Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#94803
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
That is to accomodate our Spanish brothers who speak Spanish. At the Kingdom Hall I attend we have 3 English 3 Spanish and 1 French but that has absolutely nothing to do with segregation! We also have a Russian Congregation in New Youk City etc.
You seem to be 'nit picking' just trying to find fault and do not know what you are talking about. The Pharisees did the same thing with Jesus and his followers.
Are you saying they are border jumpers and cannot speak English? You claimed no segregation period. You readily jump to false statements and then resort to name calling when your statements are found to be false and deflect from your own lack of integrity.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#94804
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
(cont) BLOOD
I want to call your attention to the fact that the HOLY SPIRIT was involved with making that decision. So taking blood is going against the holy spirit.
There is no forgiveness for sinning against the holy spirit. So did any converts confess having blood transfusions before becoming a JW?

I see that sinning against the holy spirit and then unsinning it is determined by the watchtower leaders.

1967:“Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source? another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.…

Now you can have the transplant, because the watchtower has un-sinned it.
TRUE BLUE

London, KY

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#94805
Feb 7, 2013
 
What's the legislature doing this for? They are $1 billion + short on the budget.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#94807
Feb 8, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no forgiveness for sinning against the holy spirit. So did any converts confess having blood transfusions before becoming a JW?
I see that sinning against the holy spirit and then unsinning it is determined by the watchtower leaders.
1967:“Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source? another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.…
Now you can have the transplant, because the watchtower has un-sinned it.
And this happens time and time again in these more fringe religions.

In the LDS (Mormon) it wasn't until 1978 that they allowed black people to have the priesthood. Now, the way I understand Mormon, every man who has a wife essentially has the priesthood. He is the high priest of his little family. And that is important because it determines which level of heaven he can get to later.(I'm not sure how it affects the women...but they're just women, right?)

The prohibition against blacks was laid down by the church Prophets. So that meant it came from God himself. Why then, in 1978 on the heels of the Civil Rights Movement, did God suddenly say "Oh, never mind that whole racial discrimination thing."

Same with JW. As the social climate changes and the mix of leadership in the church changes you will see them soften some of their doctrines. Now that they have to face the fact that they were utterly wrong about 1914 and the whole 144,000 stuff you'll see them softening their views on those ideas, making them seem less important. I suspect that if we were to live to see 100 more years pass the JW would not even be talking about that stuff anymore.

Just like Mormons do not talk about the Book of Abraham or the fact that having dark skin is a sign of a sinner, according to the Book of Mormon. It becomes more and more embarrassing. And if you grow up in it you have to decide whether to be embarrassed, get out, or change the nature of your religion.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

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#94808
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
I can appreciate your logical reasoning from a human standpoint. But the creator knows what is best for us. You want to think that is a probitition from eating or drinking blood. I'll give you a senero that will help to clear your understanding. Lets say you were in a terrable auto accident, the Dr. says you need blood, you agree for him to give you whole blood. The nurse comes in with several pint glasses of blood and tells you to drink it all. Yuck you would never do that. Now explain the difference! At least if you drink it, it passes through your digestive system and cleans it somewhat of some impurities. But if you shoot it straight into your viens there all kinds of risks including AIDS Hepititus C any number of STDs Jaundice etc. Really blood is bad medicine no matter what a Dr. might say. And too there are blood subtitutes like saline solution that does pretty much the same thing as a blood transfusion without the risks.
Holy crap, dude. This is nuts. Seriously, dangerously nuts.

First off, you lose with the statement that the "Creator" knows best.

There is a fundamental and HUGE difference between injection and consuming any substance. One enters your stomach through the throat, the other goes through the skin and into the bloodstream directly. If I put food in your stomach it gets digested...broken down into usable and unusable components then dealt with correctly, if everything goes right. If I put a cheeseburger into your blood stream it would surely kill you. It would be like putting sand in a gas tank.

Now, there are risks to infusions. There are risks to eating a peanut butter sandwich. When I was about 9 my cousin got choked eating a pb sandwich. My aunt had to Heimlich him.

Should we avoid eating pb sandwiches?

