Aussie restlessness echoes in U.S.

[Moiz Qidwai]

Wailakum Assalam Mr. Johnson

"Charismatic" personality need not necessarily be a prophet, if that is what you mean. Many Bold leaders with good intentions have been able to mould the minds of their people and achieve significant results.

But as you said, for that situation to arise, people have to get first "Fed Up" with the current climate of hate, mistrust and violence.

Right now it is the co-called "Terrorists" on both side that are having a field day.

Let us hope for the change of climate in near future.

Have a nice day and peace of mind.

[Moiz Qidwai]

To: Madam Dee

You are absolutely right My Dear Sister!!

To believe in a Universal God for all humans, to believe in continuation of same religion thru out ages,(irrespective of differences in language, race, nation or Ethnic Background) To respect all prophets, to respect all revealed books and to believe in innocence of all prophet are the "Tell Tale" Signs of a closed and bigoted mind.

In the same way to ask other people to follow teachings of their prophet and not teachings of any one else (unless it conforms to the teachings of their prophets) is another "Confirmatory" sign of a closed and bigoted mind.

I am not surprised, when definition of every thing is reversed in the world, if you consider myself as "Of Closed Mind" and biased, it is only natural. In a world where people justify Homosexuality as a "Natural Trend", exposure of women body as "Her rights to display what is hers" and increase in crime rates as "Natural consequences of Material Progress"; it is not surprising if you call me a "Closed Mind Person". In fact these are real appreciations from you and I am happy to get them.

Now let us come back to our topic

1. Our prophet had the same right to know truth about what Jesus said, as Moses had to know about what Adam, Noah and Abraham said. Both had access to the real source of knowledge, Revelation!!! Knowledge obtained thru revelation is superior to all other sources of knowledge.

3. If the prophet heard and admired poetry as festivals of OKAZ festivals, it does not mean that Quran is based on those poetries. The style of Quran is totally different from any type of poetry existing in the world. All poets of Arabia (of that age and following that age) have expressed their inability to match Quranic style. The works of IMRUL QAIS are existing today, ask any Arab as to difference between them and Quran.

I think it is better to consider a man as innocent than try to prove him guilty, if you have insufficient proofs. If you can prove that any of the OT books were written by any eye witness, then It would do a great service to Biblical studies. What you have is guess work and in these matters guess work is not helpful. We at least are on safer track as we believe in innocence of all prophets.

I can only say that our prophet knew teachings of Jesus better than St. Paul did!!!

[dee]

If you're up for some paranoid superstitious nonsense, read this. Sounds a lot like our friend Moiz.

"2008 Update: Saudi Arabia’s Curriculum of Intolerance
http://www.hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/textbo...

Selected Quotes: 2007-2008 Textbooks of the Saudi Ministry of Education

*“The Jews and Christians are enemies of the believers, and they cannot approve of Muslims.”

*“The clash between this [Muslim] nation and the Jews and Christians has endured, and it will continue as long as God wills.”

*“He (praised is He) prohibits killing the soul that God has forbidden [to kill] unless for just cause…[such as] unbelief after belief, adultery, and killing an inviolable believer intentionally.”

*“Major polytheism makes blood and wealth permissible.”

*“The punishment for homosexuality is death.”…
“Ibn Qudamah said,‘The companions of the Prophet were unanimous on killing, although they differed in the description, that is, in the manner of killing. Some of the companions of the Prophet stated that [a homosexual] is to be burned with fire. It has also been said that he should be stoned, or thrown from a high place. Other things have also been said.”

*“As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus.”

*“The decisive proof of the veracity of the Protocols [of the Elders of Zion] and the infernal Jewish plans they contain is that the plans, plots, and conspiracies they list have been carried out. Whoever reads the protocols – and they emerged in the 19th century – will realize today how much of what they described has been implemented.”

*“You can hardly find an example of sedition in which the Jews have not played a role.”

