Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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#98301
Apr 3, 2013
 
Repucheta wrote:
<quoted text>I am flabbergasted, annoyed ,dumfounded,hemorroic and tomorrow is my wedding. I am not wise I used to crack jokes in prostibules. Any advice?
None at all. Sorry. Good luck

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#98302
Apr 3, 2013
 

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You are simply wrong wrote:
<quoted text>You have clearly never studied logic. I've already explained it. You just don't get it. It is a waste of my time to say more to you about it. Think of God as a time traveler. Maybe you will understand it that way?
Sure, OK. God is a time traveler. He gets in his God Delorian and zips ahead in time, seeing the entire stretch of human existence. Then he zips back in time to watch it unfold.

If we *truly* have free will then the events that God watches unfold will not occur exactly as they did when he zipped ahead in time. Therefore God does not know the future. If they happen exactly as they did when he zipped ahead then free will does not exist and we are determined to do what we do.

If anyone lacks an understanding of basic logic it is not me.

Now, back to my question. Do you or do you not understand the flaw in your logic?

Look at it another way. If Ben knows Jane then Ben cannot also NOT know Jane. These are mutually exclusive states of being. Ben either knows Jane or Ben does not know Jane.

God either knows what we will do or he does not know what we will do. If he knows what we will do then we are not free to choose. It must be this way, logically. It is not my opinion, it is the necessary rules of logic.

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#98303
Apr 3, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
As I've said before, I don't know that He is omniscient or omnipotent. We don't know.
My opinion is that He is more complicated than we can comprehend. So my simple explanations of my fallible opinion could be way off.
But I think that He has to follow certain rules of righteousness just as He expects us to do. If He were to step outside those laws of the Holy Priesthood, He would cease to be God.
We make covenants with God. He asks us to make this two way promise and as we keep our end of the covenant, He is bound to bless us with the promised blessing that He promised us.
So with this thought process and the former that you mentioned, maybe He is not omniscient or omnipotent, but we are still subject to Him and He is far more powerful and wise than we.
That leaves the possibility that there are other, more powerful beings in the universe. If so, why choose this one, limited being to worship?

I confess, you are the first Christian I have ever encountered who claims that God is fallible. Dangerous territory. It means the Bible is also fallible. Then you are left in the awkward position of using your human brain to figure out which parts are good and which are bad.

But ballsy move, dude.

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#98304
Apr 3, 2013
 
You are simply wrong wrote:
<quoted text>You have clearly never studied logic. I've already explained it. You just don't get it. It is a waste of my time to say more to you about it. Think of God as a time traveler. Maybe you will understand it that way?
The mechanics of his supposed omniscience is irrelevant to the argument. You'll have to develop better red herrings.

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#98305
Apr 3, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
...
But I think that He has to follow certain rules of righteousness just as He expects us to do. If He were to step outside those laws of the Holy Priesthood, He would cease to be God...
Then he answers to someone else? Your god has a god? How do you make this fit with your belief that your god is the "Alpha and the Omega"?
Curiouser and curiouser...
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#98306
Apr 3, 2013
 
conclusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as you and I will die,all people will die,but God gave them the chance to be saved not only from death,but from the flood itself. God gave the message through Noah that the world was going to be flooded but the people laughed and mocked him,and did not build an ark like Noah did for they did not believe. They chose to die rather than believe God and be rescued . Just as you chose death and hell rather than believe .I'll take that as a "yes " .
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#98307
Apr 3, 2013
 
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. But Christian theology (any theology, really) is not that concerned with logic. It is only the apologists who seem to be concerned with the fact that their beliefs are irrational.
I think it is a sign that a person wants to base their worldview on truth. Truth is important to some people. Like do whut. I think truth is important to him. I don't consider him to be an a**hat like a lot of these others. But I think he might recognize that his beliefs do not stand up very well to intense scrutiny because he isn't pulling out the silly rebuttals nor is he reducing himself to just insults and Jesus-isms.
This whole idea of mystery is where the problem lies. The heart of Christianity contains a mystery: how can Jesus be 100% man and 100% God at the same time? And where does this "Holy Ghost" fit into it? The Trinity is just a strange concept. Theologians have wrestled with it for centuries. It IS a logical contradiction. You cannot be three mutually exclusive things at the same time. Yet that is what God, in Christianity, must be or else it all falls apart.
So defending it in a rational argument is not going to be possible without appealing to this idea of "mystery". This notion of fuzzy logic, impossible to explain, known only to the mind of the God you have to believe in before you can even accept it at all.
I agree, I have to give him credit for at least trying. It's a sign that beneath the brainwashed layers, a rational mind exists and is trying to make it's way to the surface.
Most just throw out prayers, or threats of fire and brimstone, or deflections...

