Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,073

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102678 May 6, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we are plainly told that God requires faith. With proof, there is no room for faith. So on a wide scale, it does not surprise me that there is no proof of God. But to individuals that turn their thoughts to God and follow His commandments, we are able to see evidence in many things that non-believers will not be privileged to experience.
That's how you sell any snake oil, you have to have faith it will work or it won't work. The problem with faith is that it eliminates objectivity completely, it destroys your capability to see just how much that snake oil has failed to work. Thus, you imagine evidence has been presented without ever questioning it, which makes you delusional.
Sunny Day

Monticello, KY

#102679 May 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheep are tended to simply because they are to be lead to a slaughter and consumed by the shepherd. Good analogy choice, very apt in describing the followers, food being prepared for the slaughter.
It happens in those days that the common man kept sheep. Sheep were in abundance and vulnerable to carnivorous predators. Therefore they needed to be watched/tended. There were also sellers of wool as a way of life and to make their own clothing etc. Only the wealthier had many cattle or horses and camels and such. Chickens, cattle,goats various fowl were all eventually slaughtered and eaten. What is your deal about sheep. You think they are dumber than a chicken? What about fish? You surely have never heard of the food chain. It is as good of an analogy as any other. In Psalms 23; "Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me". The rod to keep the wolves at bay and the staff to keep the sheep in the safety of the fold.
Sunny Day

Monticello, KY

#102680 May 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That's how you sell any snake oil, you have to have faith it will work or it won't work. The problem with faith is that it eliminates objectivity completely, it destroys your capability to see just how much that snake oil has failed to work. Thus, you imagine evidence has been presented without ever questioning it, which makes you delusional.
The faith you are mocking as snake oil has never failed me yet. You should try it before you mock it. If you say I did and it didn't work then it is you..not God.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#102681 May 6, 2013
Sunny Day wrote:
<quoted text>There is no new thing under the sun. God allows knowledge to make all these things you speak of. I also have nice things and the love of God too. I never was asked to choose. I was blessed. If I lose all these things I will be ok. Just start over. You apparently take your joy from material things. I hope you never lose your Harley or your camera etc. But..what if you die today? Are you sure you are sure? That's all.. I won't bother you again. Thanks
You also take joy from from material things but you are not intellectually honest about it... If those Non Material Thing were all that gave you joy then as I said... Walk off into the woods without anything and get back to me on how wonderful life is in a week... Heck take a couple people you love dearly and set up a bible camp without any material things.... With all that Joy and Love you folks will be great with no bad old science stuff to muck up the place...
Farkus

Lexington, KY

#102682 May 6, 2013
I wonder how the Christians explain away the fact that mothers and fathers murder their own children and say that God told them to do it? I know, it is REALLY the Devil.

Seems quite funny to me that your God knows ALL past, present, and future, but SOMEHOW didn't see the Devil coming.

But if you admit that your sky God knows all, then God is allowing the Devil to have his way with God's children. I thought God was in charge?

Too funny. Please seek professional help (and I don't mean the child-molesting clergy) if you are hearing voices...
Farkus

Lexington, KY

#102683 May 6, 2013
How did the Devil get into the Garden anyway.....

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#102684 May 6, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Based on what I have observrd and read ,material things only lead to a temporary happiness,as the more they have ,the more they want,not happy with what they have,they want more
Why that happens,I am not sure.They may be looking to impress others with their material wealth,they may envy others who may posses better or bigger material things than the do"keeping up with the Joneses"
In many cases,in order to achieve their material goals,they recklessly permit their human nature to guide them.
They devise schemes,lie,cheat,connive and make unsound decisions
in order to achieve their goals.
One can read about that in the newspapers every day.
Those who looked for happiness by winning the lottery,suddenly find themselves in very unhappy situations.
Those who buy houses they can not afford,those who device schemes in order
to build on the fortunes they already posses"Bernie Madoff' is one of many examples and in the procecss they destroy their lives and that of many others.
My neighbor owns an HD.Recently their was a Motorcycle Show held in Daytona.
He went and bought another motorcycle in order to attend this show.
Paid over $30,000 for it...He was very happy with his purchase.
A week later, when he came back from the show,he was complaining.
He'd seen some other motorcycles at the show that were much more appealing to him
As he said,"Boy,am I sorry I didn't buy one of those instead....
So much for material happiness and the wreckage it often leaves behind
You guys keep moving the goal post and missing the point.... The Original question was about being happy and did science have anything to do with it... it was not about stuff making one happy... A Harley does not make me happy.. but riding around checking out the country side and enjoying the day with the wind in whats left of my hair indeed makes me happy, feels me with joy... There are Lots of stuff that makes me happy and fills me with joy... And I get to Enjoy them due to Science.... Happiness is a Choice... And you guys that want to sit around and thank some invisible guy in the sky for your happiness are being Intellectually Dishonest because in order for you to be happy sitting and having the time to be happy is because long ago Science came along and over time has allowed you the ability to sit around and naval gaze.... Without Science you would be spending your every waking hour digging roots and tubers to feed yourself or hiding from stuff that would end your short 40 years long life.... At night your dung covered hut would be your hidey hole from others and wild things that would love to snack on you pieces parts.... Could you still find a few fleeting moments to be happy and joyful, of course you could... But only if you had not known what science could provide in the first place.... But the Question was asked of Me Now... And I'm intellectually honest enough to know that if Science were gone tomorrow Happiness and Joy would be the last thing on my mind... I would be spending my time trying to Repeat Science so I could make the things I could to help feed me and my family and defend us from the roving gangs of B'Levers that would be trying to take my crap....

