Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,076

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#98785 Apr 6, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
GWB,My point is that,the theory of Evolution has been refuted.
To me,it is not valid,My belief in God,based on my Personal experiences,has convinced me that GOD DOES EXIST.,as I stated in a posting to SPECTACLES...Which,if you are interested in reading,should be about 4 or 5 posts before this one...
You have a blessed day
If the Theory of Evolution was refuted the person who did it would be a rock star and a household name.

So no, it has not been refuted.

Also, why does acceptance of possibly the most solid scientific theory in history have to result in you not believing in God?

Kenneth R. Miller is a famous scientist and author who is both a practicing Christian and a strong supporter of science education and the teaching of evolution in schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_R._Mille...

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#98786 Apr 6, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
That may have been what Lamarck thought, I can't speak to that. Your post seems to imply that effort / intent brings about adaptation. But that is not what evolution is about. Again, I'll refer you to the bright minds at Berkeley:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misc...
Lamarck was definitely wrong about how evolution works. And that is why we don't teach "Lamarckian Evolution".

However, the concept of epigenetics does seem to indicate that something remotely similar to what Lamarck thought might actually be true. It doesn't vindicate his idea since he was just making a sort of "common sense" observation. But it is interesting.

"In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype, caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence hence the name epi-(Greek: &#949;&#960;&#943; - over, above, outer)-genetics, some of which are heritable."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
little women

Morehead, KY

#98787 Apr 6, 2013
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
little women

Morehead, KY

#98788 Apr 6, 2013
This in the King James bible Jeremiah chapter 7 veres 21 -23 - God did NOT tell them to sacrifice animals 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#98789 Apr 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup, Not a clue.... It is actually depressing to see so many that have no burning desire to know just the small amount the the human species has learned in it's second of cosmic time on this tiny insignificant ball of rock and water..... There are of course several on this thread that have a thirst to learn but being in the hills of Kentucky I find it amazing how many never take the opportunity to seek knowledge that mankind has gathered over the centuries much less seek to find that yet to be known...
No doubt we agree on this. Science is the *best* tool we have to navigate this universe. I'd argue it is the only one that can do the trick. And I'd argue that science is the inevitable toolkit that comes out of the application of reason.

Here's something interesting, Q. You and I have some pretty big disagreements on certain ideas, such as the value of scientific consensus. Right? Now, we can discuss this disagreement rationally and make excellent points about it. We can have a reasoned debate and offer evidence to support our positions.

But if we were Christians of different faiths what would we argue about? The nature of sin? Once saved, always saved? Meaningless mental masturbation. I could just make up my own church, interpret the Bible how I wanted to, and I'd be on pretty much the same intellectual ground as anyone else when it comes down to pure faith.

I mean, what evidence can you possibly provide to support the argument that you are going to live forever when you die?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98790 Apr 6, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Lamarck was definitely wrong about how evolution works. And that is why we don't teach "Lamarckian Evolution".
However, the concept of epigenetics does seem to indicate that something remotely similar to what Lamarck thought might actually be true. It doesn't vindicate his idea since he was just making a sort of "common sense" observation. But it is interesting.
"In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype, caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence hence the name epi-(Greek: &#949;&#960;&#943; - over, above, outer)-genetics, some of which are heritable."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
Now this is interesting, thanks!
Now I have to think of a way to casually slip "transgenerational epigenetic inheritance phenomena" into a conversation.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98791 Apr 6, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
I call it a Jehovah's Witness filibuster, lol.
Call it what you want.To me,my personal experiences have all the validity I need for ME to believe in God. They are not based on someone else's opinions,or theories based on unobservable events that supposedly occurred billions of years ago,to which no one can attest to.
If you want to assume that nonliving matter,spontaneously came to life and by using suppositions,factually unexplainable and that through this process a marvelously made human species managed to emerge,that is your prerogative.
That,I can only describe as
Man,in his search for knowledge and wisdom,has attained unto foolishness
right

Morehead, KY

#98792 Apr 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup, Not a clue.... It is actually depressing to see so many that have no burning desire to know just the small amount the the human species has learned in it's second of cosmic time on this tiny insignificant ball of rock and water..... There are of course several on this thread that have a thirst to learn but being in the hills of Kentucky I find it amazing how many never take the opportunity to seek knowledge that mankind has gathered over the centuries much less seek to find that yet to be known...
This coming from a man who thinks his family-tree consists of a bunch of Apes !
right

