Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 134,216

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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Since: Aug 10

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#109525 Aug 2, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe they will... Evolution never stopped... All that's needed is a event the wipes most life on the planet and change the environment significantly and wait a few million years.... Changes in species would happen rather quickly if the environment changed drastically, The more drastic the change to more quickly evolutionary changes happen...

Give you an example...

Say the planet gets smacked with a asteroid that had an abundance of highly radioactive isotopes and caused the earth to have radiation levels 100 times today's levels.... Most life would die in the impact and over time other life would die out that could not survive the increased radiation.... But there would be some life forms that not only survive but Thrive in the new high radiation environment... The radiation would cause fast mutational process and there would be vast regions without predators that the various mutations would begin to fill all the niches .... We have no way of knowing what the results of such would be in a 100 million years... You could have 20 foot long cockroaches and 6,000 lb spiders building spaceships...
Interesting thought

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109526 Aug 2, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>It doesn't matter if nobody knew how kinetic balls are made. You cannot assume something that you don't have a reason to assume. You cannot assume a deity, for example, when we have no examples or evidence for a deity.

Anything else is wishful thinking.

The watchmaker fallacy is well known. Your assertion that things are too complex to have arisen by "chance" is a fallacy. It is both a lack of imagination and an argument from ignorance.

You need to research that stuff. The whole idea of "irreducible complexity" has been completely refuted by science many times over. It is a dead end idea.
It will never be a dead idea. Science has not proven that there is no creator. Therefore science cannot prove that creations were not divinely designed or set in motion.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109527 Aug 2, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Man, I wish you could read your own words from a rational perspective.

You are basically saying that if we don't have concrete evidence *against* something being true it means that it could be true, possibly even probable. OK. If what you're talking about is something we have experience with, such as sunrises and hurricanes, then yes. But if you are talking about magic (and these Biblical stories ARE about magic) then no. You are wrong. It is certainly NOT probable that Jesus rose from the dead, breaking all witnessed and understood limitations of living creatures. It is not probable that Noah herded up millions or even thousands of animals two-by-two onto a giant boat he built with his family.

These things are myths. They did not really happen and there is no good reason whatsoever to think they did.

By your logic I could substitute any crazy idea I wanted and be just as rational, just as likely to be correct as you are. I could say that Martians are observing Earth and planning an attack. We just can't detect them because they block all attempts to be detected. You can't prove me wrong, can you?
It all hinges on the question: is there a divine creator. If the answer is yes, very little would be impossible.

Before deciding that millions of people are idiots for claiming to have belief in a creator, I chose to seek out this creator. I received answers in ways that proved to me that there is a creator and that He is alive and aware of me.
None of this is about proving anything to you. I can't. And I shouldn't. If you want to know, you can do the exact same thing that I did, and you can receive your own answer that you won't be able to prove to anyone else.
It is supposed to be personal, between you and God. And it is supposed to take effort on your part, with your mind ready to accept whatever answer you receive, and ready to act on it even if it isn't the answer you want.
SistaNoneYaBiz

Somerset, KY

#109528 Aug 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So me pointing out your hypocrisy is hypocrisy?
Unlike you, I do not condemn judging the feelings one has in a spiritual state. I think it should be open for discussion. But I did want to point out that you did judge ones feelings and thus were clearly hypocritical.
Evidently you do not even know what hypocritical means.
I see your projectionist judgemental case post, but all I read from it is "blah whining hypocrite blah hypocrite whining blah".

Wait...let me guess...Are you hosting a "how many times anyone can use the word hypocrite in the kindergarten level sandbox" contest?

YOU "WON"!!

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109529 Aug 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The earth we live on is but one planet of many hundreds of billions. Scientists are usually pretty good at math. If the chances were so slim, why would they say it looks to be natural? You act as if you are the first person who ever pointed this out.
So you think complex things cannot be natural? No wonder your kind invented the idea of god.
And you forget that the complex god you believe in needed no creator?
2 things:
1. Who's to say there wasn't a creator that set the laws of nature in motion and defined the boundaries?

