Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 142339 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

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#108072 Jul 5, 2013
treebeard wrote:
<quoted text>HAH! You have unwittingly described yourself!
How so?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#108073 Jul 5, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>I don't dispute that. The problem is, if you are coming from a Creationist point of view, you reject the very definition of "theory" in science and replace it with "hunch".

If we teach kids about science from an early age they will know what terms like "fact" and "theory" mean, in context. But if left to the Creationists they will be ignorant of these ideas. They will assume a theory is just a wild-ass guess.
Your definition is a hunch if it can be totally uprooted and reversed by the findings of another piece of evidence that wasn't available at the time the theory was developed. It would be reversing what had been taught as "fact" for who knows how long, but yet that doesn't make it any less wrong.
Known act

Kissimmee, FL

#108074 Jul 5, 2013
Nunyabidness420 wrote:
Religion should be left OUT of schools. End of story. Separation of Church and State is there for a REASON.
The RELIGION of Evolution should be left out as well!
Why do I call evolution a RELGION is simply because it takes a lot more FAITH to believe in evolution when there is absolutely no evidence to support it. It is totally based on someone's imagination. FAIRY TALE! END OF STORY Separate tax money from fiction!

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108075 Jul 5, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>My conscience is my judging god. I do not have to be caught to feel guilt. Only psychopaths have such detachment capabilities. So if you truly feel this way, maybe you are a psychopath.
I think the concept of god being the judge takes away from the reality of our conscience being a guide. The god and his automatic perceived forgiveness takes our guilt away when it should not.
My actions have consequences no matter if I am caught or not. Poor actions all to often lead to repercussions even if I am not put on the spot for blame. Understanding these realities are key. Sadly religion failed to get this memo. No wonder you think as you do about atheists. You have no idea what we really think.
Try asking us instead of telling us what we think.
Did you ever lie to your Mommy, or steal a cookie, when you were a wee child? If you did not know that lieing and stealing are wrong, would your conscience make you feel bad about it? No. Who would be your responsible judge? Your parents. Ahhh, but how can your parents judge you, and deal out an appropriate punishment, if you did not know those things are wrong? Well, of course they should teach you the right way. It's the same way with Father God and the Bible. Father God is our Judge when our conscience doesn't catch us. As we all know, many people have many differnt beliefs on what's right and wrong. Of course if we think something is right, our conscience will not catch us. So, just so we know what is right and wrong, there is a book called the Bible. That is God's way of teaching us the right way. There is not one thing that happens to us during this life that has not been discussed in it.

I do not pretend to know the minds of Atheists, nor do I want to! I don't know the minds of anybody but myself, and even that is ?able at times. Only God knows our minds. He knew us even before He sent us down to this planet. Believe it or not, He want's us all to come back to Him. The question is, will we choose to???

“I was born a poor, black child”

Since: Jan 07

that weren't no easy thing

#108076 Jul 5, 2013
HO-LY-SHT.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you ever lie to your Mommy, or steal a cookie, when you were a wee child? If you did not know that lieing and stealing are wrong, would your conscience make you feel bad about it? No.
Do what!? Wrong answer, sunshine. If that is your answer, then clearly you have no conscience. You are a danger to society.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>Who would be your responsible judge? Your parents.
Wrong again. YOU. You would be your judge.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text>Ahhh, but how can your parents judge you, and deal out an appropriate punishment, if you did not know those things are wrong?
It's not about punishment. It's about learning, and growing.
care8741 wrote:
<quoted text> ***insert gospel drivel***...As we all know, many people have many differnt beliefs on what's right and wrong. Of course if we think something is right, our conscience will not catch us...
***insert more gospel drivel***
What is wrong for one person, may not be wrong for another. That is to be determined by your conscience. You're in bad shape, as you don't have one.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108077 Jul 5, 2013
Evolutionism is a religion/theory whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul that there is no God. Atheism is a religion whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul there is no God. See the resemblance? Recently, a high school grad's college future was threatend because he mentioned God in his graduation speech. The public school has strict guidelines that say what a kid can and cannot say in front of people. God, and the Christian Faith, is on the CANNOT list. Like I have previosly posted; if you are going to talk seperation of religion and school, then tell muslims they can't wear head coverings and bow down at their certian times each day, tell atheists they can't wear t-shirts that say there's no God, tell Jews they can't wear Jewish Star necklaces, tell launguge arts teachers not to read/have read ANY literature having to do with ANY religion. And for Heavens Sake, tell science teachers not to teach the religon/theory of evolution!

