Save Hatteras and Ocracoke Island

[gso mafia]

I along with my ten or 15 fishing friends visit Ocracoke once a week each year. We spend several thousand dollars during this week on housing, fishing eating, etc. We are not alone many many goups do this especially during the winter. If there is no open access to the beach (which is the sole reason I have a 4 wheel drive vehicle) I will not go nor will my friends nor will the majority of other fishing groups. No one with money to spend will drive 8 to 12 hours from greensboro or points west to walk to the beach. It wont happen. We chose to go to Ocracoke because of the beach and the access. I can fish off the beach in Florida with the same or less drive. Many groups will do just that and the money will flow in other directions. Most people will not drive many hours to see Ocracoke village without access to the beach. No one that I know or have seen during our many annual fishing trips has ever done anything other than be respectful of the local environment and wildlife. We drive where we are supposed to follow the rules. Most people do this

[Granganimeo]

I am a 12th generation native of Hatteras Island. American Indian. The Point, where they want to close access to people on foot as well as ORV's was once sacred ground. It was called Panawakii--where two oceans collide. It is how the geological formation of the island formed from the Gulf Stream and Labrador smashing into eachother to deposit sand. My family had 900 acres stolen by the Park Service and we never saw a dime. This happened to many native families. The plover bird is not native to the island and most nest on the dredge islands not the point. This has nothing to do with the birds it is just another land grab.

12 generatons we have gone to the point. It is where I learned to swim. I want my daughters to enjoy the sacred ground of their ancestors and enjoy the beauty of the point. It is the only place left in Buxton for the public..those not renting a mansion to go to the beach.

Twilight you have no idea what this means to the people of the island. They closed it once before and business went down 57%. It is easy to say so what when YOU don't live here. It is not a part of your heritage. My daughters will never see the point where the ceramonies to Krivassa were held, at Panawakii the point.
It is not just a place to fish. Some of us have been here for 2,000 years. What about our rights? Has the US not stolen enough?

[ilemme]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/story...

[DNTIV]

Wow. Granganimeo, can't put it any better than that. That is an interesting insight to the area and its history. You are right, the plover bird is not native to the island. So now they have all the rights and we don't. My friends and I have been visting the OBX for years. We spend thousands upon thousands there each year. Just for the escape. The ability to drive on the beaches, and pick our spot to sit back and forget the rest of the world. We never trash, nor disrespect the beaches or any marked nesting grounds. If we spotted someone doing so. I would pitty the outcome for them. This is a place that means a lot to us, our families, and our friends. None of which would come to the OBX anymore if the beaches are closed to orv's. We do not care to walk a country mile to get to the ocean.

[Camping Visitor]

Seems to me that one less pooping sea gull would be a good thing.......(sorry, I had to say that!).
Pea Island & other more remote sites (the MIDDLE of Ocracoke Island for example) should be fine for the birds. Also, could it possibly be that all of the condos being built on the beach is the REAL problem---NOT the families and fishermen who drive on the beach??
Also, do you think that the tree huggers will put our horrific gypsy moths on their protection list if someone figures out how to get rid of them????
Amazing--instead of money being used by the National Park Service to keep these wonderful treasures, the money is being wasted dealing with these nuts...Pooping birds 1; National Parks 0.

[twilight]

Granganimeo wrote:

I am a 12th generation native of Hatteras Island. American Indian. The Point, where they want to close access to people on foot as well as ORV's was once sacred ground. It was called Panawakii--where two oceans collide. It is how the geological formation of the island formed from the Gulf Stream and Labrador smashing into eachother to deposit sand. My family had 900 acres stolen by the Park Service and we never saw a dime. This happened to many native families. The plover bird is not native to the island and most nest on the dredge islands not the point. This has nothing to do with the birds it is just another land grab.
12 generatons we have gone to the point. It is where I learned to swim. I want my daughters to enjoy the sacred ground of their ancestors and enjoy the beauty of the point. It is the only place left in Buxton for the public..those not renting a mansion to go to the beach.
Twilight you have no idea what this means to the people of the island. They closed it once before and business went down 57%. It is easy to say so what when YOU don't live here. It is not a part of your heritage. My daughters will never see the point where the ceramonies to Krivassa were held, at Panawakii the point.
It is not just a place to fish. Some of us have been here for 2,000 years. What about our rights? Has the US not stolen enough?

Let me ask you this....When they wanted to drill offshore, were you against that?

