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Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#1 Jun 7, 2013
Would it surprise anyone very much if I said: Guess what! I'm gay! The usual response is: not really, you do seem sort of fruity. Would you
think differently about what I have I have written? Would you loose respect for me? Would you loose interest in me?

You can relax: I am not gay. I will expose my true self by confessing that I am a woman. You made assumptions about my gender based on my fake name and silly avatar. The joke has gone on long enough - you can still call me Steve. Do you feel differently about what I have written? Did you loose respect for me? Did you loose interest?

Homosexual people often disguise themselves so that they are not judged by people (by Christians!). They know that your opinion of everything about them will change as soon as you know their sexuality - something you have no business knowing. Why do you need to know if I am a man or woman? Why do you need to know if I am gay or straight? I would suggest that every one of you know more gay people than you
know that you know. Many prefer to keep that information private, for fear of how people would use it against them.

This is the fault of Christian and intolerant society thinking. Gay people have created societies of their own where it is not in their best interest to hide their sexuality. Their lifestyles are honest ones - much more honest
than trying to live a lie in mainstream society. I admire those people who are publicly gay since I know that they had to believe in themselves to be able to expose themselves. For every gay exposed, there are at least 2 hidden. They are hiding from YOU.

Do you know gay people? What is your message to them? How do you interpret God's message to them? What do you suggest they do about being gay? What actions are you taking to promote or
prevent gay marriage? Who do you consider to be a gay person - not specifically (no names!) but what are the requirements to be considered a
gay person? Can the Bible be interpreted in ANY way that suggests gay people can be accepted by God in into Heaven? How can there be gay churches?

Tell me why you think gay people should not be allowed to marry then I will explain to you how I think you are wrong.

Here is a scene from an old movie that gives insight to how it FEELS to be gay. It has the F-bomb though, so if you can't handle it, don't click.



I suggest that gays are misunderstood and judged harshly. Perhaps if you understood them better, you could learn to accept them as they are.
William

Sylacauga, AL

#2 Jun 7, 2013
You're a chick?

Cool.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#3 Jun 7, 2013
William wrote:
You're a chick?
Cool.
lol

I'm glad you approve.

I strive to be gender neutral here in Topix. I use gender-less pronouns and descriptions.

I am always regretful for misleading people though. Lying doesn't suit me at all.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#4 Jun 7, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
Would it surprise anyone very much if I said: Guess what! I'm gay! The usual response is: not really, you do seem sort of fruity. Would you
think differently about what I have I have written? Would you loose respect for me? Would you loose interest in me?
You can relax: I am not gay. I will expose my true self by confessing that I am a woman. You made assumptions about my gender based on my fake name and silly avatar. The joke has gone on long enough - you can still call me Steve. Do you feel differently about what I have written? Did you loose respect for me? Did you loose interest?
Homosexual people often disguise themselves so that they are not judged by people (by Christians!). They know that your opinion of everything about them will change as soon as you know their sexuality - something you have no business knowing. Why do you need to know if I am a man or woman? Why do you need to know if I am gay or straight? I would suggest that every one of you know more gay people than you
than trying to live a lie in mainstream society. I admire those people who are publicly gay since I know that they had to believe in themselves to be able to expose themselves. For every gay exposed, there are at least 2 hidden. They are hiding from YOU.
Do you know gay people? What is your message to them? How do you interpret God's message to them? What do you suggest they do about being gay? What actions are you taking to promote or
prevent gay marriage? Who do you consider to be a gay person - not specifically (no names!) but what are the requirements to be considered a
gay person? Can the Bible be interpreted in ANY way that suggests gay people can be accepted by God in into Heaven? How can there be gay churches?
Tell me why you think gay people should not be allowed to marry then I will explain to you how I think you are wrong.
Here is a scene from an old movie that gives insight to how it FEELS to be gay. It has the F-bomb though, so if you can't handle it, don't click.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =9ioePARlwhoXX
I suggest that gays are misunderstood and judged harshly. Perhaps if you understood them better, you could learn to accept them as they are.
CCC

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#5 Jun 7, 2013
Dave: I have thought for a long while now that CONSTITUTIONALLY, I can see no way for gay marriage to be illegal. It does seem by the letter to be discrimination. I fully expect that very soon gay marriage will be the law of the land. Looking at the issue in a strict constitutional way will lead to gay marriage being legalized.

