Electric car for the masses

[Say the Truth]

Anathema wrote:

<quoted text>
If you can afford the initial cost, you should consider a geo-exchange system.
It's basically a heat pump connected to a set of buried pipes, which exploits the constant temperature underground.
It's the same concept as an air conditioner - it pumps the ambient heat, using compression and expansion of water, from the ground to your forced-air system.
After the initial install, the only cost is running the compressor, and most people see at least a 50% decrease in their energy costs for heating.
As an added benefit, any geo-exchange system also works in reverse, as a central air system.
There are two ways of installing, based on the amount of property you have and the local geography.
1. Horizontal: the pipes are laid in a grid under your lawn
2. Vertical: the pipes are installed in hiles drilled straight down to the depths of a typical well.
I have a co-worker that installed one and he pays about 1/3 of what he paid with an oil furnace.

What's the limitation on temperature delta between outside (ambient) and the range of available indoor temperature control? In other words, will it heat a house to say 70 deg on a 10 deg day or cool it to 68 on a 100 deg day? What's the overall capacity vs. square footage? you may still need to supplement the system in some way, particulary in the 'heat' mode. How does it handle multiple zones?

[Fairness]

Anathema wrote:

<quoted text>
If you can afford the initial cost, you should consider a geo-exchange system.
It's basically a heat pump connected to a set of buried pipes, which exploits the constant temperature underground.
It's the same concept as an air conditioner - it pumps the ambient heat, using compression and expansion of water, from the ground to your forced-air system.
After the initial install, the only cost is running the compressor, and most people see at least a 50% decrease in their energy costs for heating.
As an added benefit, any geo-exchange system also works in reverse, as a central air system.
There are two ways of installing, based on the amount of property you have and the local geography.
1. Horizontal: the pipes are laid in a grid under your lawn
2. Vertical: the pipes are installed in hiles drilled straight down to the depths of a typical well.
I have a co-worker that installed one and he pays about 1/3 of what he paid with an oil furnace.

There is also a cost to run the water pump...
However, they are quite alot more efficient than normal systems.
The main drawback is the price, I believe it takes between 5-8 years to offset the initial price. After that though, it's money in the bank...

[WiseOne]

Fairness wrote:

<quoted text>
There is also a cost to run the water pump...
However, they are quite alot more efficient than normal systems.
The main drawback is the price, I believe it takes between 5-8 years to offset the initial price. After that though, it's money in the bank...

Excellent, as long as you don't get foreclosed on before that!

[Fairness]

WiseOne wrote:

<quoted text> Excellent, as long as you don't get foreclosed on before that!

LOL ;>)

[Anathema]

Say the Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
What's the limitation on temperature delta between outside (ambient) and the range of available indoor temperature control? In other words, will it heat a house to say 70 deg on a 10 deg day or cool it to 68 on a 100 deg day? What's the overall capacity vs. square footage? you may still need to supplement the system in some way, particulary in the 'heat' mode. How does it handle multiple zones?

I know this is Wikipedia, but it's pretty concise, and you can easily corroborate this with google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_excha...
Since you are using the Earth as a heat source in winter, or heat sink in summer, there is an almost unlimited capacity for heating or cooling.
A well insulated house should not require any supplemental systems.
I'm not sure how it handles zones, but I assume it works the same as any single furnace forced air system, by using dampers to direct the flow where it's needed.

[Foveator]

I've had a geothermal heat pump heating and cooling my house for the past 12 years.
Heatings costs are equivilent to about oil at $1.50 per gallon and coolings costs are about 70% less than a typical electric central air system.

No kiddling.

Go to www.geoexchange.org for more info.

[Unique Golf Cars]

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[Question]

I want a Smart Car!

[Smart Car]

Question wrote:

I want a Smart Car!

I want smart drivers!

[SNJ]

Perhaps the smartest of you want the best public transport system in the world? Just imagine the resistance from your car industry and oil companies!

