Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 132,260

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100705 Apr 23, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I was reading what you posted and suddenly,a thought occurred to me.
Atheists believe that God does not exist, if one believes something does not exist,it does not make much sense to debate whether it exists or not.
Although Atheists do not believe in God,they are unable to get that which they don't believe in,off their minds.
Somehow,this entity they claim does not exist( God) has crept into their minds and they can not stop thinking about him.
As a result,they read the Bible,probably more frequently,than many of those who claim to be Christians.
And I asked myself,Why is it that God is on their minds and why do they read the Bible?
Then I read the Bible, where it states;
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth
Matthew 19:25-26
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying,“Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said,“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
and my question was answered.
Thanks for responding to what I posted.It helped answer a question for which I did not have an answer
and once again u think u know me and u have no clue so i will tell u why i know so much about the bible and its not cuz i sit and read it just so i can try to disprove it. i was at one time a church goer too. my parents and grandparents took me to church every sunday and guess what....i did believe at one time just as u do. i also gave a sermon or two when i was younger but as i began to read more and more of the bible so that i could be there for others seeking god and know answers for questions and things. but as i learned more and more of how the god of the old testament was and began to question things the whole religion seemed to fall flat of its face without any kind of sense of logic or rational. i think the whole story is just a feel good story so ppl dont have to realize that when u die u are dead, u are not special in this universe, u are just a speck of nothing on one small rock in a universe so vast that if it were created the god would be doin alot more things than just watching all of us on this little rock. and i dont see any creator makin something then torturing it forever for not being a slave to it, or atleast dont see a "loving" creator that the bible claims to have as one that would think torture for eternity is just for anything. and the only reason i come here and tell these things is that maybe i can save someone from a life of slavery like the church wants them to live. u only get one go at so u should enjoy it in any way u want as long as u arent hurtin anyone else. no one should be afraid that if they masturbate they will burn in hell for eternity.....lmao that is the kind of stupidity that religion brings to the ppl of this earth. another example of stupidity from faith.....suicide bombers for allah. good ppl do good things and bad ppl do bad things but it takes a god to make good ppl do bad things.
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100706 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do we know Africa is where the first humans began?
becuz of the ages of the fossils found as well as dna traced all back to to african descent. one interesting thing u should know that most dont know...there is a small tribe of ppl still in africa who has a different dna record that no other ppl in the world has so they come from a total different dna ancestor. from what i have read and sen fromt he studies all humans trace back to a single mans dna and a single womans dna except for the one tribe i just talked about, but the problem is the number of generations for the man is about 70K-100K yrs newer than the womans. so somewhere along the line there were dna lines that have been lost. proof is the tribe in africa that the dna doesnt trace back to the woman or man that the rest of us trace back to.
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#100707 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I've said many times that I believe that one of the main reasons we are here is to have our faith tested. So what if I'm right? What if all the efforts of atheists were wasted trying to tell those with faith that they need proof, when they already know that proof will never come? The knowledge would come quickly once they die but are still aware of their surroundings. So then what? What then? I've always wanted to know what they think their thoughts would be at that moment, but no one will pause and be open minded enough to humor me with a response other than how stupid I am for believing in God. Can someone answer me with an open mind?
i have actually thought of what i would say to god if it were true when i die and to be honest i know exactly what i would say. i would just say, "u know why my mind works the way it does and for u to forsake me and not give me the proof i need for your existence just goes to show that i was never loved to begin with. i was born with a ticket to hell already becuz i did try to believe and the more i tried, the more i doubted and u, yourself, left me dry with no answers when i need u the most. so i ask u now god, why did u never love me as u did the others children that u gave the miracles to so that they would know of your love and existence? why did u never care that i was strayin from the truth and step in so that i wouldnt have to face torture of hell for eternity? i guess all i can say is F*&K YOU TOO, cuz thats what u were sayin to me my whole life by turnin your back to me and never even opening my heart up to your love." notice i dont respect my father if he doesnt deserve it so im a commandment violator now. but why try to beg and plea for your life when its to late, just accpet it and walk in to hell with your head held high is all i can say. call what i say BS or what ever u will but that is the honest truth as to what i would say cuz i got tired of hearin the same ol what are u gonna say when u die and u have to face him, then u will regret it, so i gave it some real thought as to what i feel i should say to god as i am being sentenced to hell.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100708 Apr 23, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why thank you, hope you enjoyed stating YOUR opinion.
Not opinion. I didn't say "spaghetti is really good!". Those were fact.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be happy to clear a few things up for you, but this is based upon the assumption that one can comprehend the difference between ones own opinion, from that of the opinions of others, and hopefully that basis will not be too difficult to understand for you..
Condescension does not suit one of your meager abilities. You are incapable of clearing anything up for anyone because you don't deal in reality.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I have no idea why you even used the word "agenda". Are you making some sort of direct personal accusation against me, and could you please explain yourself for doing so?
Or at least, please explain whatever it is you're talking about, as I have no idea what you are referencing, nor any respect, for it at all, as anyone who accuses anyone else for no viable reason, out of the arrogance of ignorance, just breed contemptible disdain.
Holy sh!t, try English. Do you really not see how illegible that mess is?

