Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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so true

Clarkson, KY

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#92181
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Love them both , you all know how I am with quotes. Great Day to all...

May you, and all those you love, be so blessed and fortunate in the days and years to come and may you be surrounded by people who will help you get untangled from the things that are binding you.

And, may you always know the joy of giving and receiving gratitude.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#92182
Dec 4, 2012
 

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RoachClip wrote:
The beatles were a pretty good band. John Lennon once said they had become bigger than jesus. Lennon was an atheist, he believed in love and peace and niceness between mankind. The Catholic churched turned on Lennon and the beatles..... Eight years after his death the Vatican, "forgave" John Lennon. This was not a christian act, it was done as an insult to further push jesus as the loving forgiving salvation of mankind,, not peace and love. I don't think John asked for their forgiveness.
Puff, puff, pass.
Lennon had made that statement in an interview in Great Britain and nobody paid much attention. Several weeks later it was taken out of context in an article published in the US and it immediately blew up.
Funny how the Bible belt talks itself hoarse about freedom of religion and the first amendment. It's the Land of the Free only until somebody states their opinion. Just ask the Dixie Chicks.
defender

London, KY

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#92183
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>Please provide me with One Historic Document from the time of Jesus that mentions him... A document written 50 years after he was said to have lived is not a historic document that verifies he did... What I can say is that on walls I can show you graffiti on where to find a brothel, writing telling us what grains were harvested, who was in power, what sports guys were hits with the crowds.... These right in the very towns Jesus was said to hang out... But with a guy turning wine into water, walking on water, healing the blind and all the other things we are told he did and No One wrote "Jesus was here" on a wall, no one fired a clay pot with his deeds on it... During his Life Time No one made a mention of him or his deeds... It's only in writings dating years after his death we find any writing that even mention him... Now if you have a link to a Document written about his that can be verified to date to his lifetime I would love to see it... And so would every religious scholar on earth...
The only people written about in real time were kings by their historians... You seem to think they had Facebook back then.... Yes lots of historians Roman, Greek and Jewish wrote of Jesus but it really doesn't matter anyway... The message no matter how hard it's been fought against has prevailed... Not bad for a poor Jewish carpenter huh?

“Old Time Recipe”

Since: Nov 12

Cannon, KY

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#92184
Dec 4, 2012
 

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RoachClip wrote:
The beatles were a pretty good band. John Lennon once said they had become bigger than jesus. Lennon was an atheist, he believed in love and peace and niceness between mankind. The Catholic churched turned on Lennon and the beatles..... Eight years after his death the Vatican, "forgave" John Lennon. This was not a christian act, it was done as an insult to further push jesus as the loving forgiving salvation of mankind,, not peace and love. I don't think John asked for their forgiveness.
Puff, puff, pass.
I have the entire Remastered Beatles collection for sale...$50..like new!

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

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#92185
Dec 4, 2012
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
"No way of thinking or doing, however ancient, can be trusted without proof." - Henry David Thoreau
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - JOHN F. KENNEDY
"The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend." - Henri Bergson
"The important thing is not to stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
Very nice. Here are two of my favorites...

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin
(This one seems particularly apt for religious folks since their "gods" reflect themselves.)

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

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#92186
Dec 4, 2012
 

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defender wrote:
<quoted text>
The only people written about in real time were kings by their historians... You seem to think they had Facebook back then.... Yes lots of historians Roman, Greek and Jewish wrote of Jesus but it really doesn't matter anyway... The message no matter how hard it's been fought against has prevailed... Not bad for a poor Jewish carpenter huh?
If some guy was indeed going around walking on water, parting the Red Sea, and raising people from the dead, you would think that might get a mention in the local historians' tomes, wouldn't you?

It didn't happen. Those are purely the myths of uneducated, superstitious people.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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#92187
Dec 4, 2012
 

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defender wrote:
<quoted text>
The only people written about in real time were kings by their historians... You seem to think they had Facebook back then.... Yes lots of historians Roman, Greek and Jewish wrote of Jesus but it really doesn't matter anyway... The message no matter how hard it's been fought against has prevailed... Not bad for a poor Jewish carpenter huh?
Go to Israel... Walk to any of the dozens of archaeological digs.. In Every Site you will find paintings, graffiti, pottery, Mosaics and assorted objects with pictures of everyday events, grain counts, names, places, where to get a beer, where to get laid, what to do where to go and whose doing who... All dating to the years around the birth said to be Jesus until after the time he is said to have died... There are Many writings from the time of Christ that speak of Gladiatorial games, Roman soldiers, and many Individual Citizens... Yet Not One note, not one mention, not a painting, not a scribble on a wall... Until Years after his life by a guy that was attempting to gain power within a new religious movement...

