Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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#98282
Apr 3, 2013
 

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what wrote:
<quoted text>it wont be to bad of a punishment if they only repent and ask to be forgiven. they will get to sit right next to the rest of the saved when god is rounded all of u all up i guess. with your god no matter what u do to ppl, u can still go unpunished thru eternity as long as u realize u were wrong and u are sorry no, matter what u caused to happen to someone else.
No repentance is a little more than that

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#98283
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>In your ice cream example it is still possible for a child to choose broccoli. Highly unlikely, but possible. Your ability to predict which they will choose rests upon your experience with the kids and with your ability to understand probabilities.

God is not human. According to every Christian tradition I've ever encountered God is perfect. He knows *everything*. So it is not a matter of God using probability to deduce what Adam and Eve would do. He simply already knew it.

From any logical perspective that rules out the possibility of free will. You cannot be simultaneously free to choose while the knowledge of your choice is already established somewhere else. It breaks every law of physics.

And once you go down the road of claiming that God can do these magical things you are in the realm of 100% faith and 0% reason. That's fine if you want to believe it, but it is not a rational position nor can it be defended in a reasonable debate.

You are putting your own personal theories into the mind of God. I'm not sure how you can justify that other than you're trying to rationalize an irrational position.
I'm just giving you my own thoughts. I said that pretty openly.
And I do believe we have free will. And I know which of my kids would choose broccoli and which would go for ice cream. That was my point.

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#98284
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>You do not understand how a democracy works do you? When 5% of the people want something and 95% of the people say Hell no than it is not going to happen.
Send your kids to private school but hope that they do not read the whole bible or they will become Atheist
Not necessarily. Look at gay marriage. They were a minority, but because of their fighting for support, people are changing positions to their benefit.

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#98285
Apr 3, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Rationalize and justify... It's still hokum.
I can agree to disagree on this. Again, I readily admit that it takes faith to believe the things I believe.
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98286
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that God both knows the future and gives us free will because of *differential calculus*?
Prove it.
But start by proving God.
No, I'm pointing out the obvious flaw in your statement. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it illogical.

Also, no, you try to prove that God doesn't exist.

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#98287
Apr 3, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
He is the Alpha and Omega as far as we are concerned.(And this is just me thinking) We are subject to Him. That's all that matters to us right now. The rest is irrelevant. I'm just asking what if?
Asking "what if?" is important...and the possible answers are far from irrelevant.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe He did know they would choose to eat of the fruit, but He still left it up to them to choose. I think it's a fine line between omniscience and predestination. I don't understand it fully but I can distinguish between the two.
How?
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Like if I give my kids the choice between broccoli and ice cream, I know which ones will choose which food because I have learned what they desire, because I have spent time with them and learned their behaviors. It doesn't mean I'm omniscient, nor that I have predestined what they will choose.
Oh, no...not the same. Not the same at all. Your kids, as Yiago pointed out, still could choose differently. You don't "know" what they will choose. Your god, however, supposedly does know. There can be no other outcome...otherwise he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient it's hard to argue that he's omnipotent.
On the other hand, if he is omniscient(and omnipotent), then all of your decisions are already known...which means they could only have one outcome, and that means your "free will" is an illusion.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#98288
Apr 3, 2013
 

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happy wrote:
<quoted text>
Old data...people have proven PRAYER works but u will never accept the proof..many articles and books on prayer. Even people who HAVE EXPERIENCED DEATH... What abt what they have seen and the warnings they come back with. They have seen the light or the evil side... what abt those ppl?
GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.. I pray for people like you all the time. I was once lost...so yes I am burdened for your kind. Do you know what that feels like?
You still cannot see the WIND, but its there. Gravity...
The HUMAN BODY alone is PROOF enough that there is a GOD.. But of course you have a better idea...
Hiccup lol
I cited some of the most recent and rigorous studies. If you have better ones, post them. But understand that doing scientific studies is a science. It is rigorously controlled. And under those controls intercessory prayer never shows any signs of effectiveness.

