Bible study rules for public schools proposed

[really]

THose who most ATTACK the BIBLE are often those most AFRAID it might b TRUE..
There are thin lines between love and hate in some people's rs also... A real "person" of God.. A Christ follower... Someone close to God.. Will not b one of these ppl some of u have described. They will have compassion, empathy, sympathy... But they also have the flesh to deal with... It struggles with the spirit.
Christians are not PERFECT ppl by no means... They are FORGIVEN.. Which means a lot to a sinner especially IF they have been forgiven. Have u ever lied to someone or hurt someone and they "FORGAVE" u..how did that feel? "Or have u needed forgiveness from someone u offended and never gotten it". Well that's what it's about. Forgiving and loving. What could b so "WRONG" with that? Gee whiz ..... R u haters of everything good! Can u not see more evil and bad around you every day? I pray for everyone posting on this sight that our eyes and ears would b open to the Spirit and that we would all come to know the "TRUTH" before u r in the grave and no longer have that CHANCE... Say whatever u will.. This has been going on for some time now, but GOD gave us all a measure of faith aNd that's all we need.
True Christians are peaceful and joyful "Even in the hardest of times" can u say that when u have a death or a bill due or no food? Who do u call on? Who can u call on? Friends, relatives? How many times? Day and night?
My life alone has been spared THREE times in two weeks. Once today. MIRACLES all around ... They r not hard to c or hear... So glad I'm a Christ follower and have peace. I would NEVER trade... Never deny my Jesus..
God BLESS U ALL

[Yiago]

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text>
So the mother that wants and abortion can ask her boy friend to kill it for her... At which point both would be in court for Murder... Very convoluted illogical views to allow the homicidal to justify their homicide...

No, absolutely not. An abortion should be a closely-regulated medical procedure just like any other. We would not allow our boyfriends to remove our gall bladders, would we?

The logic is sound. The decision rests with the mother. If she wants to carry her baby to term, then treat it as a person. If she decides to have an abortion then she can have an abortion and it is a matter of regulating her own body.

We can hash out details about how far along these rules apply. I too am very troubled by "late term" abortions. But I'm not knowledgeable about the state of science in that area to say exactly how far along an abortion should remain 100% mom's choice.

It's an interesting debate. Very tied up in ethical issues. The biggest ethical issue I think you are missing is the entire "woman" component. There are two lives involved, not just one. And one of them is already an established human being with feelings, memories, and investment in society. The other is part of her body until such time as she gives birth to it.

[Are You Kidding]

LOL in a suit wrote:

<quoted text>Blow me.

Not a chance in hell!!!! Maybe when you grow up someone will.

[aWitchintheWoods]

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text>
Because I am Human I consider Human Life to have intrinsic value, to have the view that it does not have such is the first step into rationalizing genocide, mass murder as justifiable...

Many (in fact, probably most) humans think that THEIR own lives are "intrinsically" more valuable than other humans...which is the first step into rationalizing genocide, mass murder as justifiable..

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text> Yes all life has Intrinsic value, from the single cell extremophile in a boiling acid bath to the Clover in the front yard to You and me.. The value we as a species give each of those varies.... But since I am Human I place more value on Human Life than I do a cow... Of course the cow would disagree....

So human life is valuable because YOU are human? I would say you have a bias.
Sorry but this sounds a bit like Hitler saying that Aryan Germans have more value than Jews. Of course, the Jews disagreed...

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text> As for the "Leave me here it's comfortable" I agree that Human Being would rather stay there being comfortable until space becomes an issue and it becomes uncomfortable and they decide to leave... I don't think that Human Being would say hey just kill me already...

But you agree that it would likely say, "Don't make me be born."
Of course we are just making stuff up here. A fetus is not thinking about anything.

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text> My point has always been a matter of Logic.. I make my position based on only that... I am an atheist so there is no religious aspect to my view and it's really a simple view...

I applaude your Logic regarding many things, especially religion.
You have a thoughtful mind and a wonderful eye with the camera.

