Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,122

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100694 Apr 23, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>The mormons claim that some jewish people from the original blood line came to America thousands of years ago and jesus came here and revealed himself to them. That is why they are above every one else because they are from the original pure jewish blood line and are the master race. Some of that has changed, they now let blacks in their church.
They claim that the garden of Eden is in Minnesota
I wouldn't rule any geneological lineage out, Pangea WAS one big land mass.

I don't think however, there's ANY "pure" bloodlines left-not given the history of mankind! Not even in RI red chickens, who generally lay brown eggs-then oops, where'd that cream colored one come from?:-)

Isn't there some sort of envirodome around those parts? Or are you referencing the one in the Bible, which then would be debatable according to geological studies on locations as referenced from the book.
Are they referencing it as such, or perhaps they have a really nice backyard garden of their own that they've created?

Non, not enough facts presented enough to form opinion upon sir...
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100695 Apr 23, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do Mormons think that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?
Why hasn't Caliphonybrokia been studying Australia's new desalination mega structure, for future water provisioning?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100696 Apr 23, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>I will be as polite as possible as I explain the truth of this matter.

That's because you have an agenda or simply don't understand what logic is. And these are facts, not insults.

Literal interpretations of Genesis (AKA "creationism") are simply as wrong as you can get. There is a universe of contradiction. You literally cannot look ANYWHERE without finding evidence that disproves it. People who believe the literal interpretation is correct and that science is wrong are brainwashed.

That said, Christians who believe that Genesis is simply an allegory that was intended to tell a primitive people about what created them (more so than how) at least aren't contradicting reality. So they are respectable in that way. But they are still illogical. They have no justification for their beliefs (which is why it's called "faith" instead of "science"). If there are simple processes that have been theorized that are compatible with the laws of nature and require no supernatural contribution, science does not allow the addition of some supernatural contributing factor.

Further, even if we DON'T know what caused a certain thing in the past, that does not allow a logical conclusion that "God did it", because that would be a logical fallacy (argument from ignorance). The only conclusion one can logically draw is "we don't know" and then seek out new information.
So lets say that what Moses wrote was his interpretation of the vision that was given him and it may not be exactly how it happened. What if the matter that God used was from another, or several other planets that had dissipated? That's the thought that I have had on the matter.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100697 Apr 23, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>No. Oversimplification and lack of understanding abound. Things that suddenly occur to you without any basis are generally stupid thoughts you should discard.

Atheists don't simply believe that God does not exist. A proper way to look at it would be: atheists do not believe that the existence of a God has been demonstrated to be true based on evidence. The vast, VAST majority of atheists would gladly believe in a God that can be proven to exist. Ask around.

And your silly implications and assertions about why atheists tend to seek out knowledge, actually read your Bible, and generally know more about religion than theists are just baseless stupidity. Atheists, in my experience, are generally highly intelligent logic based individuals that seek out knowledge. And they were that way before they became atheists. You know, back when a large percentage of them were practicing Christians. It's the process of seeking and thinking that leads one to atheism.

It's not like they never read a book (including the Bible), suddenly became an atheist for no good reason, and now God is compelling them to seek salvation through the Bible.
I've said many times that I believe that one of the main reasons we are here is to have our faith tested. So what if I'm right? What if all the efforts of atheists were wasted trying to tell those with faith that they need proof, when they already know that proof will never come? The knowledge would come quickly once they die but are still aware of their surroundings. So then what? What then? I've always wanted to know what they think their thoughts would be at that moment, but no one will pause and be open minded enough to humor me with a response other than how stupid I am for believing in God. Can someone answer me with an open mind?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#100698 Apr 23, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>This isn't the 1800s. We now have fossil records and understand mitochondrial DNA. The preponderance of current evidence supports this theory.
http://books.google.com/books...
http://books.google.com/books...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

I don't know if you really thought there was no evidence to support the theory (how?) or what else you might have thought, but those references would be good ways to educate yourself on this subject.
I had no agenda. Just wanted to know. Thanks, I'll look at this when I get a minute.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#100700 Apr 23, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
OK...Now,