Anyway, if you would look up the word you are so confused about, you'd see that "an underlying often ideological plan or program" is what applies to you. And the word was used because it was one of the two possible scenarios that would produce babble like "Why some of us even find the BS that it has to be "either" the BB or Creationism, utterly contemptible, severely lacking and devoid of much of any logic at all."
To explain further, either you simply don't understand logic and are being genuine in your statement, OR you do understand it (and how there is NO logic in what you profess) but are pushing forward due to your agenda. Hopefully that clarifies.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
2. I have stated repeatedly, time and time again, I personally do not think the Bible as whole, should ever be read as strictly "literal" finding even the thought of that to be rather foolish. So, again, could you please explain whatever it is YOU are referencing? Is that idealogue something you perhaps find logical and in agreement with?
What I am referencing? I made it clear. Try reading. You talked of creationism, I said "Literal interpretations of Genesis (AKA "creationism")" . There is no disconnect that doesn't exist solely in your head.
If you didn't intend to use that word to describe the belief everybody else thinks it means, improve your communication skills and quit acting like others fail at it.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
3. I do not think the Bible was transcribed to "tell" a "primitive people" anything, I think it was transcribed for quite the opposite reason, much more as a journal writer would record thoughts and insights, as well as instances of the times one might be living in, and perhaps even, much more so for FUTURE civilizations to reference, which is possibly why, the Bible has survived so well since Antiquity, as enough people through out history, saw fitting to do so.
This is, again, not English. WTF are you even trying to say?
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
So, I believe, we are at polar opposites on THAT opinion.
That is NOT my opinion. What are you reading, because it definitely isn't what I'm writing.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
4. We have already LONG since established the differences in meaning between "faith" and "Science", on this thread, and I really don't think there are many people that do NOT know the difference, so I just find that statement, more redundancy, and really quite needless, as any FIFTH grader can use a dictionary these days.
No, we obviously haven't. Despite your poor insults, YOU are the moron that keeps saying your beliefs are logical. You don't know what faith is. You don't know what logic is. Read and understand: Faith does not require logic. It requires absence of logic.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100709 Apr 23, 2013
Your own words were:
"LOGIC: A person would have logical FAITH in something that is proven to be WORTHY of it...such as surgical abilities.

ILLOGICAL: To blindly follow some lame lemming herd pack of HATRED, that knows NOTHING of what they speak of...with NO ability other than to insylt others WITH ability."

And yes, they are insane, but the point is that we already have definitions for logic that everyone uses. We don't need your made up stupidity. I stand by what I said previously:

Nobody that understands logic would state that faith is logical. It is not. They are mutually exclusive. The application of faith requires committing multiple logical fallacies (false cause, personal incredulity, begging the question, black or white, etc.).

