“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33511 Dec 22, 2013
there wrote:
<quoted text>
Well General, I'm against raising taxes if that is what you are implying.....I want to hear your words of what will happen when the PCE drops........not the fairtax words......
I want to hear you say that you approve of raising taxes..........
Taxes can be raised, or lowered, as needed. This applies to The Fair Tax, as well as the current system, as well as your idea of business paying all taxes. BTW, where would business get the money from to pay all taxes?
2010OverMoveOn

United States

#33512 Dec 22, 2013
2010 is over, move on.
It's Georgia so it had to be a Republican. Therefore we the people lose, again.
Turn the page.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#33513 Dec 22, 2013
there wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Bill, I knew this. The website explains it..........perhaps you can give some details when the Fed gubmint has reduced spending without going into debt in place of raising taxes......BTW, I am for a balanced budget amendment, although that will never come out of congress........
And please tell us what will happen when the FICA goes away.....I know what the website says about the 7.5% of individual contributions, I want to know about the 7.5% company contributions.......what tax limit upon the individual, if any, are the fair tax proponents willing to go too in order to protect the rich and the companies they run..........
Also please tell why you think the tariffs and excise taxes wouldn't work.....I do know the same dip in revenue can result from tariffs and excise taxes as they can from a reduced PCE....
As of yet the General hasn't told us in his own words what will happen when the PCE takes a hit, he just refers me to the website....I know what the website says, I just wanna hear it from those who support the fairtax....although you have stated it here..........
Again, being a conservative I'm against raising taxes of any kind, I am for a reduced bloated federal budget and wasteful spending.....if individuals are expected to live within their means, so should gubmint..........
"Well Bill, I knew this."

You apparently didn't understand it.

"perhaps you can give some details when the Fed gubmint has reduced spending without going into debt in place of raising taxes"

Why? Apples and oranges, not relevant to the discussion at hand.

"BTW, I am for a balanced budget amendment, although that will never come out of congress"

So am I. The FairTax will likely never come out of Congress, either.

"And please tell us what will happen when the FICA goes away.....I know what the website says about the 7.5% of individual contributions, I want to know about the 7.5% company contributions"

1. The FICA tax is not 7.5%. Why do you think it is?

2. The FairTax would replace federal income taxes.

"The website explains it."

Read the book(s), at least the ones Boortz has authored, he says it in plain language.

"Again, being a conservative I'm against raising taxes of any kind, I am for a reduced bloated federal budget and wasteful spending.....if individuals are expected to live within their means, so should gubmint."

Me, too. You're preaching to the choir.

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33514 Dec 22, 2013
2010OverMoveOn wrote:
2010 is over, move on.
It's Georgia so it had to be a Republican. Therefore we the people lose, again.
Turn the page.
Paul Broun 2014.

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33515 Dec 22, 2013
So, at this point in the discussion:
1) The rich pay more taxes, any way you measure it, including POI.
2) Most would agree the current tax system is out of whack.
3) The Fair Tax is one option being discussed here.
4) Business responsibility alone to ay all taxes is another.
5) Paul Broun is the only one being mentioned for Saxby's Senate seat.
gubmint

Clarkesville, GA

#33516 Dec 22, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
"Well Bill, I knew this."
You apparently didn't understand it.
"perhaps you can give some details when the Fed gubmint has reduced spending without going into debt in place of raising taxes"
Why? Apples and oranges, not relevant to the discussion at hand.
"BTW, I am for a balanced budget amendment, although that will never come out of congress"
So am I. The FairTax will likely never come out of Congress, either.
"And please tell us what will happen when the FICA goes away.....I know what the website says about the 7.5% of individual contributions, I want to know about the 7.5% company contributions"
1. The FICA tax is not 7.5%. Why do you think it is?
2. The FairTax would replace federal income taxes.
"The website explains it."
Read the book(s), at least the ones Boortz has authored, he says it in plain language.
"Again, being a conservative I'm against raising taxes of any kind, I am for a reduced bloated federal budget and wasteful spending.....if individuals are expected to live within their means, so should gubmint."
Me, too. You're preaching to the choir.
The arrogant ass from Wal-Mart dodges all the questions again. At least the little fellow is consistent.

