Appreciates Coleman for what he is at...

Appreciates Coleman for what he is attempting

There are 55 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Jul 8, 2008, titled Appreciates Coleman for what he is attempting. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

Comments on Topix forums : I would like to thank Stewart Coleman for attempting to do a quality project in downtown Asheville.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

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“Dimensions Beyond Left & Right”

Since: Feb 07

Asheville

#41 Jul 9, 2008
Gordon Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yona,
Our public park land was sold. There are a lot of people who care about it.(Don't make me list all the different groups who oppose this project again!) You can pretend that it's anti-business, but it's not. It's about the public trust and about civic responsibility.
I'm in business. How would I have an anti-business agenda? It's a wonder there's any room left in your house to have a computer, what with all the straw men you keep talking about.
Aw, to hell with it, I'll list the liberal tree-huggers opposed to this project:
Asheville Downtown Association (made up of business owners)
Asheville Preservation Society
Pack Square Conservancy
Buncombe County Democratic Party
Western North Carolina Alliance
Asheville City Council (including Carl Mumpower!)
Buncombe County Commissioners (including Nathan Ramsey!)
Mountain Voices Alliance
PARC
Democracy For America
If you keep saying it's anti-business, tree huggers who are driving the opposition, you'll be lying.
Thanks for this post, Gordon Smith. Its obvious that most business people of Asheville want to keep the park intact. And the issue is just as you say -- the public trust and civic responsibility.

Just to say, I'm not affiliated with any of these groups you name. I'm a citizen, a native of Asheville and I strongly support keeping our public park land public. There is just no getting around the fact that this land belongs to the public to use, in perpetuity, as a park.

Coleman does own land he can build on. Its the site of the Hayes & Hobson building. No one is preventing him for building away on that site. But he seems to be intent on getting what doesn't belong to him. What kind of man with even a shred of personal integrity, true vision and civic responsibility would go this route?
LOKEL

Weaverville, NC

#42 Jul 9, 2008
Gordon Smith wrote:
Actually Richard,
This is almost certainly part of Coleman's PR pushback. No mention of public land at all.
And, Mr. Swicegood, here's some video showing exactly how much public notice was given. Watch it. Then you'll know that you're peddling crap for Coleman by pretending there was a public process.
http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/...
Maybe YOU should navigate over to the Mountain Xpress site where they have posted video of both PUBLIC meetings where the property sale was discussed and ultimately passed.

Unless you portend that the video has been altered in some way.

"Commissioner David Young comments that he thinks the price is good (county staff have since assessed the property value at $544,000). Associate County Attorney Michael Frue briefly explains the location of the property and the circumstances of the sale to the commissioners."
LOKEL

Weaverville, NC

#43 Jul 9, 2008
goforth wrote:
<quoted text>
Correction. It remains public land that was donated by George W. Pack for use by the public in perpetuity -- "public forever." That means it cannot legally be sold off to any private owner. Ever. The county has no authority to sell this land to a private entity and the county knew this. Coleman knew this. That's why it was done in such a low profile manner. Legal? Not even close.
Then -- oops!-- the citizens to whom the land was given, found out about the illegal shenanigans. And the underhanded mess has been brought to the light of day.
So Coleman is still proposing to build on land that does not legally belong to him and can never legally belong to him. And the county is doing a quick shuffle, now attempting to "swap" land that it "sold" to Coleman that canNOT own for land that it does NOT own. How stupid is that?
From the Pack Conservancys' own website:

s the city prepared for the advent of the 21st century, Pack Square began to show signs of wear and tear. In 1999, the street at the east end of the square began to sink because of a leak in an underground water line. It was at that point that a group of downtown supporters formed the Pack Square Renaissance task force and began a discussion about the future of the square and the adjoining City-County Plaza. Their vision and determination and input from citizens launched the process of planning, design and construction of Pack Square Park, work that is now underway. "

Notice that the square is referred to as only that area around the monument and former fountain.

The rest of the land including the Coleman property is "the adjoining city county plaza."

Clearly indicating that he land that is CC Plaza is and was never part of the land that Pack gave the county.

“Dimensions Beyond Left & Right”

Since: Feb 07

Asheville

#44 Jul 9, 2008
LOKEL wrote:
<quoted text>

Notice that the square is referred to as only that area around the monument and former fountain.
The rest of the land including the Coleman property is "the adjoining city county plaza."
Clearly indicating that he land that is CC Plaza is and was never part of the land that Pack gave the county.
Ummm, yes, the site of the old Hayes and Hopson Building -- which Coleman purchased in 2006 and still owns (in the name of an LLC)-- does indeed adjoin City County Plaza. If you look on the Buncombe County GIS, you'll see this. So your point is?

