Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,030

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96453 Mar 18, 2013
13 million, not 30 million. Sorry.

Does that number include people you baptize after they die or is that the roster of living people?

How many of those people are in a "3rd world" country? It seems like religious cults like to prey on people who are living in poverty and lack education.
Solution

Manchester, KY

#96454 Mar 18, 2013
what wrote:
This would be in direct conflict to the 1st Amendment to the Constitution - Separation of Church and State - and everyone's right to their own religious belief (or non-belief).
The constitution is said to be a living document. It can be changed to suit the needs of others. This should be a class and it would help on literature. However if kids just don't feel comfortable with it they shouldn't have to take it.
PREVIOUS PATIENT AT KDMC

Grayson, KY

#96455 Mar 18, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Sure, let me give you some examples. First; I was recently in a class at the public vocational school. The instructer is a baptist and two of the students are mormons. I was hassled every single day by these three, told that I would burn in Hell, that if they had a dime they would woop my ass (I handed him a quarter and he shut up, I am not weak) I did not push my beliefs on them but I did not allow them to force their beliefs on to me.
My wife and I used to go to church with her mother (we had to fake being church people) and they preached not to do business with the secular people, not to socialize with them and not to allow our children to play with them.
Again, we have had many threats of violence from christians been refused service by christians at businesses (the manager had to check us out)
I am fed up with this crap from the christian cult. I am fighting back, I no longer co-exist but rather treat people in the exact same way they treat me.
The last time some sissy christian told my wife he was going to throw gas on her and light her on fire he did not know I was standing behind him, we both laughed as he RAN away.
IF I went around making threats of burning christians alive what do you think would come of that?
My wifes brother, a Deacon in his rich church, who designs bombs to kill more people for a defense contractor, when he thought we where church people told us we where not good christians because we did not have as much money as he and his wife.(we make more now)
The christian cult is about elevating themselves above others, social status and wealth.
Oh, when we stopped going to church with my wifes mother not one person called us from the church, but her mother, who gives $550.00 every two weeks, gets several phone calls if she misses a sundy. We used to go out for lunch with them after church and got along with them but at the time did not have a great deal of.....you guessed it, money
I have heard the "you can not afford not to give" sermon from three different preachers (all of them had the same life story? WOW) seen the fake old lady in the wheelchair get up and walk (yes fake, I saw her walk from her car to the wheelchair) the fake speaking in tongues (god was angry because the people where not giving like they should)
Plus I have read the bible (why christians get mad when they try to push their cult on to me, I quote the bible to them) and have no doubt that the whole jewish god thing was made up to elevate them above others and then used to control the masses and make huge sums of money
PLEASE let me start by apologizing for the actions of my "so called fellow Christians". I am a Christian & Proud to be so! Let me assure you that the GOD I serve, DOES NOT teach or represent the ways of THOSE you describe! Did you know the Bible says "WOE be unto the Pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith The Lord.(Jeremiah 23:1) KJV
I share this with you because I believe you & your family have been lead wrong. Please believe GOD is Love, the SAME yesterday, today, & forever! I'm not pushing my Beliefs on you, just asking you to at least try to see the other side of Christianity you haven't experienced. Please let me ASSURE you that ALL Christians ARE NOT what you HAVE experienced! Thank you in advance for listening to me & MY BELIEFS!

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

#96456 Mar 18, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
In zen, all things contain beauty. Still your mind as the rasters slowly descend from the ether....
These days if my mind gets much stiller someone will be filling up the hole I'm laid out in....

I prefer to call it the Quantum State by the way... ether presumes a substance that matter moves through ... The Quantum State moves and stretches always connected to all individual particles of matter and acts as an inverse tensor between physical particles....

