Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Breaking the spell ”

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#103124
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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Your distaste for my answers do not change that they are answers. I'm still giving you way more answers than you have me on one question alone.
I don't know when the first creator would have come about. Our God is the only one that we are supposed to be concerned with right now. Perhaps we can know this now, because we are promised that the mysteries of he kingdom can be known to us now. But I'm not there yet. Milk before meat. We will definitely know these things in the afterlife, but I'm striving to learn now.
You miss the point as usual.
My point was, if you demand a creator for all intelligent beings, then you have an infinite regress of intelligent creators, thus the logic you use fails to show one must have an intelligent creator to create an intelligent being.

I can see you fail to even try to put your logic to the test. You seem to just assume it makes sense.

Your god theory does not pass the logic test and has zero evidence.
This is why I do not believe their is a god.
You seem to expect me to forgo my logic and blindly believe.
Again my question is, if this is what you expect, then why do you not believe in Mohammed?

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#103125
May 10, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>This site has a nice discussion about the Book of Abraham:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon054.htm

My memory of this topic comes from a podcast I listened to several years ago. This article mentions some of those details.

For example, they found some of the scrolls in 1967. The LDS itself asked for them to be translated. This was going to be a HUGE proof of Joseph Smith's validity as a prophet.

However, the scrolls and the Book of Abraham are totally different. He was obviously making it up and had no idea how to actually read Egyptian hieroglyphs. The reason he could get away with it at the time was that nobody really knew how to read hieroglyphs at the time. It was a work in progress in the academic world to figure it out.

Now, this was a blow to the LDS. And naturally they rationalized it away, saying that these must not be the actual scrolls Smith used. They just happened to be the ones he didn't use (convenient). However, there are elements in these discovered scrolls that match notes in smith's journal. It is pretty clear he was in fact working from these documents.

The problem you face as a Mormon is that all the evidence screams Smith was fake. But your ENTIRE belief system is hinged on Smith being for real. So you have absolutely no choice but to assume he was for real and rationalize everything to fit that assumption.

And it is not just you. It is all faiths. If you start with an ultimate truth, such as God created everything in 6 literal days, then you are FORCED to rationalize the world into fitting that story. You can only be rational about evidence if it poses no threat. Other evidence must be wrong or interpreted in such a way as to bolster the faith.

This is why Christians can be so rational and logical about motors, computers, farming, and military strategy but when faced with evolution they turn into complete morons. Suddenly facts and logic don't make no sense no more and God did it.
I have been all over that site. There are so many inaccuracies and half-truths on that site that I discounted it years ago, before I even joined the church.

Since: Aug 10

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#103126
May 10, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You miss the point as usual.
My point was, if you demand a creator for all intelligent beings, then you have an infinite regress of intelligent creators, thus the logic you use fails to show one must have an intelligent creator to create an intelligent being.

I can see you fail to even try to put your logic to the test. You seem to just assume it makes sense.

Your god theory does not pass the logic test and has zero evidence.
This is why I do not believe their is a god.
You seem to expect me to forgo my logic and blindly believe.
Again my question is, if this is what you expect, then why do you not believe in Mohammed?
I don't see how my thought fails at all. How is it an infinite regress? Even humans have gotten smarter over time by learning from what others learned.

I do not believe in Mohammed because he was a false prophett.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103127
May 10, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Then we have nothing more to talk about. You have faith in something without evidence. You aren't interested in evidence.
I require evidence. I don't have any use for faith.
Good talking to you. Have a good life.
Bye
I have ,more than once,presented the evidence for my faith,based on my personal experiences.
I not only provided the evidence,but also,the method I used,as contained in Scriptures,in order to validate the accuracy of the evidence

The fact that you are unable to understand that evidence,or test it's accuracy,has led you to arbitrarily dismiss it,
Yet,unable to understand the evidence,you and others have tried to explain it.
My question has always been; How can you try to explain,that which you do not understand?

You call it" magic, being deceived by your mind,coincidences that may or may not occur" .
All these excuses are based on your opinions,in an attempt to justify your unbelief..

It is evident,that you and others are not seeking evidence,you are searching for the answer you want to hear in order to justify your beliefs.
In order for me to provide you with the answer you want to hear,I would have to lie,then,you would gladly accept my answer as valid.
I am unwilling and unable to provide you with a deceitful answer in order to please you.