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text> Precedent has been set under the law that a fetus is a Human Being, a Homosapien.... That precedent is set when anyone is prosecuted for killing a fetus and convicted for Homicide (the killing of a Homosapien by another Homosapien)... Since under the law a fetus is a Human Being then to kill it is Homicide by definition and should require that it be Justified under the law... Some forms of homicide are justifiable, some are not... But I don't think the Homicidal should be the ones to make that call...

Now you are talking about the Law, not Logic.

But to call a woman who, for her own reasons, decides that she must terminate a pregnancy "the Homicidal" is unconscionable.
You have never been (and never will be) in the situation that she is in.
You will never have to make that decision.

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text> To allow the homicidal that think human life has no intrinsic value to do the determination of justification is a basis for rationalizing the extermination of masses of human beings... That mindset gave us eugenics, forced sterilizations, genocide and selective breeding programs in history....

That's quite a leap....from a woman having the right to have an abortion to eugenics, forced sterilizations, genocide and selective breeding programs.
Women have terminated pregnancies for thousands of years. I'm fairly sure that fact was not what inspired the Hitlers of the world to remake it in their own image.
(Sorry to use the whold "Hitler" thing, but it was easiest and I am tired.)

[aWitchintheWoods]

**whole**
Definitely tired...lol.

[Are You Kidding]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> hate is not the same as contempt. you are skeptic are contemptible, and atheists. I admit that I object more when atheists are obscene and nasty, than when fundies are. I am OK with the notion of fundies giving a bad name to their point of view. I dislike it when atheists are so nasty that they turn decent persons off and give rational thought a bad name. You are the one who is hateful - toward Christians in general, without distinguishing between the hateful vicious ones and the well-meaning kind ones, or anything in between. Most Christians I know are much nicer persons than you are. That does not make me a theist. I think you reveal your nastiness in most of your comments, and most people can see that.

haven't forgotten, you said it all so very well. Thank you!

[aWitchintheWoods]

Yes and Amen wrote:

<quoted text>"We are only clever animals"
Believe me... you're NOT that clever!

As I have pointed out before, which one of us was a prostitute to make money to buy drugs and tried (unsuccessfully) to kill himself?
Which one of us has an imaginary, invisible friend who loves him?

I'm clever simply by being a homosapien, as are you, monkeyboy.
However, I am one hell of a lot smarter than you are.....
No doubt about it.

[Quantummist]

aWitchintheWoods wrote:

<quoted text>
Many (in fact, probably most) humans think that THEIR own lives are "intrinsically" more valuable than other humans...which is the first step into rationalizing genocide, mass murder as justifiable..
<quoted text>
So human life is valuable because YOU are human? I would say you have a bias.
Sorry but this sounds a bit like Hitler saying that Aryan Germans have more value than Jews. Of course, the Jews disagreed...
<quoted text>
But you agree that it would likely say, "Don't make me be born."
Of course we are just making stuff up here. A fetus is not thinking about anything.
<quoted text>
I applaude your Logic regarding many things, especially religion.
You have a thoughtful mind and a wonderful eye with the camera.
<quoted text>
Now you are talking about the Law, not Logic.
But to call a woman who, for her own reasons, decides that she must terminate a pregnancy "the Homicidal" is unconscionable.
You have never been (and never will be) in the situation that she is in.
You will never have to make that decision.
<quoted text>
That's quite a leap....from a woman having the right to have an abortion to eugenics, forced sterilizations, genocide and selective breeding programs.
Women have terminated pregnancies for thousands of years. I'm fairly sure that fact was not what inspired the Hitlers of the world to remake it in their own image.
(Sorry to use the whold "Hitler" thing, but it was easiest and I am tired.)

And absolutely incorrect... You seem to group think... I don't... Human Beings are my only group and yes I am biased to the Human Side of the evolutionary equation.. And it was part of it because Hitler was acting on the long held views of others that allowed for one group to consider itself of more import, of more value... This came from doctors and scientist that felt some lives were not Human.. So it's actually not a far jump from Humanity sanctioning and condoning a pre birth human being as non human and the Next Step of considering mentally incompetent new born as less than human and with out concern allowing it to be killed, or the next step of considering a Group as less than Human and allowing them to be eradicated... While you may not see the connection at this time the precedent set of of letting the homicidal justify the homicide allows for the next generation to make that leap you do not take...

