House OKs payday lending caps

[Lydia]

The way I see it is, if this bill passes, then the 6000+ out of work pdl employees and the many thousands and thousands of Ohioans who no longer have the right to choose a payday loan or not, will use their last remaining right to choose come election day.

[michelle cincinnati oh]

Lets get serious, everyones pointing the finger at
the wrong people. What we really need to be
concentrating on is praying for the six unknown religious leaders and the Catholic Conference
who encouraged Ohio Voters to support this House
Bill to be enacted.
I will lose my job, but so what, I am more so
concerned about the american consumers right of
freedom to have a choice to make their own decision of payday lending.

[Jimmy]

The only difference between a Payday loan businesses and a loan shark is that a loan shark only breaks your kneecaps when you don't pay them back. The credit attack that the Payday loan businesses do is devastating to those people who actually care to try to get ahead in life. That causes a mess for people in major affect and the Payday loan companies know it. So, while I sympathize with those who may lose their jobs and that it's not your fault that most of the people you deal with are financially illiterate, you are choosing to deal with people who can't seem to help themselves. It was only a matter of time before local government felt they needed to step in. And while I also agree that it's wrong for the government to intervene, what did you expect? We’ve allowed a government to be voted in that prides themselves on social programs and higher taxes to pay for them. The people who are borrowing this money love to cry foul when they don’t get their way and complain when it’s not handed to them free of charge. The Payday loan companies take advantage of people who can barely afford to survive KNOWING what the probable outcome will be. It only promotes further desperation in these people when they realize, albeit too late, that they’ve dug themselves even deeper than before they walked in the door. The only good thing that I’ve seen come of the Payday loan businesses is that when I see one, I know I’ve made a wrong turn because somehow I’ve managed to find my way into a bad part of town.

[Sandy]

I think the banks are behind the whole thing...think of all the money they've lost in overdraft fees when people have the convenience of a pdl! Why isn't the government checking into the banking policies and fees? I use my atm card constantly... unfortunately I made an error in adding...by the time the bank notified me (through the mail) I had 21 overdrawn withdrawals!!! That was a total of $630.00 for four days...where was the government then??? Not one person from that bank could even call me and inform me there was a problem with my account!!! I'd also like to know why this wasn't put to a vote??? Is this just the beginning of government making decisions for us? What's next??? How many cars I'm allowed to own according to my income?And if they are soooo worried about citizens being taken advantage of...and the financial strain we're under...don't you think a much larger issue would be the GAS PRICES rather than the pdl's????

[IndigoMoon]

Actually, the banks are not losing money due to "lost over-draft fees". When a payday loan customer does not buyback (pay off the loan) their check when they are supposed to, the payday loan store will deposit the check whereby creating the overdraft fees that the payday loan customer was trying to avoid in the first place.

About 75% of the job is collections because they (payday loan establishments) actually EXPECT a very large percentage of their customers to default on the loan.

This is a business model that fosters disaster for its customers. The payday loan industry refused to police itself. They left the government no choice but to do it for them.

[Darla]

IndigoMoon wrote:

Actually, the banks are not losing money due to "lost over-draft fees". When a payday loan customer does not buyback (pay off the loan) their check when they are supposed to, the payday loan store will deposit the check whereby creating the overdraft fees that the payday loan customer was trying to avoid in the first place.
About 75% of the job is collections because they (payday loan establishments) actually EXPECT a very large percentage of their customers to default on the loan.
This is a business model that fosters disaster for its customers. The payday loan industry refused to police itself. They left the government no choice but to do it for them.

..I work for a pay day lending company. I'm not sure if you have ever used our service before but if you have, you would know that you are required to sign a stamp on the back of your check that states that if you do not pick up your checks they will be deposited in to your bank account. If you haven't used our service then you are really in no place to state your opinion becuase you know nothing about it.

Our customers come to us because they have no where else to turn. It is not the governments place to tell them what they can do with their money.

As for saying that we "refused to police our self"..who do you think set the amounts for the fee's we charge and how much people were allowed to borrow? It was the same people who are now taking it back.

Every place that you would ever borrow money from would require you to pay them back that money plus the fee. In most cases the fee that you are paying back is not the problem. It's the money that you borrowed in the first place. It wouldn't matter if we kept charging 15 dollars per hundred or if we went to 1 dollar per hundred. It's not the fee that's the problem. It's that hundred dollars thats trapping them. And that's NOT our fault.

The worst part about this isn't the 6000+ people who will be out of jobs, it's not the fact that our customers will have no where else to turn, or the fact that foreclosure and bankruptcy rates will be through the roof, its that our customers came to us because they owed someone else and couldn't pay THEM. Maybe it was becuase thier mortgage rate sky rocketed or the price of gas did. Maybe they forgot about a check going through and were going to over draw their account by a few dollars and it made more sence to them to pay 15 and borrow 100 then 40 becuase of their account would be going negative 10 bucks.

