Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 153686 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

happy

Louisville, KY

#96339 Mar 17, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>Well, at least you admit you're ignorant about the things you disagree with. I guess admitting you have a problem is a start.
Again la de dah. And I'm HAPPY and going to Heaven. Ignorance and all :-)

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96340 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Not this story, but the actual story is written in Joseph Smith History.
A group of people were traveling through making money by showing off mummies and some other items. Joseph was impressed to buy some of the items. Among the items purchased were several papyri scrolls. One if which was the story of Abraham while in Egypt. The funerary scripts were among the papyri as well, and is now in a museum. He kept the Book of Abraham separate. I don't know where it's location is now.
This Book is a part of our standard scriptures and is included in what we call the Pearl of Great Price.
No offense, but that is a bunch LDS propaganda. Step outside the LDS circles and you will find that nobody takes the Book of Abraham seriously. Smith did not have any idea how to read ancient Egyptian. In fact nobody at the time had figured it out.

The LDS itself wanted to have the papyri translated to validate their Prophet. But it turns out he was wrong. It had nothing at all to do with Abraham.

And this argument that *some* of the papyri were related to Abraham, and kept separate...that's just batty. Do you not see that this is a post hoc rationalization?

Smith was an obvious fraud. I don't know how an otherwise intelligent person could not see that.

And we're just talking about one little element of the fraud. We could go into a slew of other problems with the BoM. Everything from "white and delightsome" skin color to where in the heck are the archeological remnants of the battles that Smith describes taking place *right here* the USA?

It's a very, very silly religion. Luckily nobody takes it too seriously so most Mormons are just regular people. But it has to take a lot of energy to carry around that much cognitive dissonance every day.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96341 Mar 17, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Do you accept that Muslims also experience God via their Prophet? If so, how are the two compatible? They speak of explicitly different ideas. Do you hold that both can be true at the same time?
I believe that the Spirit of God can be everywhere. Its presence can be felt by all. I believe that God can speak to man anytime He feels necessary. I believe He can call a prophet to be His mouthpiece in different locations at the same time. I also believe that prophets are not perfect, because they are human and fallible. But I do not think that everyone that professes to be a prophet, is actually a prophet.
Truth can be spoken by anyone, but the difference is, a prophet is the person set apart to lead God's people and speak His words to them.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96342 Mar 17, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Bullsh it
Care to expound?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96343 Mar 17, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
So explain to me how your god was afraid that when man built the tower of Babble they would reach heaven and nothing would be denied them but when we built tall buildings and sent men to space your god was silent.
If man could reach heaven from a tall tower how come telescopes and spacecraft do not find heaven?
I don't recall God being afraid they would reach Heaven. I remember God seeing that people had become so wicked and that they thought they could get to Heaven on their own, instead of how He designed. So He confounded their languages and sent them to different lands.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96344 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I think I'm speaking pretty openly about everything.
Have you read the Book of Mormon? I don't remember thinking it was silly, even when I wasn't a member.
The whole reason the church is appearing mainstream, is because the members are much more visible, and for the first time in 200 years, people are seeing that we aren't as weird as we were thought to be.
People actually thought we had horns, aren't allowed to dance, don't use electricity, etc.
If you believe Mormons are good people, why wouldn't you want to know what drives their values to be so high, instead of attacking what you THINK they believe?
God says you will know His people by their fruits.
The reason I personally think Kolob is irrelevant is because it doesn't affect my salvation.
I didn't say I think Mormons had *better* morals. Most people in general are morally good, for the most part. It has nothing to do with their religion.

And Kolob does relate to your salvation. It is part of one of your accepted holy books, written by the man you believe is next in line to Jesus Christ as a Prophet of God. So I would think that anything he wrote would be relevant. I know Kolob is embarrassing to talk about, but it's part of the baggage you have to defend.

So where is it? Can you find it on a star map? Is it a star or a planet? Are there Kolobians, or is it a lifeless world?

Will you some day get your own planet?

And why did God wait for the Civil Rights movement to inspire your Prophets to stop being racists? Isn't that a little...convenient?

Help me out here. I don't think you have horns, but I think you believe some really silly things that don't make any sense, particularly in 2013.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96345 Mar 17, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
True, all true. On a personal level I agree with you. I can't imagine a future where I would have faith.
I'm just saying it is possible for people, through well practiced cognitive dissonance, to walk that high-wire (not to use reason to find Christ, but to shut reason out). And if that's what they choose to do, and as long as they aren't trying to convert people to do the same (or using my money to do it), then I'm fine with it.
I just had a good conversation about this last night with an old friend.

