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Justice
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You seem to place all of this on Mr Higgins. If these four young men didn't have tempers they would have walked away from him and never hit him in the first place. I haven't seen the tape but from what I have read Mr Higgins' punch didn't touch Roscioli anyway. Have you seen the tape? Where you there, I don't think so. Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
How is it that you're a christian and commenting for karma?
Are you nuts?
OK, lets look at your goofy logic...
1.) you are sure that I was corrupt
Based on what? My citing the law?
2.)All my prejudices shaped my
opinion?
I have certifications as a LEO,
as a DJ, and as a Lethal Weapons
Agent in the state of Pa.
I didn't offer my opinions,
I explained the laws.
But since you don't know anything
about it, you have only your
unlearned, uninformed opinion to
hang on to.
3.)When there's four rowdy men
throwing ice tea at your car and
acting up, a sober man would stop
and consider what he's getting
into by himself, not just jump
into a fight.
He would also call the cops and
wait for them, then have the
upper hand to see that he was
compensated for his trouble.
It happens everyday, everywhere.
Just like that, no people die and
the victims aren't arested with
the bad guys. Logically.
4.)"Mr. Higgins, I'm sure, did not
know they were drunk".
Really? How would you know for a
fact if they were hauled in for
underage drinking and furnishing
alcohol to minors and corruption
of minors for supplying a bottle
of tequila .
5.)"BTW they passed the breathalizer
rendering them able to drive".
This article is the only one
that I read so if you read
something somewhere else, it
doesn't matter to me. The fact
remains that these 4 perps were
drinking at the time, and 2
illegally as minors.
If, after some time later,
they passed a breathalyzer and
could drive, its not relevent to
their conduct at the time of the
incident when they were more
under the influence. If you knew
when they were tested, and how,
it might make a difference, but
since they weren't driving at
the time, its a non-point.
6.) Since the article says,
"Police say the older Higgins had
gotten out of his car and accused
Roscioli, Harrison and two 15-
year-olds of throwing a carton of
iced tea on his car near a
pizzeria. Some witnesses said
Higgins, an ex-Marine who saw
combat duty in Vietnam, threw the
first punches, and was knocked to
the ground twice -- once by
Roscioli and once by Harrison --
before a customer at the pizzeria
told Roscioli and the teens to
leave", I'd say hindsight isn't
necessary in saying that Higgins
was a hothead who took matters
into his own hands and it
escalated when his son showed up.
He fell, landed wrong, and died.
It is terrible thing to have happen, but it was almost all Higgins' fault for not using good judgement with obvious bad guys.
The law was on Higgins' side, but he disobeyed it and got the worst of it.
Find something wrong with this, it is the way the law is written and enforced.
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Karma
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Trust me, I know everything about this case and the aftermath. Also, I read your rhetoric a few times and still can't understand you. Hooked oj phonics might be your saving grace. As for me talking about Karma and being a christian, unlike YOU, I respect other religions, however let me say it more plainly, you reap what you sow. Is that more stereotypical of you. You are pathetic. Yes you should kiss all the vets' a$$e$, they gave you the freedom to be this stupid. Why are you speaking about your former career, I can pose the same question. Should I kiss your a$$?? Please, like I said, if you want to attack characters, you are were an angry, prejudice, crack-pot of a cop. The wind blows both ways.... Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
How is it that you're a christian and commenting for karma?
Are you nuts?
OK, lets look at your goofy logic...
1.) you are sure that I was corrupt
Based on what? My citing the law?
2.)All my prejudices shaped my
opinion?
I have certifications as a LEO,
as a DJ, and as a Lethal Weapons
Agent in the state of Pa.
I didn't offer my opinions,
I explained the laws.
But since you don't know anything
about it, you have only your
unlearned, uninformed opinion to
hang on to.
3.)When there's four rowdy men
throwing ice tea at your car and
acting up, a sober man would stop
and consider what he's getting
into by himself, not just jump
into a fight.
He would also call the cops and
wait for them, then have the
upper hand to see that he was
compensated for his trouble.
It happens everyday, everywhere.
Just like that, no people die and
the victims aren't arested with
the bad guys. Logically.