Morehead, KY

#98793 Apr 6, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup, Not a clue.... It is actually depressing to see so many that have no burning desire to know just the small amount the the human species has learned in it's second of cosmic time on this tiny insignificant ball of rock and water..... There are of course several on this thread that have a thirst to learn but being in the hills of Kentucky I find it amazing how many never take the opportunity to seek knowledge that mankind has gathered over the centuries much less seek to find that yet to be known...
YUP? close enough to your grandpa's ughughhhh-proven fact you are truly a descendant of the Ape family. I posted your family tree of ape to man on the Morehead Topix photos.Go look. I'll give you a banana if you do.
right

Morehead, KY

#98794 Apr 6, 2013
No one should make fun or speak against people who believe in evolution. Studies have shown that certain people have memories (under hypnosis ) that prove they are descendants of Apes. These people were around before man was created in God's image.So today we have both types of people. One can easily spot those who descended from Apes,though they have almost normal IQ they tend to stand with shoulders dropped forward, have longer arms,and shorter legs. If messed with to the extent to provoke ,they will climb and swing from trees . So sorry if i offended any .
GWB

Roseville, CA

#98795 Apr 6, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Call it what you want.To me,my personal experiences have all the validity I need for ME to believe in God. They are not based on someone else's opinions,or theories based on unobservable events that supposedly occurred billions of years ago,to which no one can attest to.
If you want to assume that nonliving matter,spontaneously came to life and by using suppositions,factually unexplainable and that through this process a marvelously made human species managed to emerge,that is your prerogative.
That,I can only describe as
Man,in his search for knowledge and wisdom,has attained unto foolishness
Religious beliefs disprove each other using the same book. Why is that, if you are so sure you have the truth of mans existence?

You want eternal life and not be tortured by God. I understand that. If that helps you be a good law abiding citizen that's a good thing. You may never become a great scientist or great at anything but you can still try.

Science would like to prove if a God exists yet they cannot, you cannot prove it either. I do understand your fear of losing your belief. I'm still waiting for some christian to raise a dead person from the grave so scientist can witness, test and verify if God exists.

No, God cannot grow limbs on amputees, science will one day and you will say God did it.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98796 Apr 6, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be supremely misinformed about science.
However, if you have been doing these debates for a while then you have been exposed to actual information about how science works and the specifics of the Theory of Evolution. If that is the case, then you are *willfully ignorant* about this topic.
Go to these websites, for starters, and do some cursory, basic research on the science of evolution. Read it from the standpoint of a person who actually has in interest in truth. Then come back and have a discussion.
And I would offer this same advice to the others on here who are saying ridiculous things about science and holding cartoon views of evolution.
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.nas.edu/evolution/TheoryOrFact.htm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
Let me ask you a question,What do YOU know about GOD?
And,if you wanted to know if he existed or not,
How would you go about it?
And whatever method you chose,Why would you choose that particular method?
When you answer those questions,then I will be glad to have that discussion with you. That way .it will be a 2 sided discussion
Fair Enough?
TruthIs

Glenpool, OK

#98797 Apr 6, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the chocolate bunny was tasty.
No.
Yes, it's title is "Quite" The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking.
Warmer today than it was Thursday.
No.
Yes, the frogs are driving me crazy. Any tips on eradicating them from my back yard?
Yes, love the look of spring.
A little.
Peas.
Yes, but trying to cut back. Heard to much is bad.
Sometimes.
How have you been?
Can't complain :-). Glad you had a nice holiday!!!
(dunno on the frog thing though-kinda have the same issue lol)

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#98798 Apr 6, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>A smart person smelted Iron, and built the Maserati....
A smart entity put proteins together, and created DNA...
128^10 against that happing by chance...
ASTRONOMICAL IMPROBABLILITY!
128^10 you say? Hmmm.