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#98308
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly. But Christian theology (any theology, really) is not that concerned with logic. It is only the apologists who seem to be concerned with the fact that their beliefs are irrational.

I think it is a sign that a person wants to base their worldview on truth. Truth is important to some people. Like do whut. I think truth is important to him. I don't consider him to be an a**hat like a lot of these others. But I think he might recognize that his beliefs do not stand up very well to intense scrutiny because he isn't pulling out the silly rebuttals nor is he reducing himself to just insults and Jesus-isms.

This whole idea of mystery is where the problem lies. The heart of Christianity contains a mystery: how can Jesus be 100% man and 100% God at the same time? And where does this "Holy Ghost" fit into it? The Trinity is just a strange concept. Theologians have wrestled with it for centuries. It IS a logical contradiction. You cannot be three mutually exclusive things at the same time. Yet that is what God, in Christianity, must be or else it all falls apart.

So defending it in a rational argument is not going to be possible without appealing to this idea of "mystery". This notion of fuzzy logic, impossible to explain, known only to the mind of the God you have to believe in before you can even accept it at all.
Thank you. I enjoy this topic and you guys respectfully debating makes it more enjoyable.

As for the trinity. I believe this was something invented by Constantine's council. I believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate entities. The first two having bodies of flesh and bone, and the latter is a spirit.

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#98309
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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>That leaves the possibility that there are other, more powerful beings in the universe. If so, why choose this one, limited being to worship?

I confess, you are the first Christian I have ever encountered who claims that God is fallible. Dangerous territory. It means the Bible is also fallible. Then you are left in the awkward position of using your human brain to figure out which parts are good and which are bad.

But ballsy move, dude.
Like I said, He's beyond my level of thinking. Maybe I'm wrong altogether and He is perfect and omniscient and omnipotent. I choose to worship Him as if He is.

We would choose Him to worship because He is the one that created us.

I don't think all the other stars that we see aren't capable of having inhabitants on orbiting planets too.

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

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#98310
Apr 3, 2013
 
You are simply wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that the point that Satanic Priest was trying to make is that there is no good from claiming to follow the whole Bible if you don’t follow the whole thing. If you are going to use it piecemeal for your religion, then simply admit it up front.
If you are claiming to follow the whole Bible, then do it. Don’t eat catfish, or shrimp, or pork. Follow Kosher food laws.
If you are going to quote the Bible about things you don’t like, like say homosexuality, then you have to also follow the food laws, since both are called,“abominations.”
Don’t call the Bible sacred, and then contort it to fit your whims.
Well said

“There is no god”

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#98311
Apr 3, 2013
 

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already.
Just because I translate it in a different way (FAR from "literal") does NOT mean I have not read it.
So actually, in my opinion (and actually in FACT) You could not be more WRONG (yup- plunking in that word just to poke right back at ya)
in your assumptions, because I've read it cover to cover.
I just see no need to obsess and froth and make more of the ugly parts than what they're actually intended to represent.
MY opinion.
You're certainly welcome to your negative fixations though, just don't expect everyone to share them likeminded, because they won't.
That's just reality.
Fair enough

“There is no god”

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#98312
Apr 3, 2013
 

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happy wrote:
<quoted text>
Old data...people have proven PRAYER works but u will never accept the proof..many articles and books on prayer. Even people who HAVE EXPERIENCED DEATH... What abt what they have seen and the warnings they come back with. They have seen the light or the evil side... what abt those ppl?
GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.. I pray for people like you all the time. I was once lost...so yes I am burdened for your kind. Do you know what that feels like?
You still cannot see the WIND, but its there. Gravity...
The HUMAN BODY alone is PROOF enough that there is a GOD.. But of course you have a better idea...
Hiccup lol
Than why isn't Romney President???