[aWitchintheWoods]

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text>
And absolutely incorrect... You seem to group think... I don't... Human Beings are my only group and yes I am biased to the Human Side of the evolutionary equation.. And it was part of it because Hitler was acting on the long held views of others that allowed for one group to consider itself of more import, of more value... This came from doctors and scientist that felt some lives were not Human.. So it's actually not a far jump from Humanity sanctioning and condoning a pre birth human being as non human and the Next Step of considering mentally incompetent new born as less than human and with out concern allowing it to be killed, or the next step of considering a Group as less than Human and allowing them to be eradicated... While you may not see the connection at this time the precedent set of of letting the homicidal justify the homicide allows for the next generation to make that leap you do not take...

On the contrary, most modern, civilized societies take exceptional care of the disabled/handicapped, both mentally and physically. Third-world countries,(as you say) not so much...

There is always the danger of another "purge" or "holocaust" but laying that responsibility on the right to terminate a pregnancy is too far a stretch. I understand what you are saying, but I just don't think it's reasonable.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this.
Thanks for the discussion.

By the way, I'm using one of your close-ups of stones as my computer screen background.
Could I ask what kind of camera you use? The detail is incredible.

[thesmokemonster]

LOL in a suit wrote:

<quoted text>No, there is not even a thoery, nothing to back it up but a book, o my, I forgot there is faith.

Wings of a Dove wrote:

<quoted text>What is this THOERY ou keep talking about? Is it a cousin to a theory? Bad spelling can make a smart person look dumb.

Wings of a Dove wrote:

<quoted text>Just be sure te teachers tell them that mythology is just that ...a myth!

LOL in a suit wrote:

<quoted text>"te teachers" Grammar errors can also make stupid people look like dumbasses.

@Wings of a Dove--- You missed the "y" in "you" after you spelled theory in uppercase letters to point out another person's spelling error! The second quote you made has a spelling error as well. Were you trying to say "the teachers"? You said in another post that you spilled coke on your keyboard and that your "H" key was stuck. These arguments are petty and off-topic. The only thing that I find useful is that it proves that we need to spend more money on the fundamental classes and programs in the educational system in the state of Kentucky.

Dear Kentucky Politicians,
During my time on Topix debating the fact that Kentucky does not need to spend tax dollars on bible study electives, I spent more time reading and huffing at grammar and spelling errors as well as reading pages of argumentative posts about other people's grammar and spelling errors. Why are you wasting your time and our tax dollars trying to promote a bible study elective when it is obvious that we need to spend more money and focus on the basics? Math, science, literature, grammar, art, and technology classes need much improvement for Kentucky students to be on par with the rest of the United States. Please do not make it a law to have schools offer completely useless elective classes. I want my children to grow up with the best education possible provided by the tax dollars of every hard-working citizen in the state of Kentucky.

Sincerely,

thesmokemonster

[Quantummist]

thesmokemonster wrote:

<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
@Wings of a Dove--- You missed the "y" in "you" after you spelled theory in uppercase letters to point out another person's spelling error! The second quote you made has a spelling error as well. Were you trying to say "the teachers"? You said in another post that you spilled coke on your keyboard and that your "H" key was stuck. These arguments are petty and off-topic. The only thing that I find useful is that it proves that we need to spend more money on the fundamental classes and programs in the educational system in the state of Kentucky.
Dear Kentucky Politicians,
During my time on Topix debating the fact that Kentucky does not need to spend tax dollars on bible study electives, I spent more time reading and huffing at grammar and spelling errors as well as reading pages of argumentative posts about other people's grammar and spelling errors. Why are you wasting your time and our tax dollars trying to promote a bible study elective when it is obvious that we need to spend more money and focus on the basics? Math, science, literature, grammar, art, and technology classes need much improvement for Kentucky students to be on par with the rest of the United States. Please do not make it a law to have schools offer completely useless elective classes. I want my children to grow up with the best education possible provided by the tax dollars of every hard-working citizen in the state of Kentucky.
Sincerely,
thesmokemonster

Yup... Purdy Much....

