Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#97532
Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Handled and hefted means they touched them. Do you understand that?
What type of evidence do you expect from 1820, if other eyewitnesses aren't credible, would you prefer video footage?
We can talk about all sorts of things that make people scratch their heads when contemplating the validity of Joseph's story. I have nothing in front of me now, but I will get to my computer at some point soon. One that comes to mind is: suppose Joseph made up the BOM. How could a man with a 6th grade equivalent education write something like that in about 3 months' time?
One interesting thing is how they talk about horses in the BOM. For 150 years people said the BOM couldn't be true because there was no evidence of horse remains pre-Columbus. Until recently, they found some remains of horses that pre-date Columbus. How would he know that?
More to follow
1) I don't expect video footage. But at the same time I am not going to reduce my requirement for evidence to the point of accepting wild claims based on eye witness testimonials. In this case, we have a crazy story that cannot have happened the way it was told based on the evidence we have available. Something did in fact happen, but it was not a man being led by Angels to find a hidden gospel of Jesus Christ or pre-Jesus peoples. It was a known fraud creating a new cult. Happens all the time. The fact that 19th century people believed him is not shocking.

2) Joseph Smith was a brilliant man. He was an exceptional con artist. And 6th grade was pretty advanced for the time. Neither of my own parents went past 5th grade. Smith was far more capable intellectually than the LDS wants to admit. It makes for a better narrative if they paint him as a yokel who was led by God. And really, if you have an inspiration and a good mind, it does not take very long to crank out a book. The BoM does not strike me as a particularly difficult book either.

3) There were wild horses in the Americas ten thousand years ago. I think, based on what I remember of this topic, they might have been hunted and killed off around the same time that we killed off the mega-fauna. That does not line up at all with BoM timelines. The idea you are referring to is championed by Mormon apologists but not accepted by mainstream science. If you can show me how this evidence is part of the scientific canon I will change my opinion on this part of the topic. Otherwise, it is a case of Smith assuming horses had just always been part of the human culture.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#97533
Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said evidence wasn't important. I said there will never be proof, and that the plan was for us to have to rely on faith. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy searching for evidences of the things I believe. It's cool for me to run across something that affirms my faith.
Just because I believe in a creator, a higher power that had a hand in the intricate details of how particles work together, to the amazing human body, to the wonders if the universe, doesn't mean it's magic. It's just admitting that we aren't the smartest creatures in existence.
1) If you already believe something to be true, then you search for evidence to back it up you are embracing a strong bias. Science, or critical thinking, is designed to eliminate as much bias as possible. However, scientists do seek evidence to support their hypothesis, which is similar to what you describe here. But there is a powerful difference. When a hypothesis is presented to a crowd of peers and those peers do not find the evidence compelling it is rejected. A good scientist then modifies the idea or abandons it. They do not cling to it out of faith. Faith is what you have when you lack a reason. It hangs on nothing but a feeling.

2) If you accept science (particles and junk) then why tack on the added complication of a Designer? Back in Joseph Smith's day he would not have had any idea about particles. No mention of them in the BoM. No mention of quantum physics. Then along comes science and discovers these properties of the universe. Suddenly God takes on the role of being behind those properties. In fact, each time we discover some deeper fact about how the universe works you have to move God one step backward in the process. In Smith's day it would have been acceptable for an educated man to say that God keeps the planets moving and has a hand in every day life. Today we know so much more about that stuff that it makes no sense to say that. God has been pushed back to an even more remote position, always occupying that space of knowledge where humans have not yet penetrated.

The term for that is God of the Gaps. You put God into the unknown spaces. Those areas of the map that say "here be monsters".