2. When did I say the creator needed no creator? I'm the one that voiced my own personal assumption that our Father in Heaven very well could also have a Father. And so on

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109530 Aug 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Their is no logical need for faith.
What you cite is propaganda. This story became the necessity due to the lack of evidence.
Religion succeeded in making you believe faith was a noble thing.

Ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109531 Aug 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well mammals took over. The environment was conducive to the mammals of the day. But you could consider birds, dinosaurs of sorts. Birds fit in the new environment better than large dinosaurs.
Understanding that the climate is way different than when they roamed the earth, but I wonder why we don't have creatures the size of dinosaurs today

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#109532 Aug 2, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>You are right. King David,when living according ti his human nature,was not a good man.
The bible makes it very plain that there is no one who is GOOD.
Christ made that very plain when he stated"There is only one who is good,,That is God.
The key here is that David confessed his sins,humbled himself befor God and was forgiven,as you well know.
And that is what the bible,old and New testament is all about.
Forgiveness. That is why Christ had to come and die on the cross.
Not only does the Bible claim that Christ is from David's bloodline,but also,the prostitute Rahab.....
Merely points to the fact that our ancestors were all sinners,bar none.....
The Bible tells it like it is,not what our corrupt human nature
thinks it should be
The Bible says the only sin he committed was the act with Uriah because of his lust for his wife. Other than that it said he was a perfect man, just the one sin.(Horrible one, yes)

Since: Feb 12

Roseville, CA

#109533 Aug 2, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
It makes sense that there are a bunch of Mormons writing fantasy. The Book of Mormon is Bible fan fiction, albeit terribly written.
"And it came to pass...and it came to pass...and it came to pass...and it came to pass...etc."
I have never read The Book of Mormon so I cannot comment on that part. I ask do whut what LDS believes and read what others say like yourself. I find the debate interesting between atheist and do whut. I have relatives who are baptized Mormons (I know more about mormons from this tread than they do),Jehovah witnesses, non denominational and Catholic.

The Matrix is another of my favorites. The film plays on peoples religious beliefs and skepticism.

Keanu Reeves the blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix. The red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the "real world".

Kind of like having faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

People viewing this thread who have not decided what pill they will take in life and choose that reality.
happy

Manchester, KY

#109534 Aug 2, 2013
School is for education about real things not about someone telling you about a book that is supposelly true but can't be proved.
SKewliscool

Somerset, KY

#109535 Aug 2, 2013
happy wrote:
School is for education about real things not about someone telling you about a book that is supposelly true but can't be proved.
As well as for spelling, grammar and punctuation too!

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Manchester, KY

#109536 Aug 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible says the only sin he committed was the act with Uriah because of his lust for his wife. Other than that it said he was a perfect man, just the one sin.(Horrible one, yes)
A big part of the reason is Oxygen... During the first part of the earths history photosynthesis was the dominate life forms... before the lands were covered with plant life the oceans where pumping O2 out for millions of years and samples show the O2 levels during the later Cretaceous & Jurassic periods had O2 levels Far above today's, at periods as much as 10 times the levels of today... With higher O2 levels insects and other animals can grow larger as the O2 is easier to metabolize ... In insect we can actually reproduce the effect in the lab with insects that breed and die fast giving us several generations in a reasonably short time frame.. In just a few generations fruit flies can be grown that are 3 to 4 times the size of normal flies by just increasing the O2 level a few percentage points...

In Insects it's due to breathing through their extremities and the O2 carrying vessels can only be so large and the only way they can get more O2 is to have a higher concentration in the gasses...