Until you can logically demonstrate your claims, you're just another in a long line of idiots that just can't deal with the fact that their faith is baseless. Saying how logical it is doesn't make it so.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
5. I for one, have NEVER used the ignorant phrase of "God did it" especially in mockery of others, as I find anyone who Would use such a phrase in that manner, to be just petulant, nettlesome and fractious...obnoxiousness on the same par Mentality level of a belligerent, self absorbed adolescent.
You need to reign the insults in if you're going to keep typing like a drunken 10 year old.

Here's the thing. Every single time you attempt to spread your faith, you are essentially standing on a mountain screaming "GOD DID IT!!!!". Just because you don't utter the exact words doesn't mean that you aren't characterized by my little hyperbole.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
6. I have already explained my personal hypothesis on Creationism and Evolution... so that is something else, you and I do NOT agree on. I have no problem with parts of BOTH, theoretically AND philosophically.
It doesn't matter. I wasn't responding to that. I was responding to your stupid sentence that I quoted.

And really, stop calling things creationism if they aren't what most people are used to seeing labeled as such. It causes confusion for no reason other than you being hardheaded and not using better descriptors. Stop.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
6. Read back as MANY pages as you'd like, and you will HAVE to face the TRUTH then, in that I for one, have personally ALWAYS stated, I feel the turthful and logical, could ONLY state with any sort of actual unbiased contemplation, that indeed (aside from those of faith who chose to view from their OWN perspectives-to which they have every Constitutional right to) that the only other logical answer, based upon what evidentiary tangible references we do have, rather than just faith, is just to say "we do NOT know".
Is the above writings of MY OPINION too difficult to comprehend? I could try and simplify it even further if so.
Good at counting, too, I see. Counting and English. Utilization of nine commas and only one period is masterful.

I don't care what you think. I don't care what you have faith in. All I care about is what is. The words "we do not know" are basically the only ones that made any sense from the previous quote. Those words are logical and based on evidence. Your faith is not. Figure that out.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100710 Apr 23, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I've said many times that I believe that one of the main reasons we are here is to have our faith tested. So what if I'm right? What if all the efforts of atheists were wasted trying to tell those with faith that they need proof, when they already know that proof will never come? The knowledge would come quickly once they die but are still aware of their surroundings. So then what? What then? I've always wanted to know what they think their thoughts would be at that moment, but no one will pause and be open minded enough to humor me with a response other than how stupid I am for believing in God. Can someone answer me with an open mind?
I always have an open mind.

If we are here to have our faith tested, then God has failed. There are billions of people on this planet, as I type this, that have never been introduced to any religion (much less yours). All they have is their abilities to observe and draw conclusions based on observations. These people never had even the tiniest glimmer of faith to begin with. There is no reason to believe they will have any when they die. How is that lack of faith tested? Why didn't God give them any faith or knowledge of him? What is their fate?

I've honestly never had any more faith in God than I had in Santa or anything else that I was told about and didn't question at the time. They were all built up and portrayed to be real when I was a child. Every one of them have tumbled down under mild scrutiny. I have no faith to test.

Omniscience and omnipotence. God destroyed my faith with the brain he gave me, and he always knew that I would use my brain in this way. I was created to do exactly that. So, was I created to be damned? Am I to be punished for how God made me?
Guardian Angel

Charleston, WV

#100711 Apr 23, 2013
If you believe God give you that Brain,just believeing that proves you have faith.If you believe God made you that way ,therefore you have faith.God gave us all free will.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#100712 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally DO enjoy the humble words of the man history has presented via the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
You have a problem with that?
Too baduh for YOU then-you (and other haters of GOODNESS) can kiss my wholesome lettuce sowing, radish loving, green bean raising behind.
(and don't promote ANY of that vileness of perversions NEAR any of MY underage charges-because I would scratch eyeballs out over it!)
Killing innocent people is what you call good? Wow, you are vile.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#100713 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
and why would you think Jesus actually ever physically visited the US?
It is a subtle jab at our Mormon friends:

"The Book of Mormon tells of the resurrected Jesus Christ and His visit to His faithful followers in ancient America. After His visits to His disciples in the Old World, He descended out of heaven and appeared to His followers in ancient America.