[Spaceship earth]

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course it has to do with ID.. Without verifiable ID it would be impossible to determine if the person voting is the registered or a citizen...

I think you should be a citizen to vote in this country.

"Kentucky prepares a personalized absentee ballot application for every voter who wishes to vote absentee. Contact your County Clerk and ask them to mail you an absentee ballot application. Your spouse, parents or children can also request an application on your behalf."

http://www.longdistancevoter.org/forms

In California if you are registered county clerk automatically sends out a absentee ballot and you can mail in your vote.

What state will be accused of discouraging some voters to vote?

I think the republicans will commit fraud to win the election if they can, some want civil war, they want to please Jesus.

If it could be proven the democratic party committed fraud to win the election, should Republicans win by default? Would you support that?

[Spaceship earth]

Yes and Amen wrote:

<quoted text>Bull Puppy!
You present ID to get your meds at Wal-mart, beer, and smokes at 7/11... You can show it at the polls!
We just want to stop illegals, from voting for Obama... as they did before!
Voter Fraud is bad no matter the party!

Don't worry Obama will give them amnesty just like Ray-Gun and the Bushes. Just a small technicality. Brush up on your Spanish.

[Satanic Priest]

havent forgotten wrote:

I agree with a lot of your points, and your criticisms, if they apply to the persons who are guilty of those views and behaviors, or of being apologists for the God or the believers who do harmful things in the name of religion. However, I think there is what I would jokingly call a "remnant" of Christians who are decent persons and not the true believer types you attack. I have no idea what the percentage is, and I would really like to see more polls about how many Christians believe in several specific doctrines. I did see one poll that fewer and fewer believe that only folks of their religion go to heaven, but I am not sure whether that meant their denomination or their Christian faith. I want to see a poll about how many Christians believe in a a hot eternal hell, how many believe that one goes there if one is not a believer in their faith, how many believe that there is a good God's plan and we should trust that everything will come out right in the end, how many believe that successful persons in terms of money and status are blessed by god and unsuccessful persons somehow deserved to fail, etc. Do you know of any place where there are polls and results about these questions? I wish someone would do such a poll. Then we would know whether your critical generalizations apply to a majority or a minority of so called Christians. <quoted text>

If every one would try to live by Matthew 25:32-45 the world would be a greater place. I have yet to meet ONE christian that TRIES to live by the words of their christ. Most are too busy looking down their nose at every one else. Poor people are never referred to as "good christians" only the well off, their god is material wealth

[Satanic Priest]

aWitchintheWoods wrote:

<quoted text>
Many (in fact, probably most) humans think that THEIR own lives are "intrinsically" more valuable than other humans...which is the first step into rationalizing genocide, mass murder as justifiable..
<quoted text>
So human life is valuable because YOU are human? I would say you have a bias.
Sorry but this sounds a bit like Hitler saying that Aryan Germans have more value than Jews. Of course, the Jews disagreed...
<quoted text>
But you agree that it would likely say, "Don't make me be born."
Of course we are just making stuff up here. A fetus is not thinking about anything.
<quoted text>
I applaude your Logic regarding many things, especially religion.
You have a thoughtful mind and a wonderful eye with the camera.
<quoted text>
Now you are talking about the Law, not Logic.
But to call a woman who, for her own reasons, decides that she must terminate a pregnancy "the Homicidal" is unconscionable.
You have never been (and never will be) in the situation that she is in.
You will never have to make that decision.
<quoted text>
That's quite a leap....from a woman having the right to have an abortion to eugenics, forced sterilizations, genocide and selective breeding programs.
Women have terminated pregnancies for thousands of years. I'm fairly sure that fact was not what inspired the Hitlers of the world to remake it in their own image.
(Sorry to use the whold "Hitler" thing, but it was easiest and I am tired.)

If a fetus dies before it can accept christ (blah blah blah) does it go to hell?