[an Islander]

people like twilight don't have a clue! Have you ever even been here? Where would you have us park? There isn't much parking here. And do you suppose people will come if they can't even find a park to get to the beach? And do you realize for every nest/bird it gets a 1/2mile distance completely around it. And if it moves where people have already set up, they have to be evacuated immediately! And do you realize on the old Nags Head mall, there are tons of plovers nesting there? It is flat, no grass and no predators. Do you realize that the most popular swimming, fishing, surfing and shell collecting and most beautiful spots will be completely ban from people. When it says banned from orv use, it is from people use too! Go to www.savehatteras.com read the articles, look at the maps. Read the article on April 16, 2007 (which was a misprint, it should have been 2008) It was from the Former Senior Manager-EPA. He explains the impact accurately. If anyone should know what the deal is, he should. It was his job. The one thing he said that really bothered me was that these extremists have not provided any scientific data to prove what they are claiming. The citizens were not allowed to give any of their concerns and the impact of the economy was never even mentioned in the settlement. As he said this is an outrage! Please know all the facts before you decide to be an expert on the matter!

[twilight]

an Islander wrote:

people like twilight don't have a clue! Have you ever even been here? Where would you have us park? There isn't much parking here. And do you suppose people will come if they can't even find a park to get to the beach? And do you realize for every nest/bird it gets a 1/2mile distance completely around it. And if it moves where people have already set up, they have to be evacuated immediately! And do you realize on the old Nags Head mall, there are tons of plovers nesting there? It is flat, no grass and no predators. Do you realize that the most popular swimming, fishing, surfing and shell collecting and most beautiful spots will be completely ban from people. When it says banned from orv use, it is from people use too! Go to www.savehatteras.com read the articles, look at the maps. Read the article on April 16, 2007 (which was a misprint, it should have been 2008) It was from the Former Senior Manager-EPA. He explains the impact accurately. If anyone should know what the deal is, he should. It was his job. The one thing he said that really bothered me was that these extremists have not provided any scientific data to prove what they are claiming. The citizens were not allowed to give any of their concerns and the impact of the economy was never even mentioned in the settlement. As he said this is an outrage! Please know all the facts before you decide to be an expert on the matter!

Yes, I live in KDH and went down south Friday, actually for a hike on Pea Island with my husband and kids.
Where people should park is the National Park Services issue! Don't you understand? If they would have put a plan in place this could have all been avoided but they chose to ignore it and this is what it has come to.
There is plenty of proof. Visit the Audobon's website and the Defender's of Wildlife.
According to an assessment by the PARK SERVICE, the beach driving restrictions needed to safeguard wildlife would impact less than 5 percent of the seashore’s visitors. Economic impacts from the restrictions are projected to be less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the nearly $2 billion that tourism brings to the region (0.05 to 0.08 percent according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s 2007 economic analysis). Restrictions won’t keep people from visiting and enjoying the beaches of Cape Hatteras.

[tommy from va]

my wife loves birds. we have bird houses all over our back yard. she has been coming to the outer banks for 40 years. we are very respectful of the bird lines on the beaches as i am sure most fisherman are. we have been coming to hatteras for the past 25 years together ( the last 4 years staying at the national park campground in ocracoke ). i know its no big deal to some if we dont come down this year, but we usually spend about $ 1, 000 - $ 2,000 for a week of fun. add that up to the thousands of people who come down each year for a great vacation. guess i will have to spend my hard earned money on a virginia river house. sorry ocracoke, but if i cant fish, i aint coming.

[concerned]

tommy from va wrote:

my wife loves birds. we have bird houses all over our back yard. she has been coming to the outer banks for 40 years. we are very respectful of the bird lines on the beaches as i am sure most fisherman are. we have been coming to hatteras for the past 25 years together ( the last 4 years staying at the national park campground in ocracoke ). i know its no big deal to some if we dont come down this year, but we usually spend about $ 1, 000 -$ 2,000 for a week of fun. add that up to the thousands of people who come down each year for a great vacation. guess i will have to spend my hard earned money on a virginia river house. sorry ocracoke, but if i cant fish, i aint coming.

I think most people/families are just like yours. They come to she shore with good intentions, spend hard earned money and enjoy the freedoms. The thing that is bothersome is that even you could run over one of these birds or a nest and not even know it. It's really sad. I don't think anyone wants to stop you from fishing or enjoying the shore.
They have not completely closed the beaches, only certain areas.(I think) Does anyone have any more information on the story?

[mike pawley]

If you want to save the bird population exterminate the cat population. The problem is not habitat it is preadtors dummy.

[mike]

The cat feral cat population has exploded on Ocacroke Island since I started going there in 1980.
The problem is not driving on the beach and habitat, it is the predator cats.

They need to be exterminated. Let's have a rally and cat roundup.

Get reall you village idiots.

