Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,446

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
sin

London, KY

#98622 Apr 5, 2013
If Jesus had been an actual historical figure we have a thorny paradox. Either this Jesus was a remarkable individual who said and did a host of amazing, revolutionary things – but no one outside his fringe cult noticed for over a century. Or he didn’t – and yet shortly after his death, tiny communities of worshipers that cannot agree about the most basic facts of his life spring up, scattered all across the empire. The truth is inescapable: there simply could never have been a historical Jesus

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#98624 Apr 5, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
"I know of times that God demanded, endorsed and even committed killings, but would you be kind enough to show me where the Bible says that Satan ever told anyone to kill?"
Still waiting for your answer.
My answer is God didn't tell anyone to kill anyone, Satan didn't tell anyone to kill anyone... Human Being Killed Human Beings and wrote that they were told to do so to rationalize their own murderous endeavors.... All the Stories, Tales and writings are by Human Beings making crap up....

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98625 Apr 5, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
My answer is God didn't tell anyone to kill anyone, Satan didn't tell anyone to kill anyone... Human Being Killed Human Beings and wrote that they were told to do so to rationalize their own murderous endeavors.... All the Stories, Tales and writings are by Human Beings making crap up....
Well of course. You and I have never been in disagreement on who wrote what and why. I just expect religies to at least attempt to be self-consistent within their fantasy world since they have no intention of reconciling it with reality.
sin

London, KY

#98626 Apr 5, 2013
Jesus was not the man he was as a result of making Jesus Christ his personal savior
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98627 Apr 5, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to have just confusion because you try to throw 16 Billion years into a Poof it just happened mind set. 16 Billion or so years ago Some Energy converted into Matter. over billions of years ever more complex forms of matter self assembled. Gravity caused it to compress to a point it became so compressed it started a nuclear reaction and burned then Gravity made it collapse and then explode.. Each time New Elements and Compounds are formed including Organic Compounds that are found today throughout the Universe where ever we look... Every Meteor has organic molecules in it, Every Asteroid is made of water and many carbon based organic molecules. We have even found Amino Acids in objects in space.
Now Forget all the last several Billion years since earth formed and just consider the First Proto Life form. a Simple set of Amino Acids that through electrical pulses, UV light and Millions of years reproduced itself. If you duplicate those condition of early earth you get a organic compound with every compound that makes what we now call Alive.
So the Question becomes Simple. What is Life. Is a Base Virus Life? Is a Bacterium Life? is a Crystal that uses materials around it to grow and reproduce itself Alive. Once you have a simple 2 or 3 organic compound that reproduces then that answers the question about Human Kind and the assorted evolutionary steps... And all along the way from Billions of years ago until today we find Evidence of that evolutionary path from the proto bacterium that formed mats and produced All the Oxygen you breath today to life Blooms after each catastrophe that left just a few forms to quickly fill the environment....
Your response totally ignores my question,so let us try again.
Let me start with an irrefutable fact.Simply put
When the sperm from a man,fertilizes the egg of a woman a human will be formed.The information contained in the egg and the sperm will determine the color of the eyes,hair,whether male or female etc.
We do know that both are needed for conception to take place.
Question is,Who and how determined this process?
Now my question,which you failed to answer
According to Evolutionists
Unliving and unintelligent matter can ,over a period of billions of years,evolved into a living intelligent being,able to reproduce after it's own kind.
Let us analyze that procedure and apply it to the human species;
According to evolution,certain elements came together,devoid of intelligence or life and were somehow,able to assemble themselves ,over a period of billions of years,into a living being,previously non existent.
Without any guidance or blueprint to follow,this process called evolution,was able to create an amazingly sophisticated and complex machine,hereto fore unknown.
QUESTION,How did that happen?How did this process know what was needed in order to create a living human,that this human would need a heart,a brain,a liver etc. and create within itself HALF of the necessary elements needed in order to continue the survival of the human species.We call this,MAN.
NOW,apart and Independent of this MAN,we would have to have,these same identical elements,over a period of billions of years,create an almost identical being called Woman,which would have most of the same characteristics of man,a heart,a brain,liver etc,and create within itself the other HALF of the necessary elements needed to create additional human beings of both sexes
,But,how did this unintelligent process know to create separate beings of different sexes and provide them with the necessary parts so there would be a continuation of the species?
That is the question to which I am seeking an answer, which Science is unable to provide.
Can you,or can you not,provide me with the process that took place for these events to occur?