I'm not sure who in their right mind would think that banning our industry is going to be helpful to the economy. I think there could have been something else that could have been done to better regulate the industry and not completely rule out this option.

[IndigoMoon]

Darla, I was a manager for both Advance America and National Cash Advance (Advance America's sister company) collectively for about a year. The store manager. Not an assistant. Prior to that, I had 15+ years experience managing upscale restaurants and hotels. I left hospitality management due to health reasons.

I was drawn to PDL's because of the work schedule and health insurance benefits. I left because my conscience could no longer handle what we were doing. I was working again within a month of leaving. The job that I now do does makes a different. I do not hurt anyone. Quite to the contrary, my time is spent fighting for people’s rights.

Here is your barometer: When your friends, family, etc ask what you do for a living and you tell them; what is their reaction?

Do not try to make this about the people losing jobs. This is solely based on an industry that cares nothing about anything or anyone other than their own bottom line. Keep those numbers up. You are expected to keep your held checks high and your bad checks low. If in fact you do work in the industry, you know exactly what I am talking about.

I know how to run a successful business. The real question is, does this business truly help or hurt people? Just how much time in any given day do you spend on the phone chasing down people who owe you money? How many times in one week do you run to the bank to collect on an NSF check before another PDL gets their first or even worse, the customer gets to it first? If John Q. Customer does not have (or needs an extra)$400 the day he comes in for that loan, what are the chances that he will have it and not need it in two weeks?

It is not who we are that defines us.
It is what we do that defines who we are.

[IndigoMoon]

Darla wrote:

<quoted text>
The worst part about this isn't the 6000+ people who will be out of jobs, it's not the fact that our customers will have no where else to turn, or the fact that foreclosure and bankruptcy rates will be through the roof, its that our customers came to us because they owed someone else and couldn't pay THEM.

And that means it is ok for you to make them believe that you taking $75 out of their $600 paycheck because they borrowed $500 is better than them having their whole paycheck? Who needs that $150 more every month?(Based on turning that check 2 times a month) Does your company need it more or does that customer who turned to you in desperation? Desperate people do not think clearly. The PDL business knows that and uses it to their advantage.

That $75 could very well be the difference between food on the table or seeking out yet another company to get a loan from. It could be the connection between gas and work. It could be the bridge that keeps them from foreclosure or eviction.

Did you ever once tell a repeat customer to just borrow $50 less every time they come in so they could get out of the pit?

Darla, you chose the wrong person to assume anything about.

[IndigoMoon]

Support Governor Strickland. We, as his constituents, deserve to have our voices heard. Go to: http://apps.das.ohio.gov/govpublic/contact.as... . Ask him to pass 545. Your legislators need to hear from you. They need to hear your side of the story.

Tell him your stories. Tell him why you went to a PDL company and what happened as a result. Did you end up with NSF fees at your bank anyway? Tell him. Did you take out a second loan because of the first one? Tell him. Did the payday loan company call you daily, as well as all of your personal referrals? Tell him. Did the payday loan company come to your place of work or residence looking for you? Tell him. Did they call your place of employment? Tell him. Did you file bankruptcy or have your wages garnished because of payday loans? Tell him.

Will telling your story be hard? Probably. Will it make a difference? Definitely.

Get angry at the way they took advantage of you and stripped away your dignity.

Get angry. Stay angry. Fight for your rights.

Make it personal. Make him understand. Tell him why we would be better off without these businesses sucking the very life out of us. Tell him why the business regulation is necessary. Tell him to set an example for the entire country. The PDL industry has held the people hostage long enough. We figured out how to manage before payday loans. We will remember how to do without them. Now is our time to fight back. Now it is our turn to win.

[AppleJack]

A lot has been said in these threads - much of it only partial information to make one's point and further their agenda. For the sake of keeping things in perspective, please review the following summary.

According to industry analysts, the average customer obtains 11 loans per year. Many consumers greatly exceed the average. In addition to rolling over loans with one company, many persons obtain concurrent loans with two or more companies. Independent studies show some borrowers get loans from as many as eight to ten payday lenders at once, and roll them over for more than a year.

If the lender charges $15 per $100, or a 390% annual percentage rate, a borrower who has 10 rollovers or refinances on a $500 loan will pay a total of $800 in interest to have the use of $500 for 4 months -- and still owe the $500 principal...!!

A substantial number of borrowers (20-25%) will not be able to repay the loans as agreed. If a payday lender claims a lower incidence of default, it is often because it is failing to take into account the effect of refinancings. Because of the high incidence of rollovers, it is not appropriate to divide the number of defaults by the total number of loans and rollovers; if the average customer gets 11 loans and rollovers per year, doing that understates the default rate tenfold.