4.)"Mr. Higgins, I'm sure, did not
know they were drunk".
Really? How would you know for a
fact if they were hauled in for
underage drinking and furnishing
alcohol to minors and corruption
of minors for supplying a bottle
of tequila .
5.)"BTW they passed the breathalizer
rendering them able to drive".
This article is the only one
that I read so if you read
something somewhere else, it
doesn't matter to me. The fact
remains that these 4 perps were
drinking at the time, and 2
illegally as minors.
If, after some time later,
they passed a breathalyzer and
could drive, its not relevent to
their conduct at the time of the
incident when they were more
under the influence. If you knew
when they were tested, and how,
it might make a difference, but
since they weren't driving at
the time, its a non-point.
6.) Since the article says,
"Police say the older Higgins had
gotten out of his car and accused
Roscioli, Harrison and two 15-
year-olds of throwing a carton of
iced tea on his car near a
pizzeria. Some witnesses said
Higgins, an ex-Marine who saw
combat duty in Vietnam, threw the
first punches, and was knocked to
the ground twice -- once by
Roscioli and once by Harrison --
before a customer at the pizzeria
told Roscioli and the teens to
leave", I'd say hindsight isn't
necessary in saying that Higgins
was a hothead who took matters
into his own hands and it
escalated when his son showed up.
He fell, landed wrong, and died.
It is terrible thing to have happen, but it was almost all Higgins' fault for not using good judgement with obvious bad guys.
The law was on Higgins' side, but he disobeyed it and got the worst of it.
Find something wrong with this, it is the way the law is written and enforced.
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Karma
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P.S. I hope they took your weapons away, you are definitely a loose canon. Among many other things. Oh and also, couldn't be awful if the Higgins' family could cite you for slander?? Maybe your dishonorably discharge papers would help you in that case right robocop?
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engima
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Why is it that on these local threads that people always try to find some way to blame the victim of the crime? Sad. Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
Karma, my @ss!
There is no such thing as Karma except in Karmann Ghia.
I suppose that you don't eat meat because you think its your Uncle Harry reincarnated???
As for what respect I do have, I WAS a law enforcement officer and arrested over 400 people for varying violations of the law.
I'm certified to know what true legal 'respect' and 'rights' Mr. Higgins has and had before he made the mistake of having a physical confrontation that caused his unfortunate death.
It was NOT his business to extract justice himself.
It was his business to identify these jerks to the police that he should have called to the scene to deal with their behavior.
If you don't believe me, ask the cops and DA.
What happened was stupid on all their parts, but he lost his life.
He won't recover from a mistake like what happened, and neither will his family, sadly.
I deal with idiots in Allentown all the time as a civilian, and I don't do what he did, even when I would love to. My PR neighbors have been telling me for years that I can get shot just for telling someone to lower the noise. I always call the police to be there when its happening. When they come, I'm alive.
I don't punch people over something that I can wash off my car with water in five minutes.
With drunk jerks, you don't throw matches, they're already like gasoline.
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Ahem
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ahem is soooo awesome wrote: self righteousness must feel pretty good judging from your self serving responses... you are all those things you mentioned, that and your insistent 'blathering' proves to all on this board that you sir think most highly of yourself... trouble is people like you will never realize what others see when judging you... to you, you are the only correct one and if others don't see it, you can't understand nor do you care. This is a perfect recipe for an a$$hat... Mr. Higgins is someone you don't know, you did not know his character, yes I did... you make snap judgements based on what you see on the surface... yet you are correct! Just ask yourself, you will be glad to tell yourself just how correct you are..God it even seems you write in prose... tell me where to mail the mirror and I will also mail you a crowbar to get that stick out of your self righteous a$$. But please, I know you have more because you are sooooo correct and need everyone to see your points... carry on, we all are waiting on baited breath!!!!!! What the hell does that have to do with the illegalities that brought about his death??? You people are so caught up in this emotional sop that you don't understand that what he did, as well as the other's, WAS WRONG! That's it! There is no ego about it on my part. I'm citing the law to you while you jerks talk off the top of your heads all your 'feel good' BS. Get over yourselves, your putting the wrong spin on this. He died needlessly!
