Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#108083
Jul 6, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It is relevant.
God operates within certain guidelines. For example, when He covenants with us that if we do a certain thing, He will bless us with a certain blessing, He is then bound to come through on His end if we come through on ours, or else He lied and would cease to be God.
He must operate within the realm of righteousness or He would not be worthy to use the priesthood power and He would cease to be God.
Part of righteousness is performing acts that further righteousness. Idleness and acts that produce nothing, serve no purpose and therefore would be taking time away from righteous acts that He (or we) could be performing. Therefore it would be against the will of God to make a rock for no righteous reason. Testing God with such a statement is unrighteous and a waste of time to ponder. This is why my answer is relevant to your question.
It's not that I'm twisting your question into a pretzel. It is that your lack of knowledge about God leads you to ask the wrong questions.
God does not lie?

1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/god_...

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How stupid can you be wrote:
Here's something for all you liberal idiots who THINK this nation wasn't founded on
Christian principles!
.
Religious quotes of our Founding Fathers!
http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...
http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...
*sigh*

Here's the story. Many of the key players in the framing of this nation were not Christians in the strictest sense. Sure, they were raised Christian and they often attended church services. But they were men of the Enlightenment and embraced the idea of deism...that god is real, but not involved in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Lots of learned men of that age were deists. It made the most sense to them.

Now, virtually all of the other founders were Christians of one stripe or another. So it is absolutely true that the country was founded by *mostly* Christians.

But....so what?

Bill Gates does not believe in god. Do you believe that Windows is an operating system based on "atheist principles"? Steve Jobs does not believe in god. Are iPhones based on "atheist principles"?

Algebra was invented by Muslims. Is algebra based on "Islamic principles"?

If the USA was founded on overtly Christian principles why is there no mention of god, Jesus, or the Bible anywhere in the Constitution? And why is the only mention of a deity anywhere in any of the founding documents referring to the deist idea of god as the god of reason (nature's god)?

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#108085
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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Your definition is a hunch if it can be totally uprooted and reversed by the findings of another piece of evidence that wasn't available at the time the theory was developed. It would be reversing what had been taught as "fact" for who knows how long, but yet that doesn't make it any less wrong.
I don't think you understand the terms.

A fact is basically something so obvious it would be a perverse assault on reason to deny it. For example, it has rained like crazy these past couple of days. That is a fact. Corvettes are made by Chevy. Fact. 2+2=4. Fact.

Scientists refer to evolution as a fact as well. This is because the evidence supporting evolution itself is so overwhelming it WOULD be perverse to deny it. If you do not think that is true then you don't actually know much about evolution. Do some more research.

But the *theory* that explains the *fact* of evolution can and does change over time (it evolves!). That does not make it a hunch. A hundred and fifty + years of hard work has went into the development of this theory and it has never been refuted, only confirmed.

That is not a hunch or guess.

Here's a better example. Isaac Newton's theory about physics stood for centuries and, in fact, still stands today. You can put a rocket on the moon using pretty much the same physics Newton developed. However, when things are very very small or very very large or very very fast Newton's theory breaks down. Einstein's theory comes along and explains physics on an even deeper level, and to a much more precise degree. If you want to send a rocket to Alpha Centauri at the speed of light you need Einstein. Newton won't be a lot of help to you.

But it is still of great value and utility to teach students about Newtonian physics. It still works.

So it is with evolution. Darwin's idea was natural selection. And that idea still stands as the primary driver of evolution. But other things are happening too. Darwin didn't know about genetics. Towards the end of his life he was leaning away from natural selection due to not knowing about genes. Today we know about genes, so we can take his idea a step further.

This is what I mean by stating that theories can and do change over time, even becoming obsolete.

If you consider that to be guesswork then you have a very different idea about what constitutes a guess than most learned people.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#108086
Jul 6, 2013
 

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care8741 wrote:
Evolutionism is a religion/theory whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul that there is no God. Atheism is a religion whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul there is no God. See the resemblance? Recently, a high school grad's college future was threatend because he mentioned God in his graduation speech. The public school has strict guidelines that say what a kid can and cannot say in front of people. God, and the Christian Faith, is on the CANNOT list. Like I have previosly posted; if you are going to talk seperation of religion and school, then tell muslims they can't wear head coverings and bow down at their certian times each day, tell atheists they can't wear t-shirts that say there's no God, tell Jews they can't wear Jewish Star necklaces, tell launguge arts teachers not to read/have read ANY literature having to do with ANY religion. And for Heavens Sake, tell science teachers not to teach the religon/theory of evolution!
Creationists never cease to amaze me. This is one of the dumbest things I've read this week. And that's saying a lot.

Evolution is the study of how animals have changed over time.

Atheist is rejection of the claim that gods exist.

Do you see how they are not the same thing at all?