"payday lending" is very profitable. A study by the State of Tennessee shows that the return on equity that payday lenders enjoy exceeds 30%, which is about three times the national average (9%) for banking and industrial firms.

[Hulagirl]

IndigoMoon wrote:

<quoted text>
And that means it is ok for you to make them believe that you taking $75 out of their $600 paycheck because they borrowed $500 is better than them having their whole paycheck? Who needs that $150 more every month?(Based on turning that check 2 times a month) Does your company need it more or does that customer who turned to you in desperation? Desperate people do not think clearly. The PDL business knows that and uses it to their advantage.
That $75 could very well be the difference between food on the table or seeking out yet another company to get a loan from. It could be the connection between gas and work. It could be the bridge that keeps them from foreclosure or eviction.
Did you ever once tell a repeat customer to just borrow $50 less every time they come in so they could get out of the pit?
Darla, you chose the wrong person to assume anything about.

uhm....no we don't tell people to borrow 50 dollars less each time because we are not credit counselors and it's not my business to advise them. Did you tell them that when you worked there? Hah.
If a customer asks how they can get out of it, or makes a snide comment about how it's my fault they are here you can bet your sweet bippy i tell them how to get out of it.
besides, it's not rocket science. We cannot protect people from birth to death. The government is treating the customers like children. They are protecting some Ohioans but not others. its inconsistent.
let's just give everyone a million dollars and everyone will stop complaining....

[tdmac]

why should someone let their checks return? I have a loan out to a place right now and because of some money problems I have asked them for an extention and they said no now what?

luz wrote:

As a former employee of one of these types of places, i have some advice.
Everyone who is crying about being trapped.
there is a lot of ways to get out of this cycle, you just have to find them instead of waiting for someone to offer you the solution.
but here is some advice
1. instead of blowing your huge tax return on a new diamond ring (yes someone i know) and a vacation, why not use it to catch up on your cycle of debt. This way NEXT year you can keep your tax return. Most of you who are complaining have atleast 2 kids. I read one post in particular of someone who had 2 kids and wasnt married so in MOST cases those types of people get huuuuge tax returns.(yes i know you all did NOT blow your tax return but face it, someone out there whining RIGHT now certainly did)
2. Call the place that you are trapped with. I know there is ONE atleast in particular that is very understanding. They will always offer you some type of solution as LONG as it does not go against any pay day laws.
3. Every CFSA store has an extended payment plan!(look for the label on their windows)(epp) ASK ABOUT IT! It is a huge pain in the butt for employees, but it's their jobs and they will do it if you just ASK!
4. Let your checks return to the place. You will incur most likely some additional fees. probably less than 50 dollars. If you're nice, the collectors will 99% of the time give you the benefit of the doubt. tons of people make payments. You can borrow again after you paid off if you need to at most places.(This may not be the best choice for everyone but for some it could be the ONLY option, especially if you already borrowed AGAIN after already using the one per year epp)
5. Oh yes, that stimulus rebate everyone is so greedily waiting on. Guess what, you've already "spent" that money so to speak when you got yourself trapped. Take advantage of the bone that was thrown to you and pay off for good.
6. borrow 50 dollars less each time
7. Don't flip flop between spouses borrowing on the same income
8. Don't borrow what you qualify for, borrow what you NEED. Bare minimum. that might mean not going out to eat this weekend. Eventually you will be glad you made that choice.
Those are my suggestions. I know some of you realize how your cycle happened, but some don't and I want to make sure people wake up and see there are options..
So instead of putting these people out of jobs, which can only make things WORSE for everyone, FIX your problem.:)

[TAMEKA EADY]

HIPPHORRAY THEY NEED TO BE CLOSING PLEASE START WITH LOANSMART WHO IS SUEING ME THANK-YOU CONGRESS I GUESS THEY WONT BE SUING NOBODY ELSE

[Appraisit]

AppleJack wrote:

A lot has been said in these threads - much of it only partial information to make one's point and further their agenda. For the sake of keeping things in perspective, please review the following summary.
According to industry analysts, the average customer obtains 11 loans per year. Many consumers greatly exceed the average. In addition to rolling over loans with one company, many persons obtain concurrent loans with two or more companies. Independent studies show some borrowers get loans from as many as eight to ten payday lenders at once, and roll them over for more than a year.
If the lender charges $15 per $100, or a 390% annual percentage rate, a borrower who has 10 rollovers or refinances on a $500 loan will pay a total of $800 in interest to have the use of $500 for 4 months -- and still owe the $500 principal...!!
A substantial number of borrowers (20-25%) will not be able to repay the loans as agreed. If a payday lender claims a lower incidence of default, it is often because it is failing to take into account the effect of refinancings. Because of the high incidence of rollovers, it is not appropriate to divide the number of defaults by the total number of loans and rollovers; if the average customer gets 11 loans and rollovers per year, doing that understates the default rate tenfold.
"payday lending" is very profitable. A study by the State of Tennessee shows that the return on equity that payday lenders enjoy exceeds 30%, which is about three times the national average (9%) for banking and industrial firms.

