Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Breaking the spell ”

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#107016
Jun 16, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
In some cases you have to do your part first. Which would be to read it, then ask if it is true.
Would you expect an atheist to accept the Bible as truth before they read it?
If you read a book and it convinces you it is true, then of course the answers your brain supplies is going to affirm this belief. You might thing a ghost is speaking to you, but it clearly just your own brain doing what it does.....it thinks.
This is why people who live in the middle east read the Koran and believe it. Their peers all believe and insist they believe, just as you do. Humans tend to follow their peers.
Look at a world map of religion and this stands out clearly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prevailing_...

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

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#107017
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Happy Fathers Day one and all....

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9...

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107018
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems that we have 2 powers working in our human nature.
We are able to discern right from wrong.There is something within us that would have us do that which is right,but,there is also a need to fulfill the selfish, illegal and immoral thoughts and desires that control our human nature and we do that which we know we shouldn't and don't want to do
In the process we device treacherous schemes in order to fulfill those needs,that we know,will hurt others,including those we claim to love .
We do not commit those acts out of ignorance,they are intentionally committed in order to satisfy that which we want.
We do this in secret,hoping we will not be found out.
When we achieve our objective,we have a feeling of accomplishment,not remorse.If confronted with our immoral or illegal act,we deny,we do not own up to them.
Those are facts,not figments of my imagination.
Watch the news,read the paper and look around you.
We judge others by their outward appearance,only to find out we have been deceived.
But also,we deceive others,by pretending to be,that which we are not...
You say that"We must use our brains for the understanding of why doing bad ultimately is not conducive to our happiness in the long run. Our short term pleasure seeking often makes us forget the long term happiness requirements."
That is precisely what we are unable to do and our actions confirm that.
Whether rich or poor,highly or of low intelligence,private or public sector or individuals in general,we are all afflicted by the same condition.
Those who absurdly claim they have never done anything to be ashamed of,are arrogant fools who are attempting to hide the many imperfections in their personalities which they are unable to face.
The only one in our history who has provided us with a solution to correct our defective human nature is Jesus Christ.
Those who have earnestly put his teachings into practice have found HIM to be true.
So,this idea that if one seeks forgiveness from whom he has offended will keep the offender from committing that act again,is not validated by the way we act.
In the first place,it's contrary to human nature,people do not like to admit they are wrong...
More importantly,some of the illegal and immoral acts we commit,we would not admit to having committed them,let alone seek forgiveness from those we offended.
Need I cite any examples of such?
Can a leopard change his spots?
If you feel pleasure from doing another person wrong, then you might be psychopathic. Their are more psychopaths in society than you might think.
People keep transgressions secret due to likely consequences. People deny guilt due to likely consequences. Testimonies show most feel burden over pleasure in these cases. Again, if you are psychopathic, these rules of thumb do not apply.

Many do wrong things in some hope of advancing themselves. This is one reason for the instinctive urges. But if one uses his conscious thought well, he should understand in the long run, happiness is not won by doing wrong.

I think the riches one might get by doing wrong does not ultimately make him happy. Philosophies like this needs to be taught and passed on. This is what humans do with their large brains.

Jesus may have tried to pass on some good philosophies. Problem is, when you feel they are all perfect, you run into problems.

BTW, most believers of Jesus do not always do good either. It is no magic recipe to be a good person. And unfortunately it sometimes makes you do wrong, in my opinion. Case in point, discriminating upon others.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107019
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

You say that"We must use our brains for the understanding of why doing bad ultimately is not conducive to our happiness in the long run. Our short term pleasure seeking often makes us forget the long term happiness requirements."
That is precisely what we are unable to do and our actions confirm that.
We are able to do this, but some do not try to do this. Understanding our instincts in a scientific manner helps one to control some of the urges to satisfy short term pleasures.
Understanding long term pleasure requires some forgetting of sort term pleasures is critical.
Understanding long term pleasures can be more fulfilling than a few short term pleasures is critical.
Understanding that long term pleasures gives one a deeper and more pleasurable sense of being is critical.
None of these require belief in a god. It only requires an understanding of our mind.

I think promises of an afterlife can motivate someone to a point to do good for long term pleasures, but it so often is such a far off distant reward, it is to hard for most to keep in mind for motivation.
My philosophy gives a person rewards in this life, in a relatively shorter term. This makes it easier to follow.

