Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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#97516
Mar 27, 2013
 

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LOL in a suit wrote:
<quoted text>Lmao, respect, I have zero for religies or religion. I also must say, roflmao. And as for me caring about an idiot religie having respect for me, why would I lower myself to such a fungus level, yuck. Thank god I'm Atheist.
Yeah. I understand. After all people with faith in a creator aren't even human. They don't deserve respect, or even life. How dare anyone think differently than you. Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone believed and acted like you? Yeah, I can see that utopia right now. Religies are so intolerant of others beliefs. Not like you ... Or something like that.

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#97517
Mar 27, 2013
 

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LOL in a suit wrote:
<quoted text>That religie special understanding at work.
No there's nothing special about it. You're talking about the wrong religion. About as wrong as me accusing you of believing in reincarnation.

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#97518
Mar 27, 2013
 

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LOL in a suit wrote:
Please consider for a moment the ignorance of the average religie fundamentalist follower of the holyhatebible.

Then let the realization sink in that by definition, fully half of those religie types must be even dumber than that.

do whut?

Yep.

Oleo lord protect us from your followers for they be filled with your hate and want respect and 12 year old kids as mates and are mostly delusional and hates them some truth and O hell you get the point.
Haha. Yeah. You're one to accuse someone else of hate. Hahahahaha. Hypocrisy at its finest.

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#97519
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, magical thinking. If you believe in an invisible sky entity that grants everlasting life then you are engaging in magical thinking. Theism = magic. The opposite of natural is supernatural. Magic.

You already said that evidence is not an important factor. Without evidence, there is only faith. Faith, by nature, is based on nothing. That's why it has never been a fruitful way of thinking. You can have faith all day long but when you want to plow a field you need a real thing.
I never said evidence wasn't important. I said there will never be proof, and that the plan was for us to have to rely on faith. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy searching for evidences of the things I believe. It's cool for me to run across something that affirms my faith.

Just because I believe in a creator, a higher power that had a hand in the intricate details of how particles work together, to the amazing human body, to the wonders if the universe, doesn't mean it's magic. It's just admitting that we aren't the smartest creatures in existence.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#97520
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, magical thinking. If you believe in an invisible sky entity that grants everlasting life then you are engaging in magical thinking. Theism = magic. The opposite of natural is supernatural. Magic.
You already said that evidence is not an important factor. Without evidence, there is only faith. Faith, by nature, is based on nothing. That's why it has never been a fruitful way of thinking. You can have faith all day long but when you want to plow a field you need a real thing.
This site shows a belief in the book of Mormon. I'm not sure what sect it is , I think they have faith also.

http://www.utopia-net.org/English/index1.html

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#97521
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>So, regarding the witnesses to the golden plates, did any of them literally see the plates? Up close? Touch them? Where are the plates now?

Ok, so the internet is literally LOADED with LDS apologists desperately trying to argue the validity of these witnesses. You can't Google this stuff without getting dozens and dozens of Mormon websites. Very few people outside the LDS even cares about the topic. Most don't even know about it. The only reason I know about it is because a lot of my favorite podcasts are from former LDS members and this is something they know a lot about.

For my money this is really the crux of it:

1) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That's sort of the essence of Occam's Razor, and I think it is a very good standard. So if I said "I ate Fruit Loops for breakfast" you could assume I'm telling the truth. It's not a very weird claim to make. But if I said "Aliens fed me Fruit Loops for breakfast" suddenly you're going to need a LOT of evidence to believe me.

2) The claims of Joseph Smith and many of the early LDS church members are extraordinary. Hell, having an angel visit you and lead you to some treasure is by itself a claim that is going to require a metric f*ckton of evidence for me to buy it. Let alone all the other sorcery and magic junk that goes along with it. So for me to buy that Smith had these golden plates he got from an Angel is going to take a lot more than the testimony of a few witnesses.

3) Eyewitness testimony is among the worst evidence you can have. Human memory and perception is notoriously fallible. People do not remember things very accurately. Consider this article on how we twist and mangle memory due to social pressures:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/10/how...

There are many other reasons to reject the witnesses as reliable sources. When you look at the history of the LDS it is like the history of Bigfoot. Believers claim to have seen him or at least strongly believe in him, but he's always just out of reach. Never quite in focus.

Same with Smith's miracle church. There just isn't anything to go by except what they wrote down. And for pete's sake we can write anything we want.