I'm sorry if that bothers you. But facts are facts. You can believe in Bigfoot but that won't make Bigfoot appear in your driveway.
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98289
Apr 3, 2013
 

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that guy wrote:
We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes
You have fallen into the trap of Pride. Namely, you have wrongly assumed that Humans are the purpose of creation.
Repucheta

Winchester, MA

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#98290
Apr 3, 2013
 
Really?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#98291
Apr 3, 2013
 

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You are simply wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm pointing out the obvious flaw in your statement. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it illogical.
Also, no, you try to prove that God doesn't exist.
Right. Something being illogical makes it illogical. Try this:

1. God knows the future.

2. We make free choices.

3. ERROR: Therefore God does/does not know the future???

If you accept 1 and 2, you are left with a problem at 3. It isn't a matter of me not understanding it. It is a matter of the idea being logically flawed.

I am being as rational and neutral about it as possible. But a fact is a fact.

Regarding proof of God, the onus of proof always rests with the person making the positive claim. That is why we do not have trials to prove our innocence. We have trials to prove our guilt.

Do you understand these basic ideas?
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98292
Apr 3, 2013
 
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already.
Just because I translate it in a different way (FAR from "literal") does NOT mean I have not read it.
So actually, in my opinion (and actually in FACT) You could not be more WRONG (yup- plunking in that word just to poke right back at ya)
in your assumptions, because I've read it cover to cover.
I just see no need to obsess and froth and make more of the ugly parts than what they're actually intended to represent.
MY opinion.
You're certainly welcome to your negative fixations though, just don't expect everyone to share them likeminded, because they won't. Ever.
That's just reality.
You have translated the Bible? You are literate in Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic , Ancient Greek and Classical Latin?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#98293
Apr 3, 2013
 

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You know what wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe it was as simple as a high altitude cloud cover. Or maybe it was an ice sphere that separated our sky from space.
It did take 40 days and 40 nights for it to come down. if it was an ice sphere it may have deteriorated from one spot and gradually fell in the form of rain.
Did you miss the part about the fact that such an environment would have been like living in an oven under enough weight to crush you to death? It is scientifically flawed from top to bottom. It is a dumb idea promoted to sell another dumb idea.
Repucheta

Winchester, MA

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#98294
Apr 3, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No repentance is a little more than that
I am flabbergasted, annoyed ,dumfounded,hemorroic and tomorrow is my wedding. I am not wise I used to crack jokes in prostibules. Any advice?
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98295
Apr 3, 2013
 

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bother- talk about FICKLE in a coulple of sentences!!!!!!!!!!
What do you have against using intellect, logic and rationality?
Shame on you!!!!!
lol
You are the one ignoring science and logic and therefore ignoring intellect. The fossil record you alluded to predates human history by about 65 million years. You can not use it to say anything about humans.
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98296
Apr 3, 2013
 
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
Differential calculus? From a logical standpoint, everything is wrong with it.
You sir, are an idiot.
No, you were simply looking in the mirror

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#98297
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
Asking "what if?" is important...and the possible answers are far from irrelevant.
<quoted text>
How?
<quoted text>
Oh, no...not the same. Not the same at all. Your kids, as Yiago pointed out, still could choose differently. You don't "know" what they will choose. Your god, however, supposedly does know. There can be no other outcome...otherwise he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient it's hard to argue that he's omnipotent.
On the other hand, if he is omniscient(and omnipotent), then all of your decisions are already known...which means they could only have one outcome, and that means your "free will" is an illusion.
Exactly. But Christian theology (any theology, really) is not that concerned with logic. It is only the apologists who seem to be concerned with the fact that their beliefs are irrational.

I think it is a sign that a person wants to base their worldview on truth. Truth is important to some people. Like do whut. I think truth is important to him. I don't consider him to be an a**hat like a lot of these others. But I think he might recognize that his beliefs do not stand up very well to intense scrutiny because he isn't pulling out the silly rebuttals nor is he reducing himself to just insults and Jesus-isms.

