Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 136728 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#99568 Apr 13, 2013
Bearsfan wrote:
I didn't read through all the comments, but I will say, I believe in the power of prayer. I was diagnosed with cancer almost 9 years ago. Things did not look good for me at all. I had many many people, friends and family praying for me, and I am cancer free today. I do not think all of it is due to medical science, I fully believe in divine intervention. I am convinced if not for all the prayers, I would not be here today. Even my Dr. was totally amazed.
I am VERY glad you doing good. That is awesome! I mean that with all sincerity.

But you are committing the fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc", the same as the other poster (do whut):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_pr...

"Latin for "after this, therefore because of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) that states "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." It is often shortened to simply post hoc."

You got sick. People prayed. You got better. In your heart you want to believe it was God answering prayers. But didn't you go to the doctor? Did you do the standard cancer treatments?

Which is more likely:

1) You got sick, took medicine, and got better as a combination of medical care and the natural course of the illness.

2) People said prayers and a deity used its magic to fix you.

If you think #2 is more likely then how do you explain the millions of people who also receive prayers who do NOT recover in this way? Does God simply not love them?

Isn't it more likely that this is how nature works and that medical science - imperfect as it is - can in fact help?

Doesn't giving the glory to God sort of send a slap in the face of all the professionals who have fought this terrible set of diseases with science and hard work? I think it does.

I also think it is a dangerous message to send. Have you read any of the news stories about people who believe so much in God and prayers that they simply didn't go to the doctor...and died? There was that teenage boy last year who had a leg injury and his parents - Christians who shun medicine - didn't take him to the hospital. They just prayed. So his leg got infected and he died a miserable, painful death.

God had something against that kid?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#99569 Apr 13, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No no. His father holds the priesthood. No priest was called. All worthy males in the LDS Church hold the priesthood.
Except the black ones. They aren't white and delightsome.

Oh..wait...your Prophet got a revelation or phone call from God in the 70s that said, reluctantly, the dark ones can have the Priesthood too.

Kinda right in line with the victories of the Civil Rights movement. Huh...funny that. Sort of like Joseph Smith getting a revelation from God that it's ok to marry multiple women...after he had already been doing multiple women in secret.

Nice.
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

#99570 Apr 13, 2013
what wrote:
<quoted text>
and science will solve the questions and give real answers instead of lettin ppl be ignorant to reality forever and just say God did it. and once science proves it u will have to adjust your whole "truth" to include the real truth just as they did about the earth being flat and earth being the center of the universe, and the earth sitting still as the sun revolved around it and all those other things that god didnt even know how worked until a scientist informed him. for a creator he sure is forgetful of his creation.
And until that day, that proves or disproves that wich we do NOT know, I will keep my faith as well, for all the right reasons.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#99571 Apr 13, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you do. Just as you doubt anything that happened in the Bible. Anything short of Jesus Christ appearing before each individual to perform a miracle that could not have happened medically would not be enough for most people to believe. And even then people would question what they had seen. It's human nature.
This wasn't a claim, this happened to someone. It's not a theory.
And I have other stories that I was personally a witness to that have convinced me that prayer works. I have shared them on here before.
See my previous post to Bearsfan because it is intended to answer this one too.

Here's one of the problems I have with what you're saying.

Let's say you have a friend who falls off a ladder and breaks his neck. He's lying on the ground, dying. You pray for him. Immediately following your prayer he wakes up, rubs his neck, gets up, and walks away.

That would be AMAZING. But guess what? It would not be proof that prayer works. That is not how we evaluate extreme claims. Now, if he was bleeding and you applied pressure to the wound we could say the pressure helped stop the bleeding. We've seen that a million times and we know it works.

Prayer is magic. We have no evidence or experience with magic. So making a claim that magic works, even in the extreme neck breaking example, would not be sufficient to prove it. You would have to produce some kind of viable hypothesis and then do experiments or observations to support the hypothesis.

We have done this several times with prayer. Prayer has no efficacy in controlled studies. So the only way to believe in it is to simply have faith. And faith is NOT reality. It is just faith. Baseless, empty, and irrational.