ASM: I appreciate that you are able to see that this is NOT a Christian issue - Americans are promised equal rights but the Bible didn't promise them. I agree that legal gay marriage is only a matter of time.

Dave: BUT- what I foresee happening is the "militant" homosexuals, once being allowed legally to marry, then having couples enter into churches and demanding to be married and recognized in and by the church; causing the church to violate their beliefs. If the churches don't comply, then what? Losing tax exempt status? Leaders jailed for violating civil rights? Churches being forced to close? Persecution of the church?

ASM: You are saying: you can't give them ONE thing because then they will feel entitled to EVERYTHING. Gays don't want to marry animals or 3 people at a time - they only do not want their gender to be used against them. They want a gay marriage to = a straight marriage. That's just ONE thing. They are already being scorned by church, why would they suddenly demand to be embraced by church? Don't churches have the liberty to deny performing a marriage between any two people? How would allowing gay marriage also allow the government to bully churches around? It is a civil right to be able to marry a person of a different race or religion - but I know churches that WON'T do it. Are they breaking the law?

Dave - I don't disagree with you Steve. One area Christians have gone wrong is being duped by the political process. The "Christian Coalition" or the "Religious Right". We have one party catering to the moral and spiritual attitudes of many people, convincing them that they are the "moral choice" to vote for. We crusade against gay marriage and abortion, become a two-issue republican group, and constantly vote for people who truly only care about getting elected. The other side is demonized and protested. The divide in our country grows deeper.

ASM - You are SO right!! How can people not see this? I threatened not to vote last fall and received tongue lashings like you wouldn't believe. However, I couldn't make myself not vote because there was the tiniest chance that it COULD make a difference - alas, it did not.

Dave - I do not believe God created anyone to be gay. I think many things factor in to bring this about. But the most important thing to me is this-the existence of open homosexuality in a society is a clear indication of a society in a steep and dangerous decline. People often read Romans 1:18-32 to simply say "Aha! Told you homosexuality is a sin!" What we miss is the fact that all kinds of sin is mentioned here, and these are the steps to societal destruction. And the scariest part- God "gives them over" to all these things.

ASM - While I do foresee a break down of our economy in our future, I think that societal destruction is an exaggeration. I will do some reading about your theory.

Dave - God basically says "You want it your way? You got it." People reject the truth, the apparent truth, that God exists; their thoughts were futile and hearts darkened; they worshiped idols; God gave them up to uncleanness and vile passions, of which homosexuality is one; God then gave them over to a debased mind. That debased mind leads to a multitude of sins.

ASM - Yep. My mind is debased. I sin. I agree that the Bible teaches against homosexuality and that you are supporting the Bible with your opinion. I just cannot agree with this way of thinking.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#6 Jun 7, 2013
ASM: You are saying: you can't give them ONE thing because then they will feel entitled to EVERYTHING. Gays don't want to marry animals or 3 people at a time - they only do not want their gender to be used against them. They want a gay marriage to = a straight marriage. That's just ONE thing. They are already being scorned by church, why would they suddenly demand to be embraced by church? Don't churches have the liberty to deny performing a marriage between any two people? How would allowing gay marriage also allow the government to bully churches around? It is a civil right to be able to marry a person of a different race or religion - but I know churches that WON'T do it. Are they breaking the law?

Dave: Lots here. Firstly, I as an individual do not have the power to give anyone anything in such manner. At this point the fate of gay marriage probably lies in the court system. If not, gay marriage will be legal in all northeast, urban midwest, and west coast states. It will be illegal in the south and rural midwest along with Texas. This could literally turn into another civil rights war as was seen in the 1960s.

I agree- gays don't want polygamy or beastiality. Some people out there will ride the coattails of gay marriage to try to make these acceptable. I don't see it happening-yet. Until enough people have the same belief and a political party can exploit the issue for voters and votes.

