Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 147223 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

TruthIs

London, KY

#97373 Mar 26, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It wasn't built on "In God We Trust." That was a kneejerk that came later. WTF? Did you flunk out of American History 102?
As aptly as the Constitutional was written, don't you think that if they (the Founding Fathers) intended to write "in the year of our potus 17 hundred blablahblah"...they would've?
But NO, that is NOT what they wrote-they wrote and signed names to-

..."done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,....."

Geez, pull your fingers out yer ears and from your nose will ya please.
happy

Lexington, KY

#97374 Mar 26, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
I do not understand how any rational modern person who can read would believe in a god some desert goat herders in the middle east made up a few thousand years ago.
The fundies here act like the christian cult is an American religion. News flash, you are a part of a religion made up in the middle east, just like musims
News flash WRONG but your opinion is interesting to hear. You keep me smiling for sure.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#97375 Mar 26, 2013
happy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's my answer lol. Only answer. Your challenge that you don't agree. I believe every word and I'm HAPPY JOYFUL PEACEFUL even when the world crashes around me. You as well?
Here's the thing. He presented you with a classic Christian dilemma called The Problem of Evil. Philosophers and theologians have wrestled this one for thousands of years with no satisfying answer. So there is no way you can possibly give him a satisfying answer.

But you didn't even give him an answer. You dodged the question.

Let's put the question into some context:

You already said God is basically love. Do you also believe that God is all powerful?

If so, consider this story from India:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/i...

"But it was two more days before a farmer found their bodies floating in the dark water at the bottom of a deep well in a corner of a paddyfield one mile from their home.

Even then, police initially treated the deaths as an accident. It was not until villagers started blocking the highway in protest that they started to pay attention. Two days later, the results of the postmortem examination came through and the story exploded. The girls had been raped and murdered, the report said."

So here is a case where three little girls were raped, murdered, and tossed down a well.

Do you think God knew this was happening? If so, what reason can you think of for God to allow it to happen?

You already said God is all loving. Is rape and murder a sign of love?

If it is a matter of free will and the murderers were exercising their free will to rape and kill, then how did the free will of the children come into play? They were free to be terrified, in pain, and finally succumb to the dark, cold waters of a deep well?

You can believe in God all day long but this bullsh*t about God being a "loving" deity is just offensive in the face of crimes like this.
happy

Lexington, KY

#97376 Mar 26, 2013
I'm tired of playing tonight. My heart is burdened for the lost souls represented here. I pray that their eyes and ears be opened to the truth so that they all may come to know Your love, peace and the pure joy that comes from knowing You Jesus. In Jesus name. Amen.
TruthIs

London, KY

#97377 Mar 26, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Nope, sorry but "in god we trust" was added to money over a century after this country was founde.
In fact our forefathers where AGAINST the christian cult.
Nice try with your lie
Please READ the Constitution.

Pay close attention when you get to the very last paragraph-just before the many signatures of the Founding Fathers.

Ever read Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists?

If he only knew then, the outcome and cause and effect of socialism abused, over used and gone awry, he would've a surtax right then and there!!!!!!

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#97378 Mar 26, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Like ANY sector doesn't weaken under the delusions of dolluhs makes everything just perfectee.
Why, let's look at PolTICS, for the perfectee example of some of THAT kinda stuff.
Now get your dolluh dangling fishing pole outer muh face lol.
What? You mean to say that Big Pharma has bought and paid for FDA officials and legislators? Man, am I disillusioned. Whoda thunk that would be possible? I thought the reason Purdue was allowed to make excessive quantities of OxyContin was for the public good - maybe to take some of the flack off of the other "opiate of the masses."

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#97380 Mar 26, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Both 1 and 2 involve faith. I fully admit that. I have said before I believe that's one of the main reasons we are on this earth, to have our faith tested. With proof, there is no room for faith.
How about this: for those that have faith in God, and believe the Bible to be the word of God, why can't there be other records from other groups of people that Jesus visited when He told us he was leaving to tend to other sheep?
And as for 1. That was the purpose of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon. If you read the testimonies of the people that wrote what they saw, they did so to say that they saw and handled the gold plates and witnessed the angel Moroni that brought it forth.
Again I realize faith is required because one could argue that these men were all in cahoots. Though it isn't plausible to me that these men would risk their lives to do all of this, lose everything they had and still die poor.
Some of them even got mad at Joseph at some point and turned away from him but never denounced the BOM and what they said they witnessed.
I only accept truth claims based on evidence and reason. I have no interest in faith.

