Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,867

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#104614 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you are talking to me, and asking my opinion on things, so yes, this particular answer was about me and how I feel.
Your answer showed extreme selfishness.
Now if you could only explain why gay marriage is going to take something away from you I will then understand.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#104615 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That you are wrong? You're correct here, it isn't my fault
Stop being squeamish. Before Protestantism, before Catholicism, before Judaism, even before Hinduism, there were tribal leaders who interpreted the mysteries and the supernatural. Deal with it.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#104616 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Then it should not be hard to post one, yet you failed to produce a single one.
Let me ask again, show us a scripture that shows women cannot hold the priesthood. You claimed Jesus said this, but now show Jesus never said this in the bible. Ok, so where does it say in the bible what I asked? Can you produce or keep running by diverting until I forget the question?
The apologists claim that women shouldn't be allowed to hold priest status because Jesus didn't have a woman apostle (according to the Councils of Constantine, anyway). He also didn't have any pets, so by that logic, it's time to put down Fido and Fluffy.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#104617 May 24, 2013
Wings of a Dove wrote:
<quoted text> I never have felt the presence of a shaman in my life. I do the Living God. Yes I do get it. Smart enough to know what's real and what isn't. I guess it's your word against mine. I'd like to ask you something. If we all initially came from some big bang, why are we like snowflakes. Shouldn't we all all have the same DNA/genetic make up? But..you cannot answer this because in all honesty no one knows what really happened. That is a fact. No human on earth can go back whether billions (as some claim) or thousands of years (as others claim) and tell the story beginning to end. That info does not exist. Studies and findings yes, theories yes. All the story?..no. Still searching for a way to prove their theory and will still be at it when they come face to face with the truth. It would take one who was there in the beginning to tell it all. Right? I know Him. And that's what I believe...Nite.
You equate a shaman to a god and state that DNA came from the Big Bang, so obviously you are NOT smart enough to get it.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104618 May 24, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>If a religious person explains science in a rational manner, there isn't any issue. It's when they get it bass ackward because they 1) are manipulative 2) have been manipulated or 3) just palin (LOL! accidentally appropriate typo, there) don't know what they are talking about that the issues become heated.
I don't care about your "priesthood." You can investigate the anthropological origins of religion for yourself, as you dare. I've found that the topic is somewhat interesting and relevant to the thread, since it is also closely related to the origins of the arts.
Why would I care what atheists think about the origins of religion? They are guessing at anything (beyond survival) that a man was thinking before recorded history.
ProvenScience

London, KY

#104619 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I care what atheists think about the origins of religion? They are guessing at anything (beyond survival) that a man was thinking before recorded history.
Science often does seem to at least have SOME logical explanations about religious practices though.
For example-
levitation (l&#277;v&#300;t&# 257;´sh&#601;n), the raising of a human or other body in the air without mechanical aid. The idea is ancient; holy men, both pagan and Christian, were reputed to have had the power of becoming light at will and of moving through the air. It is a favorite manifestation in séances. It is also a popular conjuring trick, the illusion being produced by clever mechanical or lighting arrangements or other means.
"levitation." The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed.. 2013. Encyclopedia.com . 24 May. 2013 < http://www.encyclopedia.com >.
or
Levitation
The rising of physical objects, tables, pianos, etc., or of human beings into the air, contrary to the known laws of gravitation and without any visible agency. More often the term is used in a restricted sense and refers to the levitation of the human body. As such, the phenomenon was reported from ancient times. Instances of transportation, or teleportation, which is levitation in its highest form, are recorded both in the Jewish Bible and the Christian New Testament, illustrated, for example, by Jesus' walking on the water, a feat reportedly accomplished by many of the saints.
The power was claimed by wizards of many primitive tribes, by mystics in the East, and it has been repeatedly claimed, in less sensational degrees, by several modern Spiritualist mediums. The mediums offered themselves as evidence to science that the miracles of rising in the air recorded in the life of saints, ecstatics, witches, and victims of demoniac possession might rest on a solid !!!!! BASIS of FACT !!!!!
"Levitation." Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology. 2001. Encyclopedia.com . 24 May. 2013 < http://www.encyclopedia.com >.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#104620 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I care what atheists think about the origins of religion? They are guessing at anything (beyond survival) that a man was thinking before recorded history.
It has nothing at all to do with atheism. Like it or not, man was living in established civilizations long before Genesis was written.
I'm sorry your feelings are challenged by the concept that there were "primitive" humans living in tribes before there were "enlightened by the Alpha and Omega, Jehovah, AKA Yahweh, the one true God of Israel" humans living in tribes.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104621 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I asked for the scripture you claimed Jesus spoke of only men holding the priesthood. You failed to supply the answer.