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#98628 Apr 5, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well of course. You and I have never been in disagreement on who wrote what and why. I just expect religies to at least attempt to be self-consistent within their fantasy world since they have no intention of reconciling it with reality.
"I just expect religies to at least attempt to be self-consistent within their fantasy world since they have no intention of reconciling it with reality."

Yes, I know it will not happen, but if we can just save one religie......

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#98629 Apr 5, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text> Isn't lying a sin in your world?
Lying is only a sin for non-believers, it is evident that it's not a sin for religies, they do it in 98%(lmao)of their posts.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#98630 Apr 5, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response totally ignores my question,so let us try again.
Let me start with an irrefutable fact.Simply put
When the sperm from a man,fertilizes the egg of a woman a human will be formed.The information contained in the egg and the sperm will determine the color of the eyes,hair,whether male or female etc.
We do know that both are needed for conception to take place.
Question is,Who and how determined this process?
Now my question,which you failed to answer
According to Evolutionists
Unliving and unintelligent matter can ,over a period of billions of years,evolved into a living intelligent being,able to reproduce after it's own kind.
Let us analyze that procedure and apply it to the human species;
According to evolution,certain elements came together,devoid of intelligence or life and were somehow,able to assemble themselves ,over a period of billions of years,into a living being,previously non existent.
Without any guidance or blueprint to follow,this process called evolution,was able to create an amazingly sophisticated and complex machine,hereto fore unknown.
QUESTION,How did that happen?How did this process know what was needed in order to create a living human,that this human would need a heart,a brain,a liver etc. and create within itself HALF of the necessary elements needed in order to continue the survival of the human species.We call this,MAN.
NOW,apart and Independent of this MAN,we would have to have,these same identical elements,over a period of billions of years,create an almost identical being called Woman,which would have most of the same characteristics of man,a heart,a brain,liver etc,and create within itself the other HALF of the necessary elements needed to create additional human beings of both sexes
,But,how did this unintelligent process know to create separate beings of different sexes and provide them with the necessary parts so there would be a continuation of the species?
That is the question to which I am seeking an answer, which Science is unable to provide.
Can you,or can you not,provide me with the process that took place for these events to occur?
I did, It's not my fault you don't have the mental capacity or educational knowledge to understand what I said... I answered your question directly... All I can do is explain it to you I cannot understand it for you..... What you really want is like a backwoods hill folks that can't read, write and has never went to school asking for someone to explain how a Nuclear Reactor works in a 100 words or less.... You want to skip all the details between ignorance and knowledge.... I could teach you but we would have to start with the basics of how individual particles form more complex molecules and slowly work our way through the class room studies before we move to the dissection table.... I would say go to your local high school and take 9 through 12 grade over and this time actually study the subject matter presented... Then take basic courses in chemistry, physics, botany, anthropology, biology then after a few years get back to me and I can teach you the more difficult concepts of the processes you are confused about....
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98631 Apr 5, 2013
sin wrote:
If Jesus had been an actual historical figure we have a thorny paradox. Either this Jesus was a remarkable individual who said and did a host of amazing, revolutionary things – but no one outside his fringe cult noticed for over a century. Or he didn’t – and yet shortly after his death, tiny communities of worshipers that cannot agree about the most basic facts of his life spring up, scattered all across the empire. The truth is inescapable: there simply could never have been a historical Jesus
Your opinion is based on Inaccurate information
Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources

