Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,006

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
Annoyed

Richmond, KY

#108343 Jul 14, 2013
You call yourself a prince of darkness but you are nothing but a candy ass poser.
With that out of the way, don't bother talking to the steeple about their religion, no one on here will change.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108344 Jul 14, 2013
Annoyed wrote:
don't bother talking to the steeple about their religion, no one on here will change.
If this message board promoted intelligent discussions and debates instead of a broken, anti-discussion 'judging' system - & didn't attract so many overweight, gossiping coal miners' wives, it could happen.

Hardly anyone on here can even tolerate someone with a different viewpoint than them.
Annoyed

Richmond, KY

#108345 Jul 14, 2013
But alas, all we can do here is mingle and egg them on for fun
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108347 Jul 14, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you dodging my posts? When grown-ups make a claim in exchange for information & ideas, they cite their sources.
Could it be because you're full of shit?
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/a...
Religious Affiliation, Atheism and Suicide

Why are atheists so much more likely to be depressed, commit suicide, and suffer from substance abuse?

In fact children of atheists are 76% more likely to suffer from a major depressive issue.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9334555
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108348 Jul 14, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you dodging my posts? When grown-ups make a claim in exchange for information & ideas, they cite their sources.
Could it be because you're full of shit?
"According to researchers from Harvard Medical School, belief in god is correlated with improved outcomes of treatment for depression. Quoting:'In the study, published in the current issue of Journal of Affective Disorders, researchers comment that people with a moderate to high level of belief in a higher power do significantly better in short-term psychiatric treatment than those without. "Belief was associated with not only improved psychological well-being, but decreases in depression and intention to self-harm," says David H. Rosmarin, Ph.D., an instructor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.' This raises interesting questions. Does this support the concept of depressive realism? If the association is found to be causal, would it be ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe religion?"
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108350 Jul 14, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you dodging my posts? When grown-ups make a claim in exchange for information & ideas, they cite their sources.
Could it be because you're full of shit?
Atheism and health

“ In an article also published in this issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Mayo Clinic researchers reviewed published studies, meta-analyses, systematic reviews and subject reviews that examined the association between religious involvement and spirituality and physical health, mental health, health-related quality of life and other health outcomes.
The authors report a majority of the nearly 350 studies of physical health and 850 studies of mental health that have used religious and spiritual variables have found that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes.[3]


The Iona Institute reported:

“ A meta-analysis of all studies, both published and unpublished, relating to religious involvement and longevity was carried out in 2000. Forty-two studies were included, involving some 126,000 subjects. Active religious involvement increased the chance of living longer by some 29%, and participation in public religious practices, such as church attendance, increased the chance of living longer by 43%.[4][5]”

In December of 2003, the University of Warwick reported:

“ Dr. Stephen Joseph, from the University of Warwick, said: "Religious people seem to have a greater purpose in life, which is why they are happier. Looking at the research evidence, it seems that those who celebrate the Christian meaning of Christmas are on the whole likely to be happier.[6]”

Duke University has established the Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health.[7] The Duke University Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health is based in the Center for Aging at Duke and gives opportunities for scholarly trans-disciplinary conversation and the development of collaborative research projects.[8] In respect to the atheism and mental and physical health, the center offers many studies which suggest that theism is more beneficial than atheism.[9]

The Christian group Teen Challenge reported the following:

“ Teen Challenge claims of a 70% cure rate for the drug addicts graduating from their program attracted the attention of the U.S. Federal Government in 1973. Most secular drug rehabilitation programs only experienced a cure rate of 1-15% of their graduates. The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), part of the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, funded the first year of this study to evaluate the long term results of the Teen Challenge program.[10]”

Currently, there is an ongoing debate regarding whether atheism was a causal factor for Friedrich Nietzsche's insanity or whether it was caused strictly by disease.[12][13]

An article published on the Hong Kong Baptist University website offers the following regarding the cause of Friedrich Nietzsche's insanity:

“ Trying to explain what caused his insanity can only be a matter of speculation. Some people believe it was the result of a physical illness. Others interpret his suffering as that of a true prophet, almost as if he were accepting the punishment on behalf of those who could not see mankind's tendency towards self-destruction so clearly. Still others regard his final fate as a natural outcome of his philosophical outlook.[13]”