You made the claim of marriage, now prove it. I think marriage came long before written history. Marriage is but a commitment.
In our society, government regulates this commitment and gives many benefits for that commitment. Religion fights that process due to bigotry. The same sort of bigotry that your church is well known for with black persons and women. Your church fought for prop eight and this cause many to not have the benefits of equality in our society.

I cannot remember every question I ask you. You run for days from so many that eventually I forget the question. Can you give me a hint on the leader question? How long ago did I ask the question?
I told you it was in D&C. Chapter 84 shoes the oath of the Priesthood. He speaks of how the Priesthood is passed from Father to son, and He tells us it was for the sons of Moses. Here is an excerpt:

For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

You should read the whole chapter.

The origins of marriage predate recorded history, so my only source is the Bible. Other religions tell a similar story of the origin.
The only other speculation of origin is for a man to feel paternal rights to his own children and access to sexual relations with the same female. Usually they paid a bride price to her father for this. That doesn't sound much like marriage to me, but maybe it was for that type of society.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#104622 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I care what atheists think about the origins of religion? They are guessing at anything (beyond survival) that a man was thinking before recorded history.
Thus your claim that marriage did not take place before written history is just a guess.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104623 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You support what your church does as far as bigotry to women. So if this is the part, then I stand by that accusation until you show you are not supporting that bigotry and discrimination. You are for this discrimination, correct? If so, do not whine about being called a bigot. Don't like being called a bigot? Then maybe stop supporting discrimination.
It was pointed out to you that not allowing women high ranking jobs is discrimination. Just because you have a different view about it for jobs outside your church does not get you off the hook. If you discriminate anywhere, you discriminate.

Does it upset me when people discriminate? Yes, and this is yet another reason I oppose your religion, not because I am secretly searching for your god.
It is very clear to me a just god would not be a bigot. Thus your god must be myth.
Women hold an equally important role in our church. Most would argue that it is more important. Their roles are different than men's roles. Neither is greater than the other. Sorry, but no discrimination here.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104624 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Keep fighting gay marriage and keep seeing us protest your god and call it out as for being the myth that it is.

You are complaining about abortions. Are you going to tell us that your church does not, honestly?
Again, I have nothing against civil unions. What is the difference between marriage and a civil union to you?

Where has the LDS church been complaining about abortion?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#104625 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I care what atheists think about the origins of religion? They are guessing at anything (beyond survival) that a man was thinking before recorded history.
Well our guesses are not biased upon what we believe is infallible ancient claims. We look at all information and make educated guesses that stand to reason and logic bases on the information.
btw their was much written history on religion before yours was invented.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104626 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Did you have a point?
Your church states that if one is not married in the Mormon church, the couple will not be together in heaven. So why are you not protesting all marriage outside your church?
Will allowing homosexuals to marry cause your beliefs to change? If not, then it is not changing anything for your marriage. Thus your complaints about gay marriage are petty.
My point was to show you the church's stance on marriage and the family.

Marriage is a great thing, whether in the temple or not. The difference is: not in the temple means til death do you part. They even say that in the marriage ceremony. Why do you think they do? They knew to acknowledge that they didn't have the sealing powers to bind on earth and in heaven as described in the New Testament.

I don't fight gay marriage for my own marriage, but for the integrity of God's plan and the family unit. Petty to you, not to me.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#104627 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Women hold an equally important role in our church. Most would argue that it is more important. Their roles are different than men's roles. Neither is greater than the other. Sorry, but no discrimination here.
"Equally important"? So just what is equal to the priesthood? What is equal to your prophet? What role do women of your church hold that "most" consider "more" important?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104628 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry I do not know all the lingo of your religion. I now see that "revelation" does not mean it is in the bible, but just some claim by one of your fallible prophets.
So one of your fallible prophets claimed Jesus personally told him to discriminate against women and he had a few buddies who also heard Jesus say this? I would love for this prophet to have described what Jesus really looked like. It might have cleared up some of that race discrimination your church participated in for over a hundred years due to a fallible prophet and his claims.
All prophets are fallible. They are men. They make errors just like everyone else. They sin just like everyone else (though probably much less). This is what set Jesus apart. He never sinned, He wasn't fallible. This is why I'm not muslim.