Written by Michael Gleghorn


Evidence from Tacitus
Although there is overwhelming evidence that the New Testament is an accurate and trustworthy historical document, many people are still reluctant to believe what it says unless there is also some independent, non-biblical testimony that corroborates its statements. In the introduction to one of his books, F.F. Bruce tells about a Christian correspondent who was told by an agnostic friend that "apart from obscure references in Josephus and the like," there was no historical evidence for the life of Jesus outside the Bible.{1} This, he wrote to Bruce, had caused him "great concern and some little upset in [his] spiritual life."{2} He concludes his letter by asking, "Is such collateral proof available, and if not, are there reasons for the lack of it?"{3} The answer to this question is, "Yes, such collateral proof is available," and we will be looking at some of it in this article.

Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."{4} Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....{5}

What all can we learn from this ancient (and rather unsympathetic) reference to Jesus and the early Christians? Notice, first, that Tacitus reports Christians derived their name from a historical person called Christus (from the Latin), or Christ. He is said to have "suffered the extreme penalty," obviously alluding to the Roman method of execution known as crucifixion. This is said to have occurred during the reign of Tiberius and by the sentence of Pontius Pilatus. This confirms much of what the Gospels tell us about the death of Jesus.

But what are we to make of Tacitus' rather enigmatic statement that Christ's death briefly checked "a most mischievous superstition," which subsequently arose not only in Judaea, but also in Rome? One historian suggests that Tacitus is here "bearing indirect ... testimony to the conviction of the early church that the Christ who had been crucified had risen from the grave."{6} While this interpretation is admittedly speculative, it does help explain the otherwise bizarre occurrence of a rapidly growing religion based on the worship of a man who had been crucified as a criminal.{7} How else might one explain that?

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#98632 Apr 5, 2013
LOL in a suit wrote:
<quoted text>
"I just expect religies to at least attempt to be self-consistent within their fantasy world since they have no intention of reconciling it with reality."
Yes, I know it will not happen, but if we can just save one religie......
"I just expect religies to at least attempt to be self-consistent within their fantasy world since they have no intention of reconciling it with reality."

Yea, That'll happen....
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98633 Apr 5, 2013
Evidence from Pliny the Younger
Another important source of evidence about Jesus and early Christianity can be found in the letters of Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan. Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. In one of his letters, dated around A.D. 112, he asks Trajan's advice about the appropriate way to conduct legal proceedings against those accused of being Christians.{8} Pliny says that he needed to consult the emperor about this issue because a great multitude of every age, class, and sex stood accused of Christianity.{9}

At one point in his letter, Pliny relates some of the information he has learned about these Christians:

They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.{10}

This passage provides us with a number of interesting insights into the beliefs and practices of early Christians. First, we see that Christians regularly met on a certain fixed day for worship. Second, their worship was directed to Christ, demonstrating that they firmly believed in His divinity. Furthermore, one scholar interprets Pliny's statement that hymns were sung to Christ, as to a god, as a reference to the rather distinctive fact that, "unlike other gods who were worshipped, Christ was a person who had lived on earth."{11} If this interpretation is correct, Pliny understood that Christians were worshipping an actual historical person as God! Of course, this agrees perfectly with the New Testament doctrine that Jesus was both God and man.

Not only does Pliny's letter help us understand what early Christians believed about Jesus' person, it also reveals the high esteem to which they held His teachings. For instance, Pliny notes that Christians bound themselves by a solemn oath not to violate various moral standards, which find their source in the ethical teachings of Jesus. In addition, Pliny's reference to the Christian custom of sharing a common meal likely alludes to their observance of communion and the "love feast."{12} This interpretation helps explain the Christian claim that the meal was merely food of an ordinary and innocent kind. They were attempting to counter the charge, sometimes made by non-Christians, of practicing "ritual cannibalism."{13} The Christians of that day humbly repudiated such slanderous attacks on Jesus' teachings. We must sometimes do the same today.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98634 Apr 5, 2013
Evidence from Lucian
Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek satirist. In one of his works, he wrote of the early Christians as follows:

The Christians ... worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account....[It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.{27}

Although Lucian is jesting here at the early Christians, he does make some significant comments about their founder. For instance, he says the Christians worshipped a man, "who introduced their novel rites." And though this man's followers clearly thought quite highly of Him, He so angered many of His contemporaries with His teaching that He "was crucified on that account."