I just wish he could explain how individuals live within their means when we as people are carrying record debt, just like gubmint.
the truth

Clarkesville, GA

#33517 Dec 22, 2013
General Robert E Lee wrote:
So, at this point in the discussion:
1) The rich pay more taxes, any way you measure it, including POI.
2) Most would agree the current tax system is out of whack.
3) The Fair Tax is one option being discussed here.
4) Business responsibility alone to ay all taxes is another.
5) Paul Broun is the only one being mentioned for Saxby's Senate seat.
1. I would like your source on the percentage of income point, cause you are wrong again or using numbers after all the write offs and deductions that only the rich can use. That includes the ability to use the capital gains tax almost exclusively, the middle class can't do that.
2. The tax system is out of whack, it depends to much on the middle class who just barely get by and not enough on the 1% who live like kings. And don't even bring up that crazy wealth envy argument, as long as they are paying a fair share of tax, them living like kings is just fine with me. They earned it or inherited it, its theirs to spend as they see fit.
3.. The fair tax is never going to happen, and if it did the resulting law would not be much different than todays system. The rich control government, they are the ones who pay to get people elected to office, wake up.
4. The comment makes no sense at all.
5. If Broun takes the Senate seat it will be just another politician getting a lifelong pension for doing absolutely nothing. He is so far out of touch with reality its scary and he won't accomplish anything. The Senate doesn't have as many crazies as the House, a place where he accomplished nothing but providing laughs for late night talk shows and the afternoon news.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#33518 Dec 22, 2013
the truth wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I would like your source on the percentage of income point, cause you are wrong again or using numbers after all the write offs and deductions that only the rich can use. That includes the ability to use the capital gains tax almost exclusively, the middle class can't do that.
2. The tax system is out of whack, it depends to much on the middle class who just barely get by and not enough on the 1% who live like kings. And don't even bring up that crazy wealth envy argument, as long as they are paying a fair share of tax, them living like kings is just fine with me. They earned it or inherited it, its theirs to spend as they see fit.
3.. The fair tax is never going to happen, and if it did the resulting law would not be much different than todays system. The rich control government, they are the ones who pay to get people elected to office, wake up.
4. The comment makes no sense at all.
5. If Broun takes the Senate seat it will be just another politician getting a lifelong pension for doing absolutely nothing. He is so far out of touch with reality its scary and he won't accomplish anything. The Senate doesn't have as many crazies as the House, a place where he accomplished nothing but providing laughs for late night talk shows and the afternoon news.
"I would like your source on the percentage of income point, cause you are wrong again or using numbers after all the write offs and deductions that only the rich can use. That includes the ability to use the capital gains tax almost exclusively, the middle class can't do that."

Being that the amount of income tax paid is based upon taxable income, not gross earnings, it is appropriate to use write offs and deductions. BTW, capital gains calculation is separate and independent from the deductions and write offs you reference.

However, to say "only the rich can use" is a clueless and uneducated comment. One of wealth envy, too.

Another BTW, I know many middle class people that utilize capital gains treatment when filing tax returns.

"The fair tax is never going to happen, and if it did the resulting law would not be much different than todays system. "

Oh, so a tax system based on taxable income (which can be quite a quite complex calculation) wouldn't be much different that enacts a national sales tax. REALLY? You can't be serious, or you know EVEN LESS about the FairTax than what you profess.

You really should only post about things you know, not what you think you know. You're wrong. Nothing wrong with that, you just don't know it...

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33519 Dec 23, 2013
the truth wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I would like your source on the percentage of income point, cause you are wrong again or using numbers after all the write offs and deductions that only the rich can use. That includes the ability to use the capital gains tax almost exclusively, the middle class can't do that.
2. The tax system is out of whack, it depends to much on the middle class who just barely get by and not enough on the 1% who live like kings. And don't even bring up that crazy wealth envy argument, as long as they are paying a fair share of tax, them living like kings is just fine with me. They earned it or inherited it, its theirs to spend as they see fit.
3.. The fair tax is never going to happen, and if it did the resulting law would not be much different than todays system. The rich control government, they are the ones who pay to get people elected to office, wake up.
4. The comment makes no sense at all.
5. If Broun takes the Senate seat it will be just another politician getting a lifelong pension for doing absolutely nothing. He is so far out of touch with reality its scary and he won't accomplish anything. The Senate doesn't have as many crazies as the House, a place where he accomplished nothing but providing laughs for late night talk shows and the afternoon news.
The (your) POI for taxes idea has already been defeated. I have given you three different and credible sources proving the rich pay more in taxes, any way your slice it. Game over.

I have answered all of your questions. Now I have a couple more for you.

In your model of "business only taxpayers" where will business get the money from?
Do you agree with Broun's voting record?
Who do you support for Saxby's seat?