He did describe what Jesus looked like. And God the Father as well.
Google is a click away. You should educate yourself on this religion before trying to tell a member of it what they believe.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104629 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Then it should not be hard to post one, yet you failed to produce a single one.
Let me ask again, show us a scripture that shows women cannot hold the priesthood. You claimed Jesus said this, but now show Jesus never said this in the bible. Ok, so where does it say in the bible what I asked? Can you produce or keep running by diverting until I forget the question?
I posted one part that shows this. Doctrine and Covenants 84.

I'm not sure that the Bible comes out and says that women can't hold the priesthood in those exact words, but certainly it speaks of the priesthood being passed down from father to son, and even from man to man. Also, every prophet, apostle, and levitical priest mentioned in the Bible is male.

Please tell me if you require further information as to assure you I am not running from the question.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#104630 May 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I have nothing against civil unions. What is the difference between marriage and a civil union to you?
Where has the LDS church been complaining about abortion?
again, do you deny the church complains about abortion?

Many complain civil unions do not get equal benefits. Why should they call it something other than marriage? It is a marriage by definition, so seems your complaint is pure superstition with zero reasons given.
Again I ask, in what way does gay marriage hurt you or your marriage?
Keep running from this question.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104631 May 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Your answer showed extreme selfishness.
Now if you could only explain why gay marriage is going to take something away from you I will then understand.
I am concerned for others in this case, not myself. Whatever the world does outside my front door will not affect me in this matter. However, the overall degradation of society in general affects the children today, and in the future. I do what I can to protect the family unit. Not just this topic, but others as well. I think our church does well at promoting strong families. I think if more people practiced keeping the Sabbath Day holy by doing the Lord's work and spending time with family, families would be stronger. I think if more families put their distractions away and ate supper together, it would strengthen families. I think if more families practiced my church's Family Home Evening program once a week, it would strengthen familes. If fathers and mothers treated each other with respect as well as their children, that example of love and kindness would transfer to children.

Yeah, how selfish of me

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104632 May 24, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop being squeamish. Before Protestantism, before Catholicism, before Judaism, even before Hinduism, there were tribal leaders who interpreted the mysteries and the supernatural. Deal with it.
How do you know what was before the religions that claim to be in existence since the beginning of mankind? I know the Bible claims this, and so does Hinduism.

You don't

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104633 May 24, 2013
ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
Science often does seem to at least have SOME logical explanations about religious practices though.
For example-
levitation (l&#277;v&#300;t&# 257;´sh&#601;n), the raising of a human or other body in the air without mechanical aid. The idea is ancient; holy men, both pagan and Christian, were reputed to have had the power of becoming light at will and of moving through the air. It is a favorite manifestation in séances. It is also a popular conjuring trick, the illusion being produced by clever mechanical or lighting arrangements or other means.
"levitation." The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed.. 2013. Encyclopedia.com . 24 May. 2013 < http://www.encyclopedia.com >.
or
Levitation
The rising of physical objects, tables, pianos, etc., or of human beings into the air, contrary to the known laws of gravitation and without any visible agency. More often the term is used in a restricted sense and refers to the levitation of the human body. As such, the phenomenon was reported from ancient times. Instances of transportation, or teleportation, which is levitation in its highest form, are recorded both in the Jewish Bible and the Christian New Testament, illustrated, for example, by Jesus' walking on the water, a feat reportedly accomplished by many of the saints.
The power was claimed by wizards of many primitive tribes, by mystics in the East, and it has been repeatedly claimed, in less sensational degrees, by several modern Spiritualist mediums. The mediums offered themselves as evidence to science that the miracles of rising in the air recorded in the life of saints, ecstatics, witches, and victims of demoniac possession might rest on a solid !!!!! BASIS of FACT !!!!!
"Levitation." Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology. 2001. Encyclopedia.com . 24 May. 2013 < http://www.encyclopedia.com >.
I agree there are similarities in all belief systems, and even claims like these. Interesting topic.

But he is claiming to know the origins of religions. Neither the religious or the non-religious can prove this.

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