That just happens to also be the odds of someone like YOU existing.
And yet....here you are.
Go figure.
little women

Morehead, KY

#98800 Apr 6, 2013
what wrote:
<quoted text>
u do realize evolution like u want to take place happens over billions of years and that humans havent even been on the earth even close to a million yrs yet? i couldnt expect much more i guess cuz u still believe a god that says the world will last a thousand but not thousands of yrs and then try to validate the world lasting longer than 2 thousand yrs by sayin we dont know the time scale that god uses or something to the effect that a day is a thousand yrs to god and a thousand yrs is a day or some other crazy thing just so u can validate believing in the false prophecy that the holy bible is full of.
What book are you getting your information on evolution from that is over a billion or even a million years old? Answer none. So for scientist to determine that something is a billion years old is preposterous.Evidence -there is nothing to compare it with. Just saying something is that old is not a scientific fact,where is the actual fossil,or etc. to compare the actual age with. The Bible actually tells of things happening thousands & thousands of years ago.(not just 2 thousand ,that was the time of which our lord Jesus came ). You are misinformed and confused,but no surprise,evolution has only been around a few hundred years or less. Evolution gives comfort to the feeble minded who fear death-thinking if they rule out god,they rule out hell . Some christians do not believe in hell either,but believe that the grave is hell,since they are forever separated from God.
PREVIOUS PATIENT AT KDMC

Alexandria, VA

#98801 Apr 6, 2013
right wrote:
No one should make fun or speak against people who believe in evolution. Studies have shown that certain people have memories (under hypnosis ) that prove they are descendants of Apes. These people were around before man was created in God's image.So today we have both types of people. One can easily spot those who descended from Apes,though they have almost normal IQ they tend to stand with shoulders dropped forward, have longer arms,and shorter legs. If messed with to the extent to provoke ,they will climb and swing from trees . So sorry if i offended any .
Are you for REAL?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#98802 Apr 6, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you a question,What do YOU know about GOD?
And,if you wanted to know if he existed or not,
How would you go about it?
And whatever method you chose,Why would you choose that particular method?
When you answer those questions,then I will be glad to have that discussion with you. That way .it will be a 2 sided discussion
Fair Enough?
Sure thing, glad you asked.

So if you are asking me literally what I now about God the answer is nothing. I don't believe in God, never seen a God, and since there is no record of anyone else ever seeing a God I can't really answer the question. If God exists then he either only shares information about himself with people privately and never allows himself to be observed or verified or he is absolutely outside of our reality.

Now, if you are asking me about my personal experience and knowledge about religion I do have some. I got saved when I was a lad and it was a terrifying experience. I spent a few years worrying about Hell then went through a short Jesus phase. Then all of that stuff quickly started to fall away and by the time I was 35 I was calling myself an atheist. I don't think I ever really believed. Some atheists did believe very strongly before losing their faith. I never did. I could never get past certain problems with religion.

For example, I could not accept that God is good and that he sends people to Hell. It made no sense to me even as a teenager. As I got older I started to expand that thought and I realized that a world in which kids can suffer painfully and die is not a world in which a loving God exists.

End of story for me.

But I have a really strong interest in religious beliefs, skepticism, and science. So I am fairly well versed in the various religions. Particularly the Christian sects since that is my heritage.

Now, if I was going to look for God I really have no idea how I'd go about doing that. I'm a naturalist. I don't do the whole praying thing and I don't do faith. If God doesn't have the common decency to leave me some overt and unambiguous evidence that he in fact does exist then I have no real way to ever find him. And it strikes me as a little dubious that he would create me with a rational mind that he knows will seek evidence, then provide me with no evidence.

Test of faith? Without some kind of firm evidence which faith am I to accept as the true one? Billions of people accept faiths other than Christianity with just as much passion and sincerity. How do I know they aren't the true ones?

There is no way to test for God. It is a magical idea that is not in the domain of nature and therefore outside of science. It is purely a matter of faith, not reason.