The Russian-born psychoanalyst and writer Lou Andreas-Salomé, who had a brief and tempestuous affair with Nietzsche, believed that Nietzsche's philosophy can be viewed as a reflection of his psychology and that his madness was the result of his philosophizing.[14] In addition, the French historian René Girard asserted that Nietzsche's philosophy led to his insanity.[15]

“Devourer of Light”

Since: Aug 12

Hell

#108351 Jul 14, 2013
Annoyed wrote:
You call yourself a prince of darkness but you are nothing but a candy ass poser.
With that out of the way, don't bother talking to the steeple about their religion, no one on here will change.
I like you Annoyed you speak your mind.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108352 Jul 14, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/a...
Religious Affiliation, Atheism and Suicide
Why are atheists so much more likely to be depressed, commit suicide, and suffer from substance abuse?
In fact children of atheists are 76% more likely to suffer from a major depressive issue.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9334555
Thank you. Interesting read.

First link is broken, btw.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108353 Jul 14, 2013
Belmont, MA - Belief in God may significantly improve the outcome of those receiving short-term treatment for psychiatric illness, according to a recent study conducted by McLean Hospital investigators.

In the study, published in the current issue of Journal of Affective Disorders (PMID 23051729, DOI: 10.1016/j.jad.2012.08.030), David H. Rosmarin, PhD, McLean Hospital clinician and instructor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, examined individuals at the Behavioral Health Partial Hospital program at McLean in an effort to investigate the relationship between patients' level of belief in God, expectations for treatment and actual treatment outcomes.

"Our work suggests that people with a moderate to high level of belief in a higher power do significantly better in short-term psychiatric treatment than those without, regardless of their religious affiliation. Belief was associated with not only improved psychological wellbeing, but decreases in depression and intention to self-harm," explained Rosmarin.

The study looked at 159 patients, recruited over a one-year period. Each participant was asked to gauge their belief in God as well as their expectations for treatment outcome and emotion regulation, each on a five-point scale. Levels of depression, wellbeing, and self-harm were assessed at the beginning and end of their treatment program.

Of the patients sampled, more than 30 percent claimed no specific religious affiliation yet still saw the same benefits in treatment if their belief in a higher power was rated as moderately or very high. Patients with "no" or only "slight" belief in God were twice as likely not to respond to treatment than patients with higher levels of belief.

The study concludes: "... belief in God is associated with improved treatment outcomes in psychiatric care. More centrally, our results suggest that belief in the credibility of psychiatric treatment and increased expectations to gain from treatment might be mechanisms by which belief in God can impact treatment outcomes."

Rosmarin commented, "Given the prevalence of religious belief in the United States — over 90% of the population — these findings are important in that they highlight the clinical implications of spiritual life. I hope that this work will lead to larger studies and increased funding in order to help as many people as possible."

McLean Hospital is the largest psychiatric affiliate of Harvard Medical School and a member of Partners HealthCare. For more information about McLean, visit www.mclean.harvard.edu or follow the hospital on Twitter@McLeanHospital.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108354 Jul 14, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. Interesting read.
First link is broken, btw.
If you are interested ,Google"Religious Affiliation, Atheism and Suicide

It will get you there.
BTW 1)Curious is a figment of my imagination,Although he has never had a bowel movement,he is not full of tihs..

2) English is not my native tongue. You made the same allegations using your regular nick Yiago..
Just so you understand
Porta fa Hist, zumindest, ein wichtiger . interessiert man sich mehr fur hingegen wird sie als betrachtet.
Vor zehn radaskatz gab es nur mehr , heute wachst die. Unter ihnen und bringt man nicht unbedingt mit

Y,por si acaso no entiendes en Aleman,aqui tienes,en otro de mis favoritos idiomas..

Canto E loco

El proximo te lo mandare en Frances o italiano Capice gumbadi,,,Testa di cipollla

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#108355 Jul 15, 2013
If you had studied the bible the Zimmerman verdict would be no surprise.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108357 Jul 15, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
If this message board promoted intelligent discussions and debates instead of a broken, anti-discussion 'judging' system - & didn't attract so many overweight, gossiping coal miners' wives, it could happen.
Hardly anyone on here can even tolerate someone with a different viewpoint than them.
I won't stand for this!

lol

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108358 Jul 15, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
If you had studied the bible the Zimmerman verdict would be no surprise.
WTF? Just a random brain pooping, Brian?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108359 Jul 15, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/a...
Religious Affiliation, Atheism and Suicide
Why are atheists so much more likely to be depressed, commit suicide, and suffer from substance abuse?
In fact children of atheists are 76% more likely to suffer from a major depressive issue.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9334555
There are a few problems with this study if you are trying to use it as a blunt tool against atheism.