Many Christians call themselves patriots and like American flags. Does that mean American flags are Christian flags? Many scientists are atheist. Does that mean science is atheism?
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

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#108087
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>i do not think a devil does anything. Do you think Thor does anything?
Thor isn't real...
No... the problem is, you've let satan blur the lines of
what is Right, and Wrong!
You've accepted the Wrong, and turned away from what's Right!
All in his plan to take you to hell!
Go if you want, but we wish you wouldn't!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

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#108088
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So Muslims and hindu's are being tricked into hell by satan? By this reasoning it could be you that is being tricked into hell.
No! Not me!
You see... I was heading in that direction, and
then Jesus saved me!
My eyes were opened to the truth!
Like when I told you about Obama!
I was proud of America electing a Black man for POTUS!
I had a tear in my eye over it... then...
The Lord told me to hold back on that pride, because Obama
was nothing to be proud about!
The VERY next day... Obama proved God right, and has ever since!

Here is the List of his evil... in a not so funny joke form...
Enjoy!
.
Mr. Conservative
Bob: "Did you hear about the Obama administration scandal?"
Jim: "You mean the Mexican gun running?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean SEAL Team 6 Extortion 17?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the State Dept. lying about Benghazi?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the voter fraud?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president demoralizing and breaking down the military?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the Boston Bombing?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president wanting to kill Americans with drones in our own country without the benefit of the law?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president arming the Muslim Brotherhood?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The IRS targeting conservatives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Sebelius shaking down health insurance executives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, e-mails and everything else?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's ordering the release of nearly 10,000 illegal immigrants from jails and prisons and falsely blaming the seqester?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's threat to impose gun control by Executive Order in order to bypass Congress?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's repeated violation of the law requiring him to submit a budget no later than the first Monday in February?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's unconstitutional recess appointments in an attempt to circumvent the Senate's advise-and-consent role?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "HHS employees being given insider information on Medicare Advantage?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Clinton, the IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "I give up!... Oh wait, I think I got it! You mean that 65 million low-information voters stuck us again with the most corrupt administration in American history?"
Bob: "THAT'S THE ONE!"
.
See, God is real!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

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#108089
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>That is a complex question, so why would you think I know the answer?
I can't get you to answer simple questions and here you are asking something only a few highly educated persons might be able to answer, if the answer is even known.
And as I said, if it is not yet known, does that mean your mass murdering god did it? Hell no.
"That is a complex question"
No... it's not, it's just the ANSWER you do not want to say!
God is the Creator of ALL, and you cannot handle that!
Amen!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

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#108090
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Name some of the Christian principles this nation was founded upon?
Thou shalt not murder...
57,000,000 babies were murdered in their mothers womb since 1973
because we've gotten away from our Christian path to Righteousness!
The Founding Fathers KNEW how Evil man's heart was, but I'll bet they NEVER would have imagined this!
Yes and Amen

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#108091
Jul 6, 2013
 

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WeNeedGodBackinAmerica wrote:
 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Amen!
Yes and Amen

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#108092
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Psalm 83:16-18 will answer your question:
16 Fill their faces with dishonor,
That people may search for your name, O Jehovah.
17 O may they be ashamed and be disturbed for all times,
And may they become abashed and perish;
18 That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
My Bible reads this way...
.
83:16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name,
O LORD.
83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yes, let
them be put to shame, and perish:
83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is]
JEHOVAH,[art] the most high over all the earth.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

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#108093
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Nunyabidness420 wrote:
Religion should be left OUT of schools. End of story. Separation of Church and State is there for a REASON.
There was NO separation other than Government NOT squelching the Christian Church!
.
Religious quotes of our Founding Fathers!

http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...
http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...

Enjoy!

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

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#108094
Jul 6, 2013
 
"Blah, blah, blah...."

"How stupid can you be?"
With every post you show us how truly ignorant you are.
You could be the poster boy for atheism.
Keep up the good work.
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

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#108095
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
*sigh*
Here's the story. Many of the key players in the framing of this nation were not Christians in the strictest sense. Sure, they were raised Christian and they often attended church services. But they were men of the Enlightenment and embraced the idea of deism...that god is real, but not involved in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Lots of learned men of that age were deists. It made the most sense to them.
Now, virtually all of the other founders were Christians of one stripe or another. So it is absolutely true that the country was founded by *mostly* Christians.
But....so what?
Bill Gates does not believe in god. Do you believe that Windows is an operating system based on "atheist principles"? Steve Jobs does not believe in god. Are iPhones based on "atheist principles"?
Algebra was invented by Muslims. Is algebra based on "Islamic principles"?
If the USA was founded on overtly Christian principles why is there no mention of god, Jesus, or the Bible anywhere in the Constitution? And why is the only mention of a deity anywhere in any of the founding documents referring to the deist idea of god as the god of reason (nature's god)?
Wrong again!
All that typing of lies, that's been proven wrong many times, by many others on this thread... makes you a bigger tard than Mikey!
Good day, go spread yer lies to others like you... we know the truth!

“I'll think about it.”

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#108096
Jul 6, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>My Bible reads this way...
.
83:16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name,
O LORD.
83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yes, let
them be put to shame, and perish:
83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is]
JEHOVAH,[art] the most high over all the earth.
It is amusing when Christians fight over what they believe primitive superstitious goatherders wrote.

“I'll think about it.”

