Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 137705 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Feb 12

Roseville, CA

#102139 May 2, 2013
James the Preacher at Atheist convention.

&fe ature=related

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102140 May 2, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>FFS idiot, I know exactly what you were trying to do. Why do you assume my density is in any way similar to yours? Annoying.

It's also terribly annoying to have to deconstruct all of your strawmen. But I'll break it down for you again.

"you made an argument that someone couldn't think for themselves because they follow a particular religion."
No. I asked the question HOW could they come to the conclusion that they so thoroughly believe without the thoughts of others. And I further specified that I was looking for the progression from evidence/analysis to the specific conclusion drawn.

Since we're having to discuss this, I'll assume that you aren't objective enough to get how everything you said is invalid and not remotely the same thing. Here is the difference:
Essentially every bit of evidence available at the time that the theory of evolution was produced, and in fact orders of magnitude MORE evidence, is available today. And if 'On the Origin of Species' had never been written, any person COULD look at this evidence today and come to the same conclusion. And every logical/skeptical person already HAS looked at a vast amount of evidence and come to their own conclusion before accepting the theory.

"I made the same argument to you to show you that you learned things that were previously learned by others and taught to you."

But you didn't make the same argument. Not at all.

"So by your logic, you can't think for yourself either."

No. By applying your broken understanding of what logic is to 1/3 of my statement, you determined that I'm stupid enough to say that nobody can think for themselves if another has ever come to the same conclusion based on the same set of evidence. That's not "my logic". Good grief. Take of the blinders and quit acting like I have to make flawed arguments to win.

It was, and is, completely sound and there is good reason that the monkey hasn't answered me yet. He'd have to be abysmally stupid to not see the embarrassment he'd be walking into by honestly answering. You people at least have the common sense to dodge the real questions and spew scripture and prophesy. I mean, if I were intellectually dishonest and had completely unjustified positions, I'm sure I'd do the same thing to keep from looking bad to my target audience.
curious wrote, "<quoted text>
If I am convinced,in my mind,that something does not exist,I do not waste my time debating that topic,What would be the point?
What would I be hoping to accomplish,what would I be searching for?"

What? Look at the topic title, mouth breather. If there weren't a bunch of illiterate monkeys trying to shove disgusting lies down the throats of children and completely destroy their ability to think, NOBODY WOULD CARE. Unfortunately for our entire species, though, that is exactly what is happening. And I feel obligated in some way to stop the spread of this stupidity until, at some point, it stops trying to spread itself.
And to be clear, I'm not speaking of your God, your religion, your whatever. I'm talking about how and where you're shoving it.
By the way, I don't know what FFS means, but calling me an idiot doesn't mean I didn't "getcha" on your own terms.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#102141 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No way dude. You can't talk your way out of this one. It is the same thing. So you're trying to change it to: one could look at all the evidence. But you don't get to have evidence either, unless you found it yourself. Otherwise, you are utilizing someone else's thoughts. You don't get to do math, because someone else thought up the numbers you use. You don't even get to type a response to me without using letters that someone else thought up.
Your argument was the straw man, I'm just using the same argument to prove to you that you utilize other people's thoughts constantly, but you still can think for yourself. So your trap for whoever you were talking to, is invalid.
So, you really think that evidence = thoughts? And you really think that's what a straw man is?

You're stupid. Seriously. Dude.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102142 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I could admit I'm wrong. But I think I'm right so I will continue my path until shown otherwise, same as you.
What evidence do you want? That God is real? That there is one true church? That Jesus was the Son of God? Which one?
Well evidence a god exists at all is a must if one is to even think of a "true church". Even then if evidence is slim to none about god, to claim one church is more true than another is just another claim that has zero basis in reason, logic, and certainly evidence.

I know Mormons make the claim often. Maybe more so than others, yet have no more evidence than any other church, which is zero.
Again, I cannot forgo my logic to have faith in such a zero evidence based concept.

You have simply proven to me yet again, their is zero evidence of a god.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102143 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure I can admit I may be wrong. I don't have all the answers. I'm sharing my beliefs.
Well, I believe that God does cause miracles, so if you require a different source, why would you ask me to provide it?
I am sharing what I believe or do not believe. I do not believe a god has ever caused a miracle. Funny thing is, you said god is not responsible for these miracles earlier. Are you again changing the claim? You jump back and forth on this claim so much, I wonder if you are just forgetting what you said earlier or are just confused of what the doctrine says on the matter.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102144 May 2, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>So, you really think that evidence = thoughts? And you really think that's what a straw man is?

You're stupid. Seriously. Dude.
If evidence fell in someone's lap, there was thought involved. Even if it fell in someone's lap, there was thought involved. You didn't come up with all the things I mentioned yourself, so you utilize other people's thoughts. So if you accuse someone else as not being able to think for themselves because they utilize other people's thoughts, it's pot calling the kettle black.

