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21 - 40 of 72 Comments Last updated Jul 27, 2013
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#21
Jul 20, 2013
 

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Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
Thanks for the answer. I'm really trying to understand the Catholic position, not be snarky, btw.
You said that the Catholic church "forgive sins or not"... where does this idea come from , in the Scriptures?
Also, the thing I have a real problem with re: Catholicism is the idea that "whoever hears the Church hears him", which ignores all the bad decisions and choices made by church leaders from the beginning to now. Does that mean if a pope makes a bad decision that hurts a lot of people, then God made that decision? This is one of the reasons why Protestantism makes more sense to me - Christ is Christ, the church is the church - and she's his bride, but not Him. She does her best to speak for Him, according to His word, but she is fallible, constantly in need of His grace.
And yes, we do need to confess, but not to a man. We confess to the one who paid the price on our behalf on the cross, because that man didn't die for us.
Regarding the need to eat and drink Him, John Piper has a good explanation here: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/what-je...
And while I am most definitely not perfect, the one who is my Lord is, thank goodness!
<quoted text>
John Piper is just another Protestant minister who interprets the Bible any way he wants to so it matches what he believes.

He is no more right than any other protestant including you. As someone who believes in SS you can go to him and tell him he is completely and wrong and have every right to do so.

Everybody is right in Protestantism.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#22
Jul 21, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorance of history.
I think it's ignorance of truth.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#23
Jul 21, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are not a Roman Catholic or a member of a rite in communion with Rome or Greek Orthodox you are a protestant no matter what you may call yourself. If you are a member of a church that didn't appear until after 1517 you are a protestant no matter what you may call yourself. If you insist on calling yourself simply a Christian then you are just another victim of the Sola Scriptura protestant heresy.
What's 1517 got to do with it? What about those who rejected the first Pole appointed by Rome? There have always existed those who rejected Roman rule in the Church - and many of them were killed by the Roman Church. So that's how they established their authority - by murdering decree. Your ignorance and denial of historical facts must have completely numbed your senses.

Rome would call anyone who believes what God has said above what the Pope has said to protest her, but she has protested against God. Doesn't your Bible tell the story in the gospels where someone from the crowd shouted 'Blessed are the breasts that nursed you', and Jesus replied that those who do the will of God are more blessed. He never taught veneration of His earthly mother - but that we must repent and do the will of God.

All your RCC vs Protestant rants are falling on deaf ears to those who know what you say isn't true because it doesn't match with the what the Bible says. But you can, and will, continue in your delusion and refuse to hear the truth that will shatter the illusion you have chosen to believe instead of the truth of God taught by His Anointed One. Scriptures say whoever will not hear Him in all things will be cut off from the brethren.

Since: Jun 11

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#24
Jul 21, 2013
 

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Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
What's 1517 got to do with it? What about those who rejected the first Pole appointed by Rome? There have always existed those who rejected Roman rule in the Church - and many of them were killed by the Roman Church. So that's how they established their authority - by murdering decree. Your ignorance and denial of historical facts must have completely numbed your senses.
Rome would call anyone who believes what God has said above what the Pope has said to protest her, but she has protested against God. Doesn't your Bible tell the story in the gospels where someone from the crowd shouted 'Blessed are the breasts that nursed you', and Jesus replied that those who do the will of God are more blessed. He never taught veneration of His earthly mother - but that we must repent and do the will of God.
All your RCC vs Protestant rants are falling on deaf ears to those who know what you say isn't true because it doesn't match with the what the Bible says. But you can, and will, continue in your delusion and refuse to hear the truth that will shatter the illusion you have chosen to believe instead of the truth of God taught by His Anointed One. Scriptures say whoever will not hear Him in all things will be cut off from the brethren.
Not only do you have your very own one man church now you've got your very own history book as well. When I think of flaky first I think of my mom's buttermilk biscuits then I think of you.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#25
Jul 21, 2013
 

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On Confession, Mike Peterson disagrees with me.

First, I agree that God gave Christ the mission to forgive sins.

Second, I'm no Greek scholar, but I did a search on your quote Matthew 9:8, and found that it is an incorrect translation. According to my internet sources, the word is not plural "men", but singular "man". In Greek, the word is &#7940;&#957;&#952 ;&#961;&#969;&#960 ;&#959;&#962;, and the "&#959;&#962; " signifies a singular. Thus, the crowds "glorified God, who had given such authority to a man." That man was Jesus.

In your next post to me about Piper, you mentioned interpreting Scripture as something only Protestants do. However, you are doing that with John 20:21-23 when you use that verse to justify the need for a man to be the intermediary between the sinner and Jesus Christ. I could do the same thing to show you that it means something different - that the disciples then and the saints now all have the ability to preach the Good News which leaves to the forgiveness of sins - and sins are forgiven by Christ alone.