“I was born a poor, black child”

Since: Jan 07

that weren't no easy thing

#108078 Jul 5, 2013
care8741 wrote:
Evolutionism is a religion/theory whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul that there is no God. Atheism is a religion whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul there is no God. See the resemblance? Recently, a high school grad's college future was threatend because he mentioned God in his graduation speech. The public school has strict guidelines that say what a kid can and cannot say in front of people. God, and the Christian Faith, is on the CANNOT list. Like I have previosly posted; if you are going to talk seperation of religion and school, then tell muslims they can't wear head coverings and bow down at their certian times each day, tell atheists they can't wear t-shirts that say there's no God, tell Jews they can't wear Jewish Star necklaces, tell launguge arts teachers not to read/have read ANY literature having to do with ANY religion. And for Heavens Sake, tell science teachers not to teach the religon/theory of evolution!
Evolutionism (if you have to call it that) has nothing to do with the believing or disbelieving in any god. It deals only with the change in organisms. That's like saying the theory of relativity has something to do with Gandalf the Grey. You're real bad retarded.
deal

Elizabethtown, KY

#108079 Jul 5, 2013
care8741 wrote:
Evolutionism is a religion/theory whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul that there is no God. Atheism is a religion whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul there is no God. See the resemblance? Recently, a high school grad's college future was threatend because he mentioned God in his graduation speech. The public school has strict guidelines that say what a kid can and cannot say in front of people. God, and the Christian Faith, is on the CANNOT list. Like I have previosly posted; if you are going to talk seperation of religion and school, then tell muslims they can't wear head coverings and bow down at their certian times each day, tell atheists they can't wear t-shirts that say there's no God, tell Jews they can't wear Jewish Star necklaces, tell launguge arts teachers not to read/have read ANY literature having to do with ANY religion. And for Heavens Sake, tell science teachers not to teach the religon/theory of evolution!
Muslims will stop wearing their "head coverings" when Christians stop wearing crosses. This includes teachers who hang them on the classroom walls! No one is stopping your crazy arse from praying. Pray on! Evolution is a pretty big part of Science and excluding it limits a student's ability to comprehend basic principles.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108080 Jul 5, 2013
treebeard wrote:
HO-LY-SHT.
<quoted text>
Do what!? Wrong answer, sunshine. If that is your answer, then clearly you have no conscience. You are a danger to society.
<quoted text>
Wrong again. YOU. You would be your judge.
<quoted text>
It's not about punishment. It's about learning, and growing.
<quoted text>
What is wrong for one person, may not be wrong for another. That is to be determined by your conscience. You're in bad shape, as you don't have one.
Ohh, I see now. If a 2 yr. old looks at candy in a store aisle, thinks it's pretty, and puts it in his/her pocket, his/her conscience automaticly knows that what he/she has done is wrong, without any previos teaching, and causes the toddler to have regret. LOL;) Your funny...

That, my friend, WOULD be a perfect teaching opportunity for the child, and no, punishment SHOULD NOT be a factor. It is the same with new Christians. God gives us plenty of learning opportunities, with pop quizes and tests all along the way. Plus, we have to best study guide on the market, the Bible!

Now, picture the same 2 yr. old, 14 yr.s later. After being taught and guided by his/her parents all his/her young life, he/she still doesn't get that stealing is wrong. He/she sees a pair of shiny new Reboks on the shoe store shelf, kicks of his/her old sneakers, slips on those, and walks out the door. The teen doesn't get very far, though, because the store security gaurd caught the whole action on tape. The police are notified. Should this 16 yr. old be punished? Of course. He knows not to steel and he did it anyway. This is also the same way with us and God. God teaches us, and teaches us, and teaches us, until finally we get it. However, even though get it, does that mean we won't try to get away with it? No. God is like the security gaurd, catching it all on tape. Just like the kid in the example, we to need to be punished. I'm not talking about go strait to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200. God punishes us down here on earth. I am not going to explain THAT ONE to you; although I will say recently I Injured my miniscus, and I can probably link that to the way I was treating my Mother.

I would also say that it is scary having someone running around who thinks that what is right for one person is wrong for another. I wonder if that is the mind set of adulterers, bank robbers, and child molesters???(After all, in some countries they think it's 'right' to eldery men to marry 9 yr. old girls. Is that what you were talking about?)