[smnfrisco]

Everything comes to an end just as the dinasaurs have. If it is meant for the birds, turtles...whatever to end it will. The last time I looked, the beach was eroded that it looked like it was coming to an end! We all should be thankful for those visitors that respect the land and pray to god that those visitors that destroy the dunes, trash the beaches, kill the wildlife and tear hell out of the bird nests just fall off the face of the earth! Come on you visitors who tear up the island! Would you want us in NC to come to your neighborhood and destroy your lawn or trash your roads?
I am thankful good people visit OUR beaches in NC. The economy would really be hurt. But the BAD ones...please stay home. And u locals that are rude to visitors, JUST REMEMBER...U ARE IN BUSINESS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE VISITING!!!!

[smnfrisco]

[Stay in Va if you don't like the cats!

[Doug]

eofavonnc wrote:

i have seen people pull up to the nesting areas and then drive right through them i have watched people walk through the roped off areas where birds nest and tell you its not a closed area new laws who will enforce them no one enforces the laws on the beaches now you can get drunk act a fool and tear up the beach with your driving but not enough park rangers if all vistors to the beaches respected it may not have come to this

WOW ! How does one understand this ....statement. I guess you would call this a run on paragraph. I don't even know what side of this debate you're on ? What the hell are you TRYING to say because nobody.....well I certainly don't understand your horrible grammar. You're not talking you fu(king idiot, you're WRITING. Please try to make SOME sense next time you post a comment. Thank you and good luck.

[Pam]

You are insane or stupid if you think that the driving restriction are not going to affect the number of tourist willing to come there and spend thier money.I nor my siblings come and stay in one of those mansons ,but we still pay alot to come to the beach.The whole point of going to the beaches to fish,swim,crab,shell hunting, or just enjoy what god has given us, is because you can drive on the beach .Not lug everthing w/ kids a mile down the road.After my first trip to your beach ,i was in love.We went back home to Va.bch. and bought a 4x4 just so we could have access to the beach and made it so much easier and possible with our young children and elderly parents.My father who served this country will not be able to set foot in ocean water again.He is to old and unstable to stand in the ocean side so we would drive him up to the sound and we could guide him in give him a chair and he was in his glory.[sorry dad the non native birds have more rights than a man that dedicated his life to our country]

[st sq]

My family extended; has been coming to Ocracoke since the early fifties twice yearly to rent a house and surf fish the island. I have had the privilege to be a part of that since the late sixties. No doubt the area has been through some changes; but they have been good ones compared to other areas. I remember the wildlife and fishing as always being enjoyable. Some species have declined and then rebounded. Others have become abundant and gone through periods of decline. You know from my humble perspective that seems the way of nature through out the world. No doubt man can impact things in a positive or negative fashion. But Ocracoke is one of the places that seems to be able to co exist with our intrusions and remain a vital area. I say keep the beaches open and give the service responsible an enforcable time table and the resources to do their job!! Mans' attempts at nature study and control seem to fall way short in understanding. Our families have paid great personal costs to maintain our freedoms. Let us enjoy them......

[Ocaracoke Fan]

I fail to see where there is evidence that the decline in bird numbers is directly related to driving on the beach.
Without tracing each individual and locating their new nesting site or finding their corpse, how can the knee jerk reaction of "it's the driving on the beach" be determined for causing the decline.
My family & I went to Ocracoke in 2006 and there was plenty of park ranger control over where you could drive on the southern point at that time. There were rangers on the beach every day that we were there, either watching the nesting sites, patrolling the beach or just having a presence. I think this was before the lawsuit was served and I would in no way call this inaction on their part! Not to mention there were plainly marked areas that you were obviously not supposed to drive.
Any living thing that depends on the necessities of life being provided by nature is prone to decline due to a huge array of catalysts and hurdles. Nature is not a nurturing, caring mother all the time. Look at the natural disasters over the last 9 years. Hurricanes could easily have helped wipe out migratory species in a location not even close to the OBX and
much more throughly than some drunk kids in a 4x4 could ever do. I would expect the Audobon society to have a better grasp of those influences.
I'm also curious as to the mention of the feral cat populations down there - how much time/$ has the audobon society spent looking into that possibility and other predation vs. what was needed to bring about this highly contentious lawsuit?

[smnfrisco]

mike wrote:

The cat feral cat population has exploded on Ocacroke Island since I started going there in 1980.
The problem is not driving on the beach and habitat, it is the predator cats.
They need to be exterminated. Let's have a rally and cat roundup.
Get reall you village idiots.

you sound like the real idiot!

[smnfrisco]

mike wrote:

The cat feral cat population has exploded on Ocacroke Island since I started going there in 1980.
The problem is not driving on the beach and habitat, it is the predator cats.
They need to be exterminated. Let's have a rally and cat roundup.
Get reall you village idiots.

Like I said...stay in VA if you don't like the cats!