It is just easier to follow and is less likely to have the negatives of religion. Being easier to follow makes it more likely to be followed.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107020
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
.
The only one in our history who has provided us with a solution to correct our defective human nature is Jesus Christ.
?
False. Many philosophers have provides us with solutions to correct our instinctive human nature.
Thinking only one man has done this is more of a problem than a solution.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107021
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

Those who absurdly claim they have never done anything to be ashamed of,are arrogant fools who are attempting to hide the many imperfections in their personalities which they are unable to face.
?
Do you actually know someone who claims to have never done anything wrong? I sure have not, and do not expect to ever meet such a person.

Some people do lie to themselves about their wrongdoings though. Why? It is because it alleviates guilt. As I have been saying, guilt is the instinctive emotion that keeps us in check to a point. But yes, sometimes this can be somewhat override by self deception.
But unless on is a psychopath, he is likely unable to fully deceive himself of all guilt.
This burden of guilt is what prevents full long term happiness.
It will nag at you.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107022
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

So,this idea that if one seeks forgiveness from whom he has offended will keep the offender from committing that act again,is not validated by the way we act.
?
It HELPS to keep one from offending. Nothing is a magic bullet, as I keep saying, but you clearly do not note.

You keep saying "we" but if one is not using this philosophy, you cannot claim it effective or none effective in your life.

I have used the philosophy of god and Jesus and found it to be less effective than the philosophies I speak of and now follow.

Do you even know anyone that is using my philosophy?

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107023
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

In the first place,it's contrary to human nature,people do not like to admit they are wrong...
More importantly,some of the illegal and immoral acts we commit,we would not admit to having committed them,let alone seek forgiveness from those we offended.
Need I cite any examples of such?
Can a leopard change his spots?
Our short term happiness instinct is to keep wrongdoings a secret. But I would hope you are old enough or mature enough to have learned, admitting wrongdoings frees your guilt burden and gives one much pleasure.
I have learned this, and it drives my life for good. I hope you learn this one day and give it a try, if you do not already secretly know this but are just afraid to admit it.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107024
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

Those who have earnestly put his teachings into practice have found HIM to be true.
Well Muslims would say the same of Mohammed. It might just seem good to you, but is it really good for others?
I say it is not good for those you discriminate against. It is not good for science.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107025
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems that we have 2 powers working in our human nature.
We are able to discern right from wrong.There is something within us that would have us do that which is right,but,there is also a need to fulfill the selfish, illegal and immoral thoughts and desires that control our human nature and we do that which we know we shouldn't and don't want to do
And these can be attributed to instincts, not a god or devil.
But understanding these instincts with the help of science enables us to better control them and put them to use for overall good.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107026
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
So,when you commit a selfish,illegal or immoral act,which you know will hurt the recepient of that act and possibly others,you go ahead and do it anyway,and are able to live with yourself,because you feel guilty,after the fact.
If you knew it was wrong and people were going to be hurt,Why did you do it in the first place?
What does that make you?
If I do wrong, it is more likely I did not think of the long term consequences first or I dismissed them in a reckless manner.
Guilt is not exactly what I would consider "living with myself". It is not living with happiness.

Humans are not a perfect being. We will do things wrong. We did not need a god or Jesus to tell us this simple fact.
But we can learn how to try and better ourselves.

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107027
Jun 16, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Legality is the law, morals are subjective and not bound to anything, end of story. Ethics are better than morals because they evolve and get refined with each generation, but they are still very subjective. I have no broken any laws, and I have done nothing to feel guilty about.
I find it very hard to believe you have never done anything in which to feel guilty about.
Have you never hurt someones feelings and felt guilt for doing so?
I am not saying you feel guilty to this day for such things, but I would think the lessons you learned of guilt keep you from repeatedly hurting peoples feelings that you care about.

Now some people might need their feelings hurt a bit for some long term lessons to be taught. Anyone with kids, knows this.
ProvenScience

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#107028
Jun 16, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post is pure gibberish.
A sound infrastructure does not facilitate an economy? The DOT needs to pay sales tax for gasoline to help pay for roads? Schools need to pay property taxes to help pay for education? WTF, lady? Sequestering isn't bad enough on its own? Put down the tea cup and back away....
Clearly, you have no concept about the matter, but I'll toss you a bone.
Salaries make up a large portion of the budgets, so all of those "givverment" worker paychecks are paying back the "givverment" in property, service and sales taxes, fees, etc. WITHOUT any tax exemptions - the same as every other marketplace consumer.
Goods which are purchased from vendors by tax dollars also pay for private worker salaries and company incomes, which in turn provide taxes through spending and operations.
What part of SALES on purchases tax did you skip over reading?