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102685 May 6, 2013
Sunny Day wrote:
<quoted text>The faith you are mocking as snake oil has never failed me yet. You should try it before you mock it. If you say I did and it didn't work then it is you..not God.
Sadly, it has failed you, you just refuse to see when it has because you are blinded by faith.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#102686 May 6, 2013
Farkus wrote:
How did the Devil get into the Garden anyway.....
Lock Pick?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102687 May 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Well first, I don't "attack" others, if you believe that I do then you are probably projecting or you feel threatened when we discount your imaginary friend, which is nothing more than an extension of your ego.

Second, I don't believe in anything. If there is no sufficient evidence to analyze or back up a claim, it is discarded, end of story. That eliminates the need for belief and protects a person from snake oil scams such as religion.

Here's a though exercise to demonstrate the difference between a skeptic and a believer:

When you walk in the graveyard at night, what thought goes through your mind?
I said "think", not believe. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Just don't throw rocks at people who put themselves out there with what they think. At least they have the courage to say what they think, knowing they will be ridiculed. In this sense, and the example you gave, you do attack believers. Making fun of others is attacking. Ask a victim of a bully.

Graveyard: I think of the life of the ones that passed. I think of their families and that someone is missing them. I think of genealogy and heritage. What do you think of?
Sunny Day

Monticello, KY

#102689 May 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
You also take joy from from material things but you are not intellectually honest about it... If those Non Material Thing were all that gave you joy then as I said... Walk off into the woods without anything and get back to me on how wonderful life is in a week... Heck take a couple people you love dearly and set up a bible camp without any material things.... With all that Joy and Love you folks will be great with no bad old science stuff to muck up the place...
Your reply makes absolutely no sense in connection to what I said. I just said I have nice things too didn't I? Read it.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102690 May 6, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I said "think", not believe. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Just don't throw rocks at people who put themselves out there with what they think. At least they have the courage to say what they think, knowing they will be ridiculed. In this sense, and the example you gave, you do attack believers. Making fun of others is attacking. Ask a victim of a bully.
Graveyard: I think of the life of the ones that passed. I think of their families and that someone is missing them. I think of genealogy and heritage. What do you think of?
Interesting answer, you may be capable of seeing reality as yet. What I do in a graveyard at night is search for ghosts. Why? Because I am a skeptic and want to find something substantial to all claims. I seek the evidence, I don't wait for it to be handed to me, that's the difference, that's the leap you must make to understand why you have been sold snake oil, and why you ignore evidence that contradicts it. Most of us atheists are agnostic atheists, in spite of some claiming to be certain, when pressed they will admit they don't actually know for certain. But for the myths created by humans which pretend to answer the questions we can be certain, because they are self-contradictory, and nothing self-contradictory can be fact, it's impossible.

But here's the thing, the requirement to being a skeptic that most people cannot deal with, even a lot of atheists cannot deal with it so they stick with just education. A true skeptic must be willing to seek the evidence in all cases, to search it out, to find it yourself, lots of work, lots of study, and tons of exploration. You have to then actually test and analyze that evidence yourself, and discard any notion, all notions, that present no evidence as nothing more than wishful or fanciful thinking. That is required to be considered a skeptic, and something everyone should be doing in this modern age. That is what I am, wholeheartedly and completely. If you present no evidence, or the evidence you present does not withstand scrutiny of any sort, then what you claim is discarded. I recommend you try it sometime, take the Book of Mormon, find one claim about it, just one, and study all the evidence, not just what you have handed to you, but seek it out. Analyze it, it falls apart with very little scrutiny.
Sunny Day

Monticello, KY

#102691 May 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sadly, it has failed you, you just refuse to see when it has because you are blinded by faith.
I gotta go, you people are not only wrong you are crazy! Good day.
Raina