If you don't get the answer you want to hear,you dismiss it as irrelevant and provide opinions that are based on your ignorance of the FACTS..
That being the case,you are right,we have nothing else to talk about

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

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#103128
May 10, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see how my thought fails at all. How is it an infinite regress? Even humans have gotten smarter over time by learning from what others learned.
I do not believe in Mohammed because he was a false prophett.
on what basis do you think Mohammed is a false prophet?
Do you know what "infinite regress" means?
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103129
May 10, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand far more than you give me credit for. I'm familiar with scripture, faith and doctrine and whether you believe it or not, I fully understand the "point" you repetitively try to make. I choose not to reinforce illusions, so if you find that my over looking, ignoring or confounding the irrelevant portions of posts is annoying, you might now know why.
PS Nice try.
That one may be familiar with what is written in Scripture,is not an indication that one understands the meaning contained in what Scripture teaches.

In order to claim to understand,requires more than merely reading.

You need to personaly put into practice what is being taught.
You also need to apply the criteria contained in Scriptures to make sure that your interpretation of Scriptures are correct.
I am assuming that the criteria included in Scripture is what you have in mind when you state that" I,meanig you, choose not to reinforce illusions"
If one does not follow the instructions,but instead follows their opinions and emotions,chances are very high,that you will arrive at the wrong conclusions,thereby,deceiving yourself into believing that you understand ,that which you do not.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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#103130
May 10, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>on what basis do you think Mohammed is a false prophet?
Do you know what "infinite regress" means?
I doubt it... He has no idea what "Evidence" means....
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103131
May 10, 2013
 

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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Are you telling me some people have thoughts and ideas, yet do not understand why they have them? Yes, our mind is on autopilot most of the time. None of this means a god is doing the driving. The brain does not need conscious thought in order to operate. Most animals have little conscious thought yet they their brain is doing a lot of work. Is this god?
Do you stick god into every gap you find?
1)Mike Duquette"]<quoted text>Are you telling me some people have thoughts and ideas, yet do not understand why they have them?

When I have stated the basis for my faith,based on actual results that I could not deny,I was ridiculed and mocked by the Atheists on this website.
If I remember correctly,you were included in that group.
I was told that my mind had deceived me,among other nonsensical responses that I received.
Then,these "experts" claimed that they,based on their sophisticated education in Psychology,were better equipped to interpret what I have experienced,than I am.
Now,whether he be right or wrong,someone has provided evidence that you all base your knowledge on what you read on Wkipedia and watch on you tube.....
i don't know,,If I needed an attorney and he told me he acquired his law degree from youtube university,I would prefer to throw myself at the mercy of the court and plead ,guilty as charged..

I find it odd that you should ask that question?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#103132
May 10, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
That one may be familiar with what is written in Scripture,is not an indication that one understands the meaning contained in what Scripture teaches.
In order to claim to understand,requires more than merely reading.
You need to personaly put into practice what is being taught.
You also need to apply the criteria contained in Scriptures to make sure that your interpretation of Scriptures are correct.
I am assuming that the criteria included in Scripture is what you have in mind when you state that" I,meanig you, choose not to reinforce illusions"
If one does not follow the instructions,but instead follows their opinions and emotions,chances are very high,that you will arrive at the wrong conclusions,thereby,deceiving yourself into believing that you understand ,that which you do not.
What? None of the usual cut and paste from Biblegateway?
If you told me that you believe marshmallows are good for your teeth because you wholeheartedly agree when the manufacturer says they are white and easy to chew, why would I placate that opinion? Same thing. I am not trying to dissuade your emotional investment in Kraft, but you only deceive yourself to insinuate that there is any intellectual "seeking" involved. You could as easily and as justifiably rationalize being a devotee of any of the other religion. Instead, you dismiss them - as do I.
ProvenScience

Somerset, KY

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#103133
May 10, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Moses uses a magic staff. There's a talking snake. Jesus walked on water.
But I guess actually Jesus could be a ghost or a zombie. He died then was seen walking around.
How is that magic, ghosts, and zombies? I'm just being honest about it.
Talk about epic flooding--

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/10...

(which might've read if written 2k years ago, Aye, lands of water made of light, thou would float upon the air above them...)