Although Lucian does not mention his name, he is clearly referring to Jesus. But what did Jesus teach to arouse such wrath? According to Lucian, he taught that all men are brothers from the moment of their conversion. That's harmless enough. But what did this conversion involve? It involved denying the Greek gods, worshipping Jesus, and living according to His teachings. It's not too difficult to imagine someone being killed for teaching that. Though Lucian doesn't say so explicitly, the Christian denial of other gods combined with their worship of Jesus implies the belief that Jesus was more than human. Since they denied other gods in order to worship Him, they apparently thought Jesus a greater God than any that Greece had to offer!

Let's summarize what we've learned about Jesus from this examination of ancient non-Christian sources. First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!

I hope you see how this small selection of ancient non-Christian sources helps corroborate our knowledge of Jesus from the gospels. Of course, there are many ancient Christian sources of information about Jesus as well. But since the historical reliability of the canonical gospels is so well established, I invite you to read those for an authoritative "life of Jesus!"
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98635 Apr 5, 2013
Evidence from the Babylonian Talmud
There are only a few clear references to Jesus in the Babylonian Talmud, a collection of Jewish rabbinical writings compiled between approximately A.D. 70-500. Given this time frame, it is naturally supposed that earlier references to Jesus are more likely to be historically reliable than later ones. In the case of the Talmud, the earliest period of compilation occurred between A.D. 70-200.{20} The most significant reference to Jesus from this period states:

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald ... cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy."{21}

Let's examine this passage. You may have noticed that it refers to someone named "Yeshu." So why do we think this is Jesus? Actually, "Yeshu" (or "Yeshua") is how Jesus' name is pronounced in Hebrew. But what does the passage mean by saying that Jesus "was hanged"? Doesn't the New Testament say he was crucified? Indeed it does. But the term "hanged" can function as a synonym for "crucified." For instance, Galatians 3:13 declares that Christ was "hanged", and Luke 23:39 applies this term to the criminals who were crucified with Jesus.{22} So the Talmud declares that Jesus was crucified on the eve of Passover. But what of the cry of the herald that Jesus was to be stoned? This may simply indicate what the Jewish leaders were planning to do.{23} If so, Roman involvement changed their plans!{24}

The passage also tells us why Jesus was crucified. It claims He practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy! Since this accusation comes from a rather hostile source, we should not be too surprised if Jesus is described somewhat differently than in the New Testament. But if we make allowances for this, what might such charges imply about Jesus?