ASM: It is a civil right to be able to marry a person of a different race or religion - but I know churches that WON'T do it. Are they breaking the law?

Dave: I don't know the law on the issue. But as for religion, the church has a standard given in 2 Corinthians 6:14 that believers are not to be yoked together with unbelievers, and Christians are also told that they should not marry unbelievers. For a church congregation to not marry a mixed religion couple, I see no problem with it.

The race issue is a totally different thing. Again, I don't know the law on such matters, but spiritually speaking the idea of "races shouldn't mix" is complete Biblical ignorance. The OT Jews weren't to intermarry with pagans, but the idea was religious and spiritual purity- the same idea as in the Corinthian letter. There is nothing condemning interracial marriage in the Bible, and I see no problem with interracial couples.

ASM: They want a gay marriage to = a straight marriage. That's just ONE thing. They are already being scorned by church, why would they suddenly demand to be embraced by church? Don't churches have the liberty to deny performing a marriage between any two people? How would allowing gay marriage also allow the government to bully churches around?

Dave: Steve, I don't want to say you're naive (sp?), but do you really think everyone involved in the gay marriage debate is altruistic in their motives? Do all really just want marriage equality?

Do you think some gays would be bitter towards the church in general and try to force some to accept them as is? I do.

If gay marriage becomes law, and churches refuse to perform ceremonies, you can't see the govt. forcing churches to perform marriages? How about the school systems in the south and segregation? After all, wouldn't churches be violating civil rights? I have never studied segregation and the church, but I think that most southern churches were segregated by choice and largely stayed that way. Would gays start their own churches? Force their way into existing churches-and if so, what then happens if they aren't accepted?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#7 Jun 8, 2013
Dave: Firstly, I as an individual do not have the power to give anyone anything in such manner. At this point the fate of gay marriage probably lies in the court system. If not, gay marriage will be legal in all northeast, urban midwest, and west coast states. It will be illegal in the south and rural midwest along with Texas. This could literally turn into another civil rights war as was seen in the 1960s.

ASM: Have Christians given up the fight? I was un-informed. You seem as if you are just waiting for the reprecussions, preparing yourself to hold strong to your right not to honor a marriage you judge to be offensive to God. Fair enough. You're doing the right thing, in my opinion.

Dave: I agree- gays don't want polygamy or bestiality. Some people out there will ride the coattails of gay marriage to try to make these acceptable. I don't see it happening-yet. Until enough people have the same belief and a political party can exploit the issue for voters and votes.

ASM: Those things could one day be issues although I would be surprised if either polygamy or bestiality were popular enough to influence politics. But, anything can happen, so.. what makes gay marriage more reasonable than those options? Even though only 5% of the
US population is gay - that's way more than the others. Gay people do not reproduce, however, gay people have been around as long as people have been around. They are not a trend, they are consistent. But then, couldn't I say the same about polygamy? I hadn't thought of it that way before.. Bestiality is just creepy - I can't imagine they'd get 5 people to support them, much less 5%.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#8 Jun 8, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
CCC
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
I know many lonely gay people who chose this path. They never accepted their homosexuality, instead, they pretend to have no sexuality.

Isn't a gay person who doesn't have sex still a gay person? Gay people can be accepted into the Catholic Church so long as they stay sexually inactive?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#9 Jun 8, 2013
So you've hit a line about what goes on inside of us before it becomes real -

The issue is rejecting who they were created to be (male or female) to desire that which they are not? And it isn't really just a Christian issue - all the worlds greatest religions have sanctioned marriage, haven't they? Some middle-east countries hang/kill people for the 'crime' of homosexuality, so to pretend it's only us intolerant 'christians' shows the lack of sight some have:-)

And being the perpetual 'Jesus supporter', I think His saying 'From the beginning it hath not been so,' fits the topic.