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96458 Mar 18, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Overall, I suppose Mormons might be less unintelligent than say, JWs or Southern Baptists, not quite as nutty as Scientologists or Rosicucians and far more tolerant and infinitely more tolerable than Muslims. I've found the ones I've known to be good company, despite the idiosyncrasies and expectations of their... handicap.
I would have voted for Marie before Mitt, but then atheists & agnostics never had any religious elders telling them that females are chattel and that they could own as many as they could afford.
Intelligence cannot be linked to religious preference. I hope you really aren't suggesting that there is no such thing as an intellect that has faith in a higher power

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96459 Mar 18, 2013
Wings wrote:
This thread is a snake pit that flows with demonic venom. It is a waste. Shake the dust from your feet Do whut and move on. It is definitely a case of casting your pearls before swine. Believe me. Posting only provides them with the opportunity to blaspheme.
I see your point, but if there is one person reading that may come to a better understanding of why a person has faith in something not proven, nor disproved, then it is worth it.
I won't let it interfere with my real life though, so I may be scarce from time to time

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96460 Mar 18, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>There is no god.
I do not understand how a religion stared by the jewish people to elevate themselves became the christian religion. Reading the bible you see that it is about hate and blood. Nothing more.
The christian religion is more of an excuse to do what ever because there is total forgiveness. So rape a child or rob the elderly it is all good
That is not what true Christianity stands for. Repentance only happens when one turns from the sin, never repeats it, and takes whatever (if any) actions can be taken to repair the damage caused. Anything less, is hypocrisy.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96462 Mar 18, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Again, I don't see how claiming that other people do something is any kind of defense. Lots of people drive drunk. Does that make it ok to drive drunk?

Do you include the baptized dead in your 30 million count (or whatever it was)?

Maybe it doesn't take that long if you get the right people but I have heard several former Mormons say that getting their name removed was very hard. They basically wrote letters asking to be removed and, after checking a year or two later, found they were still listed. I'm sure everyone's experience is different.

I appreciate that you like your faith but I can tell you aren't very willing to engage in the direct challenges. I think you are side stepping some of my points.

Book of Abraham. Baptisms for the dead. Racial doctrine. Lack of archeological evidence.

There are plenty more, but those are some whoppers to deal with. How do you deal with them?
I'm not meaning to sidestep. I'm answering on my phone so it's tough to see what you said when I'm replying. Lets take them one issue at a time if we can, ok? I really don't mean to sidestep.

Ok, so I'm only bringing up other religions that practice similar things to show that it was not invented by Joseph Smith. It comes from ancient times and it is easy for me to see the similarities in religions and that they may have stemmed from one source and have been diluted or changed over thousands of years.

No the membership count only counts living members. And we do not baptize dead people into our church. The practice of baptism for the dead, which is mentioned in the New Testament, gives someone the opportunity to accept the ordinance or not.
If a person dies and never had the chance to accept Christ's gospel, they will have the opportunity in the spirit world as we wait for judgment day. This is evident to me when Jesus goes to teach the souls in prison. Why would He if they had no opportunity to choose to accept him? So since the ordinance of baptism is necessary to obtain the kingdom of God, we do it for them so if they decide to accept Christ, the ordinance is done. They choose to accept it or not. We won't know until we see them again.

Obviously, if they are still aware of their surroundings, and they thought there was no afterlife, they are probably rethinking their position, eh? Haha

So what's the next specific question. I'll try to answer as best my simple mind can

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96463 Mar 18, 2013
Yiago wrote:
13 million, not 30 million. Sorry.

Does that number include people you baptize after they die or is that the roster of living people?

How many of those people are in a "3rd world" country? It seems like religious cults like to prey on people who are living in poverty and lack education.
Just living and on the rosters. I'd guess it's up to 15 million now and only about 11 million are active (totally my guess).

The majority of our members are in North and South America I believe.
heaven

Elizabethtown, KY

#96464 Mar 18, 2013
i agree it would be to hard with all the different religion.
PREVIOUS PATIENT AT KDMC

