County on brink of landmark railroad purchase, but can we affor...

[da_trestle_da_tr estle]

Beg to differ. The line is in terrible shape. You don't have 6 derailments on a short line with speed already under 20 mph on track that is in good shape. The brdges are dangerous, not just okay.

Ask one of the retired UP people about it. It's a mess that UP would love to dump on the county. They have let it run down for decades.

The county full well knows the true cost of the deferred maintenence. They are lying through their teeth and hiding this from residents.

NMG wrote:

<quoted text>
Thats inaccurate. There are several cars of lumber that travel through santa cruz to felton every week. And the cement plant is going to re open anyways....
And the roadbed is not actually in that bad of shape- from a railroaders perspective. It is certainly no high speed railroad but with minimal work it will be good for 20 MPH.

[da_trestle_da_tr estle]

Geez, you people act like this just came up and people are evaluating it as a concept.

It's been studied in detail. It will cost a fortune and that is being hidden by the county bureaucrats who could give a rat's ass about the tax burden when all the problems are "discovered".

If you are really interested, go to the Transportation website and find the reports that were done on how much it will cost to get it back to specs suitable for freight traffic much less other uses.

$$$$$$$$$$

It would be great to have a bike path, also a trolley system, there are lots of great ideas. But it's a fortune and unlike a lot of other towns, our RR goes over a bunch of bridges and crossings that are problematic.

Ron - Capitola wrote:

This article has surfaced so much angst on many issues unrelated or marginally related to the issue. There appears to be a lack of understanding overall of benefits to shared use, or shall I say "new" shared use. Public roads are shared use, and they require tens of millions of dollars annually to upkeep. Are you complaining about those pathways?

[Coastsider52]

Services are being cut at schools, libraries and parks; college fees are escalating; roads are rutted with potholes; salaries are being cut; unemployment is up; gangs are killing or maiming our kids; and the transportation chief wants to buy a railroad?

[stinger]

DUMB, DUMB< DUMB!!!!!!!!!!

A bottomless pit of expense and liability.

[Harrison]

"Will the county be obligated under current freight service to maintain and possibly rebuild these trestles. "

Sure will and the Union Pacific will laugh all the way to the bank.

When the cement plant re-opens and the railroad is gone equals more trucks on Mission. Wasn't a person killed near bay in the last year by a cement truck.

[eric d]

richinrio wrote:

On a daily basis my mind is boggled with countless stories of government waste and incompetence. This boondoggle will dwarf all of them by leaps and bounds.
I shant bore you to tears with the FACTS regarding the fiscal folly of light rail nationwide. I won't recite the FACTS of AMTRAK and it's frightful mismanagement.
Lets just put it into a simple format so even the dullest among you can realize what a farking fiasco this will be.
Walk the tracks. That's right. Walk the tracks.
Now a word of caution. Since those of you who are in favor of this clearly have your heads so far up your rectum ( technical term is RECTAL CRANIUM INVERSION ) it will be difficult to hear any freight trains coming...I will offer to walk along with you to ensure your safety from any trains.
Why do I want you to walk the tracks? Simple.
To see the filth, the graffiti, the broken glass, the litter, the aftermath of that element of our society here in the Santa Cruz area that loiters and uses the rail corridor for their personal brand of mayhem.
Now, imagine if you will a pristine stretch of paved bike trail. 32 million dollars worth ( which in of itself is so shocking it makes me want to hurl....but the real joke is when they are finally done we will wish it was only 32 million ) of asphalt running from one end of the county to the other.
The Utopian view of this is the ability of those wishing to ride bicycles... will be able to do so without cars endangering them on their rides. Just the carbon free bike riders transporting their fluffy bunnies while delivering food to the homeless. Such a lovely picture.
Lets be real. Graffiti will cover every square inch of that roadway. Broken glass and trash will make it impossible for anyone to ride their bike unless the wheels are made of Kevlar.
As the problem worsens a committee will be formed made up of concerned citizens against a filthy rail trail, an advisory board will examine the problem and determine that what needs to be done is to have a task force assembled and a new department of public works will be created to go out daily and sweep, and clean, and cover up the graffiti from the night before.
Homeless advocates and civil rights attorneys will come to the defense of those whose " art " is being covered up and sue the county for the destruction of public art.
The decision will be made to allow for public walls to be built so those " artists " can freely contribute to the social fabric thus enabling Santa Cruz to fulfill it's stated desire to stay weird.
Meanwhile those of us who actually get stuck with this fiscal abortion will be vomiting into our cereal bowls as we recoil from the real costs of this idiotic fantasy desired by a handful of bike riding zealots.
Make the rail trail a toll road and make those who want this stupid path pay for it themselves.
Oh I'm sorry...just a light moment of levity there.
Typical example of a program designed for a handful and paid for by the majority that will be over-budget, poorly planned and executed, just like every other socialist notion of putting your heart before your brain.