Medical procedures all carry risk. You have to do the cost-benefit analysis and decide if they are worth it. Clearly, absolutely UN-controversially (outside of certain fringe belief systems) blood transfusions are worth the risk in cases where blood is needed.

Someone else mentioned that organ transplants are now ok with the JW. Is that true? Because I guarantee you will not get an organ transplant without getting some blood. And I'm not just talking about your own banked blood. There's almost certainly going to be some blood from the other person in that organ, even if it is trace amounts.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

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#94809
Feb 8, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians.
Christians. For no good reason.
The same one that enslaved people in the first place - Christians.
Kill fruit trees that are out of season. Pay taxes. Stop throwing rocks at people.
Any other questions?
Looks to me like the Missionaries were trying to HELP the natives..
It was the Military (no religious background) that wanted them moved!
Description: Statement by Elizur Butler, Christian missionary living in the Cherokee Nation, extracted from a letter dated June 20, 1831. Butler describes a meeting that took place between himself and Colonel Sanford at Camp Gilmer. Colonel Sanford voices his disapproval of missionaries and threatens to imprison Butler again or forcibly remove him and his family if he does not move. Butler states that Samuel Worcester, another missionary to the Cherokee, and himself are intent on staying in the Nation until they are removed by force.
.....
Notice the words "Catholic Church"... NOT True Christians, but a bastard creation of Constintine!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn2.h...

Prior to the 9th century CE: There was a widespread popular belief that evil Witches existed. They were seen as evil persons, primarily women, who devoted their lives to harming and killing others through black magic and evil sorcery. The Catholic church at the time officially taught that such Witches did not exist. It was a heresy to say that they were real. "For example, the 5th century Synod of St. Patrick ruled that 'A Christian who believes that there is a vampire in the world, that is to say, a witch, is to be anathematized; whoever lays that reputation upon a living being shall not be received into the Church until he revokes with his own voice the crime that he has committed.' A capitulary from Saxony (775-790 CE) blamed these stereotypes on pagan belief systems:'If anyone, deceived by the Devil, believes after the manner of the Pagans that any man or woman is a witch and eats men, and if on this account he burns [the alleged witch]... he shall be punished by capital sentence." 1
..........
Any Questions???
Yes!
What are you afraid of???
God is real... No matter what you believe!
Repent, turn towards Chist... You will be glad you did!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

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#94811
Feb 8, 2013
 

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You all have a Great day!

:-)
bible says

Elkhorn City, KY

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#94813
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks to me like the Missionaries were trying to HELP the natives..
It was the Military (no religious background) that wanted them moved!
Description: Statement by Elizur Butler, Christian missionary living in the Cherokee Nation, extracted from a letter dated June 20, 1831. Butler describes a meeting that took place between himself and Colonel Sanford at Camp Gilmer. Colonel Sanford voices his disapproval of missionaries and threatens to imprison Butler again or forcibly remove him and his family if he does not move. Butler states that Samuel Worcester, another missionary to the Cherokee, and himself are intent on staying in the Nation until they are removed by force.
.....
Notice the words "Catholic Church"... NOT True Christians, but a bastard creation of Constintine!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn2.h...
Prior to the 9th century CE: There was a widespread popular belief that evil Witches existed. They were seen as evil persons, primarily women, who devoted their lives to harming and killing others through black magic and evil sorcery. The Catholic church at the time officially taught that such Witches did not exist. It was a heresy to say that they were real. "For example, the 5th century Synod of St. Patrick ruled that 'A Christian who believes that there is a vampire in the world, that is to say, a witch, is to be anathematized; whoever lays that reputation upon a living being shall not be received into the Church until he revokes with his own voice the crime that he has committed.' A capitulary from Saxony (775-790 CE) blamed these stereotypes on pagan belief systems:'If anyone, deceived by the Devil, believes after the manner of the Pagans that any man or woman is a witch and eats men, and if on this account he burns [the alleged witch]... he shall be punished by capital sentence." 1
..........
Any Questions???
Yes!
What are you afraid of???
God is real... No matter what you believe!
Repent, turn towards Chist... You will be glad you did!
since u point out the catholics it is good to know that they control all the original scriptures and things and guess who isnt aloowed to see them...no one but the higher priests of the vatican. they tell all what the bible says in one way or the other so i beg to say that every christian is somewhat a catholic whether they like the idea or not. they control the source so they control what u or anyone else thinks is actually wrote in them. who is to say its not even translated and they made the bible say exactly what they wanted it to say. maybe thats why some very important people from the bible had their scriptures left out when the final cut was released. for example the book of enoch, the book of mary (thought to be magdalene and not his mother), and the life of adam and eve that tells eves side of it all. so have u ever thoguht why u only get parts of it when other ppl important to jesus wrote scripture but teirs was left out. what are they hiding?
so true

