Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 132,261

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107671 Jun 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Animals kill each other too, not just for food either. That doesn't mean we should copy that behavior either.
Animals kill for food or to protect food territory.
Looking at the history of the world, humans certainly do this.
Looking at the bible, humans certainly do this and often claim they did it with gods blessing.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107672 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Start by showing evidence of a creator and then we will talk about what that creator might be capable of doing.
And claiming nothing created the creator makes no sense.
If no creator was needed to create the creator, then why does it take a creator to create the universe?
that was to one of the more allegedly sophisticated fundies, I'd guess. first cause uncaused sounds more educated than the Bible thumpers. but not much more rational. People do not seem to see that both the Bible God and any alleged creator god of our universe are both horrid creatures unworthy of respect or worship - and would be even if they existed. as it is, it is more the believers in them who are unworthy of any respect.

your quick summary was a sufficient answer to all the first cause type assertions. but for the philosophical and the scientific, the whole notions of time and causation are involved also, as well as the question of multiverses. as an agnostic I do not even have to put a toe into those deep waters - I am content not to know and to suspect we cannot know.

I just want to know about what we can do to prevent disasters of global warming and nuclear waste and nuclear bombs in the hands of terrorists and irresponsible heads of state or military leaders. And how to get idiot people in democracies to not elect irresponsible leaders, including members of Congress who head key committees. I am no fan of Menendez, even, or even of Levin, but they are better than the Republicans.

I see nothing we can do regarding the big bang, and do not even approve of wasting money on research that is too full of hubris and curiosity, and is not valuable for the preservation of the planet and life* on it, in relatively tolerable circumstances.*Including polar bears and inhabitants of rain forests, also honey bees and song birds, and pandas.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107673 Jun 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
So should those that wish to practice incest be allowed those rights?
Incest is not natural. Homosexual behavior is prevalent in nature, but incest is not. Incest is prevalent in the bible though. In fact, the claim of the bible shows all humans are the product of two relationships of incest, Adam and Eve, and Noah and his family.

Incest is known to result in deformations in offspring. This alone will keep it off the list of what our government will condone.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107674 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Animals kill for food or to protect food territory.
Looking at the history of the world, humans certainly do this.
Looking at the bible, humans certainly do this and often claim they did it with gods blessing.
unfortunately some animals kill for other reasons - as in males fighting for the honor of bestowing their dna on too many females. I do not think one can entirely whitewash the animal kingdom - but man is the worst of them. Since I do not believe in conventional notions of free will, I think there are plenty of causes of human misconduct (including murder), including of course the notions of several religious groups - now and in the past. But racism and nationalism and sexism and dismissal of the ill and old as useless, and other evil notions, including political, economic*, and philosophical ideologies, also lead to killings either deliberate or through heartless negligence*(*especially in the case of economic).

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107675 Jun 29, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> that was to one of the more allegedly sophisticated fundies, I'd guess. first cause uncaused sounds more educated than the Bible thumpers. but not much more rational. People do not seem to see that both the Bible God and any alleged creator god of our universe are both horrid creatures unworthy of respect or worship - and would be even if they existed. as it is, it is more the believers in them who are unworthy of any respect.
your quick summary was a sufficient answer to all the first cause type assertions. but for the philosophical and the scientific, the whole notions of time and causation are involved also, as well as the question of multiverses. as an agnostic I do not even have to put a toe into those deep waters - I am content not to know and to suspect we cannot know.
I just want to know about what we can do to prevent disasters of global warming and nuclear waste and nuclear bombs in the hands of terrorists and irresponsible heads of state or military leaders. And how to get idiot people in democracies to not elect irresponsible leaders, including members of Congress who head key committees. I am no fan of Menendez, even, or even of Levin, but they are better than the Republicans.
I see nothing we can do regarding the big bang, and do not even approve of wasting money on research that is too full of hubris and curiosity, and is not valuable for the preservation of the planet and life* on it, in relatively tolerable circumstances.*Including polar bears and inhabitants of rain forests, also honey bees and song birds, and pandas.
I don't claim to know either, but the religious claim to know, yet have zero evidence.