And I didn't bring up the term "straw man", you did.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102145 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I could admit I'm wrong. But I think I'm right so I will continue my path until shown otherwise, same as you.
What evidence do you want? That God is real? That there is one true church? That Jesus was the Son of God? Which one?
Unlike yourself, I do not claim either way whether their is a god or not. I claim I do not think their is one. Think is the operative word. "Think" is a word that shows humility. "Know" is a word that can show hubris, especially when you claim to know yet have zero evidence.
So do you know god is real or is it just something you think is true?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102146 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well evidence a god exists at all is a must if one is to even think of a "true church". Even then if evidence is slim to none about god, to claim one church is more true than another is just another claim that has zero basis in reason, logic, and certainly evidence.

I know Mormons make the claim often. Maybe more so than others, yet have no more evidence than any other church, which is zero.
Again, I cannot forgo my logic to have faith in such a zero evidence based concept.

You have simply proven to me yet again, their is zero evidence of a god.
We utilize scripture, prophecies, and the Holy Ghost to compare what Jesus taught and set up, to what is active doctrine in different churches to determine which church is closest to the truth. We don't sit around thinking about evidence for the existence of God. We already accepted that or we wouldn't be believers.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102147 May 2, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response is a RED HERRING,,,look up it's meaning.
You and many others say that you want evidence of God's existence,
and God has provided you a way by which you can attain that evidence, if you really want to know him
When you really want something,you make every effort possible to get it....
You need ask yourselves,When have you ever made an honest effort to seek God?
Your response is,in no way,relevant to whai I posted.
I never said I wanted eviidence of Zeus Existence,I never said I wanted evidence of Allah Or Mohammed.
Since I did not ask,nor am I interested in,therefore there is no need for me to DILIGENTLY seek an answer
It is you hypocritical Atheists,who say,that you want evidence,and when told how that evidence can be attained,refuse to do so
In other words,you will not accept any answer,unless it is the one you want.
That is why you are hypocrites and illogical
If you think I have not looked for evidence, you do not understand a single post I have made here on this thread.
My statement simply showed most believers are hypocritical when they ask if I have looked for god.
Can you show I have not looked for a god? Of course you cannot, but you certainly admit not looking for certain gods and have not looked at certain claimed prophets for truth.

If real evidence of a god existed, no one would need what is known as faith to be religious. From what I can tell, all claims of evidence of a god are just mind games. Anyone that understands how the mind works knows these are just games, not reality.

Anyone who can see all religions use the same mind game to claim truth can see some must be false. I am sure you claim Islam is false. I am sure the 9/11 terrorists thought they had the same sort of evidence of a god as yourself. They trusted this evidence so much they did an incredible deed that most of us cannot even comprehend how one can do such a thing. And you wish for me to use that same sort of faith?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102148 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I am sharing what I believe or do not believe. I do not believe a god has ever caused a miracle. Funny thing is, you said god is not responsible for these miracles earlier. Are you again changing the claim? You jump back and forth on this claim so much, I wonder if you are just forgetting what you said earlier or are just confused of what the doctrine says on the matter.
I don't remember saying God isn't responsible for miracles. I don't believe I did, because I don't believe that.

You are entitled to your beliefs. I won't even slam you for them or question your sanity or tell you you are going to hell. That's not what I'm about.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102149 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Unlike yourself, I do not claim either way whether their is a god or not. I claim I do not think their is one. Think is the operative word. "Think" is a word that shows humility. "Know" is a word that can show hubris, especially when you claim to know yet have zero evidence.
So do you know god is real or is it just something you think is true?
I know, but only because of my experiences with the Holy Ghost and priesthood.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102150 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We utilize scripture, prophecies, and the Holy Ghost to compare what Jesus taught and set up, to what is active doctrine in different churches to determine which church is closest to the truth. We don't sit around thinking about evidence for the existence of God. We already accepted that or we wouldn't be believers.
The scriptures are just claims of what happened. Their is no evidence of most of the claims in the book. A few that may have come true were not what I would call a prophesy, I would call them obvious predictions.
Do you think any church is not using the same reasoning as yourself? I think they all do, yet not all can be correct. All could be wrong though. Yet all claim as you do that they are correct. Absolutely none have any real evidence. Claims are not evidence.