:-)
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103134
May 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt it... He has no idea what "Evidence" means....
And you do,as evidenced to your response as to how many galaxies are out there..you said,about 10 billion,with no evidence to support your ,opinion.
Who counted them and how were they counted.
Do you realize that in order to count to 10 billion,would take over 36 years.
If one were able to discover a galaxy a week,it would take 10 billion weeks to discover them,which in turn would take millions of years in order to accomplish such a feat.
I know,I don't understand Science and you will provide me with the formula as to how this was accomplished.
Hope it will be a better formula that the one you provided for the creation of the universe;
"matter and energy came together and the universe was created".
I bought a kit at ToysR Us,that contained the same instructions.
All I managed to create was a mess in the kitchen,got my wife highly upset and which took me a few days to clean up.
I know you mentioned that you post as a means of entertaining.
Well,you certainly have accomplishe that Goal,you are very entertaining and I do enjoy your postings
ProvenScience

Somerset, KY

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#103135
May 10, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Sweet!
Sweetest

http://www.bing.com/images/search...

http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images/foot-...

Now get busy lol.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103137
May 10, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
What? None of the usual cut and paste from Biblegateway?
If you told me that you believe marshmallows are good for your teeth because you wholeheartedly agree when the manufacturer says they are white and easy to chew, why would I placate that opinion? Same thing. I am not trying to dissuade your emotional investment in Kraft, but you only deceive yourself to insinuate that there is any intellectual "seeking" involved. You could as easily and as justifiably rationalize being a devotee of any of the other religion. Instead, you dismiss them - as do I.
Since you claim to have a knowledge of Scriptures,I saw no need to provide you with information you already claim to have.
Your analogy between the instructions contained in the bible and some absurd reference to marshmallows is clearly an attempt to avoid addressing the issue being discussed.
When one avoids the issue being discussed,it is for good reason.
Either you can not or is unwilling to confront the issue head on,for fear of the results ,therefore, in order not to provide an answer ,evading it would seem the best course available.
Still in all,avoiding the issue,provides an answer,in and of itself...
MaryAnn

Monticello, KY

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#103138
May 10, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
That one may be familiar with what is written in Scripture,is not an indication that one understands the meaning contained in what Scripture teaches.
In order to claim to understand,requires more than merely reading.
You need to personaly put into practice what is being taught.
You also need to apply the criteria contained in Scriptures to make sure that your interpretation of Scriptures are correct.
I am assuming that the criteria included in Scripture is what you have in mind when you state that" I,meanig you, choose not to reinforce illusions"
If one does not follow the instructions,but instead follows their opinions and emotions,chances are very high,that you will arrive at the wrong conclusions,thereby,deceiving yourself into believing that you understand ,that which you do not.
curious you do realize you are not supposed to argue over the Scriptures. The Bible says if they will not hear you to shake the dust off your feet and go on. This constant bickering with these infidels and giving them more opportunity to blaspheme God is wrong. You need to quit. Same goes for others that do this.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#103139
May 10, 2013
 

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ProvenScience wrote:
Uh-huh. Are you the little old lady who surreptitiously watches the menfolk sweat in the summer and gets in a tizzy over short skirts? Whatever interest you've got in feet or bromhidrosis is none of my business as long as you don't rub anyone's nose in it.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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#103140
May 10, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
And you do,as evidenced to your response as to how many galaxies are out there..you said,about 10 billion,with no evidence to support your ,opinion.
Who counted them and how were they counted.
Do you realize that in order to count to 10 billion,would take over 36 years.
If one were able to discover a galaxy a week,it would take 10 billion weeks to discover them,which in turn would take millions of years in order to accomplish such a feat.
I know,I don't understand Science and you will provide me with the formula as to how this was accomplished.
Hope it will be a better formula that the one you provided for the creation of the universe;

"matter and energy came together and the universe was created".
I bought a kit at ToysR Us,that contained the same instructions.
All I managed to create was a mess in the kitchen,got my wife highly upset and which took me a few days to clean up.
I know you mentioned that you post as a means of entertaining.
Well,you certainly have accomplishe that Goal,you are very entertaining and I do enjoy your postings
See here you going showing the world you are not the brightest bulb in the box.... If I take a box of JuJu Beans and I know about the size of the box and about the size of the average JuJu Bean I can estimate About how many JuJu Beans are in the box.... The Actual estimated number of galaxies in the universe as of this time is between 130 to 500 Billion with each containing an estimated 300 to 600 Billion stars each... But I bet you would want to sit and count that big box of JuJu Beans wouldn't you...

I Never said that Matter and Energy came together and created anything, now your making crap up....... Matter IS Energy, Energy IS Matter.... One can be converted into the other and back as has been validated Millions of times since Einstein explained how that whole E=mc2 thingy works....

