Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 138096 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98308 Apr 3, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly. But Christian theology (any theology, really) is not that concerned with logic. It is only the apologists who seem to be concerned with the fact that their beliefs are irrational.

I think it is a sign that a person wants to base their worldview on truth. Truth is important to some people. Like do whut. I think truth is important to him. I don't consider him to be an a**hat like a lot of these others. But I think he might recognize that his beliefs do not stand up very well to intense scrutiny because he isn't pulling out the silly rebuttals nor is he reducing himself to just insults and Jesus-isms.

This whole idea of mystery is where the problem lies. The heart of Christianity contains a mystery: how can Jesus be 100% man and 100% God at the same time? And where does this "Holy Ghost" fit into it? The Trinity is just a strange concept. Theologians have wrestled with it for centuries. It IS a logical contradiction. You cannot be three mutually exclusive things at the same time. Yet that is what God, in Christianity, must be or else it all falls apart.

So defending it in a rational argument is not going to be possible without appealing to this idea of "mystery". This notion of fuzzy logic, impossible to explain, known only to the mind of the God you have to believe in before you can even accept it at all.
Thank you. I enjoy this topic and you guys respectfully debating makes it more enjoyable.

As for the trinity. I believe this was something invented by Constantine's council. I believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate entities. The first two having bodies of flesh and bone, and the latter is a spirit.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98309 Apr 3, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>That leaves the possibility that there are other, more powerful beings in the universe. If so, why choose this one, limited being to worship?

I confess, you are the first Christian I have ever encountered who claims that God is fallible. Dangerous territory. It means the Bible is also fallible. Then you are left in the awkward position of using your human brain to figure out which parts are good and which are bad.

But ballsy move, dude.
Like I said, He's beyond my level of thinking. Maybe I'm wrong altogether and He is perfect and omniscient and omnipotent. I choose to worship Him as if He is.

We would choose Him to worship because He is the one that created us.

I don't think all the other stars that we see aren't capable of having inhabitants on orbiting planets too.

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#98310 Apr 3, 2013
You are simply wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that the point that Satanic Priest was trying to make is that there is no good from claiming to follow the whole Bible if you don’t follow the whole thing. If you are going to use it piecemeal for your religion, then simply admit it up front.
If you are claiming to follow the whole Bible, then do it. Don’t eat catfish, or shrimp, or pork. Follow Kosher food laws.
If you are going to quote the Bible about things you don’t like, like say homosexuality, then you have to also follow the food laws, since both are called,“abominations.”
Don’t call the Bible sacred, and then contort it to fit your whims.
Well said

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#98311 Apr 3, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already.
Just because I translate it in a different way (FAR from "literal") does NOT mean I have not read it.
So actually, in my opinion (and actually in FACT) You could not be more WRONG (yup- plunking in that word just to poke right back at ya)
in your assumptions, because I've read it cover to cover.
I just see no need to obsess and froth and make more of the ugly parts than what they're actually intended to represent.
MY opinion.
You're certainly welcome to your negative fixations though, just don't expect everyone to share them likeminded, because they won't.
That's just reality.
Fair enough

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#98312 Apr 3, 2013
happy wrote:
<quoted text>
Old data...people have proven PRAYER works but u will never accept the proof..many articles and books on prayer. Even people who HAVE EXPERIENCED DEATH... What abt what they have seen and the warnings they come back with. They have seen the light or the evil side... what abt those ppl?
GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.. I pray for people like you all the time. I was once lost...so yes I am burdened for your kind. Do you know what that feels like?
You still cannot see the WIND, but its there. Gravity...
The HUMAN BODY alone is PROOF enough that there is a GOD.. But of course you have a better idea...
Hiccup lol
Than why isn't Romney President???

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98313 Apr 3, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Then he answers to someone else? Your god has a god? How do you make this fit with your belief that your god is the "Alpha and the Omega"?
Curiouser and curiouser...
This is me thinking out loud. My church doesn't make a stand on this. Just want to make it clear.:-)

I think if He made us in His image, it suggests that He would have the same family structure as He granted us.