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#33520 Dec 23, 2013
There will be no changes of any consequences ever made to our lame tax system. Doing so would take great power away from the government, from which they can forcibly punish, and take away property, and one's rights. Special interest thrive with backroom deals made with the government politicians for special deals and regulations. In return politicians gain valuable monetary and other support from these same special interest. Some legal and some not.
Why would the government ever change such a golden cash cow that gives them unlimited power and money. Changing the tax system would give the average American more freedom to succeed on his or her own without the governments interference or influence. Why this could actually lead to real personal freedom!
After reading some of the post, I must come to the conclusion that there are those that don't know a damn thing about trying to succeed in a business or trade and know nothing about the tax system. Others want the government to be fascist, communist or socialist. Some are just afraid of freedom, having to make their own decisions, and actually paying their own way.
My opinion is that the tax system will only become more muddied, costly, and more unfair as time goes on.
Ga Girl 56

Roswell, GA

#33521 Dec 23, 2013
John In North Carolina wrote:
I am well pleased with this man and especially his stance against ILLEGAL ALIENS. He always answers any question I submit to him via email.
Hello again, John. Don't see you much around the boards anymore so I just thought I'd use this and wish you and your family a very safe, Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for the coming New Year. God Bless!!

(nice waterfall)
Ga Girl 56

Roswell, GA

#33522 Dec 23, 2013
John In North Carolina wrote:
I am well pleased with this man and especially his stance against ILLEGAL ALIENS. He always answers any question I submit to him via email.
Yeah, nice "waterfall" Lot's bigger than the last one I saw you with. LMAO!!!!!!!!!
there

Toccoa, GA

#33523 Dec 23, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
There will be no changes of any consequences ever made to our lame tax system. Doing so would take great power away from the government, from which they can forcibly punish, and take away property, and one's rights. Special interest thrive with backroom deals made with the government politicians for special deals and regulations. In return politicians gain valuable monetary and other support from these same special interest. Some legal and some not.
Why would the government ever change such a golden cash cow that gives them unlimited power and money. Changing the tax system would give the average American more freedom to succeed on his or her own without the governments interference or influence. Why this could actually lead to real personal freedom!
After reading some of the post, I must come to the conclusion that there are those that don't know a damn thing about trying to succeed in a business or trade and know nothing about the tax system. Others want the government to be fascist, communist or socialist. Some are just afraid of freedom, having to make their own decisions, and actually paying their own way.
My opinion is that the tax system will only become more muddied, costly, and more unfair as time goes on.

I agree 100%.........

there

Toccoa, GA

#33524 Dec 23, 2013
My last word on the Fair Tax………..

It is a “pie in the sky” tax scheme, nothing more, nothing less………..
First, the name itself is a misnomer…..instead of calling it a progressive tax, it should be called a regressive tax, as progressive (to me) implies socialist’s leanings…….

For instance, used goods once tax under the system will not be taxed again if sold…This begs many questions—what happens to the lost tax revenue when folks buy used products instead of new ones…..i.e., cars, trucks, clothes, appliances, etc.etc.

At present total Fica taxes by individuals and businesses are 15.3%......

So the Fairtax folks would have us believe that a top rate of 23% for everyone would replace federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes, when the FICA taxes alone is 15.3% AND both S.S. and Medicare are going broke.(pie in the sky folks.)

This must be based on an assumption that everyone would spend every dime they make, every year, I see no other reason to make these outlandish claims. No mention is made on how to make up for lost revenue from sale of used items…..

But wait, the max tax is not really 23%, it is actually 30%......which our 2 proponents of the Fair Tax has not told us about…………A classic example of Bait and Switch………..

From the fairtax website…………
“”I know the FairTax rate is 23 percent when compared to current income taxes. What will the rate of the sales tax be at the retail counter?
30 percent. This issue is often confusing, so we explain more here.
When income tax rates are quoted, economists call that a tax-inclusive quote: "I paid 23 percent last year." For every $100 earned,$23 went to Uncle Sam. Or, "I had to make $130 to have $100 to spend." That’s a 23-percent tax-inclusive rate.
We choose to compare the FairTax to income taxes, quoting the rate the same way, because the FairTax replaces such taxes. That rate is 23 percent.
Sales taxes, on the other hand, are generally quoted tax exclusive: "I bought a $77 shirt and had to pay that same $23 in sales tax." This is a 30-percent sales tax. Or, "I spent a dollar, 77¢ for the product and 23¢ in tax." This rate, when programmed into a point-of-purchase terminal, is 30 percent.
Note that no matter which way it is quoted, the amount of tax is the same. Under an income tax rate of 23 percent, you have to earn $130 to spend $100.
Spend that same $100 under a sales tax, you pay that same tax of $30, and the rate is quoted as 30 percent.
Perhaps the biggest difference between the two is that under the income tax, controlling the amount of tax you pay is a complex nightmare. Under the FairTax, you may simply choose not to spend, or to spend less.””

How convenient….just spend nothing, or less………….