I think that if you believe something then that's ok with me. I don't really care. Until your belief seeps into the public life that we all have to live. Then it becomes my concern.

I don't want my country or planet to be full of stupid people. If you think teaching Creationism as science, for example, is a good idea and you vote for people who tend to agree with you on that...then your beliefs are very important to me. It affects me, my kids, and my world. The dumber my neighbor the lower the overall quality of life will be.

I want every kid to grow up critical and sharp as a tack. I want my tax dollars to fund public education that teaches critical thinking at every step. I want my children to be able to tell the difference between what is genuine and what is fraudulent. I want them to be able to evaluate things and make rational, mindful decisions about those things based on evidence and good, solid moral instincts.

So I don't really care what the cabin-dwelling isolationist thinks about God. But I do care what the voting Fundamentalist thinks.

I don't like to be mean to people. And sometimes telling the truth about reality strikes people as mean. You have to know when to talk about it and when to let things go. I usually don't engage that much face to face, unless it is something egregious like an anti-vaccine nut or a Creationist. But online, on a forum...if you make your belief known then it is fair game! Gloves off, argumentation at the ready. Defend it or shut up.

Know what I mean?

lol
happy

Louisville, KY

#96346 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>I believe that the Spirit of God can be everywhere. Its presence can be felt by all. I believe that God can speak to man anytime He feels necessary. I believe He can call a prophet to be His mouthpiece in different locations at the same time. I also believe that prophets are not perfect, because they are human and fallible. But I do not think that everyone that professes to be a prophet, is actually a prophet.
Truth can be spoken by anyone, but the difference is, a prophet is the person set apart to lead God's people and speak His words to them.
We can water but the soil must accept lol. They r all In denial. It's usually because ppl don't want to b accountable for their sins. This post been going on for months. Denial is easier for them sadly
happy

Louisville, KY

#96347 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>I don't recall God being afraid they would reach Heaven. I remember God seeing that people had become so wicked and that they thought they could get to Heaven on their own, instead of how He designed. So He confounded their languages and sent them to different lands.
They also say God is mean and evil and kills...Like the tower they mentioned reaching Heaven. Like that could happen lol. They turn it into what they want... Heck even some "Christians" do that...but at least get story right :-)

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96348 Mar 17, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
But what if what they believe IS insultingly unintelligent? Shall I be respectful and courteous to the point of encouraging the southerner who covers his truck with stars 'n' bars and politely reinforce his claims that it is "heritage not hate?" Should one demurely abstain from conversation when he offers erroneous and confounded supportive arguments for his display?
Let me help you with this. You politely say "I disagree, here's why:"
Eplurbishwatever

London, KY

#96349 Mar 17, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for giving a concrete example of ignorant zealots being the mouthpiece for those with faith.
No problem.

Please just don't confuse those types with those of us with good faith (and sense enough) to realize, good faith is rendered to that which is deserving of it, as is karma to those reaping what they sow (be it good or be it not).
And that for some of us, having good faith in interesting scientific studies of things such as--

"Precambrian Times
(4567 to 542 mya)

Hadean Eon (4567 to 3800 mya)

Hadean Eon
(4567 to 3800 mya)

The moon was formed from the collision of the Earth with a planetoid.
- 4650 mya: Formation of chondrules in the Solar Nebula
- 4567 mya: Formation of the Solar System"

actually is quite representative of the Physics of "heavenly" aspects, that we still have MUCH to learn about, as telescopes have yet to be able to sustain any sort of viable "All knowing" answers with yet either, and, all of which really already kicked the "falling apes from the sky" theory, quite squarely, in it's many black holes of ignorance, to say the least.

Just easiest, most logical AND most truthful,(for some of us w/out issues with either science or peoples choices of religion) simply to say, there's much "we just don't know" about, but that for some of us, there IS room and comprehension of and for both, in the cranial cavities of many.
Eplurbishwatever

London, KY

#96350 Mar 17, 2013
happy wrote:
<quoted text>
They also say God is mean and evil and kills...Like the tower they mentioned reaching Heaven. Like that could happen lol. They turn it into what they want... Heck even some "Christians" do that...but at least get story right :-)
Only for those that might read such literally at a fifth grade level of miscomprehension, with out understanding enough to realize that such terms should perhaps be read figuratively, rather than just "see spot run" literally.
Or maybe perhaps some phrases ARE, just that simple, as "see spot run"....and only distorted via the ILLogical.

heavĀ·en (hvn)
n.
1. The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament.

