Judge overturns California's ban on s...

Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

There are 201480 comments on the www.cnn.com story from Aug 4, 2010, titled Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage. In it, www.cnn.com reports that:

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.cnn.com.

JayBoo

La Puente, CA

#161859 Oct 3, 2012
JayBoo will fly out all those Willard Mitt Romney supporters, to a country of there choice, so long as it's off North American.

Paul D. Ryan supportrs will have to take boats.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161860 Oct 3, 2012
thisGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
BULLSHIT
No one is born homosexual. It is learned behavior-—just like raping babies-—just like pedophilia—etc. It is learned behavior. Don’t tell me people are “born” with the orientation to rape kids. It is irrational!
What is irrational is your refusal to learn what science is actually teachings
thisGuy wrote:
It is an environment (culture and parents/peers) that redirects or directs the object of lust, while children are forming their sexual identity.
Psychiatrists can give tests to children as young as 5 and predict which will grow up as gay.
thisGuy wrote:
Children should be allowed to naturally form without trauma and interference which will fixate their sexual drive at immature points of development-—where they will be unable to mature and form long term sexual relationships with the opposite sex.
Or with the same sex, for those that are so inclined. The problem is that there are far too many bigots that want to force their children to pretend to be something that they are not.
thisGuy wrote:
Strong “feelings” are produced during trauma—embedded in the psyche. Children, especially, can not erase those “feelings” easily even if totally inappropriate.
Yes, and that is exactly why children need to be nurtured and loved for who they ARE, and NOT for acting out their parents fantasies about who they ought to be.
thisGuy wrote:
Homosexuality is caused by warping their sense of self and is a fixation in an immature stage of growth—the latency period.
There is no evidence supporting your delusion.
thisGuy wrote:
Children need healthy role models and no perverted role models and protection from sexual/emotional assault.
Absolutely true.
thisGuy wrote:
The vast number of homosexuals are sexually molested, like Chastity Bono. Sexual violation of children warps their sense of self—destroys the integrity of their body and the sex act. It is hard to recover from such violation from a trusted adult. It warps their whole “worldview”.
Like a stopped clock, you have managed to be right twice in one day!

However, the issue is one of cause and effect. Since gays can be recognized as early as 5, there are predators that will deliberately seek out the child that is "different" from the others, perceiving them as more vulnerable. Worse, in some cases, parents that cannot deal with their own homosexual tenancies will react very negatively when they see these traits showing up in their kids.
thisGuy wrote:
Homosexuality and pederasty were universally accepted in Ancient Greece, and all cultures, like the Samurai and today’s Afghanis-—all caused by unnatural environments and glorification of homosexuality and pederasty. Little boys loved being picked by the adult males to be sodomized-—it was learned-—made normal by environment.
Lastly, if it's "normal" then explain why it isn't part of the norm? Oh wait! HETEROSEXUALITY is part of the norm.
"norm" refers to the statistical average. Yes, most people are heterosexual, or mostly straight bisexuals. So what? Minorities still get EQUAL rights.
thisGuy wrote:
You can't have it both ways, you retarded faggot!
I'll take mine straight.

And since you obviously need it, I will provide a series of posts showing the science behind accepting sexual orientation as genetic or epigenetic in nature.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161861 Oct 3, 2012
Study based on fingertip ridges:

J.A.Y. Hall and D. Kimura at the University of Western Ontario at London ON Canada found a relationship between the number of fingertip ridges on men and their sexual orientation. 7 They compared the number of ridges on the index finger and thumb of the left hand with the number on the corresponding fingers of the right hand. They found that 30% of the homosexuals tested had a surplus of ridges on their left hand, whereas only 14% of the heterosexuals did. This is a particularly interesting finding, because fingerprints are fully determined in a fetus before the 17th week of pregnancy, and do not change thereafter, through birth, infancy, childhood, youth and adulthood. This would seem to prove that for at least some adult homosexuals, their sexual orientation was pre-determined before birth, perhaps at conception; certainly by the end of the 4th month of pregnancy. 8,9

7 Caleb Crain, "Did a germ make you gay," Out magazine, 1999-AUG, Pages 46 to 49.

8 Anne Moir and David Jessel, "Brainsex", Dell Books (1993)

9 Dean Hamer & Peter Copeland "The Science of Desire: The Search for the Gay Gene & the Biology of Behavior", Simon & Schuster (1994)

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161862 Oct 3, 2012
Studies based on existing families:

Psychologist Michael Bailey of Northwestern University and Psychiatrist Richard Pillard of Boston University studied the sexual orientation of male siblings raised together since birth. 9 He found that if one was homosexual then the chance of their sibling being homosexual was:

* Fifty two percent for their identical twin, who shared 100% of the same genes. This result was essentially identical to the separated identical twin studies described below. It shows that if one identical male twin is gay, then the other twin will probably also be gay -- whether raised in the same family or raised by different families.
* Twenty-two percent for their non-identical twin; they share half of the same genes
* About 10% for adopted or non-twin brothers; they share none to half of the same genes.