The FairTax scheme is a lot of wasted effort put forth by a rich guy selling books, name of Boortz, in order to get richer……..selling to gullible buyers………..

I agreed with BigDave because his post reflects what has occurred since the 16th Amendment was passed……and why was it ratified so easily you may ask???……….
Because the only folks taxed at the time were higher income folks…..there was no tax levied on the middle class and lower income folks……………..so the Southern and Western part of the country ratified it easily…..only the better paid folks in the Northeast voted against the Amendment…..

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33525 Dec 23, 2013
gubmint wrote:
<quoted text>
The arrogant ass from Wal-Mart dodges all the questions again. At least the little fellow is consistent.
I just wish he could explain how individuals live within their means when we as people are carrying record debt, just like gubmint.
Speak for yourself, no debt here.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#33526 Dec 23, 2013
there wrote:
My last word on the Fair Tax………..
...
Thank the heavens for small favors...
Columbus Native

Oklahoma City, OK

#33527 Dec 23, 2013
What sick and perverted minds to build and put into space a spy sattelite that monitors Americans phone onversations. This info can also be accessed by the IRS,DEA,FBI,Homeland securtiy and any other federal or state police force who are suppose to have a Judges approval Off course that would mean following he constitution which has been literally sh-t on for the past 12 years. I am hopeing the Chinese or Russians wil blast this albotrose out of the sky and protect all citizens of planet earth.

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33528 Dec 23, 2013
there wrote:
My last word on the Fair Tax………..
It is a “pie in the sky” tax scheme, nothing more, nothing less………..
First, the name itself is a misnomer…..instead of calling it a progressive tax, it should be called a regressive tax, as progressive (to me) implies socialist’s leanings…….
For instance, used goods once tax under the system will not be taxed again if sold…This begs many questions—what happens to the lost tax revenue when folks buy used products instead of new ones…..i.e., cars, trucks, clothes, appliances, etc.etc.
At present total Fica taxes by individuals and businesses are 15.3%......
So the Fairtax folks would have us believe that a top rate of 23% for everyone would replace federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes, when the FICA taxes alone is 15.3% AND both S.S. and Medicare are going broke.(pie in the sky folks.)
This must be based on an assumption that everyone would spend every dime they make, every year, I see no other reason to make these outlandish claims. No mention is made on how to make up for lost revenue from sale of used items…..
But wait, the max tax is not really 23%, it is actually 30%......which our 2 proponents of the Fair Tax has not told us about…………A classic example of Bait and Switch………..
From the fairtax website…………
“”I know the FairTax rate is 23 percent when compared to current income taxes. What will the rate of the sales tax be at the retail counter?
30 percent. This issue is often confusing, so we explain more here.
When income tax rates are quoted, economists call that a tax-inclusive quote: "I paid 23 percent last year." For every $100 earned,$23 went to Uncle Sam. Or, "I had to make $130 to have $100 to spend." That’s a 23-percent tax-inclusive rate.
We choose to compare the FairTax to income taxes, quoting the rate the same way, because the FairTax replaces such taxes. That rate is 23 percent.
Sales taxes, on the other hand, are generally quoted tax exclusive: "I bought a $77 shirt and had to pay that same $23 in sales tax." This is a 30-percent sales tax. Or, "I spent a dollar, 77¢ for the product and 23¢ in tax." This rate, when programmed into a point-of-purchase terminal, is 30 percent.
Note that no matter which way it is quoted, the amount of tax is the same. Under an income tax rate of 23 percent, you have to earn $130 to spend $100.
Spend that same $100 under a sales tax, you pay that same tax of $30, and the rate is quoted as 30 percent.
Perhaps the biggest difference between the two is that under the income tax, controlling the amount of tax you pay is a complex nightmare. Under the FairTax, you may simply choose not to spend, or to spend less.””
How convenient….just spend nothing, or less………….
The FairTax scheme is a lot of wasted effort put forth by a rich guy selling books, name of Boortz, in order to get richer……..selling to gullible buyers………..
I agreed with BigDave because his post reflects what has occurred since the 16th Amendment was passed……and why was it ratified so easily you may ask???……….
Because the only folks taxed at the time were higher income folks…..there was no tax levied on the middle class and lower income folks……………..so the Southern and Western part of the country ratified it easily…..only the better paid folks in the Northeast voted against the Amendment…..
What are you doing to try and change the status quo? Who will you support for Saxby's seat?

“Marble Man”

Since: Jul 11

Dallas, GA

#33529 Dec 23, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank the heavens for small favors...
"Famous last words"?
there

Toccoa, GA

#33530 Dec 23, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank the heavens for small favors...

You should be thankful......your fairtax was crushed into dust........

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