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Ahem
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Karma wrote: P.S. I hope they took your weapons away, you are definitely a loose canon. Among many other things. Oh and also, couldn't be awful if the Higgins' family could cite you for slander?? Maybe your dishonorably discharge papers would help you in that case right robocop? P*ss off, moron. You are lost with no hope of mental recovery.
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Justice
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Mr Higgins did die needlessly. There is nothing anyone can do to bring him back. I just think his family feels disappointed in the judicial system.
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Lady Day
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Justice, I agree Mr. Higgins did die needlessly in front of his teenage son. I hope that there are additional charges for the assualt of his son that were not included in the plea bargain. My condolences to the family. It stinks but life is just not fair. From what I have heard Mr. Higgins was a kind man. I hope this helps to bring closure for the family. Justice wrote: Mr Higgins did die needlessly. There is nothing anyone can do to bring him back. I just think his family feels disappointed in the judicial system.
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Lady Day
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Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
What the hell does that have to do with the illegalities that brought about his death???
You people are so caught up in this emotional sop that you don't understand that what he did, as well as the other's, WAS WRONG!
That's it!
There is no ego about it on my part.
I'm citing the law to you while you jerks talk off the top of your heads all your 'feel good' BS.
Get over yourselves, your putting the wrong spin on this.
He died needlessly! Since you have more knowledge than me in the law. Would you explain to me how in the recent punching deaths how do the perps. to get off so easily with a plea bargain. Are these difficult crimes to investigate or is it difficult to establish intent? Recently, we are seeing a surge of this type of crime in the courts of the Lehigh Valley. I do not wish to agrue with you or name call. This is a sincere and honest question.
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Karma
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Pot calling the kettle black?? Too bad you can't banter intelligently. I'm sorry for your mild to moderate form of retardation. It's not your fault!!! So sleep well at night and if you would actually like to banter with me, I will again leave you speechless and you will again resort to your old ways of name calling. Love and peace. Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
P*ss off, moron.
You are lost with no hope of mental recovery.
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Ahem
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Lady Day wrote: <quoted text>
Since you have more knowledge than me in the law. Would you explain to me how in the recent punching deaths how do the perps. to get off so easily with a plea bargain. Are these difficult crimes to investigate or is it difficult to establish intent? Recently, we are seeing a surge of this type of crime in the courts of the Lehigh Valley. I do not wish to agrue with you or name call. This is a sincere and honest question. The basis of a plea deal is that the death was unintentional, although reckless and with no regard for the life of Mr. Higgins. All the other charges were brought against each of the others on an individual basis, two adult, two juvenile. These charges were divvied up and dealt with in accordance with the amount of cooperation that they gave, and then charges were reduced accordingly. There was an outside witness besides the son, so that gave the DA a firmer hand in determining who had the most guilt in Higgins' death, although all were guilty as criminal co-conspirators. This is where the two juveniles got off easier. Because juvenile laws are different on a matter like this, they each should be treated differently as well because only the one was responsible for the action that put Higgins onto the pavement for the last time. That kid got charged with aggravated and simple assault and was sent to a detention facility. The other kid didn't particpate and wasn't charged, although he could have been for not acting to stop the fight or call the police. The man who provided the alcohol for all of them remained charged with that due to it being an underlying cause of the whole incident. The both man were charged with involuntary manslaughter, simple assault and reckless endangerment because they were both at fault. The most serious charges, felony counts of aggravated assault, were dropped in order to grease the wheels of a plea deal. The family signed off on the plea deal.
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Ahem
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As an aside, everyone in the system wants these cases to go to a fair plea deal, so that the court calender can keep clear for other cases that will go to trial.
It's so standard, that I'd be amazed that any of the pettier ones even bother to see a courtroom.
For a lot of these 'people' who perpetrate these crimes, as you said, on an increasing number, they're usually 'revolving door' offenders who are in the juvenile system here, or NJ, or NY and beyond it in to adult life.
"Stupid is as stupid does".
We need to break the cycle by having aggressive policing and less social sciencing from our police departments. I know Allentown needs it, but they're not up to it until there's a serious crime committed.