I have a question - can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins, the way priests do for Catholics now?
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
On Confession, Jesus disagrees with you.
This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.... Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21Ė23).
How could the disciples forgive sins if the new Christians did not tell the disciples what they were?
Are you the Church (the community of believers) or a member of a Church?
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#26
Jul 21, 2013
 

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Sorry, Topix doesn't like Greek letters, it seems. In English, what it should have said was:

"In Greek, the word is 'anthr&#333;pos" and the "-os" signifies a singular."
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#27
Jul 21, 2013
 

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Argh!

anthropos.

Since: Jun 11

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#28
Jul 21, 2013
 
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
On Confession, Mike Peterson disagrees with me.
First, I agree that God gave Christ the mission to forgive sins.
Second, I'm no Greek scholar, but I did a search on your quote Matthew 9:8, and found that it is an incorrect translation. According to my internet sources, the word is not plural "men", but singular "man". In Greek, the word is &#7940;&#957;&#952 ;&#961;&#969;&#960 ;&#959;&#962;, and the "&#959;&#962; " signifies a singular. Thus, the crowds "glorified God, who had given such authority to a man." That man was Jesus.
In your next post to me about Piper, you mentioned interpreting Scripture as something only Protestants do. However, you are doing that with John 20:21-23 when you use that verse to justify the need for a man to be the intermediary between the sinner and Jesus Christ. I could do the same thing to show you that it means something different - that the disciples then and the saints now all have the ability to preach the Good News which leaves to the forgiveness of sins - and sins are forgiven by Christ alone.
I have a question - can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins, the way priests do for Catholics now?
<quoted text>
Here it is July 21, 2013. Do you really think you have the charism to dispute today what was decided by infallible Ecumenical Councils many centuries ago and reaffirmed by all succeeding generations in the East and the West? You need to stop trying to be a Greek scholar and research the history of public and private confession and penance. No Catholic believes a priest forgives sins. By the way it is called The Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#29
Jul 21, 2013
 

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Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
On Confession, Mike Peterson disagrees with me.
First, I agree that God gave Christ the mission to forgive sins.
Second, I'm no Greek scholar, but I did a search on your quote Matthew 9:8, and found that it is an incorrect translation. According to my internet sources, the word is not plural "men", but singular "man". In Greek, the word is &#7940;&#957;&#952 ;&#961;&#969;&#960 ;&#959;&#962;, and the "&#959;&#962; " signifies a singular. Thus, the crowds "glorified God, who had given such authority to a man." That man was Jesus.
In your next post to me about Piper, you mentioned interpreting Scripture as something only Protestants do. However, you are doing that with John 20:21-23 when you use that verse to justify the need for a man to be the intermediary between the sinner and Jesus Christ. I could do the same thing to show you that it means something different - that the disciples then and the saints now all have the ability to preach the Good News which leaves to the forgiveness of sins - and sins are forgiven by Christ alone.
I have a question - can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins, the way priests do for Catholics now?
<quoted text>
There are tens of thousands Greek scholars alive today who disagree with you and each other.

I never interpret scripture. Jesus left a Church that was the pillar and foundation of truth to teach us what that truth is.

Didn't he?

The CC created the Bible to help her teach, 350 years after Jesus died.

Find yourself a good history of the Bible. You need to learn where it came from, why, and how.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#30
Jul 21, 2013
 
MarkEden,

To answer your first question, certainly! But my dispute doesn't start on July 21, 2013. It started with a simple priest on October 31, 1517 at the little castle church at Wittenberg. And actually, it started way before that - largely a byproduct of a church that had become corrupt.

As to what "no catholic believes", I was responding to the post Mike Peterson wrote, which clearly implied through the quoting of John 20:21-23 that the ability to forgive sins lies with the priest via apostolic succession.

And since you interrupted our discussion, maybe you can answer the question I asked to Mike, which I will ask again here:

Can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins?

MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Here it is July 21, 2013. Do you really think you have the charism to dispute today what was decided by infallible Ecumenical Councils many centuries ago and reaffirmed by all succeeding generations in the East and the West? You need to stop trying to be a Greek scholar and research the history of public and private confession and penance. No Catholic believes a priest forgives sins. By the way it is called The Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#31
Jul 21, 2013
 
Thanks for the advice, Mike, I've been a student of Bible history for a while, but it never hurts to study more.

However, I'm still trying to understand what Catholics believe happens in confession. So, because of MarkEden's response, answer this - does the priest forgive sins?

If the answer is no, then why does a Catholic need to go to the priest?

And as I asked MarkEden, can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins, the way priests do for Catholics now?
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
There are tens of thousands Greek scholars alive today who disagree with you and each other.
I never interpret scripture. Jesus left a Church that was the pillar and foundation of truth to teach us what that truth is.
Didn't he?
The CC created the Bible to help her teach, 350 years after Jesus died.
Find yourself a good history of the Bible. You need to learn where it came from, why, and how.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#32
Jul 22, 2013
 

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Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
Thanks for the advice, Mike, I've been a student of Bible history for a while, but it never hurts to study more.
However, I'm still trying to understand what Catholics believe happens in confession. So, because of MarkEden's response, answer this - does the priest forgive sins?
If the answer is no, then why does a Catholic need to go to the priest?
And as I asked MarkEden, can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins, the way priests do for Catholics now?
<quoted text>
Then you know that the Bible is a Catholic book. It was created by the CC in the year AD 382. It was crated by Catholics for Catholics as all Christians before 1520 were Catholic.