I know that isn't something you will accept but it is a fact. This is how reality works and this is how we navigate reality. We do not do it by faith, we do it by reason and evidence. Otherwise we would have prayed polio away instead of doing it with science.
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

#99572 Apr 13, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
So let me get this right God is a Human Being in a Human Body? Just has magical powers to go between dimensional states, make new human beings out of dirt and rib bones, create planets, stars and galaxies but has to write down his rules on rocks that men can break on a stump... Really? And you don't think sounds kinda Goofy?
Not if anyone is thinking in quarks.
GWB

Roseville, CA

#99573 Apr 13, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't remember that story but it sounds like a parlor trick with no real purpose. I have only witnessed answered prayers on things that help people.
The talking snake in the garden of eden did have a purpose.
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

#99574 Apr 13, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I am VERY glad you doing good. That is awesome! I mean that with all sincerity.
But you are committing the fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc", the same as the other poster
The healing environment approach is a holistic concept that aims to avoid exposing patients and their visitors to stressors that will inhibit the healing process; for this, effects should be mobilised that will support the overall outcome. Research in this field is carried out in the following areas:

1. Connection of patients/family to nature
2. Social and emotional support
3. Elimination of stressors in the hospital environment
4. Positive distractions
5. Patient information and behavioural change (patient education);
6. Medical process, structures and outcome quality (e.g. Fast Track Surgery).
The basic pillars of this approach are evidence-based design, patient-focused organisational culture and medical capability.
A healing environment
- creates rituals and organisational help that encourages patients’ healing supportive behaviour
- enables learning and dealing with disease and recovery
-l elevates compliance in the sense of positive attitude towards the healing and the rehabilitation process.
Effects:
- quicker subjectively experienced recovery and mobility
- shorter stays
- lower costs for hospitals and patients
- higher patient and healthcare worker satisfaction.

von Eiff, M. The_healing_environment. EUROPEAN HOSPITAL. Web. Retrieved 4/13/2013

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#99575 Apr 13, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Not if anyone is thinking in quarks.
GWB

Roseville, CA

#99576 Apr 13, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
See my previous post to Bearsfan because it is intended to answer this one too.
Here's one of the problems I have with what you're saying.
Let's say you have a friend who falls off a ladder and breaks his neck. He's lying on the ground, dying. You pray for him. Immediately following your prayer he wakes up, rubs his neck, gets up, and walks away.
That would be AMAZING. But guess what? It would not be proof that prayer works. That is not how we evaluate extreme claims. Now, if he was bleeding and you applied pressure to the wound we could say the pressure helped stop the bleeding. We've seen that a million times and we know it works.
Prayer is magic. We have no evidence or experience with magic. So making a claim that magic works, even in the extreme neck breaking example, would not be sufficient to prove it. You would have to produce some kind of viable hypothesis and then do experiments or observations to support the hypothesis.
We have done this several times with prayer. Prayer has no efficacy in controlled studies. So the only way to believe in it is to simply have faith. And faith is NOT reality. It is just faith. Baseless, empty, and irrational.
I know that isn't something you will accept but it is a fact. This is how reality works and this is how we navigate reality. We do not do it by faith, we do it by reason and evidence. Otherwise we would have prayed polio away instead of doing it with science.
YAA claims evidence of miracles, YAA has a jacket with bullet holes to show the rounds passed right thru his body and left no wounds, yet the jacket was ruined. I left claims of out casting out of demons for another time.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#99577 Apr 13, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
The talking snake in the garden of eden did have a purpose.
Obviously. Adam and Eve were the first audience and Satan was the first ventriloquist. Makes one wonder if Charlie McCarthy's mitochondrial DNA might be traced back to the tree of knowledge...?
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