You can believe it all you want. I don't care. But if we're going to debate it, then show me the evidence strong enough to support your extraordinary claims. Otherwise it's just something you believe and something I do not.
Handled and hefted means they touched them. Do you understand that?

What type of evidence do you expect from 1820, if other eyewitnesses aren't credible, would you prefer video footage?

We can talk about all sorts of things that make people scratch their heads when contemplating the validity of Joseph's story. I have nothing in front of me now, but I will get to my computer at some point soon. One that comes to mind is: suppose Joseph made up the BOM. How could a man with a 6th grade equivalent education write something like that in about 3 months' time?
One interesting thing is how they talk about horses in the BOM. For 150 years people said the BOM couldn't be true because there was no evidence of horse remains pre-Columbus. Until recently, they found some remains of horses that pre-date Columbus. How would he know that?

More to follow

“There is no god.”

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#97522
Mar 27, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Haha. Yeah. You're one to accuse someone else of hate. Hahahahaha. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Unlike you religies, I do not lie and say "I don't hate", I do hate and gladly show it, no hypocrisy in that, once more your dumb ass is showing. Speaking of hypocrisy shagged any virgins lately, chester?

“There is no god.”

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#97523
Mar 27, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. I understand. After all people with faith in a creator aren't even human. They don't deserve respect, or even life. How dare anyone think differently than you. Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone believed and acted like you? Yeah, I can see that utopia right now. Religies are so intolerant of others beliefs. Not like you ... Or something like that.
You're hung up on respect ain't cha. Sorry, I got none for ya, deal with it.

“official chess Grand master”

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Cape Town, South Africa

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#97524
Mar 27, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, for the things that are against the laws they are in the prisons and jails. As for discrimination, denying gays the right to marry who they love is the most publicized one, others include making laws against atheists holding office, slavery, denying that black people are human is the longest standing one.
Yes, Christian don't want gays, but they would never discriminate against them.

“official chess Grand master”

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#97525
Mar 27, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. I understand. After all people with faith in a creator aren't even human. They don't deserve respect, or even life. How dare anyone think differently than you. Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone believed and acted like you? Yeah, I can see that utopia right now. Religies are so intolerant of others beliefs. Not like you ... Or something like that.
OH MY GOSH!!!!! If any person disrespects another's belief, it's an atheist. Atheists are so arrogant. They are the ones causing the world's violence.
Known Fact

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Mar 27, 2013
 

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THE ENCERDABLE CELL

There are 100 trillion cells in the human body and each cell has the DNA for the make up. That is SCIENTIFIC! Explain how that could come about through evolution.
OH AND BY THE WAY THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS EXPOSING AND DISPROVING YOUR EVOLUTION THEORY!

“I Am No One Else”

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#97527
Mar 27, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did that number come from? With that mentality, over half of everyone we know, including family would have been incarcerated. Uhhhh I don't think so. Source please.
Technically no. The chances would be that over half the people you know would at one time be incarcerated, but the distribution is actually less diverse, there are areas with high concentrations of criminal activity, they will have a 90% of knowing someone who was incarcerated while you would have about a 30% chance of it, simply because of that distribution.

Statistics are a messy business, and the devil is in the details, thus why just rattling off such numbers is always ... well ... fallacious, you need to see entire reports to understand them. However, the lump total is about 60% of all the people in the US have been incarcerated, that also includes illegal immigrants and other various activities. Not everyone incarcerated stays long either, an hour and you get counted, drunk tank to sober up ... then you're counted, taken in under suspicion of anything, and you're counted.

But at the same time, you demonstrated that you are lacking perspective. The world, even our country, is massive, huge. We could hear about mass killings in the news every day for a year and still not be directly effected by one, and the chances of a loved one being a victim would still be miniscule.

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Mar 27, 2013
 

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Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Christian don't want gays, but they would never discriminate against them.
You just discriminated against them.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

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Known Fact wrote:
THE ENCERDABLE CELL
There are 100 trillion cells in the human body and each cell has the DNA for the make up. That is SCIENTIFIC! Explain how that could come about through evolution.
OH AND BY THE WAY THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS EXPOSING AND DISPROVING YOUR EVOLUTION THEORY!
"All I can do is explain it to you, I cannot understand it for you"

Oh and by the way, no it isn't...