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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Merlin the Wizard wrote:
The globalists are pushing through their agenda.
No doubt! Consider this video as evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#97536
Mar 28, 2013
 

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
How to waste time redundantly, daily.
HA.
So you're admitting that your posts are bullshit? That's a first.
TruthIs

London, KY

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#97537
Mar 28, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, the Catholic Church was the leading institution of education during the Middle Ages in the Western world. If you wanted to learn, you could become a monk and spend most of your time learning. There were monks going into the East and introducing people to Western ideas and advances.
But that does not mean God did it. Nor does it mean religion makes you smart. It means the Catholic Church was the only power great enough to be able to offer that kind of space for learning. And at the time they had no reason to think that learning about reality via early quasi-science would damage faith. It wasn't until the 16 or 17th centuries when science started to really get going that the Church kinda figured out what was happening. Unrestricted critical thinking leads almost inevitably to the erosion of faith.
Because faith is antithetical to critical thinking. They do not go together very well. They can exist in the same mind, but they don't function simultaneously. To have faith, you cannot be critical. To be critical means to not have faith.
And by the way, the only people on the planet who denounce evolution are Creationists. And they are, to the man, stupid.
I've seen a lot of good, accurate info on SOME of dem dare uh "creationist" sites. Current even! Where you specifically referring to general creationists, young earth creationist, traditional creationists, Methodology creationists (uhoh LOL) or elsewise.
And who duh man in your literal instance? Plato, Derwood, St Augustine, Origen? I'll guess Derwood for you, mostly because man folk like he always get a little razzed when anyone doesn't agree with what might briefly beheld in ten second lapses of actual thought.
I can however acknowledge the statement of faith and critical thinking, NOT existing harmoniously in the same arena at times, being as one does require a more meditative state, rather than an active thought state, and based upon that, the statement does make logical sense.
Much more sense than blaming some God for everything wrong in the worlduh, OR thinking religion (especially minduhless spews of selected that are about as relevently applicable to anything as a household iron would be to a slab of marble) text makes anyone smert.
To some duh women, that kind of illogical nonsense is just stupid,

“There is no god”

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I think that every one should go to a church, how else can they burn them down?
Gay people are not under the old law, they are under grace. Gay people are not perfect they are just forgiven.
Is that a pork chop you are eating?
TruthIs

London, KY

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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pat wrote:
<quoted text>
...if there was a hell, and I did go, I bet I'd see alot of people with bibles next to me. LOLOLOLOLOL.
...so you wish your fire filled hell on me do you???
...well, I hope you get hit by a mack truck tomorrow, and possibly decapitated...and your head rolls far away, body left unrecognizable, burned to a crisp!...because you don't belive what I believe...
...did I beat your fire filled torture for eternity threat?...do I sound evil???
...I'm an atheist, suck my balls...fuck your god/gods...please send your threats my way, just so I know I wasted a little of your time.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL ....suck it!
That's not very nice, you COULD just say thank you, glad to see you reserving a seat to be joining me!

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#97540
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Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Christian don't want gays, but they would never discriminate against them.
Suuuuure, and you have some great land you'd like to sell me in Florida right?

“There is no god”

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Known Fact wrote:
THE ENCERDABLE CELL
There are 100 trillion cells in the human body and each cell has the DNA for the make up. That is SCIENTIFIC! Explain how that could come about through evolution.
OH AND BY THE WAY THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS EXPOSING AND DISPROVING YOUR EVOLUTION THEORY!
So you do not understand biology? You must have gone to school in Florida
TruthIs

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. I understand. After all people with faith in a creator aren't even human. They don't deserve respect, or even life. How dare anyone think differently than you. Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone believed and acted like you? Yeah, I can see that utopia right now. Religies are so intolerant of others beliefs. Not like you ... Or something like that.
The clues of the ignorance within...

Who in the hell would use a termn like "religie" to start with.