#99578 Apr 13, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
See my previous post to Bearsfan because it is intended to answer this one too.
Here's one of the problems I have with what you're saying.
Let's say you have a friend who falls off a ladder and breaks his neck. He's lying on the ground, dying. You pray for him. Immediately following your prayer he wakes up, rubs his neck, gets up, and walks away.
That would be AMAZING. But guess what? It would not be proof that prayer works. That is not how we evaluate extreme claims. Now, if he was bleeding and you applied pressure to the wound we could say the pressure helped stop the bleeding. We've seen that a million times and we know it works.
Prayer is magic. We have no evidence or experience with magic. So making a claim that magic works, even in the extreme neck breaking example, would not be sufficient to prove it. You would have to produce some kind of viable hypothesis and then do experiments or observations to support the hypothesis.
We have done this several times with prayer. Prayer has no efficacy in controlled studies. So the only way to believe in it is to simply have faith. And faith is NOT reality. It is just faith. Baseless, empty, and irrational.
I know that isn't something you will accept but it is a fact. This is how reality works and this is how we navigate reality. We do not do it by faith, we do it by reason and evidence. Otherwise we would have prayed polio away instead of doing it with science.
In your example such would be an amazing miracle. In other instances however, the effects of prayer have been given serious regard...for whatever reasons. Besides, what's the harm of it, if people aren't blindly reliant when and if other options may benefit for the well being, especially if it's not harming, but rather instead, helping? To insult people over anything, just for the sake of arrogance and promotion solely of ones own persepctive, is just rude and vile.
----------
Spirituality and Prayer-How is it promoted for use?

Some proponents of spirituality in the context of health claim that prayer can decrease the negative effects of disease, speed recovery, and increase the effectiveness of medical treatments. Faith and religious beliefs are also thought to improve coping and provide comfort during illness. Attendance at religious events and services is sometimes linked with improvement of various health conditions such as heart disease, hypertension, stroke, colitis, cancers, and overall health status. Scientific evidence is mixed.

Certain religious groups claim prayer can cure any disease. These groups often rely entirely on prayer in place of conventional medicine. This belief is based on a spiritual rather than a biological explanation of how disease develops. There have been some reported cases of tumor regression occurring after prayer.(See our document, Faith Healing for more information.)

Many people believe the spiritual dimension is important when a person is coping with serious illness. The ability to find meaning in life can be helpful when dealing with cancer, even though it cannot cure the disease. Spirituality may also help us accept illness and death, both for ourselves and for those we love.

Referenced contributors to numerous to mention. The American Cancer Society. 12/7/2012. Web. Retrieved 4/13/2013.
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

#99579 Apr 13, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =LYZWP80opd4XX
I have cartoonish video ADHD....much prefer reading whenever possible, it's great for being able to form ones own opinion.

Quarks and Leptons are the building blocks which build up matter, i.e., they are seen as the "elementary particles". In the present standard model, there are six "flavors" of quarks. They can successfully account for all known mesons and baryons (over 200). The most familiar baryons are the proton and neutron, which are each constructed from up and down quarks. Quarks are observed to occur only in combinations of two quarks (mesons), three quarks (baryons). There was a recent claim of observation of particles with five quarks (pentaquark), but further experimentation has not borne it out.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#99580 Apr 13, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I have cartoonish video ADHD....much prefer reading whenever possible, it's great for being able to form ones own opinion.
Quarks and Leptons are the building blocks which build up matter, i.e., they are seen as the "elementary particles". In the present standard model, there are six "flavors" of quarks. They can successfully account for all known mesons and baryons (over 200). The most familiar baryons are the proton and neutron, which are each constructed from up and down quarks. Quarks are observed to occur only in combinations of two quarks (mesons), three quarks (baryons). There was a recent claim of observation of particles with five quarks (pentaquark), but further experimentation has not borne it out.
Well, if you want to be a stick in the mud, I suppose I could have posted this instead...
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pa...
why dont you know