Think about what you just said. You know it requires faith. You believe evidence undermines faith. You've chosen one story out of thousands to put your faith in. Isn't that a little bit silly?

Regarding Smith, the witnesses are not exactly reliable. They were family, friends, and business partners. And they were not exactly critical thinkers either. They did not in fact see much of anything they claimed to see.

I realize that doesn't sit well with the Mormon version, which is essentially a religious version that promotes the Prophet's magical powers. But reality has no interest in what the LDS wants you to believe, only in what actually seems to be the case.

Who has the golden tablets now, anyway?
TruthIs

London, KY

#97381 Mar 26, 2013
happy wrote:
I'm tired of playing tonight. My heart is burdened for the lost souls represented here. I pray that their eyes and ears be opened to the truth so that they all may come to know Your love, peace and the pure joy that comes from knowing You Jesus. In Jesus name. Amen.
Yeah, no one should have to be miserable when there's no need to be, and that guy Jesus really seemed like a pretty good guy.
happy

Lexington, KY

#97382 Mar 26, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Here's the thing. He presented you with a classic Christian dilemma called The Problem of Evil. Philosophers and theologians have wrestled this one for thousands of years with no satisfying answer. So there is no way you can possibly give him a satisfying answer.

But you didn't even give him an answer. You dodged the question.

Let's put the question into some context:

You already said God is basically love. Do you also believe that God is all powerful?

If so, consider this story from India:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/i...

"But it was two more days before a farmer found their bodies floating in the dark water at the bottom of a deep well in a corner of a paddyfield one mile from their home.

Even then, police initially treated the deaths as an accident. It was not until villagers started blocking the highway in protest that they started to pay attention. Two days later, the results of the postmortem examination came through and the story exploded. The girls had been raped and murdered, the report said."

So here is a case where three little girls were raped, murdered, and tossed down a well.

Do you think God knew this was happening? If so, what reason can you think of for God to allow it to happen?

You already said God is all loving. Is rape and murder a sign of love?

If it is a matter of free will and the murderers were exercising their free will to rape and kill, then how did the free will of the children come into play? They were free to be terrified, in pain, and finally succumb to the dark, cold waters of a deep well?

You can believe in God all day long but this bullsh*t about God being a "loving" deity is just offensive in the face of crimes like this.
There is PAIN and EVIL in all the world. No where in the bible does it state differently. We.. People..began the sin problem.. We live with it now daily in many forms. It will not go away until Jesus returns. It rains on the just and unjust. Blessings and cursings. It's what we do with our life after the bad horrible situations/conditions that matters. If they change. We r a super blessed people just living in the states.
GOD does not cause evil. If you KNOW GOD again, you will know these answers. Again it's a mystery to those who don't. These people (you included) I am certain are much more intelligent than myself... But God did use a donkey...He also uses me. I could go on and on but on here ... Nope... It would only be debunked by people who have a BETTER answer. You seek God, then you will have their answer and so will they...it's not my job to prove anything. I already have my proof..
God bless you

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#97383 Mar 26, 2013
happy wrote:
I'm tired of playing tonight. My heart is burdened for the lost souls represented here. I pray that their eyes and ears be opened to the truth so that they all may come to know Your love, peace and the pure joy that comes from knowing You Jesus. In Jesus name. Amen.
While I find this to be utter boloney, I do appreciate the sentiment. I always smile and thank people who say they pray for me because I think they really mean well.

It is ok if you can't address the questions asked here. Rape and murder of children in the full knowledge of your God is probably a pretty hard pill to swallow. And if you think about how many babies are killed every single day across the world by everything from disease to starvation to natural disaster to murder is makes your heart very heavy. Especially when Jesus is supposed to be the one looking out for us.