Grayson, KY

#96465 Mar 18, 2013
-NEPHILIM- wrote:
<quoted text>
I was raised a JW and we were not allowed to have friends or hang out with anyone who wasn't a fellow JW. We called anyone who wasn't a JW a Worldly person and as far as marriage, we could not marry outside our faith. As children we were not allowed to go to sleep overs, play after school sports or do anything that would be considered hanging out with worldly people.
They use that to keep their members trapped in because the only friends you have are fellow JWs and if you get shunned, then you lose all the friends you have as well as your family. A weak minded person is not willing to lose those things so they stay in even if they don't believe its the truth.
My reply was in conjunction with Satanic Priests' comments. However, If you feel being raised in the way you were, is a reason to attack Christians, please don't. JW is totally different than Christianity. JW's have their own written Bible they choose to follow, NOT the Christian Bible! I'm truly sorry for the solidarity you endured, but please be ASSURED, whoever did this to you will surely have to answer for their actions, as will EVERY person that has ever lived!(Believers & Non-Believers). Thank you for listening.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#96466 Mar 18, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Intelligence cannot be linked to religious preference. I hope you really aren't suggesting that there is no such thing as an intellect that has faith in a higher power
Intelligence and gullibility are neither mutually dependent nor mutually exclusive. However, it is a telling point that those who we now regard as the greatest minds in history are not renowned for sitting in the back of the church - nor in the front of one.
What is a higher power? Only a fool does not recognize that there are powers greater than ourselves. Try to climb Mount Everest solo, complete Einstein's Unified Field Theory, don't pay the IRS, lick a light socket, argue with your mother in law.... Have faith in a higher power? Sure, one can have faith that gravity will not fail, that a vehicle will follow laws of motion, that the Earth will spin and the sun will rise. Have faith in a Higher Power? Seriously? You think that putting an omniscient, omnipotent, para-eternal personality in the straight jacket of a human written book is in any way or possibility convincing?
I contend that in the pursuit of becoming a power greater than ourselves, humans take the easiest and shortest route. Call it theology, mythology, spiritualism, mysticism, whatever - we create Gods in our own image. Perhaps I do not accept the fantasies because I don't believe in circumventing reality to reach a desired conclusion, or maybe it's just because (I'll be the first to admit that) I've never been a good liar.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#96467 Mar 18, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
These days if my mind gets much stiller someone will be filling up the hole I'm laid out in....
I prefer to call it the Quantum State by the way... ether presumes a substance that matter moves through ... The Quantum State moves and stretches always connected to all individual particles of matter and acts as an inverse tensor between physical particles....
Or as a Taoist might put it, horse pucky p'u p'u?

I was relatively certain you weren't referring to the Beehive State. However, by ether I meant the internet, which in many ways may well be the antithesis of zen.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96468 Mar 19, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not what true Christianity stands for. Repentance only happens when one turns from the sin, never repeats it, and takes whatever (if any) actions can be taken to repair the damage caused. Anything less, is hypocrisy.
According to both Calvin and Luther your actions don't really mean that much. You basically have no control at all, otherwise you elevate yourself closer to being like God. Rather, you are utterly depraived and utterly in his control.

They do say that your actions can only reflect the grace you may or may not be given but it surely does not influence it.

Also, let's pretend I rape a child. Let's say I'm possessed with this intense lust for children. So I do it. Then, racked with guilt and repentance, I pray and find salvation. Then I fall away and rape again. Then I come back to Christ.

Rinse and repeat.

At what point does Jesus say enough is enough? Based on my understanding of Christianity and what I've been taught in various churches Jesus will NEVER say that. So in theory I could commit the most horrible crimes imaginable and still end up in Heaven.

That is why I reject any argument that religion is a required element of morality. It clearly does not prevent bad behavior. And since I know for a fact you can be moral without religion I have no particular reason to think religion has anything to do with morality at all.

Consider that in my example a repeating child rapist can still end up in heaven, no matter how many lives he shatters. But if he ever rejects God then he ends up in Hell.

That tells me something important about the nature of God: he's kind of an a**hole. Who wants to devote his life to an a**hole?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96469 Mar 19, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not meaning to sidestep. I'm answering on my phone so it's tough to see what you said when I'm replying. Lets take them one issue at a time if we can, ok? I really don't mean to sidestep.
Ok, so I'm only bringing up other religions that practice similar things to show that it was not invented by Joseph Smith. It comes from ancient times and it is easy for me to see the similarities in religions and that they may have stemmed from one source and have been diluted or changed over thousands of years.
No the membership count only counts living members. And we do not baptize dead people into our church. The practice of baptism for the dead, which is mentioned in the New Testament, gives someone the opportunity to accept the ordinance or not.
If a person dies and never had the chance to accept Christ's gospel, they will have the opportunity in the spirit world as we wait for judgment day. This is evident to me when Jesus goes to teach the souls in prison. Why would He if they had no opportunity to choose to accept him? So since the ordinance of baptism is necessary to obtain the kingdom of God, we do it for them so if they decide to accept Christ, the ordinance is done. They choose to accept it or not. We won't know until we see them again.
Obviously, if they are still aware of their surroundings, and they thought there was no afterlife, they are probably rethinking their position, eh? Haha
So what's the next specific question. I'll try to answer as best my simple mind can
Thanks for the reply. I understand the phone thing. I cannot even do this with my current phone because the stupid Topix app is a total disaster on the Android.