I'm not trying to diminish your faith, as long as you're acknowledging that is what you have. I am trying to simply explain that what you have IS ONLY faith and that there is NO logical/reasonable/scientific way to state that God exists. Any argument to the contrary, without new evidence, is of absolutely no value. If religious people would recognize that, you'd probably find that all of the atheists you keep battling would simply disappear.
Also, LOL @ "their hope was completely ill-founded". Really? You really think we're going to believe that's not a full time Christian?
My beliefs are based on Faith,I will readily acknowledge that,but,it is not blind faith.
I will also agree that there is NO logical/reasonable/scientific way to state that God exists,at least,not that I know of.
I have tried to explain the basis for my faith and not surprisingly,I was mocked.
There came a time in my life where I had to turn to God,in order to solve a problem was facing.
I did so,reluctantly a) I questioned God's existence,therefore,it appeared foolish,to pray to someone or something you don't accept as being real.
My situation,to me,was very painful,so I prayed nevertheless.
On the same day,same date and about the same time when I directed my prayer to God, for a positive response to my my very specific prayer ,another event was occuring that led to the solution of my problem.
Could that have been a coincidence,yes....but ,it raised some doubts in my mind,could it have been God?
T
Through the years,I have found myself in other situations that have caused me to turn to God in prayer,with equally positive results. These results caused me to use my reasoning and logic in order to arrive at a conclusion.
If,I pray to God for an answer to my prayer and that request is answered,then using my reasoning and logic,I can come to one of two conclusions,Either ,the result was coincidental or God answered my prayer.
If,I am unable to explain how these coincidences occurred,then I might conclude that the results were based on luck,the power which controls odds and which brings good or bad fortune.
The problem with arriving at that conclusion is that I did not wish for a solution,nor did I hope that good luck would resolve my problems,hoping that the odds were and would continue to be,in my favor.
That is what gamblers hope for,based on wishful thinking.
.I prayed specifically to God to provide me with a solution,having faith that he would respond.
Therefore,based on the results that I received when I prayed to God,I concluded that it was God who answered my prayer
In order to arrive at that conclusion,I used my reasoning powers and logic
The positive responses and other events that took place in my life,allowed my faith to grow.
There are some who will mock me,that is to be expected..
The Scriptures tell me so
That is their problem,,,,Their problem is my blessing....As it confirms the validity of what Christ stated would happen.....Thereby causing my faith to grow
If anyone chooses to respond,they should keep this in mind
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something
Those to whom this saying applies,know exactly who I am referring to.
Insofar as the Atheist in question,I don't know her.
Why she wrote what she did,I do not know.
I can neither validate or reject her views,as I am not qualified and the allegations you have made,can only be answered by her

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#100701 Apr 23, 2013
"The greater your ignorance, the more evidence you have for the existence of God."

No god, just religies with nothing.
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100702 Apr 23, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think the Bible is "just" about "a" God? I find that concept quite limited of any actual, real "thought".
no where in that whole book i wrote there did i say that i think the bible is "just" about "a" god. can u explain how u get that from this post and maybe i can explain what it is that u are wantin to know. i do think the book is about a god tho becuz it is about a god. it is about the jewish god. i dont quite get what u are sayin by limited of any actual real "thought" becuz the only other option is a book about many gods and it can kind of be argued that even the jewish god recognizes other gods cuz of the no other gods before me commandment but the book itseslf is just a book about a (as in one, Jehova) god.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#100703 Apr 23, 2013
http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordpress/wp-c...

Lol, religies and their super sky critter, poof. Toasted religious nuts from a burning bush.
Gobledegook

