us 60 going broke just like catlettsburg

[x customer]

thanks high taxes

[deranged hobo]

you know, its rare that a federal highway just up and goes broke like that.

but seriously, income taxes are lower than they've been in 60 years, so nice try

[lower????]

deranged hobo wrote:

you know, its rare that a federal highway just up and goes broke like that.

but seriously, income taxes are lower than they've been in 60 years, so nice try

I don't know how well you look at your pay stub but mine sure don't show lower taxes. I have paid a lot more in the past few years. They are far from lower then they have been in 60 years I will research it and post what I find.

[lower????]

It didn't take long to find out that the income tax for a family of 4 was the lowest in 2008 ( under bush) then its been in 36 years. And that is for middle class only. If you made over eighty grand with a family of 4 you paid an average of 2.1 % more. No! Taxes are NOT !!!!!! Lower . They are almost higher now then they were in 2000 and 2001 . Which are record years for the gov. Income

[deranged hobo]

where are you getting these numbers, pulling them out of your backside? The lowest tax bracket marginal rate is at 10%. That's the lowest it has been since 1941. Now, if you want to compare the amount of taxes as a part of the GDP, which will give you a more accurate account of how much of what people in general take in vs. what is paid in taxes, that gives you 14.8%. That number hasn't been this low since 1950, so yes, taxes are lower. Try again.

[being truthful]

Highways are payed for and maintained by a federal angency that derives its funds directly from the federal fuel tax (18.3 cents a gallon).

That tax rate of 18.3¢ a gallon has been that number since 1993. So for almost 20 years it's been that, unadjusted for inflation, not able to rise on its own accord at all, and is yet expected to pay for all the roads, bridges, maintenance, and new roads and tunnels... It mends to be raised.

ANYWAYS, high taxes aren't to blame dumb ass. The taxes that pay for your precious US 60 haven't been raised in almost 20 years!!!!!!!!!

And of course no politician will have them raised because the public will just bitch because they're too blind to see the positive effects it will have on the infrastructure of America! I can not think of one single person who doesn't use the road network in the USA.

[anyways]

its true

[Libertarian]

Income taxes don't go to build roads. Btw, we don't need the government to build roads anyway... That's a fallacy. I suppose if there werent all these laws you guys would be shooting heroin and giving $25 bj's to truck drivers at Jolly pirates, huh?

[Libertarian]

Also, this whole argument over high vs low taxes is fallacious as well. Democrats want to steal from me to find welfare and warfare... Republicans want to steal a little less than me to fund welfare and warfare.

Whether its high, or low, the argument for any type of taxes relies on the implication that government owns your life, property, time, and thus the fruits of your labor. If you reject this and believe YOU own yourself and do not willingly surrender your property, it will be stolen. Taxation is theft!!

The only real argument is taxes vs no taxes. Theft vs no theft. Force bs no force.

The problem with Democrats and Republicans is that they are fundamentally the same philosophically. They both are collectivists. They both are willing to sacrifice the individual for what they believe to be the collective good. Dems only want high taxes bc they think it's for the collective good, and Reps only want low taxes bc they feel it's for the collective good. They don't care about an individuals right to his life and property!

Stop supporting theft? Stop supporting violence. Only vote for politicians who want to work to end all coercive taxes, end all wars funded trough theft, and end all morality controls which are funded with theft. Period.

[being truthful]

YEAH, BECAUSE EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES DOESN'T COST ANY MONEY AT ALL, all those people work for free. Didn't you know that?

[Libertarian]

being truthful wrote:

YEAH, BECAUSE EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES DOESN'T COST ANY MONEY AT ALL, all those people work for free. Didn't you know that?

Why do you think we need government to build roads? If business an property owners built the roads then they would be build faster, better, and more cost efficient. Look at these state workers perpetually repairing roads for no other reason than to keep feeding them our tax money.

[being truthful]

Umm.... or maybe it's the fact that they never have enough money to make them last a long time in the first place?

[Libertarian]

being truthful wrote:

Umm.... or maybe it's the fact that they never have enough money to make them last a long time in the first place?

So you think it's ok for the government to threaten me at gun point to give them what I have earned so long as they use it to build a road? Why donyou think stealing is ok? Would you tolerate a junkie stealing your property? What's te difference?

Especially when you consider private entities could build better roads in less time and for less money.

[deranged hobo]

Libertarian wrote:

<quoted text>
Why do you think we need government to build roads? If business an property owners built the roads then they would be build faster, better, and more cost efficient. Look at these state workers perpetually repairing roads for no other reason than to keep feeding them our tax money.

what factual basis do you have for this? I'm pretty sure its just "well that's what I believe to be true", because we tried this during the railroad boom period and we ended up with railroads all over the place that weren't connected to each other and COULDN'T be connected to each other because they were all of different gauges. What on earth leads you to believe that a business (or, in reality, most living things) will do anything in the public interest instead of its own?