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108081 Jul 5, 2013
deal wrote:
<quoted text>
Muslims will stop wearing their "head coverings" when Christians stop wearing crosses. This includes teachers who hang them on the classroom walls! No one is stopping your crazy arse from praying. Pray on! Evolution is a pretty big part of Science and excluding it limits a student's ability to comprehend basic principles.
Sheesh, don't get your turban in a knot! I did not say someone was stopping Christians from silently praying; although I'm sure that's coming. The public school system is stopping Christians from speaking openly about their beliefs; as noted in the statement you commented on. I am positive if a the grad would have mentioned ahla or budah, there would have been no opposition. And no, Christians are not going to stop wearing Crosses, just like muslims are not going to stop wearing coverings, and teachers are not going to stop teaching evolutionism. Your either for it or aginst it, baby. Just like you are either for The True God or aginst him. You can not take one out with out taking them all out. You can not serve God and the devil. So, if the public school system is going to continue to push evolutionism down american children's throats, they might as well be pushing Creationism, too. Science backs it as well. Look it up.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#108082 Jul 5, 2013
treebeard wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutionism (if you have to call it that) has nothing to do with the believing or disbelieving in any god. It deals only with the change in organisms. That's like saying the theory of relativity has something to do with Gandalf the Grey. You're real bad retarded.
Evolutionists believe that everything started with a big bang, and all living organisms slowly started to appear, one from another. Go ask an evolutionist if they believe in the God from the Bible... Now go ask a Christian where God fits in to the theory/religion of evolution... see my point?

Leave Gandalf the Grey, whom is now Gandalf the White, out of it. What did he ever do to you? He had some good advice for anyone who will listen, though... It's all about what you do with the time you have been given...

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108083 Jul 6, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It is relevant.
God operates within certain guidelines. For example, when He covenants with us that if we do a certain thing, He will bless us with a certain blessing, He is then bound to come through on His end if we come through on ours, or else He lied and would cease to be God.
He must operate within the realm of righteousness or He would not be worthy to use the priesthood power and He would cease to be God.
Part of righteousness is performing acts that further righteousness. Idleness and acts that produce nothing, serve no purpose and therefore would be taking time away from righteous acts that He (or we) could be performing. Therefore it would be against the will of God to make a rock for no righteous reason. Testing God with such a statement is unrighteous and a waste of time to ponder. This is why my answer is relevant to your question.
It's not that I'm twisting your question into a pretzel. It is that your lack of knowledge about God leads you to ask the wrong questions.
God does not lie?

1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/god_...

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108084 Jul 6, 2013
How stupid can you be wrote:
Here's something for all you liberal idiots who THINK this nation wasn't founded on
Christian principles!
.
Religious quotes of our Founding Fathers!
http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...
http://christianity.about.com/od/independence...
*sigh*

Here's the story. Many of the key players in the framing of this nation were not Christians in the strictest sense. Sure, they were raised Christian and they often attended church services. But they were men of the Enlightenment and embraced the idea of deism...that god is real, but not involved in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Lots of learned men of that age were deists. It made the most sense to them.

Now, virtually all of the other founders were Christians of one stripe or another. So it is absolutely true that the country was founded by *mostly* Christians.

But....so what?

Bill Gates does not believe in god. Do you believe that Windows is an operating system based on "atheist principles"? Steve Jobs does not believe in god. Are iPhones based on "atheist principles"?

Algebra was invented by Muslims. Is algebra based on "Islamic principles"?

If the USA was founded on overtly Christian principles why is there no mention of god, Jesus, or the Bible anywhere in the Constitution? And why is the only mention of a deity anywhere in any of the founding documents referring to the deist idea of god as the god of reason (nature's god)?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108085 Jul 6, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Your definition is a hunch if it can be totally uprooted and reversed by the findings of another piece of evidence that wasn't available at the time the theory was developed. It would be reversing what had been taught as "fact" for who knows how long, but yet that doesn't make it any less wrong.
I don't think you understand the terms.

A fact is basically something so obvious it would be a perverse assault on reason to deny it. For example, it has rained like crazy these past couple of days. That is a fact. Corvettes are made by Chevy. Fact. 2+2=4. Fact.

Scientists refer to evolution as a fact as well. This is because the evidence supporting evolution itself is so overwhelming it WOULD be perverse to deny it. If you do not think that is true then you don't actually know much about evolution. Do some more research.

But the *theory* that explains the *fact* of evolution can and does change over time (it evolves!). That does not make it a hunch. A hundred and fifty + years of hard work has went into the development of this theory and it has never been refuted, only confirmed.

That is not a hunch or guess.

Here's a better example. Isaac Newton's theory about physics stood for centuries and, in fact, still stands today. You can put a rocket on the moon using pretty much the same physics Newton developed. However, when things are very very small or very very large or very very fast Newton's theory breaks down. Einstein's theory comes along and explains physics on an even deeper level, and to a much more precise degree. If you want to send a rocket to Alpha Centauri at the speed of light you need Einstein. Newton won't be a lot of help to you.