But He created us. He is our Father. To us, He is everything. A&O
research

Frankfort, KY

#98314 Apr 3, 2013
Food for thought.
http://bibleq.net/answer/2267/

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98315 Apr 3, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Than why isn't Romney President???
Niiiice
openyoureyes

Jamestown, KY

#98316 Apr 3, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
The 1st Amendment. Specifically the establishment clause of the first amendment. It's pretty clear. I'm sorry that you're incapable of understanding it.
From your comments on topix you're either a young person or an evil person. For the first 200 years of America we had Christian Bibles and pray in public schools. I went to them public schools, and saw and heard the Bible and pray many times, and no one complained. One small public school I went to burned so we finished the school year (5 months) in our local Christian church. So in your opinion all the government officials, administrators, teachers, students and parents during the first 200 years of America should have been put in prison for illegal activities. I'm sorry you're an unbeliever, don't forget judgment day, and you would fit right in the evil governments of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, Cuba, Iraq, Syria.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98317 Apr 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
This is me thinking out loud. My church doesn't make a stand on this. Just want to make it clear.:-)
I think if He made us in His image, it suggests that He would have the same family structure as He granted us.
But He created us. He is our Father. To us, He is everything. A&O
Interesting. I've never heard this take before. It seems like this would create even more faith hurdles for you to navigate though(e.g., how do you know that you're worshiping the correct god and not his prankster brother/cousin?).
excuse me

Elkhorn City, KY

#98318 Apr 3, 2013
“I cannot have confidence in the Bible, for it is a book filled with contradictions.”

I could not estimate how many times I have heard this charge against the Holy Scriptures over the past several decades. One thing, however, has been consistent about the allegation – the critic rarely can name even one alleged contradiction that the Bible is supposed to contain. He just “knows” that they are “in there” somewhere.

Those who allege that the Bible contains contradictions basically fall into two classes. First, there is the person who honestly believes this to be the case because he has heard the hackneyed charge repeated frequently; thus, he sincerely is misinformed about the facts. Second, there is that type of person who, from base motives, hates the Bible and so does not scruple to pervert its testimony in order to discredit the Sacred Volume. In either case, the Word of God is not at fault!

Preliminary to a consideration of this important theme, it should be noted that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” applies to the Bible as much as to any other book. Books, like people, ought to be considered truthful and consistent unless it can be demonstrated that they are not. Great attempts have been made to absolve the Greek and Latin classics of contradictions, under the presumption that the authors did not contradict themselves. Surely the Bible deserves at least an equally charitable approach.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98319 Apr 3, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting. I've never heard this take before. It seems like this would create even more faith hurdles for you to navigate though(e.g., how do you know that you're worshiping the correct god and not his prankster brother/cousin?).
We would only worship the one we have contact with. Our creator.

I just don't think all those stars and galaxies are just scenery for us to look at.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98320 Apr 3, 2013
excuse me wrote:
“I cannot have confidence in the Bible, for it is a book filled with contradictions.”
I could not estimate how many times I have heard this charge against the Holy Scriptures over the past several decades. One thing, however, has been consistent about the allegation – the critic rarely can name even one alleged contradiction that the Bible is supposed to contain. He just “knows” that they are “in there” somewhere.
Those who allege that the Bible contains contradictions basically fall into two classes. First, there is the person who honestly believes this to be the case because he has heard the hackneyed charge repeated frequently; thus, he sincerely is misinformed about the facts. Second, there is that type of person who, from base motives, hates the Bible and so does not scruple to pervert its testimony in order to discredit the Sacred Volume. In either case, the Word of God is not at fault!
Preliminary to a consideration of this important theme, it should be noted that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” applies to the Bible as much as to any other book. Books, like people, ought to be considered truthful and consistent unless it can be demonstrated that they are not. Great attempts have been made to absolve the Greek and Latin classics of contradictions, under the presumption that the authors did not contradict themselves. Surely the Bible deserves at least an equally charitable approach.
Here's about 50 of them:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_me...

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98321 Apr 3, 2013
excuse me wrote:
“I cannot have confidence in the Bible, for it is a book filled with contradictions.”

I could not estimate how many times I have heard this charge against the Holy Scriptures over the past several decades. One thing, however, has been consistent about the allegation – the critic rarely can name even one alleged contradiction that the Bible is supposed to contain. He just “knows” that they are “in there” somewhere.

Those who allege that the Bible contains contradictions basically fall into two classes. First, there is the person who honestly believes this to be the case because he has heard the hackneyed charge repeated frequently; thus, he sincerely is misinformed about the facts. Second, there is that type of person who, from base motives, hates the Bible and so does not scruple to pervert its testimony in order to discredit the Sacred Volume. In either case, the Word of God is not at fault!