*“The new approach to the crusades took several forms, including … the establishment of schools. They founded many schools in the Islamic world at various educational levels. These include: the American Universities of Beirut and Cairo, the Jesuit University, Robert College in Istanbul, Gordon [Memorial] College in Khartoum, and others too numerous to mention.”

*“[Baha’ism] is one of the destructive esoteric sects in the modern age… It has become clear that Babism [the precursor to Baha’ism], Baha’ism, and Qadyanism [Ahmadiyyaism] represent wayward forces inside the Islamic world that seek to strike from within and weaken it. They are colonial pillars in our Islamic countries and among the true obstacles to a renaissance.”

*“Lesson goals: The student notes some of the Jews’ condemnable qualities”

blah blah blah.

[JepJep]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

I think it is better to consider a man as innocent than try to prove him guilty

well you see in australia... america... and practically most of the western world thats how it goes in criminal trials. Whereas i am pretty sure it's the opposite there.

[dee]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

To: Madam Dee
You are absolutely right My Dear Sister!!
To believe in a Universal God for all humans, to believe in continuation of same religion thru out ages,(irrespective of differences in language, race, nation or Ethnic Background) To respect all prophets, to respect all revealed books and to believe in innocence of all prophet are the "Tell Tale" Signs of a closed and bigoted mind.
In the same way to ask other people to follow teachings of their prophet and not teachings of any one else (unless it conforms to the teachings of their prophets) is another "Confirmatory" sign of a closed and bigoted mind.
I am not surprised, when definition of every thing is reversed in the world, if you consider myself as "Of Closed Mind" and biased, it is only natural. In a world where people justify Homosexuality as a "Natural Trend", exposure of women body as "Her rights to display what is hers" and increase in crime rates as "Natural consequences of Material Progress"; it is not surprising if you call me a "Closed Mind Person". In fact these are real appreciations from you and I am happy to get them.
Now let us come back to our topic
1. Our prophet had the same right to know truth about what Jesus said, as Moses had to know about what Adam, Noah and Abraham said. Both had access to the real source of knowledge, Revelation!!! Knowledge obtained thru revelation is superior to all other sources of knowledge.
3. If the prophet heard and admired poetry as festivals of OKAZ festivals, it does not mean that Quran is based on those poetries. The style of Quran is totally different from any type of poetry existing in the world. All poets of Arabia (of that age and following that age) have expressed their inability to match Quranic style. The works of IMRUL QAIS are existing today, ask any Arab as to difference between them and Quran.
I think it is better to consider a man as innocent than try to prove him guilty, if you have insufficient proofs. If you can prove that any of the OT books were written by any eye witness, then It would do a great service to Biblical studies. What you have is guess work and in these matters guess work is not helpful. We at least are on safer track as we believe in innocence of all prophets.
I can only say that our prophet knew teachings of Jesus better than St. Paul did!!!

MUQ: "Tell Tale" Signs of a closed and bigoted mind."

You are misrepresenting yourself, as always. You have made it abundantly clear that you have no respect for anything that doesn't fit in with Muslim beliefs. Or should I say - you regard Islam as 100% right and every other belief or value as 'wrong'. If that isn't a sure sign of a closed mind, I don't know what is.

MUQ: "where people justify Homosexuality as a "Natural Trend"

People don't have a choice in their sexuality, homosexuals of both sexes are usually born that way and realise it from an early age. How do you suggest homosexuals should be treated? Deprived of their civil rights? Discriminated against professionally? Disowned by their families? Imprisoned? Hanged? Stoned? How would you treat your own son, if he turned out to be a homosexual?

MUQ: "exposure of women body as "Her rights to display what is hers"

Every human being owns his/her own body. It's unfortunate if some women choose to display too much of their bodies publicly, but that's their choice and they get to live with the consequences.

MUQ: "increase in crime rates as "Natural consequences of Material Progress"

Who said this? There are many reasons for an increase in crime, I don't believe that material progess is on the list.