Instant "bigot stamp on forehead" lol.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#97543
Mar 28, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
1) If you already believe something to be true, then you search for evidence to back it up you are embracing a strong bias. Science, or critical thinking, is designed to eliminate as much bias as possible. However, scientists do seek evidence to support their hypothesis, which is similar to what you describe here. But there is a powerful difference. When a hypothesis is presented to a crowd of peers and those peers do not find the evidence compelling it is rejected. A good scientist then modifies the idea or abandons it. They do not cling to it out of faith. Faith is what you have when you lack a reason. It hangs on nothing but a feeling.
2) If you accept science (particles and junk) then why tack on the added complication of a Designer? Back in Joseph Smith's day he would not have had any idea about particles. No mention of them in the BoM. No mention of quantum physics. Then along comes science and discovers these properties of the universe. Suddenly God takes on the role of being behind those properties. In fact, each time we discover some deeper fact about how the universe works you have to move God one step backward in the process. In Smith's day it would have been acceptable for an educated man to say that God keeps the planets moving and has a hand in every day life. Today we know so much more about that stuff that it makes no sense to say that. God has been pushed back to an even more remote position, always occupying that space of knowledge where humans have not yet penetrated.
The term for that is God of the Gaps. You put God into the unknown spaces. Those areas of the map that say "here be monsters".
You have brought up some interesting points,great debate.
TruthIs

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said evidence wasn't important. I said there will never be proof, and that the plan was for us to have to rely on faith. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy searching for evidences of the things I believe. It's cool for me to run across something that affirms my faith.
Just because I believe in a creator, a higher power that had a hand in the intricate details of how particles work together, to the amazing human body, to the wonders if the universe, doesn't mean it's magic. It's just admitting that we aren't the smartest creatures in existence.
But yet, what other species can read, process and rationalize opinion.

On this planet anyway.

Things that can make people go hmmm...to have such innate ability and then for so many to STILL opt to act like much lower level of intelligence, near brainless animals, with out any modicom of ethical excuse.....why even Science warns Against the ignorance of such!

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
But yet, what other species can read, process and rationalize opinion.
On this planet anyway.
Things that can make people go hmmm...to have such innate ability and then for so many to STILL opt to act like much lower level of intelligence, near brainless animals, with out any modicom of ethical excuse.....why even Science warns Against the ignorance of such!
Other apes, and some chimps. Try this "thought experiment," come up with one trait humans have which no other animal has, dare you to.

Oh, and it has to be a real one, "soul" is not supported by evidence, nor is "spirit."
TruthIs

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
"All I can do is explain it to you, I cannot understand it for you"
Oh and by the way, no it isn't...
Couldn't you've have just referenced quantumn PHYSICS. Theoretically, it does classify in it's own realms, rather than that of the continual evolutionary process based upon stuff that was already there (the key words being already there)...

tsk

“There is no god”

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#97547
Mar 28, 2013
 

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James Holmes, the Co. shooter has accepted jesus as his savior and asked god for forgiveness so he is now your brother (if you are a christian) ad will be in heaven with you i love
Bwahahahaha
TruthIs

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're admitting that your posts are bullshit? That's a first.
In the field of many piles of it!!!!!!

Wanna see it out the left corner of mouthage?
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#97549
Mar 28, 2013
 
Merlin the Wizard wrote:
The globalists are pushing through their agenda.
Like imposing tax on emails and each gigabyte used.

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#97550
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TruthIs wrote:
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I've seen a lot of good, accurate info on SOME of dem dare uh "creationist" sites. Current even! Where you specifically referring to general creationists, young earth creationist, traditional creationists, Methodology creationists (uhoh LOL) or elsewise.
They're all idiots. They all start with a proposition (god created everything) and then try to find data to support it. Which leads to cherry picking, fabrication, and ignoring contradictory data. It's the exact opposite of the scientific method.
I had a hard time making sense of the rest of your post. Either I haven't had enough coffee yet, or you haven't had enough meds yet. Not sure which...
TruthIs

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Mar 28, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
I think that every one should go to a church, how else can they burn them down?
Gay people are not under the old law, they are under grace. Gay people are not perfect they are just forgiven.
Is that a pork chop you are eating?
Do yew like the Geico lizard or the piglet better?

We won't hate yew for your own personal preference lol.

Since: Mar 13

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#97552
Mar 28, 2013
 
Byy

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