Clarkson, KY

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#94814
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Let me not pray to be sheltered from dangers,
But to be fearless in facing them.
Let me not beg for the stilling of my pain,
But for the heart to conquer it.
Let me not look for allies in life's battlefield,
But to my own strength.
Let me not crave in anxious fear to be saved,
But hope for the patience to win my freedom.
Grant me that I may not be a coward,
feeling your mercy in my success alone,
But let me find the grasp of your hand in my failure.

Good Day to you all , no matter where you are , or what you have faith in ...

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#94816
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
In the Bible if animal blood was forbidden how much more would that apply to Human Blood?
What does the word 'abstain' mean?
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
In the Bible if animal blood was forbidden how much more would that apply to Human Blood?
What does the word 'abstain' mean?
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

IN CONTEXT - abstain from (don't eat/drink) sacrificial food, abstain from (don't eat/drink) blood, abstain from (don't eat) meat of strangled animals (as food)...
Otherwise, it would mean don't have any blood in your body and don't eat fish - as it has been "strangled" in air.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#94817
Feb 8, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying they are border jumpers and cannot speak English? You claimed no segregation period. You readily jump to false statements and then resort to name calling when your statements are found to be false and deflect from your own lack of integrity.
To be fair, the Hispanic community in his town is huge (41%) and unlike southern and agricultural areas of CA, it is mostly Puerto Rican and Cuban descendants - not border jumpers. That any church has Spanish speaking services is a non issue. There are also growing numbers of Haitians, which addresses the french (actually Kreole) speaking services.

“There's more than one religion”

Since: Aug 11

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#94818
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
I can appreciate your logical reasoning from a human standpoint. But the creator knows what is best for us. You want to think that is a probitition from eating or drinking blood. I'll give you a senero that will help to clear your understanding. Lets say you were in a terrable auto accident, the Dr. says you need blood, you agree for him to give you whole blood. The nurse comes in with several pint glasses of blood and tells you to drink it all. Yuck you would never do that. Now explain the difference! At least if you drink it, it passes through your digestive system and cleans it somewhat of some impurities. But if you shoot it straight into your viens there all kinds of risks including AIDS Hepititus C any number of STDs Jaundice etc. Really blood is bad medicine no matter what a Dr. might say. And too there are blood subtitutes like saline solution that does pretty much the same thing as a blood transfusion without the risks.
Holy crap - literally. You don't seem to understand biology and resort to scare tactics unfounded in reality to justify your belief system. Please tell me I have misinterpreted your intent because:

1. Saline CANNOT substitute for blood. Red blood cells are required to carry oxygen in the blood. Without red blood cells delivering oxygen, your tissues die of asphyxiation. Saline would do NOTHING but dilute your blood further. There is no substitute for blood, particularly red blood cells and their hemoglobin. If you think that is the case, go ahead and have two-three pints of blood removed and have them infuse you two to three pints of saline. But get ready for a coma and seizures as your blood gets even further diluted in volume. Saline is just water with the proper level of salts - none of which carry protein or required oxygen.

2. Blood products are THOROUGHLY screened for disease. Back in the past, there were errors due to lack of technology to properly screen. There is no risk if the blood is properly screened and typed.