This whole idea of mystery is where the problem lies. The heart of Christianity contains a mystery: how can Jesus be 100% man and 100% God at the same time? And where does this "Holy Ghost" fit into it? The Trinity is just a strange concept. Theologians have wrestled with it for centuries. It IS a logical contradiction. You cannot be three mutually exclusive things at the same time. Yet that is what God, in Christianity, must be or else it all falls apart.

So defending it in a rational argument is not going to be possible without appealing to this idea of "mystery". This notion of fuzzy logic, impossible to explain, known only to the mind of the God you have to believe in before you can even accept it at all.
You are simply wrong

Clay City, KY

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#98298
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. Something being illogical makes it illogical. Try this:
1. God knows the future.
2. We make free choices.
3. ERROR: Therefore God does/does not know the future???
If you accept 1 and 2, you are left with a problem at 3. It isn't a matter of me not understanding it. It is a matter of the idea being logically flawed.
I am being as rational and neutral about it as possible. But a fact is a fact.
Regarding proof of God, the onus of proof always rests with the person making the positive claim. That is why we do not have trials to prove our innocence. We have trials to prove our guilt.
Do you understand these basic ideas?
You have clearly never studied logic. I've already explained it. You just don't get it. It is a waste of my time to say more to you about it. Think of God as a time traveler. Maybe you will understand it that way?

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#98299
Apr 3, 2013
 

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happy wrote:
<quoted text>
No reasoning with these type of closed minds. They know it all..
God certainly does not approve of "ANYONE being RAPED". That shows how ignorant you are. But ignorance can change, stupidity.. Well, you're stuck with it...
If God doesn't approve of it why doesn't he stop it from happening? Is he incapable of preventing a little girl from being raped? If so, why worship him?

There was a moment on an atheist show called The Atheist Experience where the host said the difference between her and God is that she would try to stop a child rapist whereas God would just watch and then punish the rapist later (unless he gets saved).

So why doesn't got stop little kids from being raped and murdered?

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#98300
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Asking "what if?" is important...and the possible answers are far from irrelevant.

do whut wrote, "<quoted text>
I believe He did know they would choose to eat of the fruit, but He still left it up to them to choose. I think it's a fine line between omniscience and predestination. I don't understand it fully but I can distinguish between the two.
"

How?
do whut wrote, "<quoted text>
Like if I give my kids the choice between broccoli and ice cream, I know which ones will choose which food because I have learned what they desire, because I have spent time with them and learned their behaviors. It doesn't mean I'm omniscient, nor that I have predestined what they will choose.
"

Oh, no...not the same. Not the same at all. Your kids, as Yiago pointed out, still could choose differently. You don't "know" what they will choose. Your god, however, supposedly does know. There can be no other outcome...otherwise he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient it's hard to argue that he's omnipotent.
On the other hand, if he is omniscient(and omnipotent), then all of your decisions are already known...which means they could only have one outcome, and that means your "free will" is an illusion.
As I've said before, I don't know that He is omniscient or omnipotent. We don't know.
My opinion is that He is more complicated than we can comprehend. So my simple explanations of my fallible opinion could be way off.
But I think that He has to follow certain rules of righteousness just as He expects us to do. If He were to step outside those laws of the Holy Priesthood, He would cease to be God.
We make covenants with God. He asks us to make this two way promise and as we keep our end of the covenant, He is bound to bless us with the promised blessing that He promised us.
So with this thought process and the former that you mentioned, maybe He is not omniscient or omnipotent, but we are still subject to Him and He is far more powerful and wise than we.

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#98301
Apr 3, 2013
 
Repucheta wrote:
<quoted text>I am flabbergasted, annoyed ,dumfounded,hemorroic and tomorrow is my wedding. I am not wise I used to crack jokes in prostibules. Any advice?
None at all. Sorry. Good luck

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