[Moiz Qidwai]

To; Madam Dee

If Islam is right and reasonable, why should I consider it defective? In our discussions I gave you Islamic position on every issue and it is seen that Islamic position is no where against reason and harmful to the society.

It is Islam’s tolerance that it considers all other religions and their leaders with respect and never uses any harsh words against them. Despite all this, its is branded with intolerance. If that is the standard you follow, then I do not mind being called intolerant and with closed mind.

That is another misconception, which is being spread that people have no control over their sexuality, they are born like that. Homosexuality is a kind of sexual perversion and like any perversion it should be dealt accordingly. It is a crime against society and crime against nature. Its punishment should be like any such crime.

You asked what I would do if my son turn into a homosexual, the same if he turns into a drug addict or turns into an alcoholic or any such perversion. In a normal upbringing, it is unlikely that germs of homosexuality would find atmosphere to grow. They would remain hidden in the ground level. But in the Western society, where you treat them as “Normal” this perversion will grow till it overwhelms the entire society.

In the same way, you are down playing over exposure of women body. This is one of the reason of increase in crime rates against women, but in your reverse logic, every moral issue is of no consequences. The results as I indicated are in front of you, but you would like to ignore them.

Yes there are many reasons for increase in crime rates, and crime against women and increase in domestic violence and believe me, this attitude to downplay moral issues is the prime reason for that.

[Gottaliv]

MQ: "You asked what I would do if my son turn into a homosexual, the same if he turns into a drug addict or turns into an alcoholic or any such perversion."

Drug addiction and alcoholism are caused by actual drug abuse. There is no drug that causes homosexuality so cannot be classified in the same
bracket.

MQ: "That is another misconception, which is being spread that people have no control over their sexuality, they are born like that.

What medical/psychiatric qualifications do you have to make that assumption?

MQ: "In the same way, you are down playing over exposure of women body. This is one of the reason of increase in crime rates against women..."

In your opinion. In my opinion it is the excuse used by men to justify their debase behaviour and to place the blame where it does not belong.

[Dee]

MUQ: "If Islam is right and reasonable, why should I consider it defective"

No religion that treats the female half of its followers as mental retards and/or breeding cattle could be either right or reasonable. Matter of opinion.

MUQ:“Homosexuality is a kind of sexual perversion “

Perhaps, but homosexuality has been part of every culture in history including Islamic culture. The Sultan Mehmed II was openly homosexual.

In fact, homosexuality is mentioned in the Quran. Along with the verses forbidding it, we find these:

“… round about them will serve, devoted to them, young male servants handsome as pearls …” Q. 52:24

“youths of perpetual freshness’– Q. 56:17

Sounds very much like male houris provided for those who prefer 'youths' to females.

Homosexuality was positively praised and glorified by Abu Newas in his famous poem ‘The Perfumed garden’.

MUQ: "and like any perversion it should be dealt accordingly"

How? Imprisonment? Hanging? Stoning? You didn’t specify. Homosexuality has nothing whatsoever in common with drug addiction etc., a person's sexuality is not a crime, as any educated person should know. It’s interesting to hear that you would treat your own son like a criminal - we call that attitude 'intolerance'. Now maybe you see why non-Muslims hold such a low opinion of Islam. If God created us all, He also created homosexuals.

MUQ: "In a normal upbringing, it is unlikely that germs of homosexuality would find atmosphere to grow"

Homosexuals do not catch their sexuality like a virus.

[Dee]

CONT:

MUQ:“This is one of the reason of increase in crime rates against women, but in your reverse logic, every moral issue is of no consequences."

Wearing the clothes of ones choice is not a 'moral issue', neither is it responsible for rape. If that were so, rape would be non-existent in the Muslim world and we know that isn’t so.