1) A lot of it is self reported, which is the worst way to gather data. People are notoriously bad at giving accurate information about themselves.

2) There is no blinding. That's a HUGE problem. Without blinding, all the biases of the researchers are unfiltered. Researchers who might already think a certain way will be more likely to find confirmation by knowing about participants ahead of time.

3) This is the biggest problem. The sample set are ALL clinically depressed. This is not a sampling of the general population.

Also, if you read the actual study it does not strongly support your opinion about it. For example, the study clearly says:

"This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness. It is notable that hopelessness and depression scores were similar in the religious and nonreligious group but that the two groups differed strongly on perceived reasons for living..."

It is an interesting study, but not particularly useful.

Studies tend to show that group cohesion and social support are what makes the big difference in terms of general health and happiness. Atheists do suffer in this area. Atheists tend to be resistant to group cohesion to a much bigger degree than religious people. And this makes sense if you think about it. If you are a person who needs constant social support you would happily embrace a church environment. If you are more of a loner type then churches might not be your thing.

Humanist groups and certain Unitarian churches do a decent job of providing atheists and agnostics with a social network. There's a good one in Lexington and some in Louisville too.

None of this has anything at all to do with an actual god, by the way. Whether or not god is real does not even enter the picture. This is all about social cohesion, fear, and the need for emotional support.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#108360 Jul 15, 2013
Carl Sagan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. Interesting read.
First link is broken, btw.
Where is the information regarding the percentage of atheists who regularly attend church?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#108361 Jul 15, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
If you had studied the bible the Zimmerman verdict would be no surprise.
If you had studied how Rick Scott and Tallahassee has defended the "stand your ground" law, the Zimmerman verdict would be no surprise.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108362 Jul 15, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a few problems with this study if you are trying to use it as a blunt tool against atheism.
1) A lot of it is self reported, which is the worst way to gather data. People are notoriously bad at giving accurate information about themselves.
2) There is no blinding. That's a HUGE problem. Without blinding, all the biases of the researchers are unfiltered. Researchers who might already think a certain way will be more likely to find confirmation by knowing about participants ahead of time.
3) This is the biggest problem. The sample set are ALL clinically depressed. This is not a sampling of the general population.
Also, if you read the actual study it does not strongly support your opinion about it. For example, the study clearly says:
"This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness. It is notable that hopelessness and depression scores were similar in the religious and nonreligious group but that the two groups differed strongly on perceived reasons for living..."
It is an interesting study, but not particularly useful.
Studies tend to show that group cohesion and social support are what makes the big difference in terms of general health and happiness. Atheists do suffer in this area. Atheists tend to be resistant to group cohesion to a much bigger degree than religious people. And this makes sense if you think about it. If you are a person who needs constant social support you would happily embrace a church environment. If you are more of a loner type then churches might not be your thing.
Humanist groups and certain Unitarian churches do a decent job of providing atheists and agnostics with a social network. There's a good one in Lexington and some in Louisville too.
None of this has anything at all to do with an actual god, by the way. Whether or not god is real does not even enter the picture. This is all about social cohesion, fear, and the need for emotional support.
If you have a problem with this study,you should share your expert opinion with those who authotrd it,not me.

I never said the study was evidence for God's existence,nor did I imply it.
It seems that you have a tendency to see things that are not there.
The studies merely point out problems that exist in society.
As opposed to the very foolish,who,in their state of ignorance,claim that Christians are delusional,believe in magic and have emotional problems as the basis for their belief in God.