Corporations or private property owners don't build interstates. They don't build international airports. They don't build locks and dams to make rivers navigable. They don't hold themselves to anything more than cost effective safety standards, because if its cheaper to let a worker die and just hire a new one, so be it. It takes little more than a cursory glance at history to see that.

[Libertarian]

deranged hobo wrote:

<quoted text>what factual basis do you have for this? I'm pretty sure its just "well that's what I believe to be true", because we tried this during the railroad boom period and we ended up with railroads all over the place that weren't connected to each other and COULDN'T be connected to each other because they were all of different gauges. What on earth leads you to believe that a business (or, in reality, most living things) will do anything in the public interest instead of its own?

Corporations or private property owners don't build interstates. They don't build international airports. They don't build locks and dams to make rivers navigable. They don't hold themselves to anything more than cost effective safety standards, because if its cheaper to let a worker die and just hire a new one, so be it. It takes little more than a cursory glance at history to see that.

So you advocate theft? And a business or group of property owners would build roads because, believe it or not, they want to sell stuff to customers lol.

[deranged hobo]

Taxation is not theft. It is not theft to enter into a social contract with a collective to pool your resources to achieve things that, individually, none (or few) could.

Now, would corporations build roads? Maybe. Dirt roads, of the lowest quality they could, only to the places they want. I asked you for evidence that corporations or private property owners would build the sort of infrastructure that the government can and has. Show me a corporate built interstate highway system that can rival the one we have. Show me a privately built dam that can rival Hoover Dam. Show me a canal build by a property owner than can compare to the Panama Canal. Show me an entirely privately funded and maintained airport that can accommodate the traffic of LAX. Show me the evidence for your claims and I'll consider them. If you don't have any, come up with an argument that you actually can back up.

[Libertarian]

deranged hobo wrote:

Taxation is not theft. It is not theft to enter into a social contract with a collective to pool your resources to achieve things that, individually, none (or few) could.

Now, would corporations build roads? Maybe. Dirt roads, of the lowest quality they could, only to the places they want. I asked you for evidence that corporations or private property owners would build the sort of infrastructure that the government can and has. Show me a corporate built interstate highway system that can rival the one we have. Show me a privately built dam that can rival Hoover Dam. Show me a canal build by a property owner than can compare to the Panama Canal. Show me an entirely privately funded and maintained airport that can accommodate the traffic of LAX. Show me the evidence for your claims and I'll consider them. If you don't have any, come up with an argument that you actually can back up.

How is taxation not theft? I never signed a social contract, did you? How can it be for the collective good of there are victims. I have a right to my property, you claim people with guns have a right to steal it. Theft.

Businesses built roads in Hawaii when they were tired of waiting on government. Companies want to sell stuff, if people can't get there easily, they will go where they can. That's the proof.

[deranged hobo]

Libertarian wrote:

<quoted text>
How is taxation not theft? I never signed a social contract, did you? How can it be for the collective good of there are victims. I have a right to my property, you claim people with guns have a right to steal it. Theft.
Businesses built roads in Hawaii when they were tired of waiting on government. Companies want to sell stuff, if people can't get there easily, they will go where they can. That's the proof.

A social contract was entered into when the United States (or any other government) was formed. You surrender some of your individual rights to the government and they in turn protect others. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, that's where we are. You're welcome to go and find an island and declare it a sovereign nation.

Yes, companies in Hawaii created roads, but a)they weren't nearly to the quality of those created by the government, and b)they didn't cover nearly the area of those created by the government. Now, as I've asked before, can you give me examples of international airports, locks and dams, interstate highway systems, canals, or other major public works projects that can compare to those created by the government?

[lower????]

Libertarian wrote:

<quoted text>How is taxation not theft? I never signed a social contract, did you? How can it be for the collective good of there are victims. I have a right to my property, you claim people with guns have a right to steal it. Theft.

Businesses built roads in Hawaii when they were tired of waiting on government. Companies want to sell stuff, if people can't get there easily, they will go where they can. That's the proof.

I don't know where you come up with your so called facts. I have looked for everything you have posted and none of it has a fact base at all. Your dates are wrong and so are your numbers. I'm not trying to argue with you, I would just like to see the source of your facts

[Libertarian]

[QUOTE who="lower????"]< quoted text>I don't know where you come up with your so called facts. I have looked for everything you have posted and none of it has a fact base at all. Your dates are wrong and so are your numbers. I'm not trying to argue with you, I would just like to see the source of your facts[/QUOTE]

I want to know why you advocate theft? Why you advocate armed robbery? Why you think that a business owner or people in a community wouldn't come together to voluntarily fund a road or highway... They did in Hawaii.