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#98313
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Then he answers to someone else? Your god has a god? How do you make this fit with your belief that your god is the "Alpha and the Omega"?
Curiouser and curiouser...
This is me thinking out loud. My church doesn't make a stand on this. Just want to make it clear.:-)

I think if He made us in His image, it suggests that He would have the same family structure as He granted us.

But He created us. He is our Father. To us, He is everything. A&O
research

Frankfort, KY

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#98314
Apr 3, 2013
 
Food for thought.
http://bibleq.net/answer/2267/

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#98315
Apr 3, 2013
 
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Than why isn't Romney President???
Niiiice
openyoureyes

Jamestown, KY

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#98316
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
The 1st Amendment. Specifically the establishment clause of the first amendment. It's pretty clear. I'm sorry that you're incapable of understanding it.
From your comments on topix you're either a young person or an evil person. For the first 200 years of America we had Christian Bibles and pray in public schools. I went to them public schools, and saw and heard the Bible and pray many times, and no one complained. One small public school I went to burned so we finished the school year (5 months) in our local Christian church. So in your opinion all the government officials, administrators, teachers, students and parents during the first 200 years of America should have been put in prison for illegal activities. I'm sorry you're an unbeliever, don't forget judgment day, and you would fit right in the evil governments of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, Cuba, Iraq, Syria.

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#98317
Apr 3, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
This is me thinking out loud. My church doesn't make a stand on this. Just want to make it clear.:-)
I think if He made us in His image, it suggests that He would have the same family structure as He granted us.
But He created us. He is our Father. To us, He is everything. A&O
Interesting. I've never heard this take before. It seems like this would create even more faith hurdles for you to navigate though(e.g., how do you know that you're worshiping the correct god and not his prankster brother/cousin?).
excuse me

Pikeville, KY

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#98318
Apr 3, 2013
 

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“I cannot have confidence in the Bible, for it is a book filled with contradictions.”

I could not estimate how many times I have heard this charge against the Holy Scriptures over the past several decades. One thing, however, has been consistent about the allegation – the critic rarely can name even one alleged contradiction that the Bible is supposed to contain. He just “knows” that they are “in there” somewhere.

Those who allege that the Bible contains contradictions basically fall into two classes. First, there is the person who honestly believes this to be the case because he has heard the hackneyed charge repeated frequently; thus, he sincerely is misinformed about the facts. Second, there is that type of person who, from base motives, hates the Bible and so does not scruple to pervert its testimony in order to discredit the Sacred Volume. In either case, the Word of God is not at fault!

Preliminary to a consideration of this important theme, it should be noted that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” applies to the Bible as much as to any other book. Books, like people, ought to be considered truthful and consistent unless it can be demonstrated that they are not. Great attempts have been made to absolve the Greek and Latin classics of contradictions, under the presumption that the authors did not contradict themselves. Surely the Bible deserves at least an equally charitable approach.

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#98319
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting. I've never heard this take before. It seems like this would create even more faith hurdles for you to navigate though(e.g., how do you know that you're worshiping the correct god and not his prankster brother/cousin?).
We would only worship the one we have contact with. Our creator.

I just don't think all those stars and galaxies are just scenery for us to look at.

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Apr 3, 2013
 

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excuse me wrote:
“I cannot have confidence in the Bible, for it is a book filled with contradictions.”
I could not estimate how many times I have heard this charge against the Holy Scriptures over the past several decades. One thing, however, has been consistent about the allegation – the critic rarely can name even one alleged contradiction that the Bible is supposed to contain. He just “knows” that they are “in there” somewhere.
Those who allege that the Bible contains contradictions basically fall into two classes. First, there is the person who honestly believes this to be the case because he has heard the hackneyed charge repeated frequently; thus, he sincerely is misinformed about the facts. Second, there is that type of person who, from base motives, hates the Bible and so does not scruple to pervert its testimony in order to discredit the Sacred Volume. In either case, the Word of God is not at fault!
Preliminary to a consideration of this important theme, it should be noted that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” applies to the Bible as much as to any other book. Books, like people, ought to be considered truthful and consistent unless it can be demonstrated that they are not. Great attempts have been made to absolve the Greek and Latin classics of contradictions, under the presumption that the authors did not contradict themselves. Surely the Bible deserves at least an equally charitable approach.
Here's about 50 of them:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_me...

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