So can you tell me when man stopped accepting this is truth and rejected both religion and reality?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#10 Jun 8, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I know many lonely gay people who chose this path. They never accepted their homosexuality, instead, they pretend to have no sexuality.
Isn't a gay person who doesn't have sex still a gay person? Gay people can be accepted into the Catholic Church so long as they stay sexually inactive?
Of course. The Church has said same sex attraction is not a sin. If one commits the sexual act outside of marriage, nobody who you are, it is a sin. Those people who have don't perform the sexual act means they are living a chaste life which is a holy thing in the CC. Chasity is a virtue.
However because of the Laws of Nature, a marriage between same sex attracted people cannot naturally create children, it is not considered a valid marriage.
Anonymous

Mead, OK

#11 Jun 8, 2013
It is stated very plainly in the Bible that this activity is unrighteous. There is nothing to be confused about or to be "misinterpreted."

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.(I Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#12 Jun 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
So you've hit a line about what goes on inside of us before it becomes real -
The issue is rejecting who they were created to be (male or female) to desire that which they are not? And it isn't really just a Christian issue - all the worlds greatest religions have sanctioned marriage, haven't they? Some middle-east countries hang/kill people for the 'crime' of homosexuality, so to pretend it's only us intolerant 'christians' shows the lack of sight some have:-)
And being the perpetual 'Jesus supporter', I think His saying 'From the beginning it hath not been so,' fits the topic.
So can you tell me when man stopped accepting this is truth and rejected both religion and reality?
People do not choose their sexual interests. Heterosexual people should imagine denying their sexual urges to know how gay people must feel about denying theirs. When a heterosexual wants to satisfy these urges, the Bible allows that person to marry and then have sex. The only Christian solution to satisfy gay urges is to ignore it and hope it goes away. This is torture. Would you give up sexual activity to please God?

You are suggesting that a person with a male body who is attracted to a male is denying who he was born to be: a male who is attracted to females. I suggest that a man who is attracted to a man IS being true to himself - he was created to be a gay man. To deny his true sexuality is to live in denial - that's cruel. Stop expecting people to do this.

Let's explore a rare, but existing, condition of the people born gender non-specific. A person born with both male and female sex organs or a person born with no sex organs. Or a person with genitalia of one sex and the inner workings of the opposite sex. What sexual orientation are these people SUPPOSED to have - how can they be determined to have one gender or the other? Are these people exactly how they were created to be? Did God mess up? Some countries designate a third gender for people such as these.

If a gay person wants to follow God's laws - couldn't that person have a sex change and then be legally heterosexual?

I suggest that gay and trans-gendered people are such a minority, they have never before gained the respect needed to be recognized and acknowledged. Even now, they have only been successful because of support from heterosexual people. Just because something hasn't happened before, does not mean that it will never happen.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#13 Jun 9, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. The Church has said same sex attraction is not a sin. If one commits the sexual act outside of marriage, nobody who you are, it is a sin. Those people who have don't perform the sexual act means they are living a chaste life which is a holy thing in the CC. Chasity is a virtue.
However because of the Laws of Nature, a marriage between same sex attracted people cannot naturally create children, it is not considered a valid marriage.
There are many marriages that do not produce children - are those marriages valid? If it is known that one or both partners cannot produce children, are they still entitled to have sex? If a couple deliberately renders one or both partners unable to reproduce, do they still get to have sex? If a couple chooses not to have sex, even though they are married, are they not fulfilling their obligations by not trying to produce children?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#14 Jun 9, 2013
Anonymous wrote:
It is stated very plainly in the Bible that this activity is unrighteous. There is nothing to be confused about or to be "misinterpreted."
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.(I Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)
unless they are forgiven
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#15 Jun 9, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
People do not choose their sexual interests. Heterosexual people should imagine denying their sexual urges to know how gay people must feel about denying theirs. When a heterosexual wants to satisfy these urges, the Bible allows that person to marry and then have sex. The only Christian solution to satisfy gay urges is to ignore it and hope it goes away. This is torture. Would you give up sexual activity to please God?
You are suggesting that a person with a male body who is attracted to a male is denying who he was born to be: a male who is attracted to females. I suggest that a man who is attracted to a man IS being true to himself - he was created to be a gay man. To deny his true sexuality is to live in denial - that's cruel. Stop expecting people to do this.
Let's explore a rare, but existing, condition of the people born gender non-specific. A person born with both male and female sex organs or a person born with no sex organs. Or a person with genitalia of one sex and the inner workings of the opposite sex. What sexual orientation are these people SUPPOSED to have - how can they be determined to have one gender or the other? Are these people exactly how they were created to be? Did God mess up? Some countries designate a third gender for people such as these.
If a gay person wants to follow God's laws - couldn't that person have a sex change and then be legally heterosexual?
I suggest that gay and trans-gendered people are such a minority, they have never before gained the respect needed to be recognized and acknowledged. Even now, they have only been successful because of support from heterosexual people. Just because something hasn't happened before, does not mean that it will never happen.
You're contradicting yourself if you say you have no choice in what you desire - that one has no choice:-) Natures law.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#16 Jun 9, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many marriages that do not produce children - are those marriages valid? If it is known that one or both partners cannot produce children, are they still entitled to have sex? If a couple deliberately renders one or both partners unable to reproduce, do they still get to have sex? If a couple chooses not to have sex, even though they are married, are they not fulfilling their obligations by not trying to produce children?
Intentional sterility is a mortal sin according to the CC. A man and woman who cannot have children because of something beyond their control of course can have sex. I know personally of 2 couple who had 'miracle' babies in their forties after they had adapted.
Anonymous