I have no doubt that a guy that today is called Jesus went around preaching some... But if the later stories that hyped him and added ever increasing Claims of greater Super Powers were in the slightest True there would be people running around making pots, writing on walls, making frescoes, tiling mosaics and being written of at least as much as the local gladiators and hookers....
galeru

London, KY

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#92188
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide me with One Historic Document from the time of Jesus that mentions him... A document written 50 years after he was said to have lived is not a historic document that verifies he did... What I can say is that on walls I can show you graffiti on where to find a brothel, writing telling us what grains were harvested, who was in power, what sports guys were hits with the crowds.... These right in the very towns Jesus was said to hang out... But with a guy turning wine into water, walking on water, healing the blind and all the other things we are told he did and No One wrote "Jesus was here" on a wall, no one fired a clay pot with his deeds on it... During his Life Time No one made a mention of him or his deeds... It's only in writings dating years after his death we find any writing that even mention him... Now if you have a link to a Document written about his that can be verified to date to his lifetime I would love to see it... And so would every religious scholar on earth...
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/In...

http://www.halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_4...
chrysophylax

London, KY

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#92189
Dec 4, 2012
 
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>No, there is not one document stating that. There are writings that mention real places, just like Lee Childs Jack Reacher novels do.
In fact the fictional character jesus was not written about until 300 years past the time he was supposed to live.
I can wrrite a story right now about Faries and mention NY, CA. FL
notice in the tractates that stoning is mention; which isn't allowed under roman custom. so they hung the man, who possibly was trained in samadhi

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/In...

http://www.halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_4...

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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#92190
Dec 4, 2012
 
galeru wrote:
"Tyndale House (where I work) recently acquired one of the 400 facsimiles of the Munich Talmud in a hotly contested New York auction. This is the earliest full manuscript Talmud, penned in approximately 1342. Very few manuscripts of the Talmud survived the ravages of time and persecutions, and they are particularly important because they
contain material censored out of the printed editions, most of which concerned Jesus."

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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#92191
Dec 4, 2012
 

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chrysophylax wrote:
<quoted text>
notice in the tractates that stoning is mention; which isn't allowed under roman custom. so they hung the man, who possibly was trained in samadhi
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/In...
http://www.halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_4...
Notice that it says it was pinned 1200 years after the events mentioned?..... Now do you happen to have a link to the Original Writings that were written during the events claimed? Those are what would be Historical Documents during the time frame in question....

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

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#92192
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chrysophylax wrote:
<quoted text>
notice in the tractates that stoning is mention; which isn't allowed under roman custom. so they hung the man, who possibly was trained in samadhi
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/In...
http://www.halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_4...
McKinsey is a published biblical scholar whose works are consistantly of high quality.

By Dennis McKinsey

The first comment worthy of note is found in Sanhedrin 43a of the Talmud, which states,

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (The Munich manuscript adds the Nasarean) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried,'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.... Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, Neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him (Deut. 13:9)? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government (or royalty, i.e., influential). Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah.

Although difficult to imagine, this anemic passage is a reference to Jesus, according to some commentators. Reliance upon passages as weak as this can't help but dissipate respect for apologetic scholarship. Obvious inadequacies are:

(1) It says Yeshu, not Jesus.

(2) Even if Yeshu and Jesus were identical words, it was not an unusual name. On the contrary, it appears rather frequently in ancient Jewish literature. Josephus records the following out of 28 high priests in the 107 years from Herod to the destruction of Jerusalem: Jesus, son of Phabet; Jesus, son of Damneus; Jesus, son of Gamaliel; Jesus, son of Sapphias; Jesus son of Thebuthus.

(3) Jesus was crucified, not hanged.
(4) Jesus was not stoned, at least not according to the biblical record.

(5) The New Testament says nothing about a herald going forth for forty days before the execution occurred.
(6) Jesus had no connection with the government. At least nothing within the Gospels would lead one to believe that he lived among royalty or the influential class.