This study also points to a very strong genetic factor at the time of conception. This type of study tends to have the same flaws as in the identical twin studies described below. The second twin might not be willing to admit to being homosexual. One sibling could be bisexual and identify themselves to the interviewer as a homosexual; the other could also be bisexual and be behaving as a homosexual.

J. M. Bailey, R. C. Pillard and others conducted a similar study of female identical twins raised in the same family, in which one twin identified herself as a lesbian. 14 The results showed that 48%(34 out of 71) of their twins also said that she is homosexual. Again, a very strong genetic component is indicated.

9 Dean Hamer & Peter Copeland "The Science of Desire: The Search for the Gay Gene & the Biology of Behavior", Simon & Schuster (1994)

14 Dean Hamer et al, "A Linkage Between DNA Markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation" Science 261 (1993-JUL-16): pp 321-27.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161863 Oct 3, 2012
Direct study of genes:
Part 1 of 2

Dean Hamer, and his colleagues at the National Cancer Institute collected family data from the families of 114 gay men. 15 They found out which, if any, of their siblings, parents, cousins, uncles etc. were also gay. They quickly determined that homosexuality runs in families. By itself, these results show nothing. They might indicate that homosexuality is genetically caused, or might show that it is caused by upbringing, by some hormonal levels in the womb or some other environmental factor that appears in some family lines more than other.

Further studies showed that "There were increased rates of gay people among family members genetically related to each other even when raised apart in different households." This reinforced the possibility that genetic factors might cause people to become gay. However, these observations were not conclusive; they were merely suggestive.

What proved the genetic nature of "gayness" was a pedigree test. This type of study examines the sexual orientation of the ancestors of many gay adults - both on their father's and mother's side. Some possible results from a pedigree study on Hamer's sample of gay adults would be:

1. An approximately equal number of gays might be found on the mothers' side of the family, when compared to the fathers' side. Some gays may have many gay ancestors on their mother's side, whereas other gays may see the same effect on their father's side. But when all the results were lumped together, if the total numbers would be about equal, then the results could point to:
* "Gayness" being caused by environmental factors, or
* "Gayness" being caused by some gene on a chromosome other than the X chromosome.
2. A much larger number of gays might be found on the mother's side of the family. This would show conclusively that not only was the gene passed genetically, but that it is located somewhere on the X chromosome - since men always get their X chromosome only from their mother. This is called the "maternal effect." It is well known in genetics.

The researchers found that the second result was observed. A gay male from the population that Hamer studied would notice that more of his mother's brothers will be gay than his father's brothers; so too with the various classes of maternal cousins when compared to his paternal cousins. Thus, much male homosexuality is caused by a gene on the X chromosome. Hamer went on to find the approximate location on the chromosome where the gay-causing gene was located. He found that many of his subjects had an identical sequence on the Xq28 region of their X chromosome. This shows the approximate location of the "gay gene." Researchers speculated that a group of interacting genes (including one in this region) might be found to determine sexual orientation in males. This prediction came to pass. The statistical "p" value is a measure of the significance of a test: the probability that it could have happened by chance. P values less than 0.01 (1%) are considered very significant. The Hamer study had a P factor of 0.00001, and so is considered extremely reliable.