Do you not think baptisms for the dead is offensive to non Mormons? Let me tell you very clearly: if someone I loved was used in one of these silly ceremonies I would be livid. Not because I think baptism does anything at all other than get you wet, but because it is an insult to the person's memory. It's like a sneak attack. Can't get 'em in life, let's go after their corpse.

If your church does not do this then good for your church. Now ask your church to denounce the practice and I'll be more impressed.

Regarding other questions, I would like to know how you deal with the Book of Abraham. Smith's translation of the papyri was totally wrong. Not even in the same ballpark. How can that be possible if he is a Prophet of God?

And there's no such thing as "Reformed Egyptian". He made that up. How does that square with his holy standing?
Blahblahblah

Manchester, KY

#96470 Mar 19, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, right... Sorry - didn't mean to leave the Amish out. You know how inconsiderate us English are.
Okayyy..just don't be throwing your trash out the window. Looking at the occassional horse puckey would be better than throwing trash out the windows. Who does that chit anyway-especially sitting in a parking lot, that belongs to tax payers. Really?(now THAT is trashy!) Sorry tailed English.
Blahblahblah

Manchester, KY

#96471 Mar 19, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>There is no god.
I do not understand how a religion stared by the jewish people to elevate themselves became the christian religion. Reading the bible you see that it is about hate and blood. Nothing more.
The christian religion is more of an excuse to do what ever because there is total forgiveness. So rape a child or rob the elderly it is all good
You don't throw your trash out of windows do you?
----------
“Let us never forget that authentic power is service,” he said.“Only those who serve with love are able to protect.”

The pope defined his idea of protection as “respecting each of God’s creatures and respecting the environment in which we live.” He said:

It means protecting people, showing loving concern for each and every person, especially children, the elderly, those in need, who are often the last we think about. It means caring for one another in our families: Husbands and wives first protect one another, and then, as parents, they care for their children, and children themselves, in time, protect their parents. It means building sincere friendships in which we protect one another in trust, respect, and goodness. In the end, everything has been entrusted to our protection, and all of us are responsible for it. Be protectors of God’s gifts!

Pope Francis, March 18 2013.

(See..if you remove the lumpandlabelduhmduhmness and just look at it from a human humane point of view- maybe some are not ALL bad)
Blahblahblah

Manchester, KY

#96472 Mar 19, 2013
Yiago wrote:
13 million, not 30 million. Sorry.
Does that number include people you baptize after they die or is that the roster of living people?
How many of those people are in a "3rd world" country? It seems like religious cults like to prey on people who are living in poverty and lack education.
I've seen unscrupulous secular people do that too. Can't stand that kind of stuff. It's just sooooooooooooo wrong.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96473 Mar 19, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>
(5) "mountain of evidence in support of evolution"
"fossil record"?
Even you should know... yer fossil record just proves
"Something died" Period...
That is the biggest part of your "mountain of evidence",
and it only Proves the Flood that you deny!
So, let me get this straight. You think that the fossil record is just evidence of the biblical flood?
The fossil record that provides evidence of life spanning hundreds of millions of years?
The fossil record that shows, in great detail, generational change in species over vast timelines(millions of years) is less convincing to you than a fairy tale about a guy with a really big boat who saved all the animals?
Blahblahblah

Manchester, KY

#96474 Mar 19, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
So, let me get this straight. You think that the fossil record is just evidence of the biblical flood?
The fossil record that provides evidence of life spanning hundreds of millions of years?
The fossil record that shows, in great detail, generational change in species over vast timelines(millions of years) is less convincing to you than a fairy tale about a guy with a really big boat who saved all the animals?
All eight local species of the time, pre-camel travel era?

(I bet there wasn't bunches of trash to throw out the windows!)

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