The Book of Mormon describes how, during His visit, Jesus Christ healed their sick, taught them His gospel, blessed their children, and called twelve disciples to organize His Church in the Americas (3 Nephi 11:18; 3 Nephi 12:1-2)."

Also, I have read about plate tectonics. I am not a scientist so I have not studied the matter in the proper sense. Why do you ask?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#100714 Apr 24, 2013
Guardian Angel wrote:
If you believe God give you that Brain,just believeing that proves you have faith.If you believe God made you that way ,therefore you have faith.God gave us all free will.
You misunderstood the poster's intent. He (or she?) said:

"God destroyed my faith with the brain he gave me, and he always knew that I would use my brain in this way. I was created to do exactly that. So, was I created to be damned? Am I to be punished for how God made me?"

These are rhetorical questions. That is, the poster is not asserting that God *literally* created him with a brain. He is asking the question IF God created me, THEN he created me with this brain. Therefore he created me with the very tool that would make it impossible for me to believe in him.

Atheism is a result of skepticism, or it is not really atheism at all. And skepticism is a result of applying reason to what we observe in the world and what we think about it. The opposite is allowing emotion to steer. Faith is based on emotion, not reason.

There is a place for emotion. I would argue that emotion is sort of the reason to have reason. Otherwise what are you really doing? But if you let emotion lead the way you will go down dead end alleys all the time.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#100715 Apr 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
So lets say that what Moses wrote was his interpretation of the vision that was given him and it may not be exactly how it happened. What if the matter that God used was from another, or several other planets that had dissipated? That's the thought that I have had on the matter.
There are some problems with this.

1) According to all the Modern Bible Scholars, Moses could not possibly have authored any of the books of the Bible. And the Pentateuch, the first books of Genesis, were in fact authored by several different sources. So whose vision is being written about? On what authority are they assumed to be true?

2) Your version of God is more like a space superhero. He isn't all powerful, and you've said this before. He is just powerful. That idea undermines the entire Christian faith. The Bible claims that God is basically the be-all-end-all and you need him to be that powerful or else we can easily doubt the entire matter. Once you say that God doesn't know everything or can't do everything then why would we assume that any particular part of the Bible is speaking truth? Why would we assume God has any power over death? Your version of God robs him of all that and leaves behind a sort of Stan Lee/Jack Kirby type character.

And I don't think you have much of a reason to think that way. I think that you have just enough doubt that you are seeking a way to rationalize the crunchy bits of your faith that don't make sense. I say that speculatively, of course, but if its true then please keep digging away!

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100716 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point-a climb out onto Pangea would probably be a far more logical answer.
Pangea broke apart hundreds of millions of years ago, so the timeline does not fit.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#100717 Apr 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
So lets say that what Moses wrote was his interpretation of the vision that was given him and it may not be exactly how it happened. What if the matter that God used was from another, or several other planets that had dissipated? That's the thought that I have had on the matter.
Well when you have a book that billions declare is absolutely perfect in every way, this is a serious problem. For example, if one of your prophets claims homosexuality is an abomination and he never actually got that memo from a god and you think it is a memo from a god, then you might very well discriminate upon the homosexuals due to gross error.
TruthIs

Hazard, KY

#100718 Apr 24, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith does not require logic. It requires absence of logic.
Tell that to the MANY known scientists over time, who have easily and knowingly had the actual ability and rationality, and to have been of intelligence enough, to have possessed BOTH character traits.

Don't like the way I write MY opinions-don't read them, and do NOT even begin to try and force your OWN lamebrainedness of your own mere opinions on me,because it won't work, as I tend to scoff BS, right back at BS-ers.