There is also a theory that Blue Whales take in O2 through the skin and developed the long ridges on their bodies to have more surface area on top of coming to the surface to breath and may be why they can achieve such sizes and remain submerged for such long periods...
curious

Ocoee, FL

#109537 Aug 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible says the only sin he committed was the act with Uriah because of his lust for his wife. Other than that it said he was a perfect man, just the one sin.(Horrible one, yes)
Do believe he messed up in having Israel counted...
Correct me if I am wrong

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Manchester, KY

#109538 Aug 2, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
A big part of the reason is Oxygen... During the first part of the earths history photosynthesis was the dominate life forms... before the lands were covered with plant life the oceans where pumping O2 out for millions of years and samples show the O2 levels during the later Cretaceous & Jurassic periods had O2 levels Far above today's, at periods as much as 10 times the levels of today... With higher O2 levels insects and other animals can grow larger as the O2 is easier to metabolize ... In insect we can actually reproduce the effect in the lab with insects that breed and die fast giving us several generations in a reasonably short time frame.. In just a few generations fruit flies can be grown that are 3 to 4 times the size of normal flies by just increasing the O2 level a few percentage points...
In Insects it's due to breathing through their extremities and the O2 carrying vessels can only be so large and the only way they can get more O2 is to have a higher concentration in the gasses...
There is also a theory that Blue Whales take in O2 through the skin and developed the long ridges on their bodies to have more surface area on top of coming to the surface to breath and may be why they can achieve such sizes and remain submerged for such long periods...
Opps... Just noticed I clicked on the wrong post to reply... This was a reply to Do Wut's question on why animals don't grow as large today as during the later Dino Days.....

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109539 Aug 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It will never be a dead idea. Science has not proven that there is no creator. Therefore science cannot prove that creations were not divinely designed or set in motion.
And bingo. You just restated the central fallacy in your entire worldview very nicely.

Ask yourself a question: can you prove that I am not god?

The answer is no. You can't. Therefore, by your logic, anyone would be justified in believing that I am god.

Do you see the problem with your logic?

By allowing for the supernatural to be part of natural explanations you destroy any possibility of doing real work with science. The guy who carefully measures the angles, trajectories, and forces involved in sending a rocket into space would have his ideas compete with the guy who suggesting praying for the rocket to get to the moon.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109540 Aug 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It all hinges on the question: is there a divine creator. If the answer is yes, very little would be impossible.
Before deciding that millions of people are idiots for claiming to have belief in a creator, I chose to seek out this creator. I received answers in ways that proved to me that there is a creator and that He is alive and aware of me.
None of this is about proving anything to you. I can't. And I shouldn't. If you want to know, you can do the exact same thing that I did, and you can receive your own answer that you won't be able to prove to anyone else.
It is supposed to be personal, between you and God. And it is supposed to take effort on your part, with your mind ready to accept whatever answer you receive, and ready to act on it even if it isn't the answer you want.
Yes, I have been down that road too. I used to be a big Jeebus fan myself in my teens. For a short time. But my sense of reason is too compelling for me to suspend it and all that religious claptrap fell away very, very quickly.

What you are saying here is that anything goes. And hey, you can believe whatever crazy stuff you want. That's fine. But I will always point and laugh when you say something like "Joseph Smith translated Reformed Egyptian". Because that is batsh*t nuts.

Having a warm and fuzzy feeling in your heart is fine. Just don't extend that feeling into everyone else's reality. We've been probing nature for hundreds of years and so far no one has turned up even the slightest trace of this god character you talk about. For me, that means I cannot extend any faith to the idea. It would be a naked assertion that something exists for which I have no evidence and no reason to believe exists.

I call that crazy. And many good people who I love dearly are ate up with the crazy.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109541 Aug 3, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right. King David,when living according ti his human nature,was not a good man.
The bible makes it very plain that there is no one who is GOOD.
Christ made that very plain when he stated"There is only one who is good,,That is God.
The key here is that David confessed his sins,humbled himself befor God and was forgiven,as you well know.
And that is what the bible,old and New testament is all about.
Forgiveness. That is why Christ had to come and die on the cross.
Not only does the Bible claim that Christ is from David's bloodline,but also,the prostitute Rahab.....
Merely points to the fact that our ancestors were all sinners,bar none.....
The Bible tells it like it is,not what our corrupt human nature
thinks it should be
Yeah, David was a real prick. But let's consider what your god did in that story:

"14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."