But it is still of great value and utility to teach students about Newtonian physics. It still works.

So it is with evolution. Darwin's idea was natural selection. And that idea still stands as the primary driver of evolution. But other things are happening too. Darwin didn't know about genetics. Towards the end of his life he was leaning away from natural selection due to not knowing about genes. Today we know about genes, so we can take his idea a step further.

This is what I mean by stating that theories can and do change over time, even becoming obsolete.

If you consider that to be guesswork then you have a very different idea about what constitutes a guess than most learned people.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108086 Jul 6, 2013
care8741 wrote:
Evolutionism is a religion/theory whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul that there is no God. Atheism is a religion whose followers believe with all their heart, mind, and soul there is no God. See the resemblance? Recently, a high school grad's college future was threatend because he mentioned God in his graduation speech. The public school has strict guidelines that say what a kid can and cannot say in front of people. God, and the Christian Faith, is on the CANNOT list. Like I have previosly posted; if you are going to talk seperation of religion and school, then tell muslims they can't wear head coverings and bow down at their certian times each day, tell atheists they can't wear t-shirts that say there's no God, tell Jews they can't wear Jewish Star necklaces, tell launguge arts teachers not to read/have read ANY literature having to do with ANY religion. And for Heavens Sake, tell science teachers not to teach the religon/theory of evolution!
Creationists never cease to amaze me. This is one of the dumbest things I've read this week. And that's saying a lot.

Evolution is the study of how animals have changed over time.

Atheist is rejection of the claim that gods exist.

Do you see how they are not the same thing at all?

Many Christians call themselves patriots and like American flags. Does that mean American flags are Christian flags? Many scientists are atheist. Does that mean science is atheism?
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

#108087 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>i do not think a devil does anything. Do you think Thor does anything?
Thor isn't real...
No... the problem is, you've let satan blur the lines of
what is Right, and Wrong!
You've accepted the Wrong, and turned away from what's Right!
All in his plan to take you to hell!
Go if you want, but we wish you wouldn't!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

#108088 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So Muslims and hindu's are being tricked into hell by satan? By this reasoning it could be you that is being tricked into hell.
No! Not me!
You see... I was heading in that direction, and
then Jesus saved me!
My eyes were opened to the truth!
Like when I told you about Obama!
I was proud of America electing a Black man for POTUS!
I had a tear in my eye over it... then...
The Lord told me to hold back on that pride, because Obama
was nothing to be proud about!
The VERY next day... Obama proved God right, and has ever since!

Here is the List of his evil... in a not so funny joke form...
Enjoy!
.
Mr. Conservative
Bob: "Did you hear about the Obama administration scandal?"
Jim: "You mean the Mexican gun running?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean SEAL Team 6 Extortion 17?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the State Dept. lying about Benghazi?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the voter fraud?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president demoralizing and breaking down the military?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the Boston Bombing?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president wanting to kill Americans with drones in our own country without the benefit of the law?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president arming the Muslim Brotherhood?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The IRS targeting conservatives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Sebelius shaking down health insurance executives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, e-mails and everything else?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's ordering the release of nearly 10,000 illegal immigrants from jails and prisons and falsely blaming the seqester?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's threat to impose gun control by Executive Order in order to bypass Congress?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's repeated violation of the law requiring him to submit a budget no later than the first Monday in February?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's unconstitutional recess appointments in an attempt to circumvent the Senate's advise-and-consent role?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "HHS employees being given insider information on Medicare Advantage?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Clinton, the IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "I give up!... Oh wait, I think I got it! You mean that 65 million low-information voters stuck us again with the most corrupt administration in American history?"
Bob: "THAT'S THE ONE!"
.
See, God is real!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

#108089 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>That is a complex question, so why would you think I know the answer?
I can't get you to answer simple questions and here you are asking something only a few highly educated persons might be able to answer, if the answer is even known.
And as I said, if it is not yet known, does that mean your mass murdering god did it? Hell no.
"That is a complex question"
No... it's not, it's just the ANSWER you do not want to say!
God is the Creator of ALL, and you cannot handle that!
Amen!
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

#108090 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Name some of the Christian principles this nation was founded upon?
Thou shalt not murder...
57,000,000 babies were murdered in their mothers womb since 1973
because we've gotten away from our Christian path to Righteousness!
The Founding Fathers KNEW how Evil man's heart was, but I'll bet they NEVER would have imagined this!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#108091 Jul 6, 2013
WeNeedGodBackinAmerica wrote:
 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Amen!

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