Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#104220
May 20, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Abstinence vs. safe sex? Reality check.
People can't even understand "Don't drink and drive, wear your seat belt, don't speed, use your turn signals, leave your cellphone alone, etc., etc." and the religious compliment of society blames young adults for being a jumbled mess of hormones.
lol Oh the people understand the consequences of their actions ,they just choose to ignore it. For the second part, explain in your opinion how the religious compliment of society blames young adults for being a jumbled mess of hormones?

“See how you are?”

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#104221
May 20, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Still, you can't blame the weak for failure to follow good rules.
That's the f'ing TWILIGHT ZONE.
Blame is a reaction, not a solution. Do you blame someone for kiting a check to feed their children or pay rent? Society says yes. Do you prosecute "too big to fail" bankers? Society says no.

“See how you are?”

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#104222
May 20, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I honestly don't think he's saying to teach abstinence only, but to merely recommend it as the best method. You cannot deny that abstinence is pretty much a surefire method to avoid pregnancy, for those willing to follow it.
I understand that. Unlike DW, many moralists object to the teaching of preventative methods and protections.
Orlando public schools built a shiny new high rise for their offices. The school board paid $50,000 for an 'abstinence only' course out of Texas and paid the company's spokesperson's way to make a presentation to the board. The course stressed 2 things - the "Chastity Pledge" for the girls and graphic presentations of STDs and abortions. It did not mention any form of birth control. The VERY FIRST TIME the pristine auditorium was used in this "Educational Leadership Center", her speech revolved around the phrase "Education is not the answer."
Does that kind of program work? What is the percentage of married couples who have had premarital sex?

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

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#104223
May 20, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
You know I wasn't suggesting Mike attends church. Period
Nor was I. You may want to re-read.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
My answer answered all three of your questions.
Not really. If it did, I would not ask for further information.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
If the mother is in danger of dying, then the child would have no mother to nurture the child. Situations are different, so even then the child could still be reared by the Father and day care while he is at work, for example. But that won't work for every one. So I think if it is deemed that the mother could die, abortion should be an option.
This is what I thought you meant.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
If it is thought that the child will suffer and not live long, it still isn't a reason to kill him/her in my opinion. I know families that have been through this very thing and are so grateful that they got to know that child and love him. They value that time in their lives as the greatest time yet.
This is consistent with what you stated, but as I indicated, things are more complex than that first simple answer could adequately address.

Your scenario is standard fare, but standard fare has always been a bit confusing to me. Self awareness is not a thing that occurs in almost all cases like this. There is almost no chance of a real life, yet there is almost complete chance of suffering. This is not a thing that could ever be for the benefit of the defective, dying child. It is for the benefit of the parents alone. To me, this is wrong. It seems simply selfish on their part. I recognize the negatives in aborting due to mild birth defects, but I don't know of any way to justify allowing a child to be born if it is almost certainly going to suffer. There is a wide swath of grey area in these types of issues, but I think that people who perform abortions due to significant defects are easily as justified as those who do not.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
And I know some people that were thought to have disabilities that ended up being fine and lead happy, productive lives. And they talk publicly about how the doctor tried to get their parents to abort the pregnancy.
This is true. And there are plenty of cases of parents being notified of severe defects, parents refusing to believe, and the child living for a few excruciating hours.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a woman (Gianna Jesson) that everyone should listen to. Google her sometime and listen to her talk about abortion.
I am aware of her. She's a good example of why late term/saline is stupid and horrible. But I wouldn't go much further than that.

So, now you've been fairly specific on most. But some are still not addressed to the degree that I understand your position:
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it ever fine to terminate a pregnancy after an egg has been fertilized, in what cases, and why?
In this case, I'm not speaking of overt abortion. I'm speaking of things that are considered birth control that still accomplish the same thing... preventing an already fertilized egg from being born. Please be specific about which cases you consider it OK/not OK.
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the body, life, and livelihood of a pregnant rape victim more or less important than a cluster of a few hundred cells sitting in her uterine wall?
Recognizing that rape can result in pregnancy (unwanted by both parties, one had no choice), permanent body changes for the victim, stigma of being a young single mother for the victim, major setbacks in the life of the victim, and the passing on of the genes of a complete waste of life... do you agree that from the second the egg is fertilized forward, there should be no action taken to stop the pregnancy?