3. Drinking of blood would do nothing but get proteins into the system. Further it would not get them into the system in the required manner due to denaturation and degradation of the required proteins and cellular components. Method of delivery has a DEFINITE impact upon whether it is beneficial or not.

4. Jesus himself had his apostles "drink his blood" and "eat his flesh". While symbolically (or not so symbolically depending on the Christian sect you belong to), this would seem to indicate that he didn't see a problem with it. Why order people to symbolically do things that your religious beliefs explicitly prohibit? Seems to be a bit of an inconsistency.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#94819
Feb 8, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, the Hispanic community in his town is huge (41%) and unlike southern and agricultural areas of CA, it is mostly Puerto Rican and Cuban descendants - not border jumpers. That any church has Spanish speaking services is a non issue. There are also growing numbers of Haitians, which addresses the french (actually Kreole) speaking services.


Point well taken.

Not really a issue, but wanted to see how they would respond to that question on segregation of kingdom halls. I see the point of it, yet was surprised that they would take offense and resort to name calling rather than just explain it in a civil manner.

I can see how the persecution complex comes into play even when some simple explanations would do.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#94821
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Known Fact wrote:
See Acts 15:28,29
What I find telling about the Christians and Acts 15 is that they were Hell bent on converting the Gentiles and first told them that they all needed to be circumcised - that didn't go over very well, as you might imagine.
They talked it over and JAMES decided to rescind the Laws of Moses for the Gentiles and just keep the easy stuff on the rationale that "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God."
And THAT, in a NUTSHELL is why they said it came from the "Holy Spirit" - to authorize changes amenable to the membership campaign.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#94822
Feb 8, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
Point well taken.
Not really a issue, but wanted to see how they would respond to that question on segregation of kingdom halls. I see the point of it, yet was surprised that they would take offense and resort to name calling rather than just explain it in a civil manner.
I can see how the persecution complex comes into play even when some simple explanations would do.
Don't get me wrong - it SHOULD be a touchy subject for Christians, but the last thing on their minds is to look in a mirror. There are masses of them who turn a blind eye to bigotry in one form or another. Look at the mega churches across the nation that are primarily white or black. The Southern Baptists were FORMED expressly in support of slavery and didn't apologize for it until the 1990's. By and large, most will rail against this or that group and do it all in the name of "God's love."

Atheists aren't ALLOWED to point out the hundreds of lines of scriptural wisdom that Christians throw at others, and Atheists aren't allowed to place scripture (back) in context if it tousles their social, scientific and religious predilections.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#94823
Feb 8, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't get me wrong - it SHOULD be a touchy subject for Christians, but the last thing on their minds is to look in a mirror. There are masses of them who turn a blind eye to bigotry in one form or another. Look at the mega churches across the nation that are primarily white or black. The Southern Baptists were FORMED expressly in support of slavery and didn't apologize for it until the 1990's. By and large, most will rail against this or that group and do it all in the name of "God's love."
Atheists aren't ALLOWED to point out the hundreds of lines of scriptural wisdom that Christians throw at others, and Atheists aren't allowed to place scripture (back) in context if it tousles their social, scientific and religious predilections.
I have talk to some JW about this subject before even asking that here on Topix. The JW said that there is segregation of blacks in the kindgom halls southern states because of race issues, yet blame the racism that exists in their state and not any belief of superiority by the JW themselves. Yes it would be an issue if based on race I agree and understood your previous comments about the segregation for convenience because of language barriers.

I simply think that JW do not even know their own religious history or care to really research it and would be a sin to question it, which could cause their expulsion from the sect.

Atheists and agnostics provide a excuse to give JW's an uneasy alliance with the Christendom that they oppose. You can see how they compliment each other especially on claims they agree with on Topix that opposes scientific and historical evidence.

Unlike atheist who require testing ,evidence both historical and material, the religious are not held to the same strict standards that may be required by a scientist or others who would require more evidence of claims made.