And that is why ideas such as Creationism are always rejected by science. They are also based on faith, not reason. Science is a product of reason. Faith is not in the recipe.
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

#98803 Apr 6, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you're copying and pasting your own BS posts again? You've already run out of "original" thoughts?
<quoted text>
No it's not. Isn't lying a sin in your world?
Here is something else that is not original but no evolutionist can answer: Which came first the Chicken or the egg?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#98804 Apr 6, 2013
little women wrote:
<quoted text>
What book are you getting your information on evolution from that is over a billion or even a million years old? Answer none. So for scientist to determine that something is a billion years old is preposterous.Evidence -there is nothing to compare it with. Just saying something is that old is not a scientific fact,where is the actual fossil,or etc. to compare the actual age with. The Bible actually tells of things happening thousands & thousands of years ago.(not just 2 thousand ,that was the time of which our lord Jesus came ). You are misinformed and confused,but no surprise,evolution has only been around a few hundred years or less. Evolution gives comfort to the feeble minded who fear death-thinking if they rule out god,they rule out hell . Some christians do not believe in hell either,but believe that the grave is hell,since they are forever separated from God.
Young Earth Creationists believe the Earth is 6000 years old, give or take. They arrived at this number by adding up the "begats" in the Jewish Bible.

Science comes up with dates from thousands or billions of years ago by a whole series of dating techniques. They measure the decay rates of radioactive isotopes, check the composition of a rock or fossil, then do the math on how long ago that rock or fossil must have come into being. Here's a link to a page that explains a lot of dating methods.

http://darwiniana.org/datingmethods.htm

And here's a list of various methods used:

Superposition
Stratigraphy
Dendrochronology
Radiocarbon C14
Radiometric Dating Methods
Obsidian Hydration Dating
Paleomagnetic/Archaeomagnetic
Luminescence Dating Methods
Amino Acid Racemization
Fission-track Dating
Ice Cores
Varves
Pollens
Corals
Cation Ratio
Fluorine Dating
Patination
Oxidizable Carbon Ratio
Electron Spin Resonance
Cosmic-ray Exposure Dating

And if you cross check these different lines of evidence they tend to confirm each other. In other words, using one method might get you a date of 1.2 billion years. Another method might get you 1.4. Another might get you 1.25. See the pattern? So when it comes to these really ancient dates the best you can do is get relatively close.

I mean seriously. If this isn't enough evidence for the accuracy of scientific dating methods then you are not a person who is capable of accepting evidence.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98805 Apr 6, 2013
GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
Religious beliefs disprove each other using the same book. Why is that, if you are so sure you have the truth of mans existence?
You want eternal life and not be tortured by God. I understand that. If that helps you be a good law abiding citizen that's a good thing. You may never become a great scientist or great at anything but you can still try.
Science would like to prove if a God exists yet they cannot, you cannot prove it either. I do understand your fear of losing your belief. I'm still waiting for some christian to raise a dead person from the grave so scientist can witness, test and verify if God exists.
No, God cannot grow limbs on amputees, science will one day and you will say God did it.
Well,you have said a mouthful,based on your feelings and emotions.
I have given my reasons for my faith,which you automatically discarded and without any basis in fact,you claim that my faith is based on fear of being tortured by God and wanting eternal life.
I never said that I could prove the exitence of God,What I said is that GOD proved his existence to me by answering specific prayers that only he and I knew about.
Now,there is natural evidence that God exists,the Universe,stars,our planet,inhabited by the most sophisticated machine( life form known to man....the human species,among others.
But,many reject this evidence and attribute this immense creation
to some accidental explosion that they can not explain based on facts and then theorize how life came into existence through an evolutionary proces. The problem with that is that,they cannot EXPLAIN how life came into being,because they don't know it occurred
They can not explain how nonliving nonintelligent matter was able to spontaneously come to lihe and create the human species,amomg others.
Does science try to prove the existence of God?Science will never prove the existence of God by using man constructed criteria.
The natural can not prove the supernatural.
Not to be repetitve,God has clearly stated how one may come to know him; If you seek me diligently,you will find me.
To unbelievers that is foolishness,but not to those who believe,have tested his word and found it to be true
What is wisdom to God ,is foolishness to the Godless
What is wisdom to the Godless,is foolishness to GOD
Therefore, Intheir search for widom and knowledge,the Godless have attained unto foolishness.
I don't know that man will someday,be able to grow limbs on amputees,could it happen,yes.This would come about as the result of an intelligent being figuring out the process on how this could be achieved...
It would not come about as a result of nonliving nonintelligent matter spontaneously creating that limb.Or would you believe that is possible? and if so,explain how.


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