Too many psychologists, not enough cops.
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Ahem
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Karma wrote: Pot calling the kettle black?? Too bad you can't banter intelligently. I'm sorry for your mild to moderate form of retardation. It's not your fault!!! So sleep well at night and if you would actually like to banter with me, I will again leave you speechless and you will again resort to your old ways of name calling. Love and peace.
<quoted text> If only you were speechless, its too much to hope for...
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Lady Day
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Ahem, Thank you for explaining the specifics of this case from a CJA point of view. I understand the crt. process better. If you have some time could you go to the Sean Mitchell/Andrew Gulich plea bargain thread and give me your opionin as to why Gulich was offered a plea bargain. Thank you kindly You are very good (clear and concise) at explaining these cases. Ever thought of being a CJA teacher? Ahem wrote: As an aside, everyone in the system wants these cases to go to a fair plea deal, so that the court calender can keep clear for other cases that will go to trial.
It's so standard, that I'd be amazed that any of the pettier ones even bother to see a courtroom.
For a lot of these 'people' who perpetrate these crimes, as you said, on an increasing number, they're usually 'revolving door' offenders who are in the juvenile system here, or NJ, or NY and beyond it in to adult life.
"Stupid is as stupid does".
We need to break the cycle by having aggressive policing and less social sciencing from our police departments. I know Allentown needs it, but they're not up to it until there's a serious crime committed.
Too many psychologists, not enough cops.
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Lady Day
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Ahem
The other kid didn't particpate and wasn't charged, although he could have been for not acting to stop the fight or call the police.
I did not know that a person has an obligation (legally) to try to stop the fight.
In the Kutztown case, the three guys from Allentown, the driver and people in car were not charged even though they were at the scene of the murder of Kyle Quinn. Is this police discretion or the DA's discretion whether to charge? I believe in the circumstances presented in this case they had a moral obligation to call the police/try to break up fight.
Thank you kindly
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Lady Day
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Sorry my sentence above is misleading, I meant to say the case of the murder of the Kutztown student. The driver and friends in the car were not arrested. They did not do anything to stop the assault.
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2nd amendment
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Second Amendment wrote: <quoted text>
I had the unfortunate privilege in meeting with Andrew Gulich at a party held at a mutual friend’s home just a couple days after his released from the hospital on a drug overdose situation after the murder of Sean Mitchell. He actually had the audacity to brag about the incident explaining how easy it was to kill someone, which made everyone attending the gathering uncomfortable. This monster has no soul, the tears he said he cried was just a veil to disguise his true face, which is nothing short of evil. Moreover, to add to his disgusting boasting of his crime, he exclaimed how the prospect of prison did not frighten him, that he was a real man. Nevertheless, all little boys cry wolf when their most afraid, we will see how boastful he is now when the cell door closes at night; “night-night princess”, there’s a phrase he will get used to soon at night. He stole everything this young man was, could have been, and had the potential of being. In essence, he destroyed an entire universe of possibilities without remorse for a most heinous action. However, what is the scary thing is that his brother is cut from the same cloth and is destine for phenomenal things such as drug addiction, and murder; I say this because he as well joined in the revelry of Mr. Gulich and his boastful attitude towards the murder of Sean Mitchell on the night of the party.
Vote pro Right to Carry. With any luck the next time Gulich tries something like this it will be with an armed citizen who will put him away for good.
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2nd amendment
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Ahem wrote: <quoted text>
The basis of a plea deal is that the death was unintentional, although reckless and with no regard for the life of Mr. Higgins. I'm not at all ok with any plea deal in violent cases.
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2nd amendment
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Ahem wrote: As an aside, everyone in the system wants these cases to go to a fair plea deal, so that the court calender can keep clear for other cases that will go to trial.. Not me! No plea deals in violent offenses! Ahem wrote: We need to break the cycle by having aggressive policing and less social sciencing from our police departments. I know Allentown needs it, but they're not up to it until there's a serious crime committed.
Too many psychologists, not enough cops. Murder isn't a serious crime? Allentown had 21 last year.
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cereal city
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thanks for taking your time ahem,, I understand alot better as well.
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Judge it!
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