Wow, the statistics provided show a significant # of those people who borrow don't understand the cost nor the trap....it is these folks who need protected from themselves, just because they can sign thier name doesn't mean they understand the cost ! Just because you can drive 100 mph on the highway, doesn't mean you should be allowed ...danger to yourself and others !

[luz]

tdmac wrote:

why should someone let their checks return? I have a loan out to a place right now and because of some money problems I have asked them for an extention and they said no now what?<quoted text>

i think your question was answered in the post you quoted. if you cannot make the payment and they will not give you an extension, then let them return. they have no choice but to wait until the money is in your account for most places. its not a great idea but for those who are whining about how to get out, its an option none the less.....

[Joseph]

indigo, i am in almost the same situation as you decribed. i was in the food business for 25+ years. i fell at work and had to leave because i can't stand for more than 5-10 minutes at a time. i worked for 2 different national payday loan places and was very successful.i hit every bonus that came along. i did feel sorry for customers and helped a lot of them get out slowly. i prayed to God every day to get meout, now he has..i am sticking around so i can have benifits, but he has opened new doors for me. i just wish i could have done it on my own...

[Darla]

IndigoMoon wrote:

<quoted text>
And that means it is ok for you to make them believe that you taking $75 out of their $600 paycheck because they borrowed $500 is better than them having their whole paycheck? Who needs that $150 more every month?(Based on turning that check 2 times a month) Does your company need it more or does that customer who turned to you in desperation? Desperate people do not think clearly. The PDL business knows that and uses it to their advantage.
That $75 could very well be the difference between food on the table or seeking out yet another company to get a loan from. It could be the connection between gas and work. It could be the bridge that keeps them from foreclosure or eviction.
Did you ever once tell a repeat customer to just borrow $50 less every time they come in so they could get out of the pit?
Darla, you chose the wrong person to assume anything about.

okay..1. so we charged them $150 that month but I think you forgot to mention that they also borrowed $1000. Put it like that and it doesnt seem quite so bad now does it.

and 2. Yes, I have told many customers taht the key to it is borrowing 50 less each time. It's their choice weather they listen to me or not. And maybe they needed that 50 dollars..maybe it was "the difference between food on the table or seeking out yet another company to get a loan from. It could be the connection between gas and work. It could be the bridge that keeps them from foreclosure or eviction."

YOU chose the wrong person to assume anything about.:-)

[luz]

TAMEKA EADY wrote:

HIPPHORRAY THEY NEED TO BE CLOSING PLEASE START WITH LOANSMART WHO IS SUEING ME THANK-YOU CONGRESS I GUESS THEY WONT BE SUING NOBODY ELSE

That's pretty funny. Guess you're mad they got you huh. it's a shame they forced that loan on you! shame on them.

[Darla]

TAMEKA EADY wrote:

HIPPHORRAY THEY NEED TO BE CLOSING PLEASE START WITH LOANSMART WHO IS SUEING ME THANK-YOU CONGRESS I GUESS THEY WONT BE SUING NOBODY ELSE

Why is it that people think they shouldn't have to pay this money back?! We are Payday LENDERS..NOT Payday GIVERS. Since when do people get to borrow money and not have to pay it back? If you didn't pay the lender back you should be sued. Isn't that what would happen with anyone else you borrowed money from? Duh.

[BANK CUSTOMER]

I agree with Cynic. The banks should definitely be investigated for their fees. It is without a doubt predatory lending practices. My bank charges 39.00 and has done it for a $1.00 and the $1.00 was a service fee for checking the balance on my account more than 3x in one month. Last month I deposited a check from one of my client's from another bank (but the bank was local) and they held it till the next day (24 hrs)and applied $117.00 for an "unavailable funds fee." This month I deposited another check for a different client but from the same bank (First Merit) and it was applied directly to my account. Checks cleared and no fees were applied for "unavailable funds." I can understand the hold policy for checks or funds out of state. But come on this day in age with all the technology. Even the grocery store or Marc's has the tecnology to see if the funds for a check are available. So, what's my bank's excuse? Well, guess where I got the funds for the $117.00 overdraft? And it is the first time I have used a cash advance establishment. I am still fighting with my bank to put the fees back. Predatory lending you bet. By the way the bank I am speaking of is Charterone.