"One persons opinion, is just that, and nothing else.".

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#96351 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me help you with this. You politely say "I disagree, here's why:"
Sir, while we do not agree, I would like to say that your conversation is not ...well like the other fundies posting here. You show intelligence and that you are decent. I respect YOU as a person. Please do not take the general statements that I make personally as they are not meant for people like you.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#96352 Mar 17, 2013
Skeptical Spectacles wrote:
<quoted text>
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this, I'd have... well, I'd have a lot of nickels.
I know this is a waste of time. But, I'll bite anyway.
From Apes? Not exactly how it works. Both modern man and modern apes evolved from the same ancestor at some point in our pasts.
From Monkeys? No, no one has ever said that (other than ignorant fundamentalists who live for straw man arguments)
And yes, we all know that you fundies find it hilarious. It's sad to me though. Your amusement is based on ignorance. I suppose it would be different if you understood Darwin's theory and disagreed with it. But that is typically not the case.
You can not expect people who do not read their own bible yet spout non sense to be able to read and understand scientific writing.(I will admitt that I have not read Darwin, but I do read Jung) They would rather say stupid things and than stick their fingers in their ears and say na na na na na

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#96353 Mar 17, 2013
happy wrote:
<quoted text>
We can water but the soil must accept lol. They r all In denial. It's usually because ppl don't want to b accountable for their sins. This post been going on for months. Denial is easier for them sadly
This comment is proof that the christian cult brain washes its sheep
what

Pikeville, KY

#96354 Mar 17, 2013
EplurbisGawduraduhmazz wrote:
<quoted text>
Might want to cleanse yourself of the mires of ignorance in your own hate filled eyes.
It is blaringly obvious, you are abjectly clueless to any REAL aspects of truth of reality.
Start READING for YOURSELF-
THE VATICAN LIBRARY.......
and every book they have is the ones they deemed ok and didnt burn. u are so clueless it is not funny anymore. and just cuz the new pope wants a poor church says nothing of the billions and billions they have other than they are gonna act poor now and quit helpin as much i guess. and i see u dodge the 10% thing cuz u were proven wrong on it so i forgive u, i knew u did have the knowledge for this conversation to start. i pointed that out to u in the beginning. but i do atleast try to show u some truths in hopes u will read your bible and see its not so loving and carin like they want u to believe.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96355 Mar 17, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>No offense, but that is a bunch LDS propaganda. Step outside the LDS circles and you will find that nobody takes the Book of Abraham seriously. Smith did not have any idea how to read ancient Egyptian. In fact nobody at the time had figured it out.

The LDS itself wanted to have the papyri translated to validate their Prophet. But it turns out he was wrong. It had nothing at all to do with Abraham.

And this argument that *some* of the papyri were related to Abraham, and kept separate...that's just batty. Do you not see that this is a post hoc rationalization?

Smith was an obvious fraud. I don't know how an otherwise intelligent person could not see that.

And we're just talking about one little element of the fraud. We could go into a slew of other problems with the BoM. Everything from "white and delightsome" skin color to where in the heck are the archeological remnants of the battles that Smith describes taking place *right here* the USA?

It's a very, very silly religion. Luckily nobody takes it too seriously so most Mormons are just regular people. But it has to take a lot of energy to carry around that much cognitive dissonance every day.
You should read a book called Rough Stone Rolling. Then we can talk about Joseph. Maybe it will help you to not believe everything you read on the Internet.

Nobody takes it seriously? Mormons were so prosperous in the 1800's that most everyone related to politics wanted them out of their area. Women and children were killed because of ignorance. Mormons eventually felt compelled to walk thousands of miles in below zero conditions to a desert wasteland where no one would bother them. They settled in the Salt Lake Valley because of how unattractive it was. That seems pretty serious to me.
A fast growing church of 13 million members worldwide with the same structure as the Church that Jesus set up, 12 apostles, quorums of seventy, teachers, deacons, and priests, etc. Claiming to be the restoration of Jesus' Gospel as the Bible foretells must happen before His return. Restoring temples, priesthood authority, revelation from God to man, sounds like a serious religion to me.

Learning more about this church may help people to see the similarities in what Jesus intended a church to be. A massive force, though humbly silent, that lends service to tragedies around the world. Non-paid ministry where the local Bishop has a job so your tithing money isn't going to his car payment, or cell phone bill. Marriage for time and all eternity instead of til death do you part. It's all very interesting to anyone that wants to know what the church actually is about. It took me 25 years to seek out for myself what they teach rather than what people told me they believe. Sorry it is "silly" to you. I hope you decide to find out on your own one day.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96356 Mar 17, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't say I think Mormons had *better* morals. Most people in general are morally good, for the most part. It has nothing to do with their religion.