Ocoee, FL

#100704 Apr 23, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do Mormons think that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?
Answer me this;
Why do you believe that it is further to New York if you take a bus?
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100705 Apr 23, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I was reading what you posted and suddenly,a thought occurred to me.
Atheists believe that God does not exist, if one believes something does not exist,it does not make much sense to debate whether it exists or not.
Although Atheists do not believe in God,they are unable to get that which they don't believe in,off their minds.
Somehow,this entity they claim does not exist( God) has crept into their minds and they can not stop thinking about him.
As a result,they read the Bible,probably more frequently,than many of those who claim to be Christians.
And I asked myself,Why is it that God is on their minds and why do they read the Bible?
Then I read the Bible, where it states;
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth
Matthew 19:25-26
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying,“Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said,“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
and my question was answered.
Thanks for responding to what I posted.It helped answer a question for which I did not have an answer
and once again u think u know me and u have no clue so i will tell u why i know so much about the bible and its not cuz i sit and read it just so i can try to disprove it. i was at one time a church goer too. my parents and grandparents took me to church every sunday and guess what....i did believe at one time just as u do. i also gave a sermon or two when i was younger but as i began to read more and more of the bible so that i could be there for others seeking god and know answers for questions and things. but as i learned more and more of how the god of the old testament was and began to question things the whole religion seemed to fall flat of its face without any kind of sense of logic or rational. i think the whole story is just a feel good story so ppl dont have to realize that when u die u are dead, u are not special in this universe, u are just a speck of nothing on one small rock in a universe so vast that if it were created the god would be doin alot more things than just watching all of us on this little rock. and i dont see any creator makin something then torturing it forever for not being a slave to it, or atleast dont see a "loving" creator that the bible claims to have as one that would think torture for eternity is just for anything. and the only reason i come here and tell these things is that maybe i can save someone from a life of slavery like the church wants them to live. u only get one go at so u should enjoy it in any way u want as long as u arent hurtin anyone else. no one should be afraid that if they masturbate they will burn in hell for eternity.....lmao that is the kind of stupidity that religion brings to the ppl of this earth. another example of stupidity from faith.....suicide bombers for allah. good ppl do good things and bad ppl do bad things but it takes a god to make good ppl do bad things.
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100706 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do we know Africa is where the first humans began?
becuz of the ages of the fossils found as well as dna traced all back to to african descent. one interesting thing u should know that most dont know...there is a small tribe of ppl still in africa who has a different dna record that no other ppl in the world has so they come from a total different dna ancestor. from what i have read and sen fromt he studies all humans trace back to a single mans dna and a single womans dna except for the one tribe i just talked about, but the problem is the number of generations for the man is about 70K-100K yrs newer than the womans. so somewhere along the line there were dna lines that have been lost. proof is the tribe in africa that the dna doesnt trace back to the woman or man that the rest of us trace back to.
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100707 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I've said many times that I believe that one of the main reasons we are here is to have our faith tested. So what if I'm right? What if all the efforts of atheists were wasted trying to tell those with faith that they need proof, when they already know that proof will never come? The knowledge would come quickly once they die but are still aware of their surroundings. So then what? What then? I've always wanted to know what they think their thoughts would be at that moment, but no one will pause and be open minded enough to humor me with a response other than how stupid I am for believing in God. Can someone answer me with an open mind?
i have actually thought of what i would say to god if it were true when i die and to be honest i know exactly what i would say. i would just say, "u know why my mind works the way it does and for u to forsake me and not give me the proof i need for your existence just goes to show that i was never loved to begin with. i was born with a ticket to hell already becuz i did try to believe and the more i tried, the more i doubted and u, yourself, left me dry with no answers when i need u the most. so i ask u now god, why did u never love me as u did the others children that u gave the miracles to so that they would know of your love and existence? why did u never care that i was strayin from the truth and step in so that i wouldnt have to face torture of hell for eternity? i guess all i can say is F*&K YOU TOO, cuz thats what u were sayin to me my whole life by turnin your back to me and never even opening my heart up to your love." notice i dont respect my father if he doesnt deserve it so im a commandment violator now. but why try to beg and plea for your life when its to late, just accpet it and walk in to hell with your head held high is all i can say. call what i say BS or what ever u will but that is the honest truth as to what i would say cuz i got tired of hearin the same ol what are u gonna say when u die and u have to face him, then u will regret it, so i gave it some real thought as to what i feel i should say to god as i am being sentenced to hell.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100708 Apr 23, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why thank you, hope you enjoyed stating YOUR opinion.
Not opinion. I didn't say "spaghetti is really good!". Those were fact.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be happy to clear a few things up for you, but this is based upon the assumption that one can comprehend the difference between ones own opinion, from that of the opinions of others, and hopefully that basis will not be too difficult to understand for you..
Condescension does not suit one of your meager abilities. You are incapable of clearing anything up for anyone because you don't deal in reality.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I have no idea why you even used the word "agenda". Are you making some sort of direct personal accusation against me, and could you please explain yourself for doing so?
Or at least, please explain whatever it is you're talking about, as I have no idea what you are referencing, nor any respect, for it at all, as anyone who accuses anyone else for no viable reason, out of the arrogance of ignorance, just breed contemptible disdain.
Holy sh!t, try English. Do you really not see how illegible that mess is?