Part of a full life is to enjoy life. If that includes putting some money and effort into understanding non critical studies in science, so be it.
The main thing slowing progress in the global warming issue is the right wingers who are in denial about many sciences. You know, the kind that deny homosexuality is natural.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107676 Jun 29, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> unfortunately some animals kill for other reasons - as in males fighting for the honor of bestowing their dna on too many females. I do not think one can entirely whitewash the animal kingdom - but man is the worst of them. Since I do not believe in conventional notions of free will, I think there are plenty of causes of human misconduct (including murder), including of course the notions of several religious groups - now and in the past. But racism and nationalism and sexism and dismissal of the ill and old as useless, and other evil notions, including political, economic*, and philosophical ideologies, also lead to killings either deliberate or through heartless negligence*(*especially in the case of economic).
I agree, and I am also of the camp of non-conventional notions about free will.
I think racism and the sort, are offshoots of our instinctive behavior pattern, keeping outsiders from our territory.
Race can distinguish groups, but it does not determine if the group is hostile or friendly.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#107677 Jun 29, 2013
The whole history of modern Fundamentalists denying science is pretty interesting. I think it was the cast in the 19th century that most religious people (most people) accepted science pretty firmly. But this was because science had not yet really stepped on their religious toes very much. Then Darwin comes along and BAM.

No place for god? The Fundies do have a problem with that. Although I'm not exactly sure where the value for "god" could be inserted into any formulas to arrive at a meaningful answer...

http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/10/1953/S...

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107678 Jun 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
You're just sad that I get straight to the point and didn't play your game?
Yet you did not get to the point at all. You played the game of dodge.
No religious persons here dared confront the actual question, can god create a rock he cannot lift.
I did not ask if he wants to create the damn rock, I asked if he can.
So either answer my question, or keep playing games to avoid answering the question. I am sure you will do the latter, as you often do when confronted with a hard question.

I am really just dumbfounded you claim to not be playing games.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107679 Jun 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not 100% true. Some animals kill for fun
Can you tell us which animal does this, other than humans?
I have heard of no study that makes this claim.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107680 Jun 29, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Many Animals kill for Sport....
If by "sport" you mean practice, then yes, that sometimes occurs. A kitten might fight a bug scurrying around to hone his skills to hunt.
Their is a hypothesis that says humans play all sports to satisfy the instinct to hunt.
What is fun and how do we get pleasure from hunting? It all seems to boil down to our instincts.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107681 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I don't claim to know either, but the religious claim to know, yet have zero evidence.
Part of a full life is to enjoy life. If that includes putting some money and effort into understanding non critical studies in science, so be it.
The main thing slowing progress in the global warming issue is the right wingers who are in denial about many sciences. You know, the kind that deny homosexuality is natural.
yes, and some of the worst ones are Republicans who were or are on the science and technology committees in the House and Senate. They are anti-science.

As for the scientists enjoying life by studying the immediate after events of the big bang, let them do it on their own money, not mine. Same with all the generals and neocons who enjoy making wars in the mideast. Same on all the women seeking abortions after not using birth control in consensual sexual relationships (they have the right, but not with my tax money). Same with all the damned animal experiments that torture and kill animals in the name of science. They are letting some of the chimps go. I do not respect socalled science based upon torture of animals. Let them experiment on human first-degree murderers, instead of animals, and instead of giving the murderers the death penalty.
Curiosity - even intellectual curiosity - are often attributes of folks with socalled scientific abilities, and compassion is not required of them in too many cases. Look at how Oppy finally realized what he had done and was bent down with the weight of it, almost literally.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107682 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, and I am also of the camp of non-conventional notions about free will.
I think racism and the sort, are offshoots of our instinctive behavior pattern, keeping outsiders from our territory.
Race can distinguish groups, but it does not determine if the group is hostile or friendly.
Have you been watching the Zimmerman trial, and the news about how many people on so called social media are attacking the black high school girl who was on the phone with the victim, when he was being stalked by Zimmerman? Did you know the judge refused to dismiss a prospective juror for cause when the juror said she had seen news about black people having "riots" about the case? The case is doomed from the start both by the horrid Florida law, and by the judge, and the consequent jury with no black persons on it - though the defense could get black prospective jurors off the jury.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107683 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Can you tell us which animal does this, other than humans?
I have heard of no study that makes this claim.
that was to du what, and I suspect some cats play with mice and birds because they are challenged by the motion, and do not eat them afterwards. I am not even sure if they intend to kill, in some cases. There certainly is no evidence of hatred in their killing, in such cases, at least.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#107684 Jun 29, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> yes, and some of the worst ones are Republicans who were or are on the science and technology committees in the House and Senate. They are anti-science.
As for the scientists enjoying life by studying the immediate after events of the big bang, let them do it on their own money, not mine. Same with all the generals and neocons who enjoy making wars in the mideast. Same on all the women seeking abortions after not using birth control in consensual sexual relationships (they have the right, but not with my tax money). Same with all the damned animal experiments that torture and kill animals in the name of science. They are letting some of the chimps go. I do not respect socalled science based upon torture of animals. Let them experiment on human first-degree murderers, instead of animals, and instead of giving the murderers the death penalty.
Curiosity - even intellectual curiosity - are often attributes of folks with socalled scientific abilities, and compassion is not required of them in too many cases. Look at how Oppy finally realized what he had done and was bent down with the weight of it, almost literally.
Well that is a lot of issues in one post.
Testing on humans is cruel and unusual punishment. The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment in my book. Testing on animals is cruel also.