[Quantummist]

Spaceship earth wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you should be a citizen to vote in this country.
"Kentucky prepares a personalized absentee ballot application for every voter who wishes to vote absentee. Contact your County Clerk and ask them to mail you an absentee ballot application. Your spouse, parents or children can also request an application on your behalf."
http://www.longdistancevoter.org/forms
In California if you are registered county clerk automatically sends out a absentee ballot and you can mail in your vote.
What state will be accused of discouraging some voters to vote?
I think the republicans will commit fraud to win the election if they can, some want civil war, they want to please Jesus.
If it could be proven the democratic party committed fraud to win the election, should Republicans win by default? Would you support that?

I would support that if Fraud is found on either side the fraudulent votes should be removed from the count, even if it is a year after the election and the winner be seated based on the recount after all the numbers are corrected... At that point any votes made by the seated candidate are nullified and any bills passed or not by the vote of a fraudulent seated candidate is nullified and would have to be resubmitted to the floor, If a bill would pass or fail even after a fraudulently seated member of the congress vote was nullified it should stand...

If the Fraud is not due to Voter Fraud and is due to actions of the Candidate then if there were more than One other party in the running the election should be recast.. If there were only One opposing candidate then they should be seated...

And Anyone committing a voter fraud action such as voting using a fake name or info, submitting fake names to the registry, Voter Intimidation, Voter disruption should be Prosecuted to the full extent of the law and not mediated by the Justice Department...

I actually Don't Care what party breaks the Law... But when Any Party breaks the Law or any Individual from any party, they should be prosecuted without exception... And a Jury trial should be the Only method of action , Never should a party in power be able to pick and choose such Election Crimes to prosecute...

[Are You Kidding]

Satanic Priest wrote:

<quoted text>If every one would try to live by Matthew 25:32-45 the world would be a greater place. I have yet to meet ONE christian that TRIES to live by the words of their christ. Most are too busy looking down their nose at every one else. Poor people are never referred to as "good christians" only the well off, their god is material wealth

"I have yet", "Most are", "are never", "only the well off". I just can't understand it. Were you kidnapped by a weird, so called "Christian" cult as a child and chained in the basement? You must have experienced something terrible to be this brainwashed.

The true Christians I know could care less how much money you have. They love one another and help one another with no thought of background or income levels. I am not speaking of one specific location in which I grew up in this type of environment and I am still surrounded by this one group of people. I am speaking of living in 8 cities and attending 8 churches over my lifetime and finding the same type of true Christians in each location. I am not saying everything was perfect all the time, but for the most part, the good far outweighed the bad.

[aWitchintheWoods]

Satanic Priest wrote:

<quoted text>If a fetus dies before it can accept christ (blah blah blah) does it go to hell?

Since we being fanciful, I would like to think that Yahweh recycles and sends those "souls" back into other fetuses. Waste not, you know.....

Hmmm... now that I think about it, yes, that would be what he would do.
Not having had time to learn the hymns, chants and praises, a fetus soul wouldn't be much use to Yahweh who is only interested in being worshipped forever (that being the sole *no pun intended* purpose of heaven).

What do you think? Does Yahweh burn their little "souls" for not having had time to learn what he likes?

[ChromiuMan]

Quantummist wrote:

<quoted text>
You missed the point Mike... Yes he could be lying.. They, the girls, could be lying and yes the court is the last resort of recourse... The only point was that the term Legitimate Rape is a valid term.. maybe a politically incorrect term.. but valid none the less...

Echoes of "didn't build that". When Obama's statements are taken out of intent for purposes of partisan damnation it's all good. When Akin's statement is taken out of intent for purposes of partisan support it's all good.

[Satanic Priest]

aWitchintheWoods wrote:

<quoted text>
Since we being fanciful, I would like to think that Yahweh recycles and sends those "souls" back into other fetuses. Waste not, you know.....
Hmmm... now that I think about it, yes, that would be what he would do.
Not having had time to learn the hymns, chants and praises, a fetus soul wouldn't be much use to Yahweh who is only interested in being worshipped forever (that being the sole *no pun intended* purpose of heaven).
What do you think? Does Yahweh burn their little "souls" for not having had time to learn what he likes?

Well, yahweh did order a lot of baby and children killing so he likes them young.