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#108097
Jul 6, 2013
 

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How stupid can you be wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong again!
All that typing of lies, that's been proven wrong many times, by many others on this thread... makes you a bigger tard than Mikey!
Good day, go spread yer lies to others like you... we know the truth!
LOL! The "truth" bites you on the ass and you shoo it away so you can cling to your delusion. You are funny.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#108098
Jul 6, 2013
 

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How stupid can you be wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong again!
All that typing of lies, that's been proven wrong many times, by many others on this thread... makes you a bigger tard than Mikey!
Good day, go spread yer lies to others like you... we know the truth!
I give you facts, you give me a naked assertion. What part of my post was not factually true?

The only mention of god in the founding documents of this nation is "nature's god". By that, Jefferson meant the god of reason. A deist god. If you think otherwise then you don't know anything about Thomas Jefferson.

Don't just reply with a naked reversal of my argument. Don't just say "You're wrong, I'm right". Demonstrate your opinion with evidence.

"They still believed in a God who played an active role in the affairs of the world but they no longer believed in such doctrines as original sin, the infallibility of Scripture, or Christ's sacrificial atonement. Most had also rejected the virgin birth and the Trinity. Rather than subordinating reason to Biblical revelation, they subjected revelation to reason, discarding those parts of the Bible they found unreasonable. The influence of John Locke and the 18th-century Whig tradition had transformed their concept of God. As Frazer points out, no Calvinist would have made Thomas Jefferson's claim that "nature's God" had created man with an unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.

If, moreover, the founders had been evangelicals on a religious mission, surely they would have mentioned Jesus Christ in the Declaration, the Constitution, or The Federalist. Jefferson drafted the Declaration in the language of theistic rationalism but was artful enough to make it palatable to a wide array of readers, many of whom, as he knew, would be Christians."

https://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id...

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#108099
Jul 6, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
When have I lied?
Says I,You have lied every time that you have intentionally falsified that which I have posted,as you well know.
But that was to be expected. Since I know you lied and you know you lied,then your denying that you lied does not change the fact that both you and I both know that you lied...
I know no such thing. You calling me a liar does not make me one. Cite a specific example of me "lying" or choke on your accusation.
Isn't bearing false witness a sin? My, how your god must be ashamed of you.
curious wrote:
<quoted text>...
I know,but the fact that all of you seem to be seeking to find out how our minds work and a desire to be provided evidence of God's existence points to your search for something that your Atheistic beliefs are not able to provide you...
So, if you know we're not the same person (as you just admitted), why do you constantly make that accusation?
Again, isn't bearing false witness a sin? My, how your god must be ashamed of you.

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#108100
Jul 6, 2013
 

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care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheesh, don't get your turban in a knot! I did not say someone was stopping Christians from silently praying; although I'm sure that's coming. The public school system is stopping Christians from speaking openly about their beliefs...
No, it's not. No one is gagging Xians. Religion just can't be part of a public school function including speeches given at school assemblies.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am positive if a the grad would have mentioned ahla or budah, there would have been no opposition.
Really? What makes you so sure of that? Show me an example of someone praising another god in an approved public school speech. As a side note, I don't know what "ahla" or "budah" is (I guess you meant "Allah" and "Buddha" but haven't figured out how to really use the internet yet).
As another side note, Buddha (if that's who you meant) isn't a god.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>
... So, if the public school system is going to continue to push evolutionism down american children's throats, they might as well be pushing Creationism, too. Science backs it as well. Look it up.
What science? I'll play this game with you. Give me your evidence.

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#108101
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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I give you facts, you give me a naked assertion. What part of my post was not factually true?
The only mention of god in the founding documents of this nation is "nature's god". By that, Jefferson meant the god of reason. A deist god. If you think otherwise then you don't know anything about Thomas Jefferson.
Don't just reply with a naked reversal of my argument. Don't just say "You're wrong, I'm right". Demonstrate your opinion with evidence.
"They still believed in a God who played an active role in the affairs of the world but they no longer believed in such doctrines as original sin, the infallibility of Scripture, or Christ's sacrificial atonement. Most had also rejected the virgin birth and the Trinity. Rather than subordinating reason to Biblical revelation, they subjected revelation to reason, discarding those parts of the Bible they found unreasonable. The influence of John Locke and the 18th-century Whig tradition had transformed their concept of God. As Frazer points out, no Calvinist would have made Thomas Jefferson's claim that "nature's God" had created man with an unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.
If, moreover, the founders had been evangelicals on a religious mission, surely they would have mentioned Jesus Christ in the Declaration, the Constitution, or The Federalist. Jefferson drafted the Declaration in the language of theistic rationalism but was artful enough to make it palatable to a wide array of readers, many of whom, as he knew, would be Christians."
https://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id...
"But, but... Glenn Beck says all the Founding Fathers were Christians and they wanted the U.S. to be a Christian nation. He even cried when he told me so!"

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
"But, but... Glenn Beck says all the Founding Fathers were Christians and they wanted the U.S. to be a Christian nation. He even cried when he told me so!"
Well hell, that changes everything. And he's a Mormon too, so he CANNOT lie!

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