(7) Nowhere in the New Testament was Jesus charged with sorcery or leading Israel astray. The New Testament record tells of three accusations against Jesus:(a) blasphemy,(b) claiming to be the Son of God, and (c) assuming the role of King of the Jews. But he was never charged with practicing sorcery nor of leading Israel astray. Any attempt to apply this part of the Talmud to Jesus is doomed to failure.

http://www.skeptically.org/bible/id4.html
knucker

London, KY

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#92193
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
"Tyndale House (where I work) recently acquired one of the 400 facsimiles of the Munich Talmud in a hotly contested New York auction. This is the earliest full manuscript Talmud, penned in approximately 1342. Very few manuscripts of the Talmud survived the ravages of time and persecutions, and they are particularly important because they
contain material censored out of the printed editions, most of which concerned Jesus."
you're posting what was already contained in the original; so what?

you now have a problem with jewish resources confirming some christian history?
smok wawelski

London, KY

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#92194
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice that it says it was pinned 1200 years after the events mentioned?..... Now do you happen to have a link to the Original Writings that were written during the events claimed? Those are what would be Historical Documents during the time frame in question....
the talmud was transmitted orally for centuries.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14...

The history of the origin of the Talmud is the same as that of the Mishnah—a tradition, transmitted orally for centuries, was finally cast into definite literary form, although from the moment in which the Talmud became the chief subject of study in the academies it had a double existence, and was accordingly, in its final stage, redacted in two different forms.
tiamat

London, KY

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#92195
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
McKinsey is a published biblical scholar whose works are consistantly of high quality.
By Dennis McKinsey
The first comment worthy of note is found in Sanhedrin 43a of the Talmud, which states,
On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (The Munich manuscript adds the Nasarean) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried,'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.... Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, Neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him (Deut. 13:9)? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government (or royalty, i.e., influential). Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah.
Although difficult to imagine, this anemic passage is a reference to Jesus, according to some commentators. Reliance upon passages as weak as this can't help but dissipate respect for apologetic scholarship. Obvious inadequacies are:
(1) It says Yeshu, not Jesus.
(2) Even if Yeshu and Jesus were identical words, it was not an unusual name. On the contrary, it appears rather frequently in ancient Jewish literature. Josephus records the following out of 28 high priests in the 107 years from Herod to the destruction of Jerusalem: Jesus, son of Phabet; Jesus, son of Damneus; Jesus, son of Gamaliel; Jesus, son of Sapphias; Jesus son of Thebuthus.
(3) Jesus was crucified, not hanged.
(4) Jesus was not stoned, at least not according to the biblical record.
(5) The New Testament says nothing about a herald going forth for forty days before the execution occurred.
(6) Jesus had no connection with the government. At least nothing within the Gospels would lead one to believe that he lived among royalty or the influential class.
(7) Nowhere in the New Testament was Jesus charged with sorcery or leading Israel astray. The New Testament record tells of three accusations against Jesus:(a) blasphemy,(b) claiming to be the Son of God, and (c) assuming the role of King of the Jews. But he was never charged with practicing sorcery nor of leading Israel astray. Any attempt to apply this part of the Talmud to Jesus is doomed to failure.
http://www.skeptically.org/bible/id4.html
yeshua is the same as jesus. jesus is the anglicized version of yeshua

furthermore all roman crucifixions were hangings, and nailing was not always incorporated into the crucifixion.

http://www.theopedia.com/Crucifixion

the hanging would have sufficed given the requirement of a rebellious son as mentioned in

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

which is a reminder of deut 21

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

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smok wawelski wrote:
<quoted text>the talmud was transmitted orally for centuries.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14...
The history of the origin of the Talmud is the same as that of the Mishnah—a tradition, transmitted orally for centuries, was finally cast into definite literary form, although from the moment in which the Talmud became the chief subject of study in the academies it had a double existence, and was accordingly, in its final stage, redacted in two different forms.
Let me make my statement again for the hard of understanding....

"Please provide me with One Historic Document from the time of Jesus that mentions him... "

I know it's tough, I know it's annoying ... But A Oral Tradition, A 1300 year later writing, And 50 year later writing... do not "One Historic Document from the time of Jesus" make.... If you would like I can provide you links to graffiti on whose the best gladiator or where to get laid... and all the other things I mentioned but then again I'm not making the claim that a guy can walk on water and turn water to wine while raising the dead, curing the blind and in general being the Super Hero of the time...