Paris, KY

#99581 Apr 13, 2013
One of the reasons the first amendment was established was to protect religion from the government. But now it's been turned on it's head and is used to protect government from religion. And there is no separation of church and state. That phrase came from a private letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist minister and is not found in government documents but is used now as a reason to be hostile to religion. If our founding fathers could be aware of what has happened to their form of government, they would be spinning in their graves and wondering why we haven't thrown off the yoke of this modern version of government.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99582 Apr 13, 2013
what wrote:
<quoted text>every person taht has ever lived has told lies. even if Jeus lived u can guarentee he lied and i can show u a lie of his on the bible fromt he sermon on the mount when he said ppl there would never die before the kingdom passed and him and the father returned but to my knowledge there are no ppl alive that are over 2000 yrs old today. so that makes jesus himself a false prophet and shows he lied. why your friend lied i have no idea but if the ear healed in a dark closet and no one even saw it heal then who is to say it was cut at all. maybe the child was playin a joke on his mom and dad. and further more who would put their child ina dark closet with it bleeding that way and the ear being hangin off, that itself kinda shows your friends as not being all that great of parents. they should have been makin sure he wasnt goin in to shock and other things instead of puttin him in a closet and prayin for god to heal it. i have to call BS on this one too but u did say u had more stories that u your self witnessed so maybe u should tell us one of those so that u can prove your claim first hand. it would be easier when u know that whole thing and was part of the situation.
The reason he went into the dark was because his son was freaking out over seeing all the blood. How is that being a bad parent? I say that's being a quick thinker.
While he was in there with him the thought hit him to give him a priesthood blessing. And as I said, both parents saw his ear hanging by a thread. But I understand that a person so devoid of faith would have to see it for himself to believe such a miracle. I can picture you in there with a flashlight with eyes wide open. Haha

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99583 Apr 13, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>So let me get this right God is a Human Being in a Human Body? Just has magical powers to go between dimensional states, make new human beings out of dirt and rib bones, create planets, stars and galaxies but has to write down his rules on rocks that men can break on a stump... Really? And you don't think sounds kinda Goofy?
Anyone can describe the simplest activity the way you did and make it sound ridiculous.
Ex
So you mean to tell me you drink this white liquid and it travels trough magical tubes in your body and it comes out a different hole as a solid and it's no longer white?

God is not human the way we understand humanity, but He has a body of flesh and bone. It is a glorified body. But we are His children and have the opportunity to have the same type of body. We were born as spirits before this existence and came here to receive our body and have our faith tested. Our spirit and body will separate at death but because the atonement of Jesus Christ happened, we will be resurrected as He was. Our spirit will reunite with our body and it will be glorified as well. Not so much as a hair lost. Amputees will regain their limbs back with this eternal body.
As hokey as this may sound to you, let me ask you a question. I have fielded many of yours very respectfully. I hope you can open your mind and do the same for me.
If you died, and you were no longer in your body, but cognizant that you were awake and aware as a spirit and surrounded by others in the same state. What would your thoughts be then?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99584 Apr 13, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>Horsey Puckey Doo Doo.....
I don't expect you to believe it. It's a shame you can't though.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99585 Apr 13, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>What kind of DNA based brain would be able to hold all of the descriptors of every piece of information of the universe?
What kind of reasonable being defends the pre-bronze age notion that God created man instead of the simple and obvious truth that it was the other way around?
The age of a belief doesn't really matter. Pre historic fire still burns like fire today
Oxymoron

Glasgow, KY

#99586 Apr 13, 2013
Life's kinda like flowers and bumble bees. We're not all the same, but if we all work together there will be more flowers and honey for everyone, but when we don't, then life sucks.

God wishes that everyone LOVE everyone, but not everyone will do this, simply because many do not know the "Will of God" and many will not do it "WHEN they know". But for those who do know and do "The Will of God" they receive Eternal LIFE. This is what the Messiah Jesus Christ came to tell Man in sum, but many did not, and do not believe Him (John 14:6);(Mathew 7:21). To follow the "Will of the Father" men would have to lay their weapons down and seek “Peace” through LOVE for one another, but many refused to do this and many still refuse to do this, so the World continues on towards Armageddon.
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#99587 Apr 13, 2013
-NEPHILIM- wrote:
<quoted text>
How about you explain the "this generation" teaching that I had beat into my head growing up? The generation that was alive during 1914 that would not pass away? What's the new light on that one?
Pose your questions to:
The Watchtower
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, NY 11201
That way you can get your answer straight from their mouth!

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