Black and white: Nearly 150 years after Darwin, creationists and...

For 150 years, Charles Darwin's 'The Origin of Species' has been the go-to text for understanding and teaching the principles of evolutionary biology.

[MIDutch]

From the article:

" "You can't teach creationism or intelligent design without getting into a little bit of trouble in the public schools, which is a shame," said former Green Bay East High School science teacher Jim Kraft of Allouez. "What's being promoted in the public schools is really atheism.… There's the (presumption) that the Earth is millions, billions of years old, and that is really a very subtle attack on the Bible, and on Christianity."

Kraft used to be an evolutionist, but later became a Christian and an adherent to creationist principles."

So, it was only after Kraft became a "christian" that he suddenly realized "creationism" was correct. Before that the evidence convinced him that the ToE was the best scientific explanation for the biological diversity of life we see on planet earth past and present, but then he found Jeebus in a goat herder interpretation of a bronze age book of myth and fable and all of a sudden science and all of the evidence science is suddenly wrong.

Very typical.

Most "converts" don't go from accepting the ToE to believing in "creationism" because that is where the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE takes them, but because that is where the dogmatic ideology forces them.

They obviously think that they can't be "saved" if they understand cosmology (age of the universe), physics (radioactive decay rates, constant speed of light), geology (age of the earth, fossil record), chemistry (common occurrence of organic compounds, no random chemical reactions), biology (genetics), so it becomes necessary for them to IGNORE the vast amount of evidence from MULTIPLE scientific disciplines to insure their supposed place in heaven.

Further, after they find "christianity" they presume to claim that EVERY avenue of human knowledge and wisdom, including every other religion, theology, and philosophy along with science, is incorrect and ONLY their particular interpretation of their chosen holy book is true.

In other words, they fully disconnect from reality, after their conversion to "fundamentalist christian creationism".

[Sheila]

He got old, afraid of death, and adopted the "just-in-case" mentality. It happens.

[MIDutch]

Sheila wrote:

He got old, afraid of death, and adopted the "just-in-case" mentality. It happens.

All too true. That's why the elderly are such a gold mine for the tEVILangelists. Strike the fear of everlasting torment into their hearts and steal every last penny they have.

My wife used to work with senior citizens through her job as the director of one of the local parks and recreation departments and the horror stories she used to tell were sickening. Seniors sending all of their money to the Jerry Falwells, Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim and Tammy Fayes of the world and eating dog food while freezing to death waiting for their promised spot in heaven.

It is at least IMMORAL and it SHOULD be criminal.

[Sheila]

MIDutch wrote:

<quoted text>
All too true. That's why the elderly are such a gold mine for the tEVILangelists. Strike the fear of everlasting torment into their hearts and steal every last penny they have.
My wife used to work with senior citizens through her job as the director of one of the local parks and recreation departments and the horror stories she used to tell were sickening. Seniors sending all of their money to the Jerry Falwells, Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim and Tammy Fayes of the world and eating dog food while freezing to death waiting for their promised spot in heaven.
It is at least IMMORAL and it SHOULD be criminal.

For some, buying that "ticket to heaven" is irresistible in facing their oncoming demise. I knew an older blind neighbor who showed a surprising amount of outrage over her churches greed. One day when I came over to check on her she was running a priest out her door, telling him not to come back! To my amazement she admitted that the priests single purpose for visiting was to suggest she leave her property to the church. I was just as angry as she was about that. To treat such a gentle old woman like that was so rude. After all those years of paying tithes the church was afraid a relative might inherit what was left?! Such shameful greed!

[MIDutch]

Sheila wrote:

<quoted text> For some, buying that "ticket to heaven" is irresistible in facing their oncoming demise. I knew an older blind neighbor who showed a surprising amount of outrage over her churches greed. One day when I came over to check on her she was running a priest out her door, telling him not to come back! To my amazement she admitted that the priests single purpose for visiting was to suggest she leave her property to the church. I was just as angry as she was about that. To treat such a gentle old woman like that was so rude. After all those years of paying tithes the church was afraid a relative might inherit what was left?! Such shameful greed!

Just a small example of how much evil is done in the name of "god".

[Lil Ticked]

MIDutch wrote:

<quoted text>
Just a small example of how much evil is done in the name of "god".

It is just like being a door to door sales man. If you ask enough people you are bound to find some suckers.
"If you will your property to the church God will have one 3 times that size waiting for you in heaven. Sounds like the deal of a life time doesn't it? C'mon Don't you want to one up you neighbors after your dead? That's right just sign the dotted line." KaChing.
I knew I should have completed my Pastor training.
(something about hypocrisy bothered my a little)

[Lil Ticked]

Something must be wrong with my fingers. Type like an idiot.

[Tom]

The really interesting thing is that the Fundies get all in an uproar about the ToE; Darwin was actually using the book to demonstrate his belief that God existed for how else was one to explain the great diversity of life and how life fit every place in the area of the Galapagos.