Because I, like many OTHERS, do NOT need ANYONE else, to tell us what OUR OWN opinions are!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#100719 Apr 24, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I like this parable,very appropriate as to why Pharissees refused to believe in him,In spite of the miracles that Jesus performed in their midst,which they could not deny,but attributed the\m to Beelzebub
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him,‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied,‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered,‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied,‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said,‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him,‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Great point!
Probably the same reason most miracles today are private ones, and not the parting of the sea type things!
I know what Christ did with me, and every man be a liar, as I know the truth!
I would like for them all to have a "God" experience, and come back here, and tell their stories!
Amen!
God Bless :-)
How stupid can you be

Richmond, KY

#100720 Apr 24, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
So if prophets are just people, then why follow their commands as if they were words from a god? Did god say homosexuality is an abomination or was that just another flawed human some called a prophet?
Can you answer this? If not, then just say so.
Is a vagina made for a penis?
Anything else is perversion, an abomination against God, and nature!
case closed, end of story!

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100721 Apr 24, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to the MANY known scientists over time, who have easily and knowingly had the actual ability and rationality, and to have been of intelligence enough, to have possessed BOTH character traits.
Are you so dense that you believe they wouldn't agree with me?? Don't be stupid. I promise I know more than you, and they all do agree with me. A few of them go to church.

And those are not character traits, by the way. Do you really think faith is a "character trait"? No. Regardless of character, a person can have faith in something, and the same person can apply logic... but not to the same thing. Because they are mutually exclusive.
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't like the way I write MY opinions-don't read them, and do NOT even begin to try and force your OWN lamebrainedness of your own mere opinions on me,because it won't work, as I tend to scoff BS, right back at BS-ers.
Because I, like many OTHERS, do NOT need ANYONE else, to tell us what OUR OWN opinions are!
I don't care what your opinions are. The ones that are legible are stupid, and I'm sure the others would be similar if you took the time to form proper sentences to describe them. The whole point was that nobody can read your crap because you aren't properly utilizing your native language. But you're right that it's totally your prerogative to continue writing like you're brain damaged.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#100722 Apr 24, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that our surroundings and our experiences, in conjunction with the way we were raised, shapes who we become.
For example, one of my friends that is gay was badly picked on all through school. He grew up poor and did not have access to running water. The bullies capitalized and made his life tough until he got out of school. Once he started working and earning money, he moved away. But of course this stuck with him and he had a lot of social problems. He couldn't talk to girls because he got so nervous around them. He worked with mostly guys and he could always talk more openly with guys because he could be himself and not worry about impressing them. One of the guys that he worked with let it be known that he was gay, and over the course of about 5 years, they formed a relationship.
He said he is still more attracted to girls, but feels more comfortable around guys. He has no problem saying he wasn't born gay. In his case, it could be said that this was a choice. But it certainly doesn't seem like a cognizant choice that he made. It seems like he became a victim of his childhood.
That's how most of them are! They become comfortable in it, and then feel they are trapped into it... Christ brings freedom from that, and every other sin! Amen!
FluffyBunnyFuFu

Hazard, KY

#100723 Apr 24, 2013
Has FAITH, that frozen water au` naturale can be a mineral, based upon the internet AND LOGIC, of other pre-hypothesis evidentiary FACTS, of a scientific nature!

Aye-men.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#100724 Apr 24, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Great point!
Probably the same reason most miracles today are private ones, and not the parting of the sea type things!
"Private" miracles? Please. Can you name a single "private" miracle that cannot be explained through normal processes or random chance? I didn't think so. Because there are no miracles.
How stupid can you be wrote:
<quoted text>Is a vagina made for a penis?
Anything else is perversion, an abomination against God, and nature!
case closed, end of story!
There are plenty of other places to stick a penis that can be fun for both parties and are completely harmless. Those are all "abominations"?

No, they aren't. Abusing a child, sexually or otherwise, is an "abomination". Destroying a child's ability to think by forcing dogma on them is an "abomination". Condemning an entire group of people that aren't hurting anyone simply for being the way they were born to be is an "abomination".

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