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#103141
May 10, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you claim to have a knowledge of Scriptures,I saw no need to provide you with information you already claim to have.
Your analogy between the instructions contained in the bible and some absurd reference to marshmallows is clearly an attempt to avoid addressing the issue being discussed.
When one avoids the issue being discussed,it is for good reason.
Either you can not or is unwilling to confront the issue head on,for fear of the results ,therefore, in order not to provide an answer ,evading it would seem the best course available.
Still in all,avoiding the issue,provides an answer,in and of itself...
There IS no issue to evade or avoid except your doubts regarding what I do or do not comprehend about spirituality. That is not MY issue. Who made you the Holy Inquisitor?
Anything I say you can handily quip back with "that is not what I meant, I knew you don't understand." There's little point in playing volleyball with a brick wall or football when the goalposts are on wheels. Who hasn't seen it a thousand times? flippin' yay team religie, sis boom bah.
Big Truck

London, KY

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May 10, 2013
 

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If they allow the Bible. they have to allow the Koran and/or any other religious "texts." Be careful what you wish for...
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#103144
May 10, 2013
 

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MaryAnn wrote:
<quoted text>curious you do realize you are not supposed to argue over the Scriptures. The Bible says if they will not hear you to shake the dust off your feet and go on. This constant bickering with these infidels and giving them more opportunity to blaspheme God is wrong. You need to quit. Same goes for others that do this.
MaryAnn,I agree with you,but,let me explain;
This has been a learning experience for me and I consider it a blessing.
It has helped to point to spiritual weaknesses that I have and have had to address.
I view these debates as a form of Bible study.

Based on their misinterpretation of the Bible,the infidels,as you call them, have taken Bible teachings out of context,in order to negate the validity of Scriptures.
Based on this misinformation,they then,ask questions,believing that they will not be proven wrong.
I've dealt with those types of questions on several occassions and,using the answers provided in the BIble,have pointed out their errors.
This has caused me to study the Bible more diligently.
Once I am able to find the right answer,thereby,debunking their opinion,further validates to me,the accuracy of the teachings contained therein,causing my faith to be further strenghthened.
At no time has anyone claimed that the interpretation that was provided me by the Bible,is inaccurate.
They merely claim that the evidence is not acceptable,because they do not believe in God or the Bible.
Yet,they believe the Bible is accurate,when they ask questions,based on their misinterpretation of that which they have read.
Their questions generally start with,the Bible says,,or,the Bible teaches,meaning that they believe what the Bible says,based on their erroneous interpretation.
Once they are proven to be wrong,they respond that the answer is not acceptable because they do not believe what the Bible says.
In other words,they believe what is convenient for them to believe,
not that which is based on the Bible's actual teachings
It is obvious that type of wisdom is based on foolishness..
As the Apostle Paul clearly stated,What is wisdom to man,is foolishness to god and what is wisdom to God ,is foolishness to man.
That they resent when the Bible is quoted them,is obvious by their responses.
That is probably due to the fact that they are unable to refute that which is taught in the Bible,other than to arbitrarily dismiss it.
They claim to know Scriptures,but,will not admit that they have used the criteria specified in the Bible,in order to be able to interpret what it says.
To do so,would only further confirm their erroneous beliefs are unfounded.
As for me,it is a sense of joy,when I am able to find the answer to their erroneous questions.
It confirms that the foundation on which my faith is based,is strong,strenfgthens my faith and has caused me to be more diligent is search of the truth
" I will swend you the COMFORTER,and he will lead you into all truth"
Needless to say,those who chose not to believe,will mock me.
Should I be concerned about that?
Their futile attempts to disparage the basis for my faith,has failed
I his wisdom,God has used their foolishness,in order to strengthen that which they sought to destroy.
Not only that,but ,he taught me some lessons along the way.
Therefore,my blessing is twofold
Sasha

Glasgow, KY

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#103145
May 10, 2013
 

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MaryAnn wrote:
<quoted text>curious you do realize you are not supposed to argue over the Scriptures. The Bible says if they will not hear you to shake the dust off your feet and go on. This constant bickering with these infidels and giving them more opportunity to blaspheme God is wrong. You need to quit. Same goes for others that do this.
Of course, one would never want to argue over scripture, is this one of my bad mushroom trips that I am reliving from the 70's?

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