Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72030 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66399 Jan 26, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: becoming alleged jewish, is by conversion only. everyone at mt seeanee, were all converts. being eevareem, is by linage only. the alleged term jew, applies to the multitudes that left egypt. all religion is determined, by the g-d/s they believe in.
Adam---rabbee: becoming alleged jewish, is by conversion only. everyone at mt seeanee, were all converts.

HughBe--- I see, please explain these texts---

1. "And the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way" Genesis 45:21

2. "And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn." Genesis 46:8

3. "And ISRAEL dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and THEY had possessions therein, and GREW, and multiplied exceedingly."

A correct understanding of those texts should be enough to lighten your darkness.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66400 Jan 26, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
In other words, they made the sht up
Simplifying your words for you, YOU are saying that your JEWISH forefathers made it up, ok.

Note, I hold a different position but I believe that your utterance was not based on malice but was based on personal observations of how things work in your religious community.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66401 Jan 26, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Simplifying your words for you, YOU are saying that your JEWISH forefathers made it up, ok.
Note, I hold a different position but I believe that your utterance was not based on malice but was based on personal observations of how things work in your religious community.
All the "evidence" comes from the NT, and it is contradictory. Furthermore,(nonJewish) scholars agree that it is specious. Has nothing to do with what Jewish forefathers thought.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66402 Jan 26, 2014
Not just that - you didnt even attempt to provide this info. I had to provide it to you.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66403 Jan 26, 2014
Arguing the detail of the life and geneology of Jeesus is a little like arguing whether unicorn horns twist clockwise or anti-clockwise.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#66404 Jan 26, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
Thats all interesting and everything, but there is no evidence presented that Mary was a descendant of David.
rabbee: then you have no proof, for or against it. so why are you arguing, after all apparently it is the jews and romans fault there are christians today. so you, ain't got nothing to complain about.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#66405 Jan 26, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
Arguing the detail of the life and geneology of Jeesus is a little like arguing whether unicorn horns twist clockwise or anti-clockwise.
rabbee: don't be silly mr bean, everyone knows that unicorns are clock wise. they, even knew when it was time to disappear.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#66406 Jan 26, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Adam---rabbee: becoming alleged jewish, is by conversion only. everyone at mt seeanee, were all converts.
HughBe--- I see, please explain these texts---
1. "And the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way" Genesis 45:21
2. "And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn." Genesis 46:8
3. "And ISRAEL dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and THEY had possessions therein, and GREW, and multiplied exceedingly."
A correct understanding of those texts should be enough to lighten your darkness.
rabbee: that is before the enslavement, not after the enslavement. so you are cherry picking, in the wrong place.

from out of Shemos Bo:'(The Children of Yesrael journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about 600,000 men on foot, aside from children. also a mixed multitude went up with them, and flock and cattle, very much livestock.)'

so this alone blows your cherry picking untimely premature mythicizing, out of the water.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66408 Jan 27, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
Arguing the detail of the life and geneology of Jeesus is a little like arguing whether unicorn horns twist clockwise or anti-clockwise.
True, but it is fun to beat up on the Jamaican homophobe.

We waited about THREE MONTHS (my guess) for him to provide his answer, and in the end I had to provide it FOR HIM.

And then debunk it.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66410 Jan 27, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
Arguing the detail of the life and geneology of Jeesus is a little like arguing whether unicorn horns twist clockwise or anti-clockwise.
Is this different than arguing about Judaism or anything from the Old Testament?

Fair is fair.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66411 Jan 27, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Then explain Sammy Davis Junior.
HughBe---- Let me use the words of a JEW or Eric to answer or explain it to you. Please read with understanding.
Eric---"Being Semitic has NOTHING to do with religion."
HughBe---Sammy was NOT Semitic and so was NOT Jewish or Semitic.
Eric---"Being a Muslim is being a member of Islam, a religion"
HughBe--- Sammy was a member of Judaism, a religion, and this "has NOTHING to do with" being Jewish or Semitic.
Well, he did kind of talk (and sing) with his hands.

But of course you are wrong (again).

Merriam-Webster:

Jew noun \&#712;jü\

: someone whose religion is Judaism, who is descended from Jewish people, OR who participates in the culture surrounding Judaism

[note that only ONE of the above conditions need be met for the label to apply, making Sammy a Jew as I originally stated]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jew

I accept your surrender and apology. And you still did not respond to my earlier post.
Skulk away quietly and sheepishly.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66412 Jan 27, 2014
The homophobic Jamaican is clearly on the run this morning.

You can tell when he's wrong because he is either speaking or typing.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66413 Jan 27, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---Your application of "time out" is interesting among other things. Have you ever considered looking at REALITY? Observation, I have literally HUNDREDS of UNANSWERED questions that predated "our question". If you look not very far from "our question" YOU shall see many of MY questions which are unanswered. I speak purely from what I know is a pattern of behaviour from US.
Besides Former/Always a Fellow