The DNA of 36 pairs of lesbian sisters were also studied; no corresponding pattern has yet been found.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#161864 Oct 3, 2012
thisGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
"But you weren't smart enough to pass it, it seems."
-Sorry, I don't have a fear of the SAME. Try again, dumbass.
"Gay people say they are, you know better? How?"
-YES, homosexual people say there are! How do I know? Because the full-time & part-time homosexuals have ADMITTED it to me, especially the lesbians!
Yeah, right.
thisGuy wrote:
"Did you have sexual/romantic feelings for both sexes, then just decided to ditch your feelings for men? "
-Sorry, I appreciate & admire opposite sex too much to even think about batting for the same team. You would understand if you weren't such a faggot.
So, you're saying sexual orientation isn't a choice.
thisGuy wrote:
-LOL It seems like you don't know much about genetics, because if you did you would know certain genes carry certain traits---this includes species type, gender, skin color, hair color, etc. If you have checked the medical news, you would know we can see parents who carry the same gene stretching back as 500 yrs. LOL For people who claim to be all for sciences, you homos & Liberals sure don't know much.
Calm down, con dumb. I said there is a great deal about genes and how they function that isn't known. You disagree?
thisGuy wrote:
-Reality check: Straight men don't go around wearing WOMEN'S clothing, dumbass.
Actually, some do. And I'm a chick.
thisGuy wrote:
-LOL That explains alot. Hollyweird & LA seem to be full of sexual perverts. Also, isn't LA home to many porn stars? Scary.
I live in the San Pornando Valley.:) Pron capital of the world. Jealous?
"Which means that if one of your neighbors decides, as Johnson's did, to rent out his house for the filming of "The Alphabet" — in which sexual acts are performed in alphabetical order by 21-year-old identical twins — there's not much you can do to stop him."
http://kamillionblog.wordpress.com/2006/05/07...
thisGuy wrote:
-LOL This is precisely why all the other states think California is a joke.
So, when are they going to stop moving here?
Anyway, you've missed the point.
I never see gay people shoving anything in anybody's face.
thisGuy wrote:
-How the HELL am I being "obsessive" by disagreeing with homosexuality & providing reasons for it?
Ptttt....
Damn, gotta clean the Mountain Dew off of my monitor.
thisGuy wrote:
Explain. I disagree with high taxes, does that mean I'm "obsessed" over high-taxes? No, of course not. You dumbass queers can't even stay on topic. Why the hell are you freaks so obsessed with ruining marriage for the rest of us?
And keyboard...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161865 Oct 3, 2012
Direct study of genes:
Part 2 of 2

The Hamer group's results on gay males must be regarded as tentative:

* Dr. Alan Sanders, professor of psychiatry at the University of Chicago attempted to replicate the results on 54 sets of gay brothers. He announced at the American Psychiatric Association's annual conference in 1998-JUN that he was unsuccessful. "No [genetic] marker data reached statistically significant criteria." The results of the pedigree test on Sander's subjects is not known.
* George Rice's selected subjects from carefully selected families in which the pedigree test was the reverse of Hamer's: gays were found in the father's line, not the mother's line. As expected, the markers that Hamer found were not found by Rice. 16 One might conclude that:
o Some gays have many gay ancestors in their mother's line but not in their fathers' line. This was the group from which Hamer drew his subjects. They share genes on their X chromosome that apparently can cause a gay orientation.
o Other gays have the reverse pedigree pattern: they have many gay ancestors in their father's line but not their mother's. One would not expect them to have gay-causing genes on their X chromosome. Rice was unable to find any.

15 Mike Haley, "Straight Answers: Exposing the myths and facts about homosexuality," Focus on the Family, Love Won Out series,(2000), Page 9.

16 Kerby Anderson, "Homosexual Theology," at: http://www.probe.org/docs/homotheo.html

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161866 Oct 3, 2012
Studies on monozygotic twins:
Part 1 of 2

These are twins that resulted from the splitting of a single fertilized egg -- the zygote -- into two separate zygotes with identical genetic structure. It can happen at any time prior to about 14 days after conception. They are commonly called "identical twins." Studying these twins, researchers can determine whether a trait such as homosexuality is determined by the environment or by genetics or by a combination of both. The technique involves the study of pairs of identical twins who were separated at birth and raised in different families without later contact. Being identical twins, they would have the same genetic structure. But being raised independently in different families (often in different states), they would mature (at least after birth) and experience totally unrelated environments, family types, family sizes, parenting methods, level of abuse, etc. Fortunately, a U.S. university maintains an index of twins who were raised separately since birth.

Schizophrenia occurs in about 1% of the adult population. In previous decades, the disorder was believed to be caused by incompetent parenting. Studies of identical twins overturned this belief. They showed that if one twin was schizophrenic, the chances of the other twin having the disorder is 65%. This shows that schizophrenia has a very strong genetic component. 17 Decades ago, autism was also blamed on the parents. Identical twin studies turned up similar results: if one twin was autistic, there was a 68% chance that the other was also autistic. 17 Similarly the cause of homosexuality has been attributed to lack of bonding between a child and the same-sex parent. This belief has been abandoned by almost all mental health professionals. However, many religious conservatives still promote this principle. Studies of identical twins have shown that if one twin is gay, the other has about a 55% of also being gay. Again, there is a very strong genetic component at work.