Anyway, if you would look up the word you are so confused about, you'd see that "an underlying often ideological plan or program" is what applies to you. And the word was used because it was one of the two possible scenarios that would produce babble like "Why some of us even find the BS that it has to be "either" the BB or Creationism, utterly contemptible, severely lacking and devoid of much of any logic at all."
To explain further, either you simply don't understand logic and are being genuine in your statement, OR you do understand it (and how there is NO logic in what you profess) but are pushing forward due to your agenda. Hopefully that clarifies.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
2. I have stated repeatedly, time and time again, I personally do not think the Bible as whole, should ever be read as strictly "literal" finding even the thought of that to be rather foolish. So, again, could you please explain whatever it is YOU are referencing? Is that idealogue something you perhaps find logical and in agreement with?
What I am referencing? I made it clear. Try reading. You talked of creationism, I said "Literal interpretations of Genesis (AKA "creationism")" . There is no disconnect that doesn't exist solely in your head.
If you didn't intend to use that word to describe the belief everybody else thinks it means, improve your communication skills and quit acting like others fail at it.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
3. I do not think the Bible was transcribed to "tell" a "primitive people" anything, I think it was transcribed for quite the opposite reason, much more as a journal writer would record thoughts and insights, as well as instances of the times one might be living in, and perhaps even, much more so for FUTURE civilizations to reference, which is possibly why, the Bible has survived so well since Antiquity, as enough people through out history, saw fitting to do so.
This is, again, not English. WTF are you even trying to say?
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
So, I believe, we are at polar opposites on THAT opinion.
That is NOT my opinion. What are you reading, because it definitely isn't what I'm writing.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
4. We have already LONG since established the differences in meaning between "faith" and "Science", on this thread, and I really don't think there are many people that do NOT know the difference, so I just find that statement, more redundancy, and really quite needless, as any FIFTH grader can use a dictionary these days.
No, we obviously haven't. Despite your poor insults, YOU are the moron that keeps saying your beliefs are logical. You don't know what faith is. You don't know what logic is. Read and understand: Faith does not require logic. It requires absence of logic.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100709 Apr 23, 2013
Your own words were:
"LOGIC: A person would have logical FAITH in something that is proven to be WORTHY of it...such as surgical abilities.

ILLOGICAL: To blindly follow some lame lemming herd pack of HATRED, that knows NOTHING of what they speak of...with NO ability other than to insylt others WITH ability."

And yes, they are insane, but the point is that we already have definitions for logic that everyone uses. We don't need your made up stupidity. I stand by what I said previously:

Nobody that understands logic would state that faith is logical. It is not. They are mutually exclusive. The application of faith requires committing multiple logical fallacies (false cause, personal incredulity, begging the question, black or white, etc.).

Until you can logically demonstrate your claims, you're just another in a long line of idiots that just can't deal with the fact that their faith is baseless. Saying how logical it is doesn't make it so.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
5. I for one, have NEVER used the ignorant phrase of "God did it" especially in mockery of others, as I find anyone who Would use such a phrase in that manner, to be just petulant, nettlesome and fractious...obnoxiousness on the same par Mentality level of a belligerent, self absorbed adolescent.
You need to reign the insults in if you're going to keep typing like a drunken 10 year old.

Here's the thing. Every single time you attempt to spread your faith, you are essentially standing on a mountain screaming "GOD DID IT!!!!". Just because you don't utter the exact words doesn't mean that you aren't characterized by my little hyperbole.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
6. I have already explained my personal hypothesis on Creationism and Evolution... so that is something else, you and I do NOT agree on. I have no problem with parts of BOTH, theoretically AND philosophically.
It doesn't matter. I wasn't responding to that. I was responding to your stupid sentence that I quoted.