Night.
TruthIs

London, KY

#97384 Mar 26, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
I do not understand how any rational modern person who can read would believe in a god some desert goat herders in the middle east made up a few thousand years ago.
The fundies here act like the christian cult is an American religion. News flash, you are a part of a religion made up in the middle east, just like musims
Do you think it was because people were getting tired of poking out eyes, cutting off hands and all that other dark age, control freakish stuff-and started preferring better ways-like peace goodwill and kindness towards other instead?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#97385 Mar 26, 2013
happy wrote:
<quoted text>
There is PAIN and EVIL in all the world. No where in the bible does it state differently. We.. People..began the sin problem.. We live with it now daily in many forms. It will not go away until Jesus returns. It rains on the just and unjust. Blessings and cursings. It's what we do with our life after the bad horrible situations/conditions that matters. If they change. We r a super blessed people just living in the states.
GOD does not cause evil. If you KNOW GOD again, you will know these answers. Again it's a mystery to those who don't. These people (you included) I am certain are much more intelligent than myself... But God did use a donkey...He also uses me. I could go on and on but on here ... Nope... It would only be debunked by people who have a BETTER answer. You seek God, then you will have their answer and so will they...it's not my job to prove anything. I already have my proof..
God bless you
So we are born with sin (out of our hands) and God is the cure for that disease? Yet it was God who constructed the world in which that disease came into being.

That's the problem, you see. If God really is everything you think he is then he is ultimately responsible for every nasty, horrifying thing that has ever happened.

And there have been a lot of those things over the years.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#97386 Mar 26, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
As aptly as the Constitutional was written, don't you think that if they (the Founding Fathers) intended to write "in the year of our potus 17 hundred blablahblah"...they would've?
But NO, that is NOT what they wrote-they wrote and signed names to-
..."done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,....."
Geez, pull your fingers out yer ears and from your nose will ya please.
You think that writing "In the Year of Our Lord" means anything more than 1787 AD? Nah. Hasn't anybody told you that if you keep fiddlin' with yer brain like that you'll go blind?
If you find "In God We Trust" in the Constitution you've got some kind of bootleg edition probably published by someone like the Tea Party Baptist Church and Internet Sweepstakes Parlor For Jesus, Inc.
TruthIs

London, KY

#97387 Mar 26, 2013
TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a personal "Constitutional freedom OF" thing... NOT an ego tripping, power questing "control-freakish" thing, no matter which denominational rail post, or fence side, anyone sits upon.
'Cause I don't believe ALL "Christians" are "evil" either...because in MY opinion, to think such would be representative of T-total ignorance.
Kinda like nothing more than low level, animalisTic "herd pack" MENTALity.
That's the kind of stuff that a lot of the darker moments of many of the "histronics and hysteria" times of history are comprised of.
Did you know...before Science correctly identified tuberculosis, people used to think that people afflicted with it were possessed by vampires?
Unbelievable what (non) remedies were practiced in efforts to "cure" the afflicted of such,(non)cures that often just made the spread of the disease even worse.
Classic example of "ignorance 101"...tuberculosis (aka "consumption")in the 1700's.
and for whomever "judged"...

Tuberculosis, also known as “consumption,”“phthisis,” or the “white plague,” was the cause of more deaths in industrialized countries than any other disease during the 19th and early 20th centuries. By the late 19th century, 70 to 90% of the urban populations of Europe and North America were infected with the TB bacillus, and about 80% of those individuals who developed active tuberculosis ...

Tuberculosis in Europe and North America, 1800–1922.

Harvard University Open Library Collection:Contagions; Historical views of Diseases and epidemics.

History & Archaeology

The Great New England Vampire Panic
Two hundred years after the Salem witch trials, farmers became convinced that their relatives were returning from the grave to feed on the living

Though scholars today still struggle to explain the vampire panics, a key detail unites them: The public hysteria almost invariably occurred in the midst of savage tuberculosis outbreaks. Indeed, the medical museum’s tests ultimately revealed that J.B. had suffered from tuberculosis, or a lung disease very like it. Typically, a rural family contracted the wasting illness, and—even though they often received the standard medical diagnosis—the survivors blamed early victims as “vampires,” responsible for preying upon family members who subsequently fell sick. Often an exhumation was called for, to stop the vampire’s predations.

Tucker, A. The-Great-New-England-Vampire- Panic. The Smithsonian. October 2012.
TruthIs

London, KY

#97388 Mar 26, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
You think that writing "In the Year of Our Lord" means anything more than 1787 AD? Nah. Hasn't anybody told you that if you keep fiddlin' with yer brain like that you'll go blind?
If you find "In God We Trust" in the Constitution you've got some kind of bootleg edition probably published by someone like the Tea Party Baptist Church and Internet Sweepstakes Parlor For Jesus, Inc.
I didn't write-I just READ it.