There was a Oral Tradition that lasted 1000's (Longer than Christianity) of years that a bunch of giant greek Gods sat on a mountain and tossed lighting bolts on mere mortals.... I don't think that happened either....
jipjika m

London, KY

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#92198
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
McKinsey is a published biblical scholar whose works are consistantly of high quality.
By Dennis McKinsey
The first comment worthy of note is found in Sanhedrin 43a of the Talmud, which states,
On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (The Munich manuscript adds the Nasarean) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried,'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.... Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, Neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him (Deut. 13:9)? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government (or royalty, i.e., influential). Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah.
Although difficult to imagine, this anemic passage is a reference to Jesus, according to some commentators. Reliance upon passages as weak as this can't help but dissipate respect for apologetic scholarship. Obvious inadequacies are:
(1) It says Yeshu, not Jesus.
(2) Even if Yeshu and Jesus were identical words, it was not an unusual name. On the contrary, it appears rather frequently in ancient Jewish literature. Josephus records the following out of 28 high priests in the 107 years from Herod to the destruction of Jerusalem: Jesus, son of Phabet; Jesus, son of Damneus; Jesus, son of Gamaliel; Jesus, son of Sapphias; Jesus son of Thebuthus.
(3) Jesus was crucified, not hanged.
(4) Jesus was not stoned, at least not according to the biblical record.
(5) The New Testament says nothing about a herald going forth for forty days before the execution occurred.
(6) Jesus had no connection with the government. At least nothing within the Gospels would lead one to believe that he lived among royalty or the influential class.
(7) Nowhere in the New Testament was Jesus charged with sorcery or leading Israel astray. The New Testament record tells of three accusations against Jesus:(a) blasphemy,(b) claiming to be the Son of God, and (c) assuming the role of King of the Jews. But he was never charged with practicing sorcery nor of leading Israel astray. Any attempt to apply this part of the Talmud to Jesus is doomed to failure.
http://www.skeptically.org/bible/id4.html
addressing number 7

a. claiming to be the son of god was blasphemy, or christ = christened; which meant he was the king because in ancient times the king was annointed on the forehead with oil. this signified the king. in ecclesiastes the term is signified by the use of preacher capitalized.

b. using the Name of names was idolatry because he was claiming to be god

c. already shown in a & b

the sorcery alone could be attributed to raising the dead and/or consorting with spirits.
unktehi

London, KY

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#92199
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide me with One Historic Document from the time of Jesus that mentions him... A document written 50 years after he was said to have lived is not a historic document that verifies he did... What I can say is that on walls I can show you graffiti on where to find a brothel, writing telling us what grains were harvested, who was in power, what sports guys were hits with the crowds.... These right in the very towns Jesus was said to hang out... But with a guy turning wine into water, walking on water, healing the blind and all the other things we are told he did and No One wrote "Jesus was here" on a wall, no one fired a clay pot with his deeds on it... During his Life Time No one made a mention of him or his deeds... It's only in writings dating years after his death we find any writing that even mention him... Now if you have a link to a Document written about his that can be verified to date to his lifetime I would love to see it... And so would every religious scholar on earth...
that isn't unusual given Buddha really didn't write down his own teachings nor did anyone until long after his demise.

his(isha's) own teachings would have been oral as the bible implies.
lagarfljotsormur inn

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#92200
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me make my statement again for the hard of understanding....
"Please provide me with One Historic Document from the time of Jesus that mentions him... "
I know it's tough, I know it's annoying ... But A Oral Tradition, A 1300 year later writing, And 50 year later writing... do not "One Historic Document from the time of Jesus" make.... If you would like I can provide you links to graffiti on whose the best gladiator or where to get laid... and all the other things I mentioned but then again I'm not making the claim that a guy can walk on water and turn water to wine while raising the dead, curing the blind and in general being the Super Hero of the time...
There was a Oral Tradition that lasted 1000's (Longer than Christianity) of years that a bunch of giant greek Gods sat on a mountain and tossed lighting bolts on mere mortals.... I don't think that happened either....
you're attempting to imply that one culture would exactly follow another cultures customs and practices. they wouldn't; also it is well known that in the mystery religions of the west, there is little known information. again oral tradition was the only means of passing on such wisdom. it wasn't for the profane.

so knowing who was who wasn't important in such societies

Since: Feb 12

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Dec 4, 2012
 

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jipjika m wrote:
<quoted text>addressing number 7
a. claiming to be the son of god was blasphemy, or christ = christened; which meant he was the king because in ancient times the king was annointed on the forehead with oil. this signified the king. in ecclesiastes the term is signified by the use of preacher capitalized.
b. using the Name of names was idolatry because he was claiming to be god
c. already shown in a & b
the sorcery alone could be attributed to raising the dead and/or consorting with spirits.
So, you're still not getting the point, scholars disagree with your claims and the dating is not even close as the coptic greek.

Translation of the Bible From Greek into Coptic (Circa 100 CE – 250 CE)

The copitics did not believe in a trinity but that Jesus was a god or son of god. So do you now believe the trinity doctine is false because the coptic greek outdates your evidence? If so then you need to buy the Jehovah Witness bible.

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