Interestingly, both accusations have close parallels in the canonical gospels. For instance, the charge of sorcery is similar to the Pharisees' accusation that Jesus cast out demons "by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."{25} But notice this: such a charge actually tends to confirm the New Testament claim that Jesus performed miraculous feats. Apparently Jesus' miracles were too well attested to deny. The only alternative was to ascribe them to sorcery! Likewise, the charge of enticing Israel to apostasy parallels Luke's account of the Jewish leaders who accused Jesus of misleading the nation with his teaching.{26} Such a charge tends to corroborate the New Testament record of Jesus' powerful teaching ministry. Thus, if read carefully, this passage from the Talmud confirms much of our knowledge about Jesus from the New Testament.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98636 Apr 5, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response totally ignores my question,so let us try again.
Let me start with an irrefutable fact.Simply put
When the sperm from a man,fertilizes the egg of a woman a human will be formed.The information contained in the egg and the sperm will determine the color of the eyes,hair,whether male or female etc.
We do know that both are needed for conception to take place.
Question is,Who and how determined this process?
Now my question,which you failed to answer
According to Evolutionists
Unliving and unintelligent matter can ,over a period of billions of years,evolved into a living intelligent being,able to reproduce after it's own kind.
Let us analyze that procedure and apply it to the human species;
According to evolution,certain elements came together,devoid of intelligence or life and were somehow,able to assemble themselves ,over a period of billions of years,into a living being,previously non existent.
Without any guidance or blueprint to follow,this process called evolution,was able to create an amazingly sophisticated and complex machine,hereto fore unknown.
QUESTION,How did that happen?How did this process know what was needed in order to create a living human,that this human would need a heart,a brain,a liver etc. and create within itself HALF of the necessary elements needed in order to continue the survival of the human species.We call this,MAN.
NOW,apart and Independent of this MAN,we would have to have,these same identical elements,over a period of billions of years,create an almost identical being called Woman,which would have most of the same characteristics of man,a heart,a brain,liver etc,and create within itself the other HALF of the necessary elements needed to create additional human beings of both sexes
,But,how did this unintelligent process know to create separate beings of different sexes and provide them with the necessary parts so there would be a continuation of the species?
That is the question to which I am seeking an answer, which Science is unable to provide.
Can you,or can you not,provide me with the process that took place for these events to occur?
Science is not unable to provide an answer of how and where x and y chromosomal transfer takes place. There are simple fauna and flora that contain both. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. You want to think that because "God created man" that humans are unique and superior among the animal kingdom, and that is not the case. To answer your questions, you need to be willing to look at all domains of life, not merely the mammalian clade.
It is a common failure of creationists to overlook that a wheelbarrow and a Maserati are both nothing more than compound machines. They are so impressed with the sports car versions of life that they have no appreciation for the basket, the lever and the wheel and axle.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98637 Apr 5, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
...
According to Evolutionists
Unliving and unintelligent matter can ,over a period of billions of years,evolved into a living intelligent being,able to reproduce after it's own kind ....
You keep saying this, but evolution theory has nothing to do with the origin of life.

Some folks at Berkeley have a little presentation that explains it in an easy to digest format:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconc...
agree

Morehead, KY

#98638 Apr 5, 2013
Give it up folks,neither side will be convinced of any idea but their on. Move on.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#98639 Apr 5, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
I did, It's not my fault you don't have the mental capacity or educational knowledge to understand what I said... I answered your question directly... All I can do is explain it to you I cannot understand it for you..... What you really want is like a backwoods hill folks that can't read, write and has never went to school asking for someone to explain how a Nuclear Reactor works in a 100 words or less.... You want to skip all the details between ignorance and knowledge.... I could teach you but we would have to start with the basics of how individual particles form more complex molecules and slowly work our way through the class room studies before we move to the dissection table.... I would say go to your local high school and take 9 through 12 grade over and this time actually study the subject matter presented... Then take basic courses in chemistry, physics, botany, anthropology, biology then after a few years get back to me and I can teach you the more difficult concepts of the processes you are confused about....
If I took your advice and took courses in Science,biology etc. I,like you,would still be unable to answer the question I posed.
The reason being that,neither you or anyone else can provide an answer based on the evolutionary theory.
Obviously,the one who is confused is you,avoiding my question,is not an appropriate answer to my question.
Nevertheless,your answer does confirm my belief..
Which is,You really can not answer my question,,,But,I already knew that

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98640 Apr 5, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
If God didn't want robots, he wouldn't have gotten pissed off when A & E ate from the tree of knowledge.
I kept reading this and thinking "Is there a new show involving robots on A&E that I'm missing out on?"

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98641 Apr 5, 2013
sin wrote:
Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me.... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated
This coming from someone with no faith?

If anything, it is not the most overrated. It may qualify for most misunderstood, most misused in arguments, or most arrogance promoting.
Those with faith in God should not suppose those without it are bad people. Those without faith should not suppose someone with faith, ignorant.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98642 Apr 5, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
I kept reading this and thinking "Is there a new show involving robots on A&E that I'm missing out on?"
Adam and Eve, Arts and Entertainment... fiction is fiction. If you want a show on robots, the networks you're looking for are CTN, CBN, et al.

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