And really, stop calling things creationism if they aren't what most people are used to seeing labeled as such. It causes confusion for no reason other than you being hardheaded and not using better descriptors. Stop.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
6. Read back as MANY pages as you'd like, and you will HAVE to face the TRUTH then, in that I for one, have personally ALWAYS stated, I feel the turthful and logical, could ONLY state with any sort of actual unbiased contemplation, that indeed (aside from those of faith who chose to view from their OWN perspectives-to which they have every Constitutional right to) that the only other logical answer, based upon what evidentiary tangible references we do have, rather than just faith, is just to say "we do NOT know".
Is the above writings of MY OPINION too difficult to comprehend? I could try and simplify it even further if so.
Good at counting, too, I see. Counting and English. Utilization of nine commas and only one period is masterful.

I don't care what you think. I don't care what you have faith in. All I care about is what is. The words "we do not know" are basically the only ones that made any sense from the previous quote. Those words are logical and based on evidence. Your faith is not. Figure that out.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100710 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I've said many times that I believe that one of the main reasons we are here is to have our faith tested. So what if I'm right? What if all the efforts of atheists were wasted trying to tell those with faith that they need proof, when they already know that proof will never come? The knowledge would come quickly once they die but are still aware of their surroundings. So then what? What then? I've always wanted to know what they think their thoughts would be at that moment, but no one will pause and be open minded enough to humor me with a response other than how stupid I am for believing in God. Can someone answer me with an open mind?
I always have an open mind.

If we are here to have our faith tested, then God has failed. There are billions of people on this planet, as I type this, that have never been introduced to any religion (much less yours). All they have is their abilities to observe and draw conclusions based on observations. These people never had even the tiniest glimmer of faith to begin with. There is no reason to believe they will have any when they die. How is that lack of faith tested? Why didn't God give them any faith or knowledge of him? What is their fate?

I've honestly never had any more faith in God than I had in Santa or anything else that I was told about and didn't question at the time. They were all built up and portrayed to be real when I was a child. Every one of them have tumbled down under mild scrutiny. I have no faith to test.

Omniscience and omnipotence. God destroyed my faith with the brain he gave me, and he always knew that I would use my brain in this way. I was created to do exactly that. So, was I created to be damned? Am I to be punished for how God made me?
Guardian Angel

Charleston, WV

#100711 Apr 23, 2013
If you believe God give you that Brain,just believeing that proves you have faith.If you believe God made you that way ,therefore you have faith.God gave us all free will.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#100712 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally DO enjoy the humble words of the man history has presented via the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
You have a problem with that?
Too baduh for YOU then-you (and other haters of GOODNESS) can kiss my wholesome lettuce sowing, radish loving, green bean raising behind.
(and don't promote ANY of that vileness of perversions NEAR any of MY underage charges-because I would scratch eyeballs out over it!)
Killing innocent people is what you call good? Wow, you are vile.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#100713 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
and why would you think Jesus actually ever physically visited the US?
It is a subtle jab at our Mormon friends:

"The Book of Mormon tells of the resurrected Jesus Christ and His visit to His faithful followers in ancient America. After His visits to His disciples in the Old World, He descended out of heaven and appeared to His followers in ancient America.

The Book of Mormon describes how, during His visit, Jesus Christ healed their sick, taught them His gospel, blessed their children, and called twelve disciples to organize His Church in the Americas (3 Nephi 11:18; 3 Nephi 12:1-2)."

Also, I have read about plate tectonics. I am not a scientist so I have not studied the matter in the proper sense. Why do you ask?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#100714 Apr 24, 2013
Guardian Angel wrote:
If you believe God give you that Brain,just believeing that proves you have faith.If you believe God made you that way ,therefore you have faith.God gave us all free will.
You misunderstood the poster's intent. He (or she?) said:

"God destroyed my faith with the brain he gave me, and he always knew that I would use my brain in this way. I was created to do exactly that. So, was I created to be damned? Am I to be punished for how God made me?"

These are rhetorical questions. That is, the poster is not asserting that God *literally* created him with a brain. He is asking the question IF God created me, THEN he created me with this brain. Therefore he created me with the very tool that would make it impossible for me to believe in him.

Atheism is a result of skepticism, or it is not really atheism at all. And skepticism is a result of applying reason to what we observe in the world and what we think about it. The opposite is allowing emotion to steer. Faith is based on emotion, not reason.

There is a place for emotion. I would argue that emotion is sort of the reason to have reason. Otherwise what are you really doing? But if you let emotion lead the way you will go down dead end alleys all the time.

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