Mead, OK

#17 Jun 9, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>unless they are forgiven
In order to be forgiven they would have to repent and turn from their evil ways? You can't continually live in sin and expect to be forgiven.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#18 Jun 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
You're contradicting yourself if you say you have no choice in what you desire - that one has no choice:-) Natures law.
Not true, Barnsweb. Desiring something comes naturally - some refer to it as temptation - would you agree that people do not choose what they are tempted by?

You are saying that people have a choice as to being gay or just being straight. I suggest that a gay person in a heterosexual relationship is pursuing the desires of OTHER people in an effort to be accepted. It's unfair to the actual heterosexual person - the spouse should be the person who is desired - if your spouse pines over other people, men or women, then you are being betrayed. It is a misconception to think that heterosexual sex will satisfy gay sexual urges - it is only a substitution for that person's true desires.

Here is a discussion about a gay man who is happily married to a woman, has children, and is passionate and faithful to his religion. This couple seems very happy, but I bet the number of women happy to be married to gay men must be very few. I would suggest that this issue will become more important as this couple realizes just how long "forever" is and that they are only so happy because they are so young.

Dave P

Lexington, KY

#19 Jun 9, 2013
ASM: Desiring something comes naturally - some refer to it as temptation - would you agree that people do not choose what they are tempted by?

Dave- I agree that some desires do come naturally. And generally people cannot choose what they are tempted by. BUT BUT BUT- they can choose whether or not to give in to that temptation. And desire and temptation are not necessarily the same thing.

ASM: You are saying that people have a choice as to being gay or just being straight.

Dave: Many of them do. Many simply do choose to engage in homosexual behavior. Seen several examples personally. Many homosexuals have willingly stopped engaging in homosexual behavior.

ASM: It's unfair to the actual heterosexual person - the spouse should be the person who is desired - if your spouse pines over other people, men or women, then you are being betrayed.

Dave: Maybe it is unfair. But who is to blame? Personal responsibility. One can blame society all they want. But if someone is marrying someone of the opposite sex simply to "be accepted", don't make the society at large out to be the bad guy. The homosexual person could have simply not married. Especially if heterosexual sex doesn't fulfill urges.

Since the beginning of time homosexuality has not been deemed socially acceptable. Homosexual marriage has not been allowed anywhere until recently. Islam will never- NEVER- accept it. But yet society is being asked and TOLD that thousands of years of belief and practice must be changed for "fairness", acceptance, and so all can have the opportunity to fulfill their urges?

This country was founded on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are not guaranteed happiness- just the opportunity to pursue it. And homosexual behavior is something no government has ever considered embracing.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#20 Jun 9, 2013
We all get so hung up on the idea that "we can't help how we feel, our sexual preferences, etc". But do we forget that up until just a few centuries ago many if not most marriages were arranged by the parents?

How many of those people learned how to love someone they hadn't met possibly? Or someone they hadn't "fell in love with" first?

And yet now we must believe that people "can't help" themselves?

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