[OKAY]

SNJ wrote:

Perhaps the smartest of you want the best public transport system in the world? Just imagine the resistance from your car industry and oil companies!

Americans don't like mass transit. We like to sit in our air conditioned SUVs with our stereos at full blast, while we talk on our cell phones!

[Say the Truth]

Mass transit can only work in dense metropolitan areas. Like a lot of western Europe.

[Say What]

I grew up in a family of five with my dad driving a VW. Mom & dad in front, 3 kids in back. Suitcases in front in the trunk. We went from Chicago to LA every summer to visit relatives, and would stop a various places along the way stay in a hotel, and swim in the pool.

Today, I drive a sports car. I have no problem with going on a trip with my husband. Enough cargo space for a couple of small bags. We also have a Scion XB for when we do need more room, and have his kids.

One can still be energy efficient and have a life and a family. As for those who say what about SUV or 18 wheelers hitting you? What about it? Dead is dead. If you go to Europe, where gas has been high for along time, you will see that most people drive manual transmission, small cars. There are still tractor trailers on the roads, but very few SUVs. People just can't afford the gas, or prfer to spend their money on something other than gas.

As for the cold and salt air issues. The car is already being used in Norway. It gets pretty cold there, and also has salty air. It doesn't seem to be a problem.

My husband's job commute is 20 miles each way. This Think car is perfect for that.

I agree with the poster that said that the good thing about gas going up so much is that it will force us to look for alternatives. As for public transportation, I wish we had good transportation here. If we had light rails between the seven cities, I'd sure take it.

lab-rat wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I appreciate your opinion, but seeing you have no kids, I'm of a mind to say that you aren't particularly qualified to comment.
To tell the truth, I drive a car that is extremely uncomfortable to fit more than two people in. Since I drive by myself 95% of the time, it could be argued that I only need a car with one seat in it.
Now if I go to the store, I'm screwed driving the one seated car, right?
All that aside, most people that drive SUVs don't even live in Florida, they live up north where it snows. There you have a whole different argument for driving them.

[John I Q]

bmartin wrote:

If you really want to fix the gas problem...do a sweep of all the illegal cars on the road....no insurance, no registration, no drivers license......tow the car...give the culprit 60 days to get things in order or lose the car.....this will take at least 25% of the cars in Dade and Broward off the road........

And how does this solve the high prices we pay at the pumps? This would only partially solve the traffic problem.."Maybe" but it is not the solution to the problem presented by high cost of fuel.

[John I Q]

OKAY wrote:

<quoted text> Americans don't like mass transit. We like to sit in our air conditioned SUVs with our stereos at full blast, while we talk on our cell phones!

Not for the many who lives in the San Francisco/Bay area or New York. People there not only hates paying for the high prices at the pumps but also the high price of parking their cars. Maybe that could be the solution for this problem.... no more free parking.

[Walther]

I'll drive one when Al Gore and the "greenies" give up their cars and stop flying on private jets! Remember, this is what happened in Soviet Russia - the "proletariat" had to make do with lining up for potatos and taking mass transit while the "party bosses" rode around in limos!

[Obvious]

The new "plug in hybrids" will solve the gas price crisis quickly. You can drive a 60 mile round trip using no gasoline at all, which is more than enough for most daily commutes!

[uh-yeah]

John I Q wrote:

<quoted text>
And how does this solve the high prices we pay at the pumps? This would only partially solve the traffic problem.."Maybe" but it is not the solution to the problem presented by high cost of fuel.

Less cars = less demand for gas = lowers prices

That is an economic fact.

[lab-rat]

Obvious wrote:

The new "plug in hybrids" will solve the gas price crisis quickly. You can drive a 60 mile round trip using no gasoline at all, which is more than enough for most daily commutes!

Depending, of course, on how your electricity is generated.

[Obvious]

lab-rat wrote:

<quoted text>
Depending, of course, on how your electricity is generated.

It will cost less per mile regardless of the source.