And no, I do not think any of you sit around thinking of the existence of god. I think you have always assumed a god existed without thinking about it. I think this is part of the problem, if not the whole problem. I think the 9/11 hijackers never once thought they might be no god. This is a huge problem.
When people are so darn sure their beliefs are true but have zero actual evidence of the truth, this is likely to lead to huge problems.
This is why I have a problem with faith.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102151 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't remember saying God isn't responsible for miracles. I don't believe I did, because I don't believe that.
You are entitled to your beliefs. I won't even slam you for them or question your sanity or tell you you are going to hell. That's not what I'm about.
Well maybe I will go back to find the posts on it.
BTW, you said I had no humility for my beliefs.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102152 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I know, but only because of my experiences with the Holy Ghost and priesthood.
So your humility does not allow you to question whether this holy ghost thing just might be your own thoughts?
I think the lack of doubt is a big problem.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102153 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The scriptures are just claims of what happened. Their is no evidence of most of the claims in the book. A few that may have come true were not what I would call a prophesy, I would call them obvious predictions.
Do you think any church is not using the same reasoning as yourself? I think they all do, yet not all can be correct. All could be wrong though. Yet all claim as you do that they are correct. Absolutely none have any real evidence. Claims are not evidence.

And no, I do not think any of you sit around thinking of the existence of god. I think you have always assumed a god existed without thinking about it. I think this is part of the problem, if not the whole problem. I think the 9/11 hijackers never once thought they might be no god. This is a huge problem.
When people are so darn sure their beliefs are true but have zero actual evidence of the truth, this is likely to lead to huge problems.
This is why I have a problem with faith.
I went through my period of wondering if God was real. Once I received my witness from the Holy Ghost, one that I could not deny was from God, I began looking for the right church. I believe I found it. It seems to be the most accurate in accordance with scripture (which I believe to be true).
I do not believe that God intends for us all to be lost when trying to find His true church. If we truly seek, we will find.
If you spend your time looking for proof, you will waste your time. If you spend your time talking to God and following His direction, you can know He is real, and that He loves you and cares about you.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102154 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well maybe I will go back to find the posts on it.
BTW, you said I had no humility for my beliefs.
I said you need to have humility to open the door that He may exist. This is all it takes to begin a path to knowing God.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#102155 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
If evidence fell in someone's lap, there was thought involved. Even if it fell in someone's lap, there was thought involved. You didn't come up with all the things I mentioned yourself, so you utilize other people's thoughts. So if you accuse someone else as not being able to think for themselves because they utilize other people's thoughts, it's pot calling the kettle black.
And I didn't bring up the term "straw man", you did.
Evidence is not thought. Evidence simply is. I could go out and dig up bones if I chose to. I'm not kidding... you are either stupid or dishonest to keep acting like they are the same, much less in any way related.

I didn't "accuse" anything. Quit being a liar. I asked questions to point out how another person was making false claims, they refused to provide an answer because they knew they would be demonstrating that they lied. "Pot calling the kettle black" does not apply in ANY way here, because the entire point of what I posted was to get that person to demonstrate that they were lying. I am not lying about anything.

And of course I brought up strawman, because it's what you do every time you mischaracterize my statements. I also used the term correctly. You have yet to do so, and it makes you look stupid to people who know what logic is. I guess it's a good thing for you that nobody here who doesn't already disagree with you would fit that bill.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't sit around thinking about evidence for the existence of God. We already accepted that or we wouldn't be believers.
So you already accepted the existence of God based on faith (and therefore evidence is not required), or you already accepted that there was sufficient evidence to state that God exists?
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the lack of doubt is a big problem.
The Bible tells you not to doubt!(James 1:6, Romans 14:23, etc.) Duh!

I'm beginning to think that there is literally no way to have an actual debate here. I held out hope for a couple, but that has pretty much passed now.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#102156 May 2, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So your humility does not allow you to question whether this holy ghost thing just might be your own thoughts?
I think the lack of doubt is a big problem.
When you spontaneously learn things that you couldn't possibly have known on your own, while offering a blessing for someone else, you know it isn't your own thoughts.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102157 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh, no it's pretty clear when they describe Him, the way He would be born, the miracles He would perform, and the way He would die and rise again.
The Jews believe Jesus was no god due to the fact he died, period. Thus it stands to reason the scriptures never predicted the death you speak of. Can you show the specific scripture?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#102158 May 2, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm saying the trends will be the same. Marriage does not carry the weight it once did, sadly.
I think marriage is great. But I already made the monogamous choice before marriage. Gays could do the same.
So because marriage does not seem to you that it carries the same weight it once did, you refuse to allow homosexuals to have the privilege?
I already agreed one can be monogamous without marriage, but that proves nothing to my point. You keep ignoring my point as if I made no point. Fact is, even though some people do not honor their marriage vows, it does help to make such vows in a legal manner that is accepted by society. It helps one to be monogamous. It helps whether one might could do it without marriage or not.
The fact you keep ignoring this point shows your views must not be very thoughtful.

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