Assume as a working assumption that 5% of adults are gay. A typical study would involve:

* The interview of perhaps 2,000 males, all of whom had separately raised monozygotic twins.
* The identification of about 100 gays.
* Tracking down the other twin in each case, to determine their sexual orientation.

Two possibilities are:

* There is no genetic basis for sexual orientation. That is, a statement by Parents and Friends of Ex-gays is correct: "To date, all information and studies involving genetics have proven homosexuality to be environmental, not genetic." Then one would expect close to 5% of the second twins would also be gay.
* A homosexual orientation is totally caused by genes. One would then expect that between 0 and 100% of the other twin would also be gay, depending upon a property of the gene called its "penetrance."

This type of test has been performed by various groups of researchers. The first such study found that 100% of the second twins were also gay. But this study was based on a very small sample size; the results it turned out to be a statistical fluke. Subsequent, larger, tests all reported that somewhat in excess of 50% of the second twins are also gay. This indicates that genes play a very significant role in determining sexual orientation. however, the number is not 100%. This indicates that environment plays a role in determining sexual orientation. It might be an event in the womb, or in early childhood. Other studies, explained below, show that a person's eventual sexual orientation is determined before they reach school age.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161867 Oct 3, 2012
Studies on monozygotic twins:
Part 2 of 2

One problem with this and similar studies is that the researchers can ask what a person's orientation is, but not necessarily get a valid answer; a gay individual may be so firmly "in the closet" that they will not admit even to a stranger what their actual orientation is. Also, most studies classify subjects as either heterosexual or homosexual. A bisexual person might be involved with persons of the opposite gender and consider themselves to be heterosexual; their twin may also be bisexual but be involved with members of the same gender, and identify themselves as homosexual. Another problem is that identical twins share the same environment (their mother's womb) for the 9 months prior to birth. Thus, if there is a environmental factor which determines sexual orientation, it might work on the fetus before birth. This series of replicated studies proves beyond any doubt that at least male homosexuality is largely determined before birth. As the American Psychological Association's statement on homosexuality in 1994-JUL asserts: "Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth..."

17 Op cit, Matt Ridley, Pages 103 &104
18 [Note, the work cited is: Matt Ridley, "Nature via nurture: Genes, experience, and what makes us human," HarperCollins,(2003).]

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161868 Oct 3, 2012
LBer wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, if those 'Rights' went beyond what the Constitution allows, and the federal laws deriving from such, they wold be struck down; in that sense the states can not give 'More rights' to the people.
Careful, the state can be as much of, or even more, a tyrant as the feds.
"Article VI, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution is known as the Supremacy Clause because it provides that the "Constitution, and the Laws of the United States … shall be the supreme Law of the Land." It means that the federal government, in exercising any of the powers enumerated in the Constitution, must prevail over any conflicting or inconsistent state exercise of power."
All too true. Just witness the federal crack down on the legal use of marijuana for medical purposes. Even though federal law clearly has no jurisdiction, the feds are usurping the powers guaranteed to the state, leaving the citizens with no legal recourse. Well, except for the 2nd amendment...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161869 Oct 3, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
At 16 you can literally make life and death decisions for yourself and others while driving. Why shouldn't you be able to decide if you want to have sex or not?
<quoted text>
Only sexually insecure losers.
Different states have different ages for the age of consent. IIRC, Alaska has it at 21.

The problem with ANY arbitrarily defined age of consent is that there will a few kids that mature early, and are capable of making rational choices before the age, and there are plenty of kids that DON'T mature as fast and are nowhere NEAR ready for such decisions until several YEARS past the age of consent. Heck, there are some allegedly ADULT people who are not capable of making a rational, informed consent when it comes to sex!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161870 Oct 3, 2012
LBer wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but I could have just as easily said 13. And I think the major disgust society (here) would have is, say a 50 year old guy, with a young girl (or boy). Though in some countries the responsibility a 13 year old girl would have, coupled with the maturity that would bring, and the survival advantage to being with a much older man in some of these destitute places, would make a logical argument even for them.
An 18 year old and a 65 year old are legal, but may in society would be disgusted to see it...(REGARDLESS of their genders!)