Monticello, KY

#102692 May 6, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I said "think", not believe. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Just don't throw rocks at people who put themselves out there with what they think. At least they have the courage to say what they think, knowing they will be ridiculed. In this sense, and the example you gave, you do attack believers. Making fun of others is attacking. Ask a victim of a bully.
Graveyard: I think of the life of the ones that passed. I think of their families and that someone is missing them. I think of genealogy and heritage. What do you think of?
I think she was hoping you'd say you were afraid a hand would reach out and grab you or a ghost would get you in the dark. It's not the dead we need to be scared of it's the living.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102693 May 6, 2013
Sunny Day wrote:
<quoted text>I gotta go, you people are not only wrong you are crazy! Good day.
So ... no evidence that it has not failed you.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102694 May 6, 2013
Raina wrote:
<quoted text>I think she was hoping you'd say you were afraid a hand would reach out and grab you or a ghost would get you in the dark. It's not the dead we need to be scared of it's the living.
You are a defeatist.
Raina

Monticello, KY

#102695 May 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
You guys keep moving the goal post and missing the point.... The Original question was about being happy and did science have anything to do with it... it was not about stuff making one happy... A Harley does not make me happy.. but riding around checking out the country side and enjoying the day with the wind in whats left of my hair indeed makes me happy, feels me with joy... There are Lots of stuff that makes me happy and fills me with joy... And I get to Enjoy them due to Science.... Happiness is a Choice... And you guys that want to sit around and thank some invisible guy in the sky for your happiness are being Intellectually Dishonest because in order for you to be happy sitting and having the time to be happy is because long ago Science came along and over time has allowed you the ability to sit around and naval gaze.... Without Science you would be spending your every waking hour digging roots and tubers to feed yourself or hiding from stuff that would end your short 40 years long life.... At night your dung covered hut would be your hidey hole from others and wild things that would love to snack on you pieces parts.... Could you still find a few fleeting moments to be happy and joyful, of course you could... But only if you had not known what science could provide in the first place.... But the Question was asked of Me Now... And I'm intellectually honest enough to know that if Science were gone tomorrow Happiness and Joy would be the last thing on my mind... I would be spending my time trying to Repeat Science so I could make the things I could to help feed me and my family and defend us from the roving gangs of B'Levers that would be trying to take my crap....
Well you got that one all wrong as usual. You think believers just sit staring at the ceiling. We know way better how to enjoy nature and all the nice things scientists have figured out how to make. Although I would give inventors a good amount of credit. Just because a scientist or inventor figures something out doesn't mean they are atheists/anti Christ as you all seem to think.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#102696 May 6, 2013
Raina wrote:
<quoted text>Well you got that one all wrong as usual. You think believers just sit staring at the ceiling. We know way better how to enjoy nature and all the nice things scientists have figured out how to make. Although I would give inventors a good amount of credit. Just because a scientist or inventor figures something out doesn't mean they are atheists/anti Christ as you all seem to think.
However, the more we discover, the fewer places your god has to hide.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102697 May 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>That's how you sell any snake oil, you have to have faith it will work or it won't work. The problem with faith is that it eliminates objectivity completely, it destroys your capability to see just how much that snake oil has failed to work. Thus, you imagine evidence has been presented without ever questioning it, which makes you delusional.
That's your opinion. Mine is different because I have experienced it for myself many times. Consider it a delusion if you want, it makes no difference what others think.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#102698 May 6, 2013
Raina wrote:
<quoted text>Well you got that one all wrong as usual. You think believers just sit staring at the ceiling. We know way better how to enjoy nature and all the nice things scientists have figured out how to make. Although I would give inventors a good amount of credit. Just because a scientist or inventor figures something out doesn't mean they are atheists/anti Christ as you all seem to think.
Geezzz... it's like talking to a room full of drug users.... The Comments were in Context of the first poster that asked a Question... That poster told me it was Sad that I Got up in the morning Happy and gave credit to Science for such... Then I'm told I am materialistic and Joy/Happiness comes from loving your family or some fuzzy idea of a god and afterlife ... And Now you jump in telling me I'm wrong when what you are writing is totally out of context to the thread I was commenting on...

Inventors do not Invent in a vacuum... Inventors use the 1000's of years of mans knowledge in science in order to build a better mouse trap... Take Away the Science and your Inventor would be hard pressed to invent a paper clip.. he would have to start by gaining the metal working knowledge, and even the scientific basis that gave him the idea which ores to dig to start with... a simple basic Invention of today requires Science that has today become mundane and common place, taken for granted... With Your Knowledge today drop you back a couple 1000 years and Invent a firearm... As much as you know about how to build one you would spend a lifetime trying to Invent the dozens of necessary steps to get to the point you can build a working firearm that didn't blow up in your face... Every new Invention today, no matter how simple, owes it's invention to all the science knowledge that came before....

The Point you seem to have missed by not going back and read the posts in context is that I was not saying religious folks sit around naval gazing in a quest for Happy... You use science in your everyday life and take it for granted as you enjoy your life of religion... So I was pointing out when someone wants to tell me it's sad when I find joy and Know it's mainly due to Science and that I should find joy and happiness in all this delusional religious crap, they are just your normal hypocrite and not intellectually honest enough to even consider what their Joy would be without that taken for granted science...

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