And it would all go right back into supporting that what you write of.

Not that complicated!

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107029
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Well,according to you,you have a set of self imposed standards whereby,according to you,you have never done anything for which you need feel ashamed....LOL
You are either perfect or your standards are lower than a snakes belly...
Reminds me of Chubby Checker and The Limbo Rock;
How low can you go....
Yiagio,after being accused of being a pedophile by Quantummist,now wants to abolish the 10 commandments.
If he were succesful,then pedophilia would be considered acceptable behaviour.
Duquette would have us behave as Apes,whom,according to him,when they commit an immoral or illegal act,seek forgiveness from the victim by groomimg him or her.
That is beautiful.
Now,one would have complete freedom to break into someone's house,rape and pillage and simply come back to the victim,groom him,brush his teeth,comb his hair and all is forgotten.
But ,then,What could you expect from those who believe that we are part of the banana and cockroach family,as recently stated by Quantummist.
Who says all if forgotten due to grooming? You are adding to my claims.
Just because one seeks forgiveness does not mean forgiveness should be automatically granted. BTW, this is what your religious doctrine holds. Just ask old god for forgiveness and boom, you are cleansed. No need to really even try to make amends with the transgressed.
Sometimes it takes reparations to make for forgiveness. Sometimes it is never granted. This is burdensome and that burden is a reminder to not repeat the offense.
ProvenScience

London, KY

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#107030
Jun 16, 2013
 
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it has spiraled down hill since the stopped letting the high school kids go outside for a smoke break.... And it's went down hill Bell Bottoms stopped being worn....
Actually it's went down hill since everything has become so dependent on technology to "tell them what to think".

Just watch 8 of ten cashiers that need to make change- when they computer screens bweaks down.

The other two might still be able to handle it-especially the ones ya saw outside on a quick smoke/eat break...that still comprehend 15 minutes is fifteen minutes--not 16, or 17 or twenty....

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107031
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not perfect before I knew Christ,nor am I perfect now.
The point being made is that human nature is defective and we,of our own volition, are unable to change that.
When we do something wrong,we know beforehand that it is wrong,but we do it anyway in order to satisfy those immoral desires that are contained in our human nature.
And when we do that which we know to bw wrong,we justify that behaviour in order to satisfy those desires,but we condem that same type of behaviour in others...
That is a fact and anyone denying that fact is a liar and is attempting to absolve himself for his or her corrupt nature.
The point being that,mankind,on his own,has shown a complete inability to change human nature.
The only one who has provided us with a solution to that problem is Jesus Christ.
Those who have earnestly tested Him,have found Him to be true.
Those who deny Him are still searching for excuses for their behaviour and seek to provide us with nonsensical solutions to that problem...
Humans are going to do wrong, no matter if they are religious or not. So the solution in which you claim does nothing but absolve your transgressions in your mind without actually doing anything to give reparations to the transgressed.

This system of forgiveness Christianity holds can be a recipe for even more wrongdoing, as the offender can get instant relief of guilt.
ProvenScience

London, KY

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#107032
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>If churches actually volunteered as much as they claim, their would be no need for help from the government.
Let's be real. All those givverment hands held out workers, working for fwee?

(ya right-nice try though lol)

“Breaking the spell ”

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#107033
Jun 16, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

The point being that,mankind,on his own,has shown a complete inability to change human nature.
Change human nature? How about just try and control human nature with some good understanding of human nature and some good philosophy?
Hard to control what you do not understand. Science is good for understanding.

What makes no sense to me is, why would a god make men with such a nature in the first place?
ProvenScience

London, KY

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#107034
Jun 16, 2013
 
Quantummist wrote:
Happy Fathers Day one and all....here is another dark age sexist picture
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9...
Don't make me put a slapping a worm on the hook at the end of the string on the pole fishing picture......
ProvenScience

London, KY

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#107035
Jun 16, 2013
 
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>False. Many philosophers have provides us with solutions to correct our instinctive human nature.
Thinking only one man has done this is more of a problem than a solution.
and disregarding any one in particular for really stupid reasons is more of a problem than a solution too.

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