The better question is why did Protestants decided 1500 years after Jesus to quit confessing your sins to a Priest.

The NT specifically says Jesus told the disciples they were to forgive or not forgive sins. How much do more do you need. Don't you think the disciples didn't listen to that.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#33
Jul 22, 2013
 

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Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
MarkEden,
To answer your first question, certainly! But my dispute doesn't start on July 21, 2013. It started with a simple priest on October 31, 1517 at the little castle church at Wittenberg. And actually, it started way before that - largely a byproduct of a church that had become corrupt.
As to what "no catholic believes", I was responding to the post Mike Peterson wrote, which clearly implied through the quoting of John 20:21-23 that the ability to forgive sins lies with the priest via apostolic succession.
And since you interrupted our discussion, maybe you can answer the question I asked to Mike, which I will ask again here:
Can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins?
<quoted text>
So why aren't you a Lutheran if you think that heretic Priest that broke his vows that he made before God was so great. See you are a Protester against him today.

You Protest any church you don't agree with.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#34
Jul 22, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only do you have your very own one man church now you've got your very own history book as well. When I think of flaky first I think of my mom's buttermilk biscuits then I think of you.
I don't make up history - history is what happened, making history is happening. Take any topic on the news today and there will be more than one side to the story - often more viewpoints than there are people involved. But to know history, you have to explore more than one viewpoint, or telling, of history. Maybe I'm a flakey biscuit, but I like a variety of toppings - but none of them is p**p - organic preserved accounts - those are my favorites.

Since: Jun 11

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#35
Jul 22, 2013
 

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Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
MarkEden,
To answer your first question, certainly! But my dispute doesn't start on July 21, 2013. It started with a simple priest on October 31, 1517 at the little castle church at Wittenberg. And actually, it started way before that - largely a byproduct of a church that had become corrupt.
As to what "no catholic believes", I was responding to the post Mike Peterson wrote, which clearly implied through the quoting of John 20:21-23 that the ability to forgive sins lies with the priest via apostolic succession.
And since you interrupted our discussion, maybe you can answer the question I asked to Mike, which I will ask again here:
Can you show me in the New Testament an account of any of the apostles forgiving sinners for their personal sins?
<quoted text>
What difference does that make? None whatsoever. Is there a verse that tells us how they used the toilet? Does that mean we can't use the toilet? Proof texting is a silly game in which protestants engage along with Sola Scriptura. Ever hear of the Keys?

"Just before he left this world, he gave the apostles special authority, commissioning them to make Godís forgiveness present to all people, and the whole Christian world accepted this, until just a few centuries ago. If there is an "invention" here, it is not the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but the notion that the sacramental forgiveness of sins is not to be found in the Bible or in early Christian history."

And Luther was hardly a "simple priest."

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

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#36
Jul 22, 2013
 

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Know the truth

John 8:31-32

www.roysecitycoc.org

Since: Jun 11

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#37
Jul 22, 2013
 
It's very interesting to read how Luther conducted private confession and absolution. It's also interesting to learn how Lutherans still do it today. Looks like all you low end prots have it all wrong.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#38
Jul 22, 2013
 

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Luther was also still a Marian.

From his writings.

Christ,..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.(Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39).

He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb...This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.(Ibid.)

God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God.(Ibid.).

God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs...just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone.(On the Councils and the Church, 1539).

Christ,..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.(Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39).

He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb...This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.(Ibid.)

God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God.(Ibid.).

God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs...just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone.(On the Councils and the Church, 1539).

It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother. God is his father.(Sermon. Christmas, 1522)

Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees...If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother.(Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation.(Sermon, March 11, 1523).

Our prayer should include the Mother of God...What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor..

.We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her...He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary.(Personal Prayer Book, 1522).
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#39
Jul 22, 2013
 
So to speak more clearly, there is no example of the disciples forgiving personal sin in the Bible. That's all I wanted to know. Thanks!
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
What difference does that make? None whatsoever. Is there a verse that tells us how they used the toilet? Does that mean we can't use the toilet? Proof texting is a silly game in which protestants engage along with Sola Scriptura. Ever hear of the Keys?
"Just before he left this world, he gave the apostles special authority, commissioning them to make Godís forgiveness present to all people, and the whole Christian world accepted this, until just a few centuries ago. If there is an "invention" here, it is not the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but the notion that the sacramental forgiveness of sins is not to be found in the Bible or in early Christian history."
And Luther was hardly a "simple priest."
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#40
Jul 22, 2013
 
Did I say I protested against Lutherans? Did I say I protested against Catholics? You're assuming quite a bit here.
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So why aren't you a Lutheran if you think that heretic Priest that broke his vows that he made before God was so great. See you are a Protester against him today.
You Protest any church you don't agree with.

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