“Dimensions Beyond Left & Right”

Since: Feb 07

Asheville

#45 Jul 9, 2008
LOKEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly indicating that he land that is CC Plaza is and was never part of the land that Pack gave the county.
Lokel, you're using a website as the authority on precisely what land was granted by whom to whom and for what purpose? Perhaps a more definitive answer will be found if you get legal counsel to review the original 1901 legal paperwork for you. And, that's exactly what the Pack family has done. The attorneys obviously realize there is enough evidence to move forward with the lawsuit. IMHO, the court will be far more of an authority on this issue, but you're free to believe a general statement on a website if you want to.
Gordon Smith

Mars Hill, NC

#46 Jul 9, 2008
LOKEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe YOU should navigate over to the Mountain Xpress site where they have posted video of both PUBLIC meetings where the property sale was discussed and ultimately passed.
Unless you portend that the video has been altered in some way.
"Commissioner David Young comments that he thinks the price is good (county staff have since assessed the property value at $544,000). Associate County Attorney Michael Frue briefly explains the location of the property and the circumstances of the sale to the commissioners."
They posted the video that they found at my website, yo. There was no public notice, you'll see, as Chairman Ramsey drops the sale into the agenda at the outset of the Nov. 21, 2006 meeting.
fjcruiserdog

United States

#47 Jul 9, 2008
I propose we get a couple of Mexicans, give them $500 bucks to cut the Magnolia tree on a rainy and windy night. Then the tree gets cut up into little pieces and all the tree huggers can have a little piece of the tree and we are done with this chapter and no more BS about the tree. Now all the activist can concentrate on a new project.
DOT watch

Eddyville, KY

#48 Jul 10, 2008
bruce wayne wrote:
I guess Gordon wants the bunch hanging around that tree,that will soon come down, to be the ones that shape asheville's future. The facts are, those type of people have been shaping asheville's future for too long. That's why we are 20 years behind the rest of the state with highways and infrastructure. If it wasn't for developers asheville would soon pass hendersonville, on the way down. Then Gordon and his ilk would be happy.
Clarification: the policy of never-ending inaction on the part of the very ineffectual DOT is the cause of any infrastructure delays. Talk about a good ole boy system ....
Play Fair

Eddyville, KY

#49 Jul 10, 2008
fjcruiserdog wrote:
I propose we get a couple of Mexicans, give them $500 bucks to cut the Magnolia tree on a rainy and windy night. Then the tree gets cut up into little pieces and all the tree huggers can have a little piece of the tree and we are done with this chapter and no more BS about the tree. Now all the activist can concentrate on a new project.
"The magnolia tree" is not the real issue. It has become the focus of one small group of people. They happen to be a group which is an easy target because they are different. Let's just leave the magnolia tree out of the discussion and focus on the real issues. Is this public land part of the parcel from the Packs intended to be parkland? Will Coleman's proposed building (squeezing into a public park?) block a significant view of one of the most important architectural jewels in western North Carolina? Look at the big picture. This isn't about tree huggers. Is Nathan Ramsey a tree hugger?(The Ramsey family situation with the Cliffs at High Carolina would seem to indicate otherwise, yet Ramsey opposes the Parkside project ... according to the posts I'm reading.) David Gannt should have caught this sale and questioned it. He is a county commissioner and sits on the board of directors of the Pack Square Conservancy.
bruce wayne

Hendersonville, NC

#50 Jul 10, 2008
DOT watch wrote:
<quoted text>
Clarification: the policy of never-ending inaction on the part of the very ineffectual DOT is the cause of any infrastructure delays. Talk about a good ole boy system ....
The I-240 connector with I-26 would be complete today if it were not for the stalling tactics of the leni sicknik led city council years ago. The current council is no better with what I have seen.

Since: Feb 08

Lincolnton, NC

#52 Sep 14, 2008
This sounds like a private matter between you and the Swicegood family. Kids can do some really dumb things at that age and this needs to be resolved between the parties involved. Not on the internet. I understand your aggravation but this is something that you need to handle with the parties involved. JMHO
R Bernier

Greenville, SC

#53 Sep 14, 2008
Were is Wanda Green in this matter? Is she not the one who offered this property for sale to begin with?

Is she still working for the County?

If so, WHY?

Since: Jan 08

Newton, NC

#54 Sep 15, 2008
Richard,

Maybe you ought to ask Nathan Ramsey?

Since: Feb 08

Lincolnton, NC

#56 Sep 15, 2008
yona wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if you are pranking, in which case not very funny, or a serious. However I spoke with Carr on Friday about the gas prices. He was at his Market Center location on Hendersonville Rd.
As for dirty phone calls. Try really hard to think back to your youth and then ask your husband. Most boys, that weren't complete nerds phone pranked at some point. There were a series of CDs put out by a group that made a living pranking. They even made a low budget movie, which lost money. Unless the comments violated the law, then I really think you are making a bit much of this.
I agree with your wanting to talk to his parents, but actively trying to slander him in a public forum is a bad idea on your part.
Exactly. If people posted every prank that some young teen was a part of, can you imagine the forum? This is a matter that needs to be resolved between the parents regarding this.
buncy

Maxton, NC

#61 Sep 27, 2008
Woof!

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