Some of your more famous atheists most assuredly had some very serious mental problems,,,
Nietzche,Madalyn O'hair and John Forbes Nash,among others
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108363 Jul 15, 2013
The Decline of Atheism
According to Munich theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg, "Atheism as a theoretical position is in decline worldwide."
According to Oxford's Alister McGrath, Atheism's "future seems increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat," Christianity Today.[1]
Reasons cited for the decline of atheism include:
Substantive challenges to naturalistic explanations for the origin of life;
Substantive challenges to psychological theories viewing religion as a pathology, and a scientific demonstration of the health benefits of a spiritual life;
Philosophical challenges to the presuppositions and axioms of atheism, such as materialism;
The decline of Marxism and Leninism;
Tenuousness of belief in atheism by many of its own believers;
Reduction in atheism and resurgence of theistic belief worldwide;
Inhuman acts committed by atheists throughout the 20th century;
The origin of life
The origin of life (abiogenesis) has always provided something of a challenge for atheism. To date, life has never, under any circumstances, been observed spontaneously arising from non-life. Further, as the study of biology progresses, scientists and the public at large are becoming ever more aware of the profound complexity, intricacy and beauty evident in even the simplest forms of life.
It was detail at this level, specifically the fact that a single cell can contain more information than the entire Encyclopedia Britannica, that convinced the well known atheist Anthony Flew that atheism was indefensible, and caused him to convert to deism.
Psychology
Another traditional bastion of atheism has been the belief that religion is a form of psychological pathology. This view was promoted by Freud, and more recently by R. Stark & W. S. Bainbridge in their work, Theory of Religion. The traditional argument was that religion was both the result of neurosis, and the cause of further deterioration into neurosis.
Recently, however, these ideas have come under fire by medical and psychological research. The Mayo Clinic did an analysis of 850 mental health studies involving religious belief and involvement and found that mental health was positively affected by faith.[2]
Subsequently, 1,200 studies at research centers around the world have come to similar conclusions. For example, Psychologie Heute, a German journal, cites the marked improvement of multiple sclerosis patients in Germany's Ruhr District because of "spiritual resources." [3]
Professor Vitz did a study of the most prominent professed atheists in the last 400 years; it appears that those individuals neither were nor are paragons of mental health, and that a disproportionate number had strained relationships with their fathers.[4][5]
Some challenge Prof. Vitz's argument that the temperament of an atheist arises from a strained relationship with his father, without addressing the possibility that both the atheism and the strained paternal relationship may have stemmed from the child's native cantankerous and rebellious temperament.
As a result of these facts, many have become convinced that religion is psychologically beneficial, and that it is atheism which is both a cause and a result of mental illness.
The decline of Marxism and Leninism
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108364 Jul 15, 2013
The decline of Marxism Leninism
Another example of the decline of atheism in intellectual thought is that atheistic Marxist-Leninist has been in rapid decline throughout the world as a whole. The decline of atheism as an ideology in the intellectual arena can be also be seen in astronomy. The idea that earth and the universe are rare and remarkable in their ability to support life is increasingly being recognized — consider the ideas associated with the anthropic principle of the universe. Also, in astronomy the idea that the universe had a beginning and is not eternal has increasingly been recognized (increasing entropy of the universe, etc.). As a result of atheism's losing its intellectual lustre, Alister McGrath, a professor of historical theology at Oxford University, wrote in Christianity Today that atheism's "future seems increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat".[6]
The apparent tenuousness of atheism in some of its adherents
It seems that atheism is a position that some of its notable adherents find difficult to maintain. Sartre, the most famous professed atheist of the 20th century, said he often had the thought that he was the result of a Creator. Sartre is reported saying in the February 1984 edition of Harper's magazine:
"As for me, I don’t see myself as so much dust that has appeared in the world but as a being that was expected, prefigured, called forth. In short, as a being that could, it seems, come only from a creator; and this idea of a creating hand that created me refers me back to God. Naturally this is not a clear, exact idea that I set in motion every time I think of myself. It contradicts many of my other ideas; but it is there, floating vaguely. And when I think of myself I often think rather in this way, for want of being able to think otherwise." [7]
Francis Crick, who is well known for being a advocate of materialism, is perhaps another example. An article which mentions Francis Crick's stated materialist position contains the following:
"Crick is also a fervent atheistic materialist, who propounds the particle story. In his autobiography, Crick says very candidly biologists must remind themselves daily that what they study was not created, it evolved; it was not designed, it evolved. Why do they have to remind themselves of that? Because otherwise, the facts which are staring them in the face and trying to get their attention might break through."[8]

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#108365 Jul 15, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
If you have a problem with this study,you should share your expert opinion with those who authotrd it,not me.
That would be like George Zimmerman's defense team saying, "If you have a problem with Mr. Zimmerman shooting people take it up with Kel-Tec (the gun manufacturer), not him".
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said the study was evidence for God's existence,nor did I imply it.
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
nor did I imply it.
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
imply
Another word to which I don't think you understand the meaning.

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