Preliminary to a consideration of this important theme, it should be noted that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” applies to the Bible as much as to any other book. Books, like people, ought to be considered truthful and consistent unless it can be demonstrated that they are not. Great attempts have been made to absolve the Greek and Latin classics of contradictions, under the presumption that the authors did not contradict themselves. Surely the Bible deserves at least an equally charitable approach.
Which contradictions do you speak of?
I am blessed

Morehead, KY

#98322 Apr 3, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
Asking "what if?" is important...and the possible answers are far from irrelevant.
<quoted text>
How?
<quoted text>
Oh, no...not the same. Not the same at all. Your kids, as Yiago pointed out, still could choose differently. You don't "know" what they will choose. Your god, however, supposedly does know. There can be no other outcome...otherwise he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient it's hard to argue that he's omnipotent.
On the other hand, if he is omniscient(and omnipotent), then all of your decisions are already known...which means they could only have one outcome, and that means your "free will" is an illusion.
The "illusion" is that you think that you have all the answers . God knows what we will chose to do,but HE never wanted us to do it we have a choice. Example -You could chose to believe in the bible,but with your mind set against it,you most likely wont.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98323 Apr 3, 2013
Repucheta wrote:
<quoted text>
I am flabbergasted, annoyed ,dumfounded,hemorroic and tomorrow is my wedding. I am not wise I used to crack jokes in prostibules. Any advice?
I've always said that there are 2 events for which most people will enter a church. One is for weddings and the other is for funerals - and both represent the end of life as we know it.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98324 Apr 3, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We would only worship the one we have contact with. Our creator.
But, how do you know he's your creator? I mean, they're "gods" right? Some more powerful than others...how do you know you're not the victim of a cosmic April Fool's Day hoax?
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I just don't think all those stars and galaxies are just scenery for us to look at.
For once we agree on something, I don't think they are there for us to to look at either. But, I don't believe in making up stories to explain their existence. To me that diminishes their beauty.
excuse me

Elkhorn City, KY

#98325 Apr 3, 2013
It is fairly safe to say that most people have only a superficial concept of what constitutes a genuine contradiction. An important truth that must be hammered home repeatedly is this: a mere difference does not a contradiction make!

What, then, constitutes a contradiction? In logic, the Law of Contradiction is stated succinctly as follows:“Nothing can both be and not be”(Jevons, 1928, p. 117). That is a very abbreviated form of the rule. Aristotle, in a more amplified format, expressed it this way.“That the same thing should at the same time both be and not be for the same person and in the same respect is impossible.”

An analysis of the Law of Contradiction, therefore, would suggest the following. When one is confronted with an alleged contradiction, he must ask himself these questions:(1) Is the same thing or person under consideration?(2) Is the same time period in view?(3) Is the language that seems to be self-contradictory employed in the same sense? It is quite important that these questions be answered correctly.

For instance, let us analyze the following two statements: Robert is rich. Robert is poor. Do these statements contradict one another? The answer is – not necessarily! First, two different people named Robert could be under consideration. Second, two different time frames might be in view; Robert could have been rich but, due to financial disaster, he became poor. Third, the terms “rich” and “poor” might have been used in different senses; Robert could be spiritually rich but economically poor. The point is this: it never is proper to assume a contradiction exists until every possible means of harmonization has been fully exhausted. Now, let this principle be applied to the Bible.

Lets discuss the first one on your list..God both loves and hates? No, for though these terms are opposites, when used of God they do not express His disposition toward the same objects. God loves every sinner in the world (John 3:16), but He hates every false way (Psalm 119:104). He loves righteousness, but hates iniquity (Psalm 45:7), and hence responds toward such with either goodness or severity (Romans 11:22). No contradiction exists here.

Shall I go throug all on your list ?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#98326 Apr 3, 2013
I am blessed wrote:
<quoted text>
The "illusion" is that you think that you have all the answers .
Now, where/when did I say I had all the answers? You're projecting your own arrogance. I'm comfortable admitting I don't know how the universe began. You are not, so you make up stories (or believe other people's stories)to fill the void.
I am blessed wrote:
<quoted text>
God knows what we will chose to do,but HE never wanted us to do it we have a choice.
If your god knew what we would choose to do and didn't want that to happen...why create us? Is he stupid? So you worship an omnipotent yet dumb god?
I am blessed wrote:
<quoted text>
Example -You could chose to believe in the bible,but with your mind set against it,you most likely wont.
That's not a good example at all. What does it prove?

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#98327 Apr 3, 2013
openyoureyes wrote:
<quoted text>
From your comments on topix you're either a young person or an evil person. For the first 200 years of America we had Christian Bibles and pray in public schools. I went to them public schools, and saw and heard the Bible and pray many times, and no one complained. One small public school I went to burned so we finished the school year (5 months) in our local Christian church. So in your opinion all the government officials, administrators, teachers, students and parents during the first 200 years of America should have been put in prison for illegal activities. I'm sorry you're an unbeliever, don't forget judgment day, and you would fit right in the evil governments of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, Cuba, Iraq, Syria.
You lie like a christian. First off there where no public schools 200 years ago. And while some little schools that did not have money for books in the early 1900's that used the bible to teach reading because that is all they had did not teach the bible as fact. Most educated people (like teachers) are Atheist.
And as for you finishing a school year in a church, bull you lie like a christian

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