Some women may endanger themselves by drinking or dressing inappropriately, but generally, women are not to blame for attracting a rapist, the crime is the choice of the rapist alone. I notice you don’t mention ‘moral issues’ in connection with the rapist, you blame the victim – that’s what I call ‘reverse logic’.

MUQ:“crime against women”

Rape and domestic violence also exist in Muslim countries – recently I posted a report from Egypt about the mass sexual assault of young (covered-up) women in Cairo on Eid. No comments about this? They live in an Islamic country, the girls were chaperoned and shrouded, yet these men still sexually assaulted them, acting like feral animals. According to the girls interviewed, there are huge problems with women’s safety. Please explain how this could happen in a ‘moral’ Islamic country.

MUQ:“increase in domestic violence”

Domestic violence has existed in every society in history. Western society is possibly the only one to enact laws against it. It is also a problem in Muslim countries, and since there are no specific laws against it, most of it goes unreported. A recent UN report claims that 25% of Syrian women have been beaten.

Violence against women is endemic in Pakistan – a 1987 study (by the Women's Division) and another study by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan in 1996 suggested that domestic violence takes place in approximately 80% of households - beatings, sexual violence or torture, mutilation, acid attacks and burning the victim alive.

According to the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences (2002) over 90% of married women surveyed reported being kicked, slapped, beaten or sexually abused when husbands were dissatisfied by their cooking or cleaning, or when the women had ‘failed’ to bear a child or had given birth to a girl instead of a boy – obviously they are too ignorant to know that the male determines the sex of a baby.

Domestic violence is also widespread in Saudi Arabia. Accurate stats, are of course, unavailable,

“Saudi Arabia establishes first center for domestic violence in Makkah
http://www.saudiembassy.net/2005News/News/Oth...

Saudi Arabia inaugurated its first center for domestic violence in Makkah Wednesday as part of a campaign to combat domestic abuse, reports Asharq Al-Awsat."

So being a young child or spending your life indoors covered up from head to foot obviously doesn’t save you from rape or domestic violence in Saudi Arabia.

Foreign women, such as those from the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, etc are especially vulnerable because they are unmarried or living without their husbands, they are subject to accusations of "illegal pregnancy," witchcraft, or being in any public place, especially at night, where they may be assumed to be soliciting for prostitution.

At the same time, domestic workers are always vulnerable to sexual exploitation and other abuse by their Saudi employers, there have been several cases of rape and ill treatment.

So don’t preach to us about the wonders of Islam. We know better. I feel safer here in Australia than I would feel in any Muslim country.

[Moiz Qidwai]

Gottaliv wrote:

MQ: "You asked what I would do if my son turn into a homosexual, the same if he turns into a drug addict or turns into an alcoholic or any such perversion."
Drug addiction and alcoholism are caused by actual drug abuse. There is no drug that causes homosexuality so cannot be classified in the same
bracket.
MQ: "That is another misconception, which is being spread that people have no control over their sexuality, they are born like that.
What medical/psychiatric qualifications do you have to make that assumption?
MQ: "In the same way, you are down playing over exposure of women body. This is one of the reason of increase in crime rates against women..."
In your opinion. In my opinion it is the excuse used by men to justify their debase behaviour and to place the blame where it does not belong.

Homosexuality is nothing but a sexual perversion. Your society wants to preserve and protect all types of perversion and that is why they give warped logic about protecting and preserving Homosexuality.

The "drug" which you "feed by Media" that Homosexuals are normal, helps increase the diseases in many persons, who could otherwise have gotten over their perversion. Wait and watch to see majority of your population effected with that virus.

Yes, you would like to change human nature, where men would look at women's exposed body and would think of nothing. If your experiments are successful, your men and women would roam naked on the streets and no one would look at them.

That is the logical result of going back to Nature. According to you "Our Common Ancestors" 150 Million ago never used clothes, why should we?

[Moiz Qidwai]

Dee wrote:

MUQ: "If Islam is right and reasonable, why should I consider it defective"
No religion that treats the female half of its followers as mental retards and/or breeding cattle could be either right or reasonable. Matter of opinion.
...