(and don't try and sell me any snake oil either-there's too much recorded documentation attesting to even the specifically reserved SEATS, some of them sat upon, in years of the houses of their "Lord", Amen.
(TPBC..stay on your own side of the middle of the fence post- rail, fisher worm lol)
GWB

Roseville, CA

#97389 Mar 26, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Both 1 and 2 involve faith. I fully admit that. I have said before I believe that's one of the main reasons we are on this earth, to have our faith tested. With proof, there is no room for faith.
How about this: for those that have faith in God, and believe the Bible to be the word of God, why can't there be other records from other groups of people that Jesus visited when He told us he was leaving to tend to other sheep?
And as for 1. That was the purpose of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon. If you read the testimonies of the people that wrote what they saw, they did so to say that they saw and handled the gold plates and witnessed the angel Moroni that brought it forth.
Again I realize faith is required because one could argue that these men were all in cahoots. Though it isn't plausible to me that these men would risk their lives to do all of this, lose everything they had and still die poor.
Some of them even got mad at Joseph at some point and turned away from him but never denounced the BOM and what they said they witnessed.
I think that is correct about religion, that it is based on faith and not proof. Some read the bible and have faith not fully understanding anything or really caring except to be a good person and practicing what they think the bible requires of them. A hope of seeing their loves ones after they have died or just doing it because of the fear of eternal torment by God.

Christians in African countries have faith in God and still burn humans alive for what they think are those practicing witchcraft. Is that pleasing to God because of doing so, somehow I feel that would be wrong if I was a God. Yet their faith will somehow give them a pass to heaven they believe. It makes one wonder how this could be?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#97390 Mar 26, 2013
LOL in a suit wrote:
<quoted text>Lol, good one, religies never let ya down.
You looking for an alter boy? Lmao, that was a good one also.
Wrong religion.
And I think my question was relevant based on the level of maturity you are showing. You're out to show how stupid "religies" are? Hmmm, how's that backfiring, I mean working out for you?
what

Elkhorn City, KY

#97391 Mar 26, 2013
WTF wrote:
<quoted text> what the heck is wrong with people these days? this country was built on IN GOD WE TRUST. hello? are u all nuts, or what? seriously, wtf. without the knowledge of the power of GOD we will not prosper. thanks for being one of those who suck and will send this country straight to hell. yes, hell's a real place, as so is heaven.
in god we trust wasnt part of this country until the 1950's. do some research about the motto and the pledge of allegiance while u are at it. this country was not founded for the christians, it was made to get away from the christian idiots in europe.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#97392 Mar 26, 2013
-NEPHILIM- wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, not the best with compliments. I think it comes from years of being taught that I was better than everyone and God was going to kill everyone that didn't believe my way.
I'm going to do some more research on the Mormon/ JW connection. Their beliefs are just to close to not be linked together somehow. So far it seems Rutherford might be the copy cat and I'm cool with that. My beef is with those idiots anyway.
Do you guys not do Christmas or is that just a JW thing?
Yes we celebrate Christmas, and birthdays (I know JW don't). We do celebrate on Dec 25, but we believe Him to be born on April 6.

Makes sense since Joseph was returning to pay his taxes. Taxes were in April then too as far as Biblical scholars say.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#97394 Mar 26, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I only accept truth claims based on evidence and reason. I have no interest in faith.
I'm sorry you don't have interest in faith. Millions of others do.

I don't think evidence undermines faith. I haven't seen evidence to debunk my faith. I chose this faith because of the 200 and something religions I studied, this is the one in which I felt the Spirit of God.

And how can you say "in fact" what those witnesses saw? And if I were to sign my name saying that God bears witness of it, I would not be prone to lie. These men weren't atheists, they were God fearing.

Also, the first 3 witnesses were not family of Joseph, nor were they acquaintances until Joseph started talking about his experiences. The second proclamation of witnesses (of the 8) included 3 family members. The other 5 were strangers until the work of translation began. But again, I said it's easy to dispute the integrity of these men, now that they are all dead and we can't interrogate them.

What magical powers are you talking about?

The angel Moroni took them back so Joseph would not be stalked the rest of his life. Too many people had already tried to kill him to acquire the gold. Moroni was the same that buried them in ancient times, and appeared to Joseph to show him where they were buried.

Just for reference:
Testimony of Three Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.



Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.



Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

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