FYI, a man over 35 doubles his chance of fathering a child with autism. There are some good reasons for both parents to be young when they have children, just not TOO young.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161871 Oct 3, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>This is a good argument:
"Keep marriage male/female because every gay was born of male/female union."
Government privileges marriage because it receives value, posterity. That value isn't provided by same sex marriage, so there is no need to privilege same sex unions.
There's nothing wrong with homosexuals or homosexuality; that's no reason to rewrite marriage law. Don't apply your sympathy for gays to social policy, since that will only cause more harm than good. Gays have the same right to freedom of association as everyone else, there's no ban on traveling to a jurisdiction that allows same sex marriage for a wedding. There's no ban on your religious institution providing a same sex marriage ceremony. There's no orientation test for marriage, gays have always married under the same laws as everyone else. I cite Meredith Baxter and Oscar Wilde as two examples.
If you value your mother and father; keep marriage male/female.
The government value from marriage has little to do with the children. Children will be born regardless of the existence of marriages. The government gains value because married people are m more likely to own property and lead stable lives (and pay more taxes). And that is something that gays can do just as well as straights.

Now, if the laws of this country did not recognize the right of people to choose their own mates from those that they love, then MAYBE you could claim that gays have the "same" rights as straights. But, here is a news flash: NOBODY has arraigned marriages anymore. People get to choose to marry for love, or any other reason they wish. And as long as that is the case, then equal rights can ONLY be had if gays are allowed to marry any person they choose, REGARDLESS of gender.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#161872 Oct 3, 2012
Tata wrote:
<quoted text>
Agree there may be some stupid reasons, but there are also good reasons. The gay cult community refuses to aknowledge any reasonable argument or explanation. I never menitoned anything about changing ones sexual orientation, this is what I mean when I say gays refuse to read and comprehend. Talking about change? gays change things around to suit themselves, that is cahnge
Maybe there are good reasons to deny gay marriage. I have never heard or seen one. If you can provide one, it would be the first.
DorN

Altadena, CA

#161873 Oct 3, 2012
Gay fathers would not have gay sons if the trait is on the X chromosome. Gay fathers would have daughters with one X chromosome carrying the trait for gayness and one X chromosome from the mother could be for gayness if the mother had one of her X chromosome that carrying the trait for gayness. It might be possible for a female child to get two X chromosomes for gayness. This might emplain the genetic makeup for lesbians.
The study for sex linked trait must be extended to include the grandchildren.
Ronald

Bellflower, CA

#161874 Oct 3, 2012
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe there are good reasons to deny gay marriage. I have never heard or seen one. If you can provide one, it would be the first.
Liam R.

Yes. Two or more persons of the same sex having the "right" to "marry" one another is little different from the Republican's 14th Amendment that granted the "right" of the Africans to "marry" White people. Even so, I wish you would limit your cutting and pasting copious amounts of often irrelevant "studies" and and instead put the findings in your own words. Spamming chances alienating those of us who might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause of our Homosexual friends, the lesbians, and the stolen Africans.

Ronald
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#161878 Oct 3, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh, your obsession with Rose continues, I see.
Gotta defend Rose! She is my fav poster after all - keeps me laughing!
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#161880 Oct 3, 2012
LBer wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank the Founding Fathers for that!
Holy shiite! Someone (Rose)went through the trouble of putting: 6 spam, 6 clueless, and 6 nuts to this - and it was merely a comment on someone posting what the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution was...which was written by the Founding Fathers.

Atleast read what you're putting your emoticon judgements to.

Oh, and try atleast to vary the amount, so we don't know immediately it's all by one person.

Dang rocket scientists...
Tata

Redondo Beach, CA

#161881 Oct 3, 2012
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe there are good reasons to deny gay marriage. I have never heard or seen one. If you can provide one, it would be the first.
The gay cult will become a financial and imoral burden on to the citizens of this country. Can't you feel yourself pushing for something we don't want ?? as the Feds have resopnded,you are second class
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#161884 Oct 3, 2012
Gulags wrote:
A vote for Willard Mitt Romney is a vote for LDS communism.
Was a vote for JFK a vote for the Pope? A vote for Clinton a vote for BJs? A vote for Obama a vote for foodstamps?

;-)

BTW - as a kid going to the supermarket, I often could trade the cash mom gave me to buy food, for food-stamps from people selling them out front. Usually it was 2 food-stamp dollars for one cash dollar trade, then I'd buy whatever extra treats I wanted.

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