I have not much to comment about your post, except where you have tried to prove homosexuality from Quran. That as a woman, that too a grown up women with grown up children of your own, can think of such dirty filthy scenario is beyond my imagination. May be it is the result of the homosexual environment in which you are living, that brings such dirty situations to your mind.

The scene described in Quran is of paradise, which is the place of all bliss. Men are sitting with their friend and enjoying conversations, there are fruits and drinks of every variety. Children are moving around with trays of food and drinks and for any errand. This scene is applicable to any eastern civilized gathering. Even if man is sitting with their wives, slightly grown up children are used for small errands. That is why Quran uses phrase, Children which shall always remain children, from where you have derived homosexuality into this is beyond my imaginations. All Homosexuals would already been sorted out before they even reach paradise. That is not the place of evil.

The way you give justification and support to homosexuality, it seems that you not only approve of it, but consider it necessary for the society.

The punishment for homosexuality is like for any other perversion. The law is law, your or my son is my problem. If your son becomes a murderer, a terrorists or a robber, your love is another thing, but law will take its course. We are dealing with law and not domestic issues.

I never said that Muslims are angels and in Muslim countries there is no crime. I an only talking about Islamic Laws, that these laws are safeguard against any kind of perversion and injustice.

If you apply Islamic laws in truth and spirit in any community, it would become safer and healthier. Your society is based on wrong perceptions; its fruits are that what we have indicated.

I can only compare it, like Islamic society is like a garden, there are and there will be some weeds, but the weeds are continuously pruned, so that they do not overwhelm the garden. Your society is like you are growing flowers and weeds at the same time. You are giving them equal nourishment, in such a situation; very soon, weeds would overwhelm the garden. It is only a matter of time.

[Kazzi]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

<quoted text>
Homosexuality is nothing but a sexual perversion. Your society wants to preserve and protect all types of perversion and that is why they give warped logic about protecting and preserving Homosexuality.
The "drug" which you "feed by Media" that Homosexuals are normal, helps increase the diseases in many persons, who could otherwise have gotten over their perversion. Wait and watch to see majority of your population effected with that virus.
Yes, you would like to change human nature, where men would look at women's exposed body and would think of nothing. If your experiments are successful, your men and women would roam naked on the streets and no one would look at them.
That is the logical result of going back to Nature. According to you "Our Common Ancestors" 150 Million ago never used clothes, why should we?

The Sin of Shame, apparently.

What experiments are you talking about? I didn't see a suggestion of going back to nudity, did you?

[SUPERIOR AUSSIE]

Does your god control everything that happens?
Did he create everything?
Moiz?

[Dee]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

<quoted text>
I have not much to comment about your post, except where you have tried to prove homosexuality from Quran. That as a woman, that too a grown up women with grown up children of your own, can think of such dirty filthy scenario is beyond my imagination. May be it is the result of the homosexual environment in which you are living, that brings such dirty situations to your mind.
The scene described in Quran is of paradise, which is the place of all bliss. Men are sitting with their friend and enjoying conversations, there are fruits and drinks of every variety. Children are moving around with trays of food and drinks and for any errand. This scene is applicable to any eastern civilized gathering. Even if man is sitting with their wives, slightly grown up children are used for small errands. That is why Quran uses phrase, Children which shall always remain children, from where you have derived homosexuality into this is beyond my imaginations. All Homosexuals would already been sorted out before they even reach paradise. That is not the place of evil.
The way you give justification and support to homosexuality, it seems that you not only approve of it, but consider it necessary for the society.
The punishment for homosexuality is like for any other perversion. The law is law, your or my son is my problem. If your son becomes a murderer, a terrorists or a robber, your love is another thing, but law will take its course. We are dealing with law and not domestic issues.
I never said that Muslims are angels and in Muslim countries there is no crime. I an only talking about Islamic Laws, that these laws are safeguard against any kind of perversion and injustice.
If you apply Islamic laws in truth and spirit in any community, it would become safer and healthier. Your society is based on wrong perceptions; its fruits are that what we have indicated.
I can only compare it, like Islamic society is like a garden, there are and there will be some weeds, but the weeds are continuously pruned, so that they do not overwhelm the garden. Your society is like you are growing flowers and weeds at the same time. You are giving them equal nourishment, in such a situation; very soon, weeds would overwhelm the garden. It is only a matter of time.