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#104224
May 20, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Medications to regulate the hormonal balance of the mother, most often, sometimes more drastic medications or procedures though rarely.

As to the rest, so you are willing to say that you have more of a right to oppose the will of your god (should it exist) or nature than the woman does? Their reasons are not what's at stake here, they have to answer for those themselves regardless of what you believe or do not believe, regret in such a matter can be the equivalent of "hell." What is at stake is, are you willing to take the responsibility for the decision all on your own and absolve them of any responsibility at all? If not, then outlawing it is a bad choice for everyone.
I have no idea what you are asking here. Can you reword this? It doesn't look familiar to me at all so I do not think this is what I said at all

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#104225
May 20, 2013
 
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
lol Oh the people understand the consequences of their actions ,they just choose to ignore it. For the second part, explain in your opinion how the religious compliment of society blames young adults for being a jumbled mess of hormones?
Old enough to know better and too young to care - is that a prosecution or a defense? Nevermind.
I was corresponding with do whut. Be advised that if I find someone to be too whacked to follow the conversation rationally, I might not respond. Don't take it personally.

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#104226
May 20, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I am not sure "say what" wants as he is so vague in most of his answers.
His last post sounds as if he expects some Utopian world that needs no birth control.

It may not bother you that he and his religion are not pro active on contraception, but I am.
For one, I see so many children being raised, or more accurately, not raised by parents that planed or are ready for children.

Teaching can consist if both but religion often does not speak of birth control due to it blocking nature in an artificial manner.
Many times this leaves young persons that are striving for abstinence but fail, then end up pregnant with an unwanted child due to lack of contraceptive education.
I'm not saying that contraceptives should not be used or taught to youth. I'm saying it isn't the responsibility of a church to be the teacher.

Abstinence is absolutely the best method of contraception. And if you took abortion off the menu of answers for irresponsible teen behavior, more would practice it. I doubt it would reduce sexual activity, but it would certainly raise that awareness that they will be forced to deal with the consequences (something not taught to youth as much as it should be).
But you keep banking on contraceptives as if it is the silver bullet. Did you see the statistic on the percentage of abortions that occurred that claim they USED contraceptives and they didn't work?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

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#104227
May 20, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea what you are asking here. Can you reword this? It doesn't look familiar to me at all so I do not think this is what I said at all
No, I cannot reword, and if you are looking for a cookie cutter argument, you certainly do not want to deal with me. It's simple, we are already opposing nature, thus if there is a god the will of that god, by increasing the number of pregnancies born alive by a huge number, not a small number, but a lot. So is it better to continue to deny the natural course of things, or to give the responsibility to the woman to determine what is right in this matter? Either way, you or she is taking fate in their hands, if you take the fate in your hand, ban abortions, then you are also taking responsibility for the outcome, complete responsibility, as a human being, and in doing so, more than likely also opposing the will of nature, the will of your own god that you profess to believing in.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#104228
May 20, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Old enough to know better and too young to care - is that a prosecution or a defense? Nevermind.
I was corresponding with do whut. Be advised that if I find someone to be too whacked to follow the conversation rationally, I might not respond. Don't take it personally.
In other words you have no answer for your statement. Nice Dodge!

I don't take it personal, I take it as I see it...you say sh$t you can't back up with proof! If you can prove it then by all means , DO SO .
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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It's quite amusing that you took the time to type all that sh$t and then put you don't respond to whacked person..YET refuse to simply answer that question!

You are the Whacked One!

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

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#104230
May 20, 2013
 
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
you say sh$t you can't back up with proof! If you can prove it then by all means , DO SO .
Which is way different than when you say God exists...

Again, the level of irony is over 9000. I've almost decided that you are a troll trying to make all Christians look bad by association.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

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#104231
May 20, 2013
 
curious wrote:
<quoted text>

Seems to me ,he is strongly implying that,by intentionally refusing to accept any supernatural evidence,that Science ,by it's nature,can not allow nor will it consider any evidence that is not materialistic in nature.,regardless of how compelling that evidence might be.
On the other hand,it will permit unsubstantiated evidence,in spite of the patent absurdity of some of it's constructs and in spite of it's many failures.
Well, this particular scientist is not speaking for all of science. But keep in mind he IS an evolutionary biologist. He not only accepts that evolution is a fact, but that the theory explaining it is valid. He is *not* on your side here.

