Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71944 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#72361 Apr 23, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
True. The golden rule has some flaws. I think it is better replaced by a set of two rules:
1. Do no harm
2. Do unto others as they would do unto themselves
In essence, treat people the way they want to be treated, with the caveat that you are not to do any harm to them or others.
Words can't be tricky.

Some people may be harmed by something that other people don't. It's matter of people sensibility.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72362 Apr 23, 2014
ERIC,

I am not here to placate you with sweet nods nor pamper your ego.

You can stay within the limitations of philosophies, not me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72365 Apr 23, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I make that claim? Hint - I didnt.
And when did authors ever write their titles?
Read the actual descriptions. Thats why I posted the links. Its all about that, from the Jewish perspective, NONE of this is new. Thats the point.
<quoted text>
Again, you are going into straw man tangents
You cited a whole lot about supposedly what Jews believe. Instead of labeling that plainly superficial, and backing it up with my opinion, I chose to cite actual references that support my view. I can easily cite 3 more books that dont use the word radical....Thats not changing the goal posts.
Remember, it was you that asked what I meant by a God concept. Its you who seem to be fixated on what a God concept "should be", not us Jews. We have flexibility, as supported by those works. And others.
Needless to say, one can always cherry pick the literature to find that which they agree with or supports their position.

But this neither makes their take on things mainstream nor generally accepted by the rest of the flock.

I can find priests that say it's ok to marry or whatever but this is not the way the church sees it. Nor the rest of the parish. Nor 99% of fellow Catholics.(And some of these priests may written books.)

I post the opening paragraphs of much longer articles......by necessity, yes they begin in a very general way, much like our essays did in HS and college.

We have religious folks, theists, who believe in god (or a god concept if you prefer) and we have nonreligious folks who don't. Whether one goes to church or joins a club is beside the point in my view.

I don't say should or prescribe how something should be. I just want to keep it honest and call it what it is.

We went back and forth on this for a while back and my conclusion was essentially the same and you didn't disagree with me at the time.

So why now? You can meditate and be a good person without being a part of an organized religion. It works for you. And you wouldn't go if all those texts and traditions didn't hold meaning for you. And if you thought some old folks just made all that shxt up 6000 years ago it wouldn't be quite be the same.

You believe in god, or if you prefer a god concept.

We've done all this before. Shalom.
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

#72366 Apr 23, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
ERIC,
I am not here to placate you with sweet nods nor pamper your ego.
You can stay within the limitations of philosophies, not me.
No, you are here but to give yourself platitudes by judging your own posts.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72367 Apr 23, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Two more books - without "radical"
http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Life-God-Dis...
The Secret Life of God: Discovering the Divine within You
http://www.amazon.com/Way-Into-Encountering-G...
The Way Into Encountering God in Judaism
The first book is written by a rabbi about how to better experience god without all these preconceived notions of what we were taught or thought god was or should be.

"Awakened to finally experience a personal connection to God, we are at last able to receive God's love unconditionally and discover our ultimate identity, divine purpose, and true happiness."

Maybe I've lost the point.

Are you saying the author is not a theist? That he writes a book about connecting to god but doesn't believe there is a god?

I thought your articles were countering the definitions I posted of god concept, theist, jewish god concept etc.....right?

You were trying to say that you were not a theist because your belief in god is a little looser than some, correct? I think that's the part I wasn't quite buying. To me, you are a theist and think to most folks you would be.

Bottom line.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72368 Apr 23, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I think where you miss on all of this is that it was NEVER my intent to argue for the existence or non existence of God.......>
Nor mine. Not this time anyway.

I see what our wires got crossed here.

On the previous page we had the following exchange:

Frijoles: But to narrowly focus on your question - I would think you would need some type of god concept to be Jewish. Not necessarily theism, but something. Humanism crosses a red line.

FR: Judaism is considered a monotheistic religion. Theistic.
Also one is a theist or an atheist - the old binary switch is on or it isn't.(With gnostic vs agnostic question to quickly follow..) Again, boundaries, basic truths.

Guess I'm still not clear (or don't agree with) the "god concept" vs theism difference.

Otherwise, maybe I'm just being t0o strict and can go ahead and call myself Catholic or Christian. Perhaps I'm taking them too much at their word and respecting the religion and beliefs too much to still call myself one of them??

__________

I then posted 3 sources to more or less support or add to my side. Or so I thought.

And you responded to one of them. Which wasn't really my main point.

We got off on what Jews believe vs what makes one a theist.

Any religion can be defined more loosely than the old school. I see lots of leeway.

Hope this helps.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72369 Apr 23, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
True. The golden rule has some flaws. I think it is better replaced by a set of two rules:
1. Do no harm
2. Do unto others as they would do unto themselves
In essence, treat people the way they want to be treated, with the caveat that you are not to do any harm to them or others.
Yeah that's the Silver Rule, the one my libertarian father in law believes in.

He says more or less "Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone." Ayn Rand and all that.

He doesn't like the proactive approach of the Golden Rule.

Your part 2 might be a problem for him if it means food stamps, welfare etc.