MUQ: "Men are sitting with their friend and enjoying conversations"

Oh really? No man I know would describe 'youths' as 'like pearls' etc. Wake up - homsexuality is widespread in the Muslims world. Always has been.

MUQ: "All Homosexuals would already been sorted out before they even reach paradise."

Then why were they created in the first place?

MUQ: "May be it is the result of the homosexual environment in which you are living"

You are an idiot. You have not the slightest clue about the environment I live in. I can't be bothered with your ignorant medieval nonsense.

[Dee]

Kazzi wrote:

<quoted text>
The Sin of Shame, apparently.
What experiments are you talking about? I didn't see a suggestion of going back to nudity, did you?

Is this guy slightly crazy?'Preserving homosexuality', LOL - better we should round them up and hang them, huh, even if one is your own son. Or stone them - even better - before they infect others with the 'virus' of being gay. Surely, most Western males should be homosexuals by now, if this 'virus' is so catching.

'Nudity'- he thinks everyone lives like Paris Hilton. They must believe that silly soapies are real life. The Bold and the Beautiful R us.

God save us from this backwardness and blatant ignorance.

[JepJep]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

<quoted text>

the fact that the bibles says we are all created in the image of God, and the exact way he wants us to be created shows the truth that God created homosexuals.
When i have kids, if one of them turned out to be lesbian or gay, i wouldn't hate or want them to die, God even says we are all created in his image, and it's not their fault, all the scientific prrof says that we cannot choose our sexual preference, and the fatc that you see homosexuality to be a sin disgusts me.

"I never said that Muslims are angels and in Muslim countries there is no crime. I an only talking about Islamic Laws, that these laws are safeguard against any kind of perversion and injustice."

well you seem to talk as if Islamic laws are the best in the world and have to faults... despite the fact that they truly don't work as they discriminate and do everything laws are not meant to do, and you say, they also do not prevent perversion and injustice.

"If you apply Islamic laws in truth and spirit in any community, it would become safer and healthier. Your society is based on wrong perceptions; its fruits are that what we have indicated."

Well our societies tend to be a lot safer, tolerant, happier and generally wealtheir money wise and spiritually wise. If our society is based on wrong perceptions, God wouldn't havelet us discover the millions and millions of inventions that the world bases living on today. Also our society has produced many of millions of great people who work for others selflessly for their benefit and for the benefit of communities and countries alike. The catholic church, the orthodox church and many other protestant churches were the frist to build free health facilities for the poor, were the first to have free education for the poor, the first to have asylums for the homeless and many other things which shows that fact that many christians, and many people of other religions give and give without the thought of return. Have you heard of the Salvation Army? St Vincent de Paul Society? Caritas? etc? I do not say that there aren't people in islam who do the same things, but i don't think that you should discredit us as evil despite the fact it is Islam which remains largely inact when it voices it's opinions of the poor, homeless, mentally retarded, sick, diseased, etc. etc.

"I can only compare it, like Islamic society is like a garden, there are and there will be some weeds, but the weeds are continuously pruned, so that they do not overwhelm the garden. Your society is like you are growing flowers and weeds at the same time. You are giving them equal nourishment, in such a situation; very soon, weeds would overwhelm the garden. It is only a matter of time."

and that just shows that fact how blind you are of the world outisde of saudi arabia, or infact the world inside saudi arabia and the islamic world.