It will be interesting to see in 5 or 10 years how time and discovery will change things.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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Feb 8, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
I have talk to some JW about this subject before even asking that here on Topix. The JW said that there is segregation of blacks in the kindgom halls southern states because of race issues, yet blame the racism that exists in their state and not any belief of superiority by the JW themselves. Yes it would be an issue if based on race I agree and understood your previous comments about the segregation for convenience because of language barriers.
I simply think that JW do not even know their own religious history or care to really research it and would be a sin to question it, which could cause their expulsion from the sect.
Atheists and agnostics provide a excuse to give JW's an uneasy alliance with the Christendom that they oppose. You can see how they compliment each other especially on claims they agree with on Topix that opposes scientific and historical evidence.
Unlike atheist who require testing ,evidence both historical and material, the religious are not held to the same strict standards that may be required by a scientist or others who would require more evidence of claims made.
It will be interesting to see in 5 or 10 years how time and discovery will change things.
2 years of posting, 20 years of internet, 200 years as a nation, 2,000 years of Christianity, 20,000 years to the first dawnings of civilization - and people will be people.

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

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Feb 8, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't get me wrong - it SHOULD be a touchy subject for Christians, but the last thing on their minds is to look in a mirror. There are masses of them who turn a blind eye to bigotry in one form or another. Look at the mega churches across the nation that are primarily white or black. The Southern Baptists were FORMED expressly in support of slavery and didn't apologize for it until the 1990's. By and large, most will rail against this or that group and do it all in the name of "God's love."
Atheists aren't ALLOWED to point out the hundreds of lines of scriptural wisdom that Christians throw at others, and Atheists aren't allowed to place scripture (back) in context if it tousles their social, scientific and religious predilections.
The bible is an inconvenience to the christian cult
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

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#94826
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Holy crap, dude. This is nuts. Seriously, dangerously nuts.
First off, you lose with the statement that the "Creator" knows best.
There is a fundamental and HUGE difference between injection and consuming any substance. One enters your stomach through the throat, the other goes through the skin and into the bloodstream directly. If I put food in your stomach it gets digested...broken down into usable and unusable components then dealt with correctly, if everything goes right. If I put a cheeseburger into your blood stream it would surely kill you. It would be like putting sand in a gas tank.
Now, there are risks to infusions. There are risks to eating a peanut butter sandwich. When I was about 9 my cousin got choked eating a pb sandwich. My aunt had to Heimlich him.
Should we avoid eating pb sandwiches?
Medical procedures all carry risk. You have to do the cost-benefit analysis and decide if they are worth it. Clearly, absolutely UN-controversially (outside of certain fringe belief systems) blood transfusions are worth the risk in cases where blood is needed.
Someone else mentioned that organ transplants are now ok with the JW. Is that true? Because I guarantee you will not get an organ transplant without getting some blood. And I'm not just talking about your own banked blood. There's almost certainly going to be some blood from the other person in that organ, even if it is trace amounts.
You are just so intellegent you know more than the creator! I would say you are about ready to head up your own religion.
The big question you need to ask is: "Does My Religion Please God?"
Known Fact

Cocoa Beach, FL

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#94828
Feb 8, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>
I have talk to some JW about this subject before even asking that here on Topix. The JW said that there is segregation of blacks in the kindgom halls southern states because of race issues, yet blame the racism that exists in their state and not any belief of superiority by the JW themselves. Yes it would be an issue if based on race I agree and understood your previous comments about the segregation for convenience because of language barriers.
I simply think that JW do not even know their own religious history or care to really research it and would be a sin to question it, which could cause their expulsion from the sect.
Atheists and agnostics provide a excuse to give JW's an uneasy alliance with the Christendom that they oppose. You can see how they compliment each other especially on claims they agree with on Topix that opposes scientific and historical evidence.
Unlike atheist who require testing ,evidence both historical and material, the religious are not held to the same strict standards that may be required by a scientist or others who would require more evidence of claims made.
It will be interesting to see in 5 or 10 years how time and discovery will change things.
The ENGLISH Congregation I attend we have Hillbillys (Me+ some from Kentucky)) Jamacians, Africans, Hatians
several American Blacks, a lot of Pureto-Ricans, You name it we've got it with no class,race or nationality differences.
I know that might be hard for you to believe but it is pretty much the same all over the world!

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