Rush Limbaugh ^^^

[Let Them Blow]

Future wrote:

If you anti-auto folks are correct and oil prices skyrocket enough to auto use, we will have tons of roads, freeways and sidewalks for bicycling and pedestrians. Thus the purchase is a folly.
- The fact is that the purchase MUST be used for rail. If not, then these funds cannot be used for the purchase, which is specifically what the voters indicated.
You people advocating for a trail only are fraudulent in representing that a rail-trial and frieght line are the real goals. Liars to be more accurate. This includes the bulk of the SCCRTC who are hoping to buy this, see the whole rail collapse (at what expense to the buyers?), and then oh boy, we have a right of way bicycle trail.
Wrong. Liar, liar bikes on fire.

The trail-pushers are not liars...they are simply being lied to.

[Let Them Blow]

Mojo95062 wrote:

<quoted text>
So this means that there is a minimum o 25 feet to either side of the track CL. Let's break that down:
the track gauge (distance between the rails) is 4'8/12" (56.5 inches) which means you have taken 28.25 inches out of use (from the track Center Line (CL)). the cross ties are 9'6" inches long. So rather than 28.25 inches to either side of the track CL, you now have 4'8" to either side of the track CL now you are down to 21' 4" of space outside the tracks.
Now let's put a train on those tracks. a locomotive is about 10 feet wide (I've seen the plans and I build models of what I see). Now you are down to 20 feet on each side of the track CL. But wait, there's more. You need to allow for drainage of the track structure, on BOTH sides of the roadbed. The roadbed has a beveled shoulder that extends out from the beyond the ends of the cross ties.
To check what I am referring to, one should check one of the narrower portions of the right of way. I refer you to the stretch of rail between Seabright and the harbor bridge. Speaking of bridges, how are you going to lay the trail in on those? You also need to control pedestrian access at grade crossings. People on bikes won't actuate the existing crossing equipment, and doing something like blowing a police whistle on approach to the crossing will likely only get you funny looks from passing motorists.

Look I don't give a crap about any of those stats or going to google to check out the maps view....I live along the tracks. My balcony extends towards the tracks. I can toss the train engineer a beer when he passes by, it is that close. There simply isn't enough room for a train service AND a bike trail along the same set of tracks. It wasn't designed for that.

[YeeHaw]

I say GO FOR IT!!

Real Estate is down right now, this is the time to make a deal. In 100 years people will think that we did the right thing. Currently it may seem expensive, but in the long run it IS THE RIGHT MOVE SO GO FOR IT!!!

[Let Them Blow]

Xanthippe wrote:

<quoted text>
Every gallon of gasoline that is bought in California is taxed quite heavily. How can you say that roads are subsidized? Who are they subsidized by?
18 cents per gallon to the state (used to go to roads only, now they go in the General Fund), 18.4 cents per gallon to the feds (federal excise tax), 1.2 cents per gallon for underground storage tanks, on top of that sales tax of what, 8.5% in Santa Cruz.
You know what is subsidized? Bike lanes. Bus routes. Trains.
Not roads.

Agreed. Roads and highways are fully funded through gas taxes. Public bus and train systems are the most heavily subsidized operations in existence and do not even approach full funding from user revenues.

[YeeHaw]

Future generations of Santa Cruz residents will look back and think that transportation planner Luis Mendez made a good decision. We must think LONG-TERM NOT SHORT-TERM. Long term thinking benefits the community, short-term thinking benefits only those interested in themselves. Let's think long-term.

-----

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."

--Albert Einstein.

[eric d]

Based upon everything I've seen,when the means exist for getting around by bicycle (or foot skate etc.), people will use it!
Just take a look at all of the traffic on the new bike/pedestrian bridge over the San Lorenzo. Everyday, I am amazed at the amount of people I see commuting by bicycle lately. I don't know if it is because of high gas prices or just a desire to get out of the daily grind of driving to work.
The only thing I know for certain is that at some point, simply widening the freeways will no longer be a sustainable means of addressing our transportation needs.
Purchasing the rail corridor is a good start to get the ball rolling in the right direction.
The difficult part is overcoming the enormous activation energy of public support required to make it happen.
And, like any other example I've ever seen, this can only be accomplished one step at a time.
Let's get it done!