So maybe it's a bad fit for you after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Rule

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72370 Apr 23, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The first book is written by a rabbi about how to better experience god without all these preconceived notions of what we were taught or thought god was or should be.
"Awakened to finally experience a personal connection to God, we are at last able to receive God's love unconditionally and discover our ultimate identity, divine purpose, and true happiness."
Maybe I've lost the point.
Are you saying the author is not a theist? That he writes a book about connecting to god but doesn't believe there is a god?
I thought your articles were countering the definitions I posted of god concept, theist, jewish god concept etc.....right?
You were trying to say that you were not a theist because your belief in god is a little looser than some, correct? I think that's the part I wasn't quite buying. To me, you are a theist and think to most folks you would be.
Bottom line.
Three of those four books are by authors who are not strict theists. All four Rabbis are very well known, they are not considered outliers by any account. The books represent 3 of the four major movements Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstructionist.

The point being (addressing your previous post), this IS mainstream. Go into ANY synagogue today that has adult education classes and these concepts will be discussed. This wasnt true 30 years ago.

Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

#72371 Apr 23, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
TYPO
At the IMO, South Korean students are grabbing the top slots and two years ago a team of 6 high schoolers bagged the world number ONE slot at the IMO.
And an individual gold medal this year went to a kid who graduated from the same high school as my son. The US team received 4 gold and 2 silver.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72372 Apr 23, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor mine. Not this time anyway.
I see what our wires got crossed here.
On the previous page we had the following exchange:
Frijoles: But to narrowly focus on your question - I would think you would need some type of god concept to be Jewish. Not necessarily theism, but something. Humanism crosses a red line.
FR: Judaism is considered a monotheistic religion. Theistic.
Also one is a theist or an atheist - the old binary switch is on or it isn't.(With gnostic vs agnostic question to quickly follow..) Again, boundaries, basic truths.
Guess I'm still not clear (or don't agree with) the "god concept" vs theism difference.
Otherwise, maybe I'm just being t0o strict and can go ahead and call myself Catholic or Christian. Perhaps I'm taking them too much at their word and respecting the religion and beliefs too much to still call myself one of them??
__________
I then posted 3 sources to more or less support or add to my side. Or so I thought.
And you responded to one of them. Which wasn't really my main point.
We got off on what Jews believe vs what makes one a theist.
Any religion can be defined more loosely than the old school. I see lots of leeway.
Hope this helps.
I take issue with your interpretation of this statement "Judaism is considered a monotheistic religion..."

When that is quoted, the emphasis is on MONO. To contrast with Christianity, where (wrongly or rightly) Judaism views as polytheistic.

The fact that "theism" is part of the term is because the term itself is a simplification that ignores the subtlety of Jewish theology - which is diverse - and NOT only includes conventional theism but panentheism, pantheism, nonduality etc etc - WHICH are not necessarily theologically opposite of theism - depending on the flavor they are different paradigms altogether.

The important part is the MONO. Which is why the most important prayer in the Jewish religion is the Shema (Hear o Israel, the lord our God, the lord is One). The emphasis is on the one, and when you recite the prayer, you emphasis the word one (in Hebrew - echad). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72376 Apr 23, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

And an individual gold medal this year went to a kid who graduated from the same high school as my son. The US team received 4 gold and 2 silver.
IMO 2014 will be held in Cape Town, South Africa, on 3-13 July, 2014.

At IMO 2013, the US team (4 out of 6 team members were Asians) ranked 3rd and bagged 4 Gold medals and 2 Silver medals.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72377 Apr 23, 2014
US TEAM MEMBERS AT IMO 2013:

1) Mark Sellke - Gold

2) Bobby Shen - Gold

3) James Tao - Gold

4) Victor Wang - Gold

5) Ray Li - Silver

6) Thomas Swayze - Silver

(4 out of the 6 US team members are Chinese - LOL).

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72379 Apr 23, 2014
US TEAM MEMBERS AT IMO 2012:

1) Bobby Shen - Gold

2) David Yang - Gold

3) Thomas Swayze - Gold

4) Mitchell Lee - Gold

5) Ravi Jagadeesan - Gold

6) Xiaoyu He - Silver

(5 out of the 6 US team members are Asians - LOL)

(US Team Leader: Zuming Feng, Deputy Team Leader: Po-Shen Loh

US team ranked 3rd at IMO 2012 after South Korea and China.
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

#72380 Apr 23, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
US TEAM MEMBERS AT IMO 2013:
1) Mark Sellke - Gold
2) Bobby Shen - Gold
3) James Tao - Gold
4) Victor Wang - Gold
5) Ray Li - Silver
6) Thomas Swayze - Silver
(4 out of the 6 US team members are Chinese - LOL).
No, 6 out of 6 are Americans. One of them went to the same high school as my son. Do you want to see birth certificates or what?
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

#72381 Apr 23, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
US TEAM MEMBERS AT IMO 2012:
1) Bobby Shen - Gold
2) David Yang - Gold
3) Thomas Swayze - Gold
4) Mitchell Lee - Gold
5) Ravi Jagadeesan - Gold
6) Xiaoyu He - Silver
(5 out of the 6 US team members are Asians - LOL)
(US Team Leader: Zuming Feng, Deputy Team Leader: Po-Shen Loh
US team ranked 3rd at IMO 2012 after South Korea and China.
And India with its great school that you laud has never placed higher than 7th.( 29 11 23 36 28 31 25 35 36 14 15 9 7 14 18 7 15 14 14 16 15 21 10 17 25) If Indian schools are so great, why do their students score so low?