2 Samuel 12

So basically David wants to bone this chick, the wife of Uriah. Uriah won't cooperate so David sends him to a battlefield to die, which he does. Then he screws the chick and she has him a baby. God is displeased. David did a prickish thing.

Now every ounce of moral integrity in my body is saying that god, who has all this power, should smack the bejeezus out of David. And if you are a human being you are feeling the same intuition. David f*cked up, punish David.

What does god do? He murders a baby. Not quickly either. He makes it sick and it takes something like 7 days to die. All the while David is repenting and fasting and basically begging god not to do it.

As an aside, it is also noteworthy what god says just a few lines before this:

"11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun."

Read that again. It means god is going to give Davids wives away for raping.

Reeeeaaaallll nice god you got there, bro. And you want others to become Christians....why?

Keep that noise. I'm fine without it, thanks.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109542 Aug 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
2 things:
1. Who's to say there wasn't a creator that set the laws of nature in motion and defined the boundaries?
2. When did I say the creator needed no creator? I'm the one that voiced my own personal assumption that our Father in Heaven very well could also have a Father. And so on
1. So? Unless you have evidence FOR this creator, why offer it up as a hypothesis to begin with? Scientists don't just pull sh*t out of their asses and present it for review. And if they do, they get shot down. That's why there is NO scientific theory that includes deities.

2. If god has a creator then god is not perfect. That's antithetical to every bit of Christian theology I've ever read about. It also leads to infinite regress, which has some philosophical problems. But hey, at least its honest.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109543 Aug 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible says the only sin he committed was the act with Uriah because of his lust for his wife. Other than that it said he was a perfect man, just the one sin.(Horrible one, yes)
I don't know. All the thousands of people slaughtered in his military campaigns adds up to a lot of blood. Hardly a perfect man at all. More like a murderous, misogynistic thug.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#109544 Aug 3, 2013
Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never read The Book of Mormon so I cannot comment on that part. I ask do whut what LDS believes and read what others say like yourself. I find the debate interesting between atheist and do whut. I have relatives who are baptized Mormons (I know more about mormons from this tread than they do),Jehovah witnesses, non denominational and Catholic.
The Matrix is another of my favorites. The film plays on peoples religious beliefs and skepticism.
Keanu Reeves the blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix. The red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the "real world".
Kind of like having faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.
People viewing this thread who have not decided what pill they will take in life and choose that reality.
I enjoy listening to podcasts. There are tons of great skeptical and atheist podcasts. And for some reason there is a large representation of Formons (former Mormons) in the skeptical movement, so I am more than a little fascinated by that whole religion.

I just listened to an episode of The Scathing Atheist the other day that featured an interview with a former Mormon who described the process of having his name removed from the LDS membership roster. It was really interesting. You can't just quit, you have to write a formal letter stating your intention to leave the church. Then they will call you, visit you, etc. to try and get you to stay. In this guy's case he said it wasn't too difficult. The Bishop called him and he basically said he wanted out of the church because of its homophobic practices. So the Bishop basically said OK.

The LDS boast a huge membership but some significant portion of that membership are people who quit going to church and quit the Mormon faith but who never had their names removed. Also they baptize dead people, for f*ck's sake. That's just creepy and dickish.

Regarding the Matrix, I do love that movie. The first one was fantastic and it is a nice analogy for skepticism. But in the sequels, which SUCKED, they go off the rails. Morpheus keeps talking about his faith and it turns out to be a justified faith, which totally butt-f*cks the whole idea of skepticism and critical thinking bolstered by the first movie.

Now, I do looooove the fight scenes in all of them. The freeway chase in Matrix Reloaded is one of my faves.

But that's just me.

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