[Reality Check]

The new bike/pedestrian bridge is used by the homeless or perhaps the government subsidized 'artists' at the TAC.
I used to bike from the eastside to Capitola for work. Doable, but I'd arrive in 3x the time of a drive, and sweaty from the ride. If I had a lunch meeting at a remote location - no deal. The rail trail would not have helped. Only hard core bikers would go from the westside to Aptos.
It would be great if it was a real transportation corridor vs. a leisure trail, but it simply won't be.

[nocklebeast]

You can get your bicycle license at the City of Santa Cruz Finance Department at 809 Center Street.

yikes wrote:

It sounds like it's time for bicycle licensing and registration.

[nocklebeast]

In Santa Cruz local road maintenance is also paid for by local sales taxes.

Xanthippe wrote:

<quoted text>
Every gallon of gasoline that is bought in California is taxed quite heavily. How can you say that roads are subsidized? Who are they subsidized by?
18 cents per gallon to the state (used to go to roads only, now they go in the General Fund), 18.4 cents per gallon to the feds (federal excise tax), 1.2 cents per gallon for underground storage tanks, on top of that sales tax of what, 8.5% in Santa Cruz.
You know what is subsidized? Bike lanes. Bus routes. Trains.
Not roads.

[Alan]

Let Them Blow wrote:

<quoted text>No it doesn't. Should I attach a picture? Oh wait...I can't.

A deed with the meets & bounds would be better, a picture doesnt show property lines!

[nocklebeast]

Roads and highways are paid for by sales and income taxes as well as gas taxes.

Didn't you vote for Measure H?

Let Them Blow wrote:

<quoted text> Agreed. Roads and highways are fully funded through gas taxes. Public bus and train systems are the most heavily subsidized operations in existence and do not even approach full funding from user revenues.

[Xanthippe]

YeeHaw wrote:

Future generations of Santa Cruz residents will look back and think that transportation planner Luis Mendez made a good decision. We must think LONG-TERM NOT SHORT-TERM. Long term thinking benefits the community, short-term thinking benefits only those interested in themselves. Let's think long-term.
-----
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."
--Albert Einstein.

Let me see if I understand your points. Those concerned with increasing the tax burden upon future generations are only thinking in the short term, while those who want to go ahead with this poorly-thought-out rail trail are thinking in the long term, and those who oppose the rail trail are stupid.

Meanwhile, there is nothing to persuade or convince anyone that this is a good idea or will result in great benefit to our community, at a reasonable cost.

Who is thinking long term and who is stupid, again?

[Duh]

Of course you can afford to purchase the old rail line and spend tens of millions of taxpater dollars to up grade it as a combo pedestrian bicycle tourist rreolley! Why this is the Obama Nation and Socialist programs know no bounds! Plenty of money for all!

[Driftwad]

"We've been very successful with our fundraising," said Peggy Mandeville, a San Luis Obispo planner who is managing the rail-trail effort there. Nearly 40 percent of the project's funding thus far has come from outside grants, while the city was creative about getting the rest, including holding fundraisers and using developer fees.

In San Clemente, meanwhile, nearly two-thirds of the trail was paid for with state and federal funds, planners there say. Local money covered most of the balance.

Hey! Now SC can be just like our sourthern California neighbors!!! What a great idea! We can be like San Clemente!...What a beautiful place San Clemente is...now we can be just like them and have a "tourist train". I can't wait...we should rename Santa Cruz...How about.."Ventura-by-the-Se a"!
I believe this Tourist train will solve many financial woes because it will bring in SO MUCH MORE badly needed tourist money then we can fill the vacancies in the SC Sheriffs department...let's see? 28 sheriff positions are open becauses "SC is broke"...that's what the SC supervisors tell us...so spending tax payer dollars on this train will solve all our financial problems AND we'll be as beautiful as San Clemente!!!!
OH WAIT! We "MAY" beable to get State and Federal grants! REALLY? That should be a no brainer because the State of California (not to mentione the Feds) coffers are just stuffed with money to give away to projects like this...NOT! Are we expected to fall for this B.S.?