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72382 Apr 23, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

No, 6 out of 6 are Americans. One of them went to the same high school as my son. Do you want to see birth certificates or what?
Chinese by birth, American by citizenship.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72383 Apr 23, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

And India with its great school that you laud has never placed higher than 7th.( 29 11 23 36 28 31 25 35 36 14 15 9 7 14 18 7 15 14 14 16 15 21 10 17 25) If Indian schools are so great, why do their students score so low?
Yes, that's surprising.

One reason is that the IMO syllabus is quite different from the IIT JEE syllabus in some ways and to prepare for the IIT JEE one needs to work hard on Math, Physics and Chem and do exceedingly well at the entrance in all the 3 subjects to get a high rank.

However, India does very well at the IPhO (International Physics Olympiad) and placed 4th some years ago. India also does well at IChO.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72385 Apr 23, 2014
IIT JEE MATH SYLLABUS

PART 2:

Differential calculus

Real valued functions of a real variable, into, onto and one-to-one functions, sum, difference, product and quotient of two functions, composite functions, absolute value, polynomial, rational, trigonometric, exponential and logarithmic functions.

Limit and continuity of a function, limit and continuity of the sum, difference, product and quotient of two functions, L'Hospital rule of evaluation of limits of functions.

Even and odd functions, inverse of a function, continuity of composite functions, intermediate value property of continuous functions.

Derivative of a function, derivative of the sum, difference, product and quotient of two functions, chain rule, derivatives of polynomial, rational, trigonometric, inverse trigonometric, exponential and logarithmic functions.

Derivatives of implicit functions, derivatives up to order two, geometrical interpretation of the derivative, tangents and normals, increasing and decreasing functions, maximum and minimum values of a function, applications of Rolle's Theorem and Lagrange's Mean Value Theorem.

Integral calculus

Integration as the inverse process of differentiation, indefinite integrals of standard functions, definite integrals and their properties, application of the Fundamental Theorem of Integral Calculus.

Integration by parts, integration by the methods of substitution and partial fractions, application of definite integrals to the determination of areas involving simple curves.

Formation of ordinary differential equations, solution of homogeneous differential equations, variables separable method, linear first order differential equations.

Vectors

Addition of vectors, scalar multiplication, scalar products, dot and cross products, scalar triple products and their geometrical interpretations.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72386 Apr 23, 2014
IIT JEE MATH SYLLABUS

PART 3

Algebra of complex numbers, addition, multiplication, conjugation, polar representation, properties of modulus and principal argument, triangle inequality, cube roots of unity, geometric interpretations.

Quadratic equations with real coefficients, relations between roots and coefficients, formation of quadratic equations with given roots, symmetric functions of roots.

Arithmetic, geometric and harmonic progressions, arithmetic, geometric and harmonic means, sums of finite arithmetic and geometric progressions, infinite geometric series, sums of squares and cubes of the first n natural numbers.

Logarithms and their properties.

Permutations and combinations, Binomial theorem for a positive integral index, properties of binomial coefficients.

Matrices as a rectangular array of real numbers, equality of matrices, addition, multiplication by a scalar and product of matrices, transpose of a matrix, determinant of a square matrix of order up to three, inverse of a square matrix of order up to three, properties of these matrix operations, diagonal, symmetric and skew-symmetric matrices and their properties, solutions of simultaneous linear equations in two or three variables.

Addition and multiplication rules of probability, conditional probability, independence of events, computation of probability of events using permutations and combinations.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72387 Apr 23, 2014
IIT JEE MATH SYLLABUS

PART 4

Trigonometric functions, their periodicity and graphs, addition and subtraction formulae, formulae involving multiple and sub-multiple angles, general solution of trigonometric equations.

Relations between sides and angles of a triangle, sine rule, cosine rule, half-angle formula and the area of a triangle, inverse trigonometric functions (principal value only).

Analytical geometry

Two dimensions: Cartesian coordinates, distance between two points, section formulae, shift of origin.

Equation of a straight line in various forms, angle between two lines, distance of a point from a line. Lines through the point of intersection of two given lines, equation of the bisector of the angle between two lines, concurrency of lines, centroid, orthocentre, incentre and circumcentre of a triangle.

Equation of a circle in various forms, equations of tangent, normal and chord.

Parametric equations of a circle, intersection of a circle with a straight line or a circle, equation of a circle through the points of intersection of two circles and those of a circle and a straight line.

Equations of a parabola, ellipse and hyperbola in standard form, their foci, directrices and eccentricity, parametric equations, equations of tangent and normal.

Locus Problems.

Three dimensions: Direction cosines and direction ratios, equation of a straight line in space, equation of a plane, distance of a point from a plane.

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