You have the right protest what the government spends money on, and you can vote to push your views. Keep in mind, no one person will get all of his wishes here. Utopia is an impossibility.

Abortion is seen as a health right because it actually is. Some pregnancies can lead to almost certain death. The only person who is allowed to make this absolute determination is the mother.

I am not sure how much money the government is spending on the big bang, but I doubt it is much if any.
NASA's budget for a year would cover about two weeks of war in Iraq.
I think if we spent less on war and more on any science, the problems you are concerned with would be addressed as part of this spending.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#107685 Jun 29, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Incest is not natural. Homosexual behavior is prevalent in nature, but incest is not. Incest is prevalent in the bible though. In fact, the claim of the bible shows all humans are the product of two relationships of incest, Adam and Eve, and Noah and his family.
Incest is known to result in deformations in offspring. This alone will keep it off the list of what our government will condone.
Incest in the Animal Kingdom is very normal.... all needed is to check out the local deer populations, cat population and wild dog and wolf populations inner family procreation is prevalent in all social animal groups in the wild...
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#107687 Jun 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
The whole history of modern Fundamentalists denying science is pretty interesting. I think it was the cast in the 19th century that most religious people (most people) accepted science pretty firmly. But this was because science had not yet really stepped on their religious toes very much. Then Darwin comes along and BAM.
No place for god? The Fundies do have a problem with that. Although I'm not exactly sure where the value for "god" could be inserted into any formulas to arrive at a meaningful answer...
http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/10/1953/S...
part of the most recent antiscience history is of the GOP alliance between the rich fossil fuel corporations and individuals, and the fundie Christians as put together by Tom Delay. Greed was wed to fundie Christianity, and they got along very well - and still do. Of course there are a few environmentally friendly evangelicals who deserve great credit, and a few stewardship type Christians who are of the more moderate (and quiet( variety.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#107688 Jun 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Do whut?

I'm not sure what you mean. Pride in what? And what is it standing in the way of? Kolob? A new set of undies with runes on them? Membership to an overtly racist and homophobic organization that will demand 10% of my money as well as my intellectual integrity?
Pride in your own opinions separates you from God.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#107689 Jun 29, 2013
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Hehehee....plus the fact that you are on the West Coast.
You could go to bed at midnight and still be up 3 hours later than most of the country.
BTW, I enjoy your posts. You are a knowledgable kitty.
Thank you. I enjoy how you make some of the morons' heads explode so easily, almost poetic.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#107690 Jun 29, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>So? Where does your slippery slope fallacy stop slipping?

I assume you are old. Were you concerned when it became universally legal for blacks to marry whites? Oh, next thing you know Mexicans will want to marry Kentuckians!

If polygamists, of which there probably aren't that many, want to pursue their case then let them pursue it. If their case is compelling then guess what? We'll allow polygamy at some point. If their case fails the test then we won't.

You can't freeze-frame society at the moment when Ward Cleaver walks in the door and supper is on the table. It doesn't work that way.
Then next is incest. Are you ok with that? Father marrying daughter and having children together, etc.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#107691 Jun 29, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not 100% true. Some animals kill for fun
I suppose asking for evidence of this is too much to ask. As of yet this has never been witnessed, nor documented, as far as I know.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How is it that sexuality must be determined by genes?
That's the puzzle, which specific chemicals produced by the DNA are responsible for the development of sexual attraction has yet to be determined. It is something hardwired into the brain, not something you can change, that has been demonstrated by various studies.

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