[auroranorth]

well our schools dont practice either version , what we get is a politically correct version of marxist leninst dogma, an incredible pack of lies and nonsense with a heavy dose of pro israel propaganda thrown in

[Lil Ticked]

auroranorth wrote:

well our schools dont practice either version , what we get is a politically correct version of marxist leninst dogma, an incredible pack of lies and nonsense with a heavy dose of pro israel propaganda thrown in

That explains a lot as to why Fon Du lac has a bad reputation. Then again, it could be from all of the public urination.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-9949927.html

[MIDutch]

auroranorth wrote:

well our schools dont practice either version , what we get is a politically correct version of marxist leninst dogma, an incredible pack of lies and nonsense with a heavy dose of pro israel propaganda thrown in

Since it is the "religious right" and the more fanatical elements of the Republic party trying to water down science education in the United States (relevant to the discussion) and are also well known for their visceral support of Israel (not relevant to the discussion) are you saying that the "religious right" and the Republican party are "marxist leninist" dogmatics?

Marxist Leninist "fundamentalist christian" Republican.

An oxymoron if I ever heard one. Did you even think about this post before hitting the 'post comment' button?

[Erasmus05]

MIDutch wrote:

Very typical.
Most "converts" don't go from accepting the ToE to believing in "creationism" because that is where the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE takes them, but because that is where the dogmatic ideology forces them.

There is also this strange view of life whereby they feel it is their duty to sacrifice intellect for their religious beliefs. IMHO, this is why there is such a strong anti-intellectual streak in the Repub party ... but that is a discussion for another day and another thread.

As to creationism, if the evidence really leads there then why can't anyone present evidence indepedent of the Bible that points to species being magically poofed into being or a recent global flood? That is perhaps the biggest sign that one is following a religion, not the evidence.

[Sheila]

Erasmus05 wrote:

<quoted text>
There is also this strange view of life whereby they feel it is their duty to sacrifice intellect for their religious beliefs. IMHO, this is why there is such a strong anti-intellectual streak in the Repub party ... but that is a discussion for another day and another thread.
As to creationism, if the evidence really leads there then why can't anyone present evidence indepedent of the Bible that points to species being magically poofed into being or a recent global flood? That is perhaps the biggest sign that one is following a religion, not the evidence.

It's all about submission to what someone else thinks your conscious should tell you to do.

[TheGavin]

I STILL find it all so confusing and frustrating.

Not the ToE, but rather, the reasoning that is used by ID'ers/Creationist, to facilitate their "logical" conclusions and insist that they very much hold as much, if not more, substance scientifically, than mainstream fields of science...without delving "actually" into REAL science.

As was stated earlier, they seem to have this nifty knack of making sure to suck anything and everything (using filters of course) into their views and claim it as their own, while dropping the parts that actually give any particular subject it's meat, so it doesn't conflict, but thereby making it useless and instead substituting, "well God did that part, we don't need the scientific explanation, because it's flawed." Makes me wanna pull my hair out.

Case in point. A friend of mine, who has a religious lean, was talking about the doomsday of 2012. It dawned on me, that I was watching and listening to him give substance to Christian Revelations, using the Mayans.

I told him he couldn't do that. That the Mayans had no idea of what Christians were, let alone God or Jesus, long before they met any European. As well as, he better hope (being a good christian and all) that the world doesn't end on 2012, because that would mean that not only did the Mayans name the specific year and date, but that they were right, which would mean that he and his beliefs were wrong.

That part didn't go over well...eek.

[auroranorth]

MIDutch wrote:

<quoted text>
Since it is the "religious right" and the more fanatical elements of the Republic party trying to water down science education in the United States (relevant to the discussion) and are also well known for their visceral support of Israel (not relevant to the discussion) are you saying that the "religious right" and the Republican party are "marxist leninist" dogmatics?
Marxist Leninist "fundamentalist christian" Republican.
An oxymoron if I ever heard one. Did you even think about this post before hitting the 'post comment' button?

you suffer from tunnel vision in which like a programmed rat you rush forth with this Republican bs, if you honestly think the leaders of either of these parties stand for anything other than their own personal power you are a fool.

[MIDutch]

auroranorth wrote:

<quoted text>
you suffer from tunnel vision in which like a programmed rat you rush forth with this Republican bs, if you honestly think the leaders of either of these parties stand for anything other than their own personal power you are a fool.

And this opinion of yours addresses what, exactly?

Do you know what the topic of this thread is?

Do you have evidence that it is liberal Democrats who want to teach "creationism" in the schools?

Do you have any evidence that the religious RIGHT are mostly LEFT leaning Democrats?

Do you have any evidence that "fundametalinst christians" vote the Democratic ticket the majority of the time?

Do you have evidence that the MORE education a person gets the MORE likely they are to be a "creationist".

Do you have any evidence for "creationism" at all? And if NOT, then why do you believe it should be taught in science classes.

Are YOU a Democrat?