[Dee]

MUQ:“The way you give justification and support to homosexuality, it seems that you not only approve of it, but consider it necessary for the society.”

Silly comments like this one is the reason I lose patience with you. I have never said that I approve of homosexuality or ‘consider it necessary’– but it seems that God may consider it necessary, since he created homosexuals along with the rest of us. Every culture in history has had a small percentage of homosexuals, this will never change, but if a man is not a homosexual, nothing can change that, he cannot catch the virus of homoseuality or decide one day to change his preference.

Because I don’t wish to see my fellow human beings imprisoned or hanged for something beyond their control, doesn’t mean that I approve of it. In my view, homosexuality should be accepted (because it is a part of humanity and has always been), but not promoted or favoured. I would not like it one bit if my son were homosexual, but I would accept it because I love him.

You seem to be very ignorant on the subject, so here are a few truths:

1. homosexuals come from all kinds of homes and backgrounds, mainly ‘normal’.

2. they do not wake up one morning and decide to become homosexuals, it appears to be inborn and something they discover later when they realise they are not attracted to the opposite sex.

3. people in the West still disown or refuse to accept their children for being homosexual and believe that it can be ‘cured’. It can’t.

MUQ:“If your son becomes a murderer, a terrorists or a robber,”

Homosexuality does not equate with murder, terrorism or theft. These are crimes which people can decide to commit. They have no say in their sexual bias.

I can only conclude that you have never lived in a western country, your views of life in the West are completely distorted and unreal.

[Gottaliv]

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

<quoted text>
I can only compare it, like Islamic society is like a garden, there are and there will be some weeds, but the weeds are continuously pruned, so that they do not overwhelm the garden. Your society is like you are growing flowers and weeds at the same time. You are giving them equal nourishment, in such a situation; very soon, weeds would overwhelm the garden. It is only a matter of time.

In keeping with your analogy of 'garden, weeds, flowers and people'...

It is a well know fact that when some things are imported from other countries they can contain hidden diseases and pests foreign to our land, which have the capabilities of destroying our land and our people. This is why we have quarantine regulations.

Perhaps not enough restrictions were put on importing these "weeds" you talk about, and it's time now to stop 'nurturing' them equally and to start culling them, so they do not take over our "garden" in the future.

[MUQ]

Dee wrote:

<quoted text>
MUQ: "Men are sitting with their friend and enjoying conversations"
Oh really? No man I know would describe 'youths' as 'like pearls' etc. Wake up - homsexuality is widespread in the Muslims world. Always has been.
MUQ: "All Homosexuals would already been sorted out before they even reach paradise."
Then why were they created in the first place?
MUQ: "May be it is the result of the homosexual environment in which you are living"
You are an idiot. You have not the slightest clue about the environment I live in. I can't be bothered with your ignorant medieval nonsense.

That is what happens when you translate from one language to another. The similes and finer point of idioms are lost. The simile of small boys moving around as "Pearls Dispersed" is of highest order in Arabic language, if you are not familiar then it is your problem.

Then your insinuation that God created some people as Homosexuals is misplaced. God did not create them as Homosexual, they themselves fell into that perversion because of their own choice and temptation of Satan. There is no blame with God for their perversion.

May be our knowledge to your culture is derived from Sitcoms and Hollywood films. But your knowledge of our culture is also based on media reports and novels, films and things you read. We both are equally ignorant of each other's culture (Even though we pretend to be "Experts" on each other culture).

My comments seem to hurt you very much, but have you reflected about your comments about our culture, our religion and our prophet? Hurt is a two way street my dear Sister.

We have done enough bickering about each other. Let us get back to our main discussion.

Note: I have shortened my name from Moiz Qidwai to MUQ

[Bob]

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text>

We have done enough bickering about each other. Let us get back to our main discussion.
MUQ

Aussie restlessness echoes in U.S.?
Or trying to twist the bible into the quran