“The Wicked and the Evil”

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The globalists are pushing through their agenda.

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Known Fact wrote:
THE ENCERDABLE CELL
There are 100 trillion cells in the human body and each cell has the DNA for the make up. That is SCIENTIFIC! Explain how that could come about through evolution.
OH AND BY THE WAY THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS EXPOSING AND DISPROVING YOUR EVOLUTION THEORY!
If you would actually learn the theory of evolution, you'd understand how it happened.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Handled and hefted means they touched them. Do you understand that?
What type of evidence do you expect from 1820, if other eyewitnesses aren't credible, would you prefer video footage?
We can talk about all sorts of things that make people scratch their heads when contemplating the validity of Joseph's story. I have nothing in front of me now, but I will get to my computer at some point soon. One that comes to mind is: suppose Joseph made up the BOM. How could a man with a 6th grade equivalent education write something like that in about 3 months' time?
One interesting thing is how they talk about horses in the BOM. For 150 years people said the BOM couldn't be true because there was no evidence of horse remains pre-Columbus. Until recently, they found some remains of horses that pre-date Columbus. How would he know that?
More to follow
1) I don't expect video footage. But at the same time I am not going to reduce my requirement for evidence to the point of accepting wild claims based on eye witness testimonials. In this case, we have a crazy story that cannot have happened the way it was told based on the evidence we have available. Something did in fact happen, but it was not a man being led by Angels to find a hidden gospel of Jesus Christ or pre-Jesus peoples. It was a known fraud creating a new cult. Happens all the time. The fact that 19th century people believed him is not shocking.

2) Joseph Smith was a brilliant man. He was an exceptional con artist. And 6th grade was pretty advanced for the time. Neither of my own parents went past 5th grade. Smith was far more capable intellectually than the LDS wants to admit. It makes for a better narrative if they paint him as a yokel who was led by God. And really, if you have an inspiration and a good mind, it does not take very long to crank out a book. The BoM does not strike me as a particularly difficult book either.

3) There were wild horses in the Americas ten thousand years ago. I think, based on what I remember of this topic, they might have been hunted and killed off around the same time that we killed off the mega-fauna. That does not line up at all with BoM timelines. The idea you are referring to is championed by Mormon apologists but not accepted by mainstream science. If you can show me how this evidence is part of the scientific canon I will change my opinion on this part of the topic. Otherwise, it is a case of Smith assuming horses had just always been part of the human culture.

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#97533
Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said evidence wasn't important. I said there will never be proof, and that the plan was for us to have to rely on faith. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy searching for evidences of the things I believe. It's cool for me to run across something that affirms my faith.
Just because I believe in a creator, a higher power that had a hand in the intricate details of how particles work together, to the amazing human body, to the wonders if the universe, doesn't mean it's magic. It's just admitting that we aren't the smartest creatures in existence.
1) If you already believe something to be true, then you search for evidence to back it up you are embracing a strong bias. Science, or critical thinking, is designed to eliminate as much bias as possible. However, scientists do seek evidence to support their hypothesis, which is similar to what you describe here. But there is a powerful difference. When a hypothesis is presented to a crowd of peers and those peers do not find the evidence compelling it is rejected. A good scientist then modifies the idea or abandons it. They do not cling to it out of faith. Faith is what you have when you lack a reason. It hangs on nothing but a feeling.

2) If you accept science (particles and junk) then why tack on the added complication of a Designer? Back in Joseph Smith's day he would not have had any idea about particles. No mention of them in the BoM. No mention of quantum physics. Then along comes science and discovers these properties of the universe. Suddenly God takes on the role of being behind those properties. In fact, each time we discover some deeper fact about how the universe works you have to move God one step backward in the process. In Smith's day it would have been acceptable for an educated man to say that God keeps the planets moving and has a hand in every day life. Today we know so much more about that stuff that it makes no sense to say that. God has been pushed back to an even more remote position, always occupying that space of knowledge where humans have not yet penetrated.

The term for that is God of the Gaps. You put God into the unknown spaces. Those areas of the map that say "here be monsters".

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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Merlin the Wizard wrote:
The globalists are pushing through their agenda.
No doubt! Consider this video as evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#97536
Mar 28, 2013
 

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
How to waste time redundantly, daily.
HA.
So you're admitting that your posts are bullshit? That's a first.

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