And Kolob does relate to your salvation. It is part of one of your accepted holy books, written by the man you believe is next in line to Jesus Christ as a Prophet of God. So I would think that anything he wrote would be relevant. I know Kolob is embarrassing to talk about, but it's part of the baggage you have to defend.

So where is it? Can you find it on a star map? Is it a star or a planet? Are there Kolobians, or is it a lifeless world?

Will you some day get your own planet?

And why did God wait for the Civil Rights movement to inspire your Prophets to stop being racists? Isn't that a little...convenient?

Help me out here. I don't think you have horns, but I think you believe some really silly things that don't make any sense, particularly in 2013.
We don't know anything about Kolob other than it is a planet close to God. Sorry, I wish I knew more.

Will I be a god? Jesus said we are all gods. He reminded His disciples of that Psalm while on earth. It doesn't mean we are greater than God. We are subject to Him. But it makes sense if we are children of God and we are supposed to inherit all that He has, then we would grow up to be like Him in the eternities.

Most of the revelations that Joseph received (or any prophet) was after they thought about things themselves and asked in prayer.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#96357 Mar 17, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Sir, while we do not agree, I would like to say that your conversation is not ...well like the other fundies posting here. You show intelligence and that you are decent. I respect YOU as a person. Please do not take the general statements that I make personally as they are not meant for people like you.
Thanks. I will try not to, though they still seem to group me in your Christian stereotype.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#96358 Mar 17, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
You should read a book called Rough Stone Rolling. Then we can talk about Joseph. Maybe it will help you to not believe everything you read on the Internet.
Nobody takes it seriously? Mormons were so prosperous in the 1800's that most everyone related to politics wanted them out of their area. Women and children were killed because of ignorance. Mormons eventually felt compelled to walk thousands of miles in below zero conditions to a desert wasteland where no one would bother them. They settled in the Salt Lake Valley because of how unattractive it was. That seems pretty serious to me.
A fast growing church of 13 million members worldwide with the same structure as the Church that Jesus set up, 12 apostles, quorums of seventy, teachers, deacons, and priests, etc. Claiming to be the restoration of Jesus' Gospel as the Bible foretells must happen before His return. Restoring temples, priesthood authority, revelation from God to man, sounds like a serious religion to me.
Learning more about this church may help people to see the similarities in what Jesus intended a church to be. A massive force, though humbly silent, that lends service to tragedies around the world. Non-paid ministry where the local Bishop has a job so your tithing money isn't going to his car payment, or cell phone bill. Marriage for time and all eternity instead of til death do you part. It's all very interesting to anyone that wants to know what the church actually is about. It took me 25 years to seek out for myself what they teach rather than what people told me they believe. Sorry it is "silly" to you. I hope you decide to find out on your own one day.
I specifically said no one takes the Book of Abraham seriously, I didn't say no one takes Mormonism seriously.

I am aware of the hate and persecution early Mormons faced. People can be really stupid in groups when they do not understand other groups. And when your group claims that their leader was visited by an angel, translated a lost gospel, and are to inherit their own planets you gotta expect that people will look at you funny. Throw in magic underoos and things get real dicey.

I don't agree with persecution. I do agree with discourse. Free speech is the poison of blind faith.

I've studied the LDS, casually. I know about a bunch of your beliefs and I do find them silly. I also find Baptist, Catholic, and Jewish traditions silly as well.

To be totally honest I don't find your faith any more or less weird than I do the casual local Baptist. I do find it strange when people seek out and join religions. Usually people are trying to get out, not in. But sometimes it goes the other way.

There are some interesting things about LDS, though. I mean, the most obvious religion you can compare it to is Scientology. Both are recent, both founded by people of dubious character, and both have strange science fiction-based ideas. Smith was more of a Bible fan, so he tried to make his story sound Biblical. Hubbard was an actual science fiction writer so he made his stuff sound more "sciencey".

Both religions are very insular, discouraging criticism. Both require donations from their adherents. Not just asking for, but requiring. And both are very hard to leave. I've listened to or read a lot of interviews with former Mormons who say that getting your name removed from that 13 million roster is harder than getting a cable guy to give you a solid window time for when he's going to show up at your house.

Question: Does the 13 million include all the dead people you baptize into your faith?

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