That being said, he does hold a view that is in opposition to many other scientists. For example, he and Richard Dawkins disagree sharply on some key issues about evolution.

But they are both evolutionary biologists. Scientists *can* disagree.

There is no such thing as evidence of the supernatural. The supernatural is by definition not evidence-based. It is fantasy, myth, and superstition. If there was actual evidence for it we would call it natural, not supernatural. If you have evidence, show it. You could become famous overnight.

I mean...you believe in magic. You want to criticize actual science and yet you offer nothing in the way of explaining your magical creation myth.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#104232
May 20, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying that contraceptives should not be used or taught to youth. I'm saying it isn't the responsibility of a church to be the teacher.
Abstinence is absolutely the best method of contraception. And if you took abortion off the menu of answers for irresponsible teen behavior, more would practice it. I doubt it would reduce sexual activity, but it would certainly raise that awareness that they will be forced to deal with the consequences (something not taught to youth as much as it should be).
But you keep banking on contraceptives as if it is the silver bullet. Did you see the statistic on the percentage of abortions that occurred that claim they USED contraceptives and they didn't work?
Wrong.

Humans have sex drive. Teenagers have TONS of sex drive. They are going to f*ck.

Taking abortion off the menu is a recipe for unwanted babies.

You gonna raise 'em? Or just baptize them after they die?
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#104233
May 20, 2013
 

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_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is way different than when you say God exists...
Again, the level of irony is over 9000. I've almost decided that you are a troll trying to make all Christians look bad by association.
Show me ONE POST where I have said God Exists, Also show me where I have stated I'm a Christian.

Funny how the Crockhead can't answer my simple question. So Umm how about you answer it since you are putting your 2 cents worth on this post.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#104234
May 20, 2013
 

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Here ya go, I'll help you out... My very first post is #104066. In all my posts show me where I posted god exists... show me where I've stated my beliefs. I'll wait till you play catch up
Jesus

Glasgow, KY

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#104235
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The bible is a joke. Let science run our nation

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#104236
May 20, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>That's the f'ing TWILIGHT ZONE.
Blame is a reaction, not a solution. Do you blame someone for kiting a check to feed their children or pay rent? Society says yes. Do you prosecute "too big to fail" bankers? Society says no.
Wow I butchered that in my haste. I meant to say "can you blame". And I meant it sarcastic. Man LOL. I messed that all over. I need a mulligan.

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#104237
May 20, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>I understand that. Unlike DW, many moralists object to the teaching of preventative methods and protections.
Orlando public schools built a shiny new high rise for their offices. The school board paid $50,000 for an 'abstinence only' course out of Texas and paid the company's spokesperson's way to make a presentation to the board. The course stressed 2 things - the "Chastity Pledge" for the girls and graphic presentations of STDs and abortions. It did not mention any form of birth control. The VERY FIRST TIME the pristine auditorium was used in this "Educational Leadership Center", her speech revolved around the phrase "Education is not the answer."
Does that kind of program work? What is the percentage of married couples who have had premarital sex?
That sounds like a waste of money.
stuck in a lodi

Pikeville, KY

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#104238
May 20, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because I am rather bored and since I agreed with you twice may as well hit this with you.
The ethical implications of abortion work in so many directions, the definition of life is so inaccurate as well, and there are so many factors to determine if an abortion is necessary or not, to simply outlaw it would be taking any and all blame for yourself. But to leave it to the woman and her medical physician to decide makes them responsible for making the correct choice, and there are cases in which an abortion will save the life of the woman. Without medical science most fetuses never live, they are either stillborn or aborted naturally, often when the woman's body is at risk to carry to term it will abort the fetus as well. Medical science has made it so finding these cases is easy, but not until the natural abortion has been suppressed, thus placing the woman in danger. If your god was real, it's basically defying your god's own will at that point, if you want to put it all existential.
So the question is this, what gives you any more of a right to deny nature (or your god's will) than the woman?
This is a good post which I find interesting, thank you for sharing your views/opinions

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

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#104239
May 20, 2013
 
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me ONE POST where I have said God Exists, Also show me where I have stated I'm a Christian.
Funny how the Crockhead can't answer my simple question. So Umm how about you answer it since you are putting your 2 cents worth on this post.
Matthew 10:33, you scumbag hypocrite. You'd better be repenting and acknowledging that I am correct.

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