetry) in Rabbinical Hebrew and Judeo-Arabic; We'll continue with the writing in Judeo-Spanish (Ladino), and discuss Sepharadic identity; We will then move to the writing in Colonial languages (mainly French and English); Then we'll follow the writing of Jews in literary Arabic, mainly in Iraq and Israel, and discuss Jewish-Arab identity; In the Israeli context we will move to discuss writing in Israeli Hebrew, and discuss Mizrahi identity. All readings will be in English.
So is this the curriculum of the Kentucky bible classes? I highly doubt it. Cite your sources please?\

And where is the part about a holy ghost helping you interpret the meanings?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109608 Aug 4, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, if you were on the Mormon list and you never asked to be taken off then you are still counted as a member. That sort of thing is not going to affect your life at all (we are talking about a fantasy organization, after all) but it irritates me that their numbers are artificially swollen.
I remember someone telling me if I did not attend church for seven years, I would be excommunicated. I wonder first, how would they know, and second, do they really work to push people out like this or is it just a veiled threat.

They did send some missionaries to my house a few years back. They knew I was a member and asked if I would come to their church meetings. I did not declare my atheism or tell them I would never come, but I think they understood I was no longer into the whole bit. They have not been back.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109609 Aug 4, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>All I have to say to them is...
Throw a dead dog in the backyard, wait 10,000 years for a lil dust to cover it, and see IF they match any fossils to date!
Only the lowest morons would believe that's how it happened!
Thanks for showing us you have no idea of the conducive conditions for fossilization to occur.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#109610 Aug 4, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>What God told Moses...
Proves without a doubt, that God is God, and there is NO other!
What ever you want to follow, is Your choice, but with what God
did... you can only deny... you cannot refute!
God is Real... He Proved it!
Oh, yes, I forgot you believe mans claims of who is being told by god something with blind faith.
Moses presented commandments he made. He enforced one of the commandments on that day by murdering three thousand offenders. Moses is the god you worship, in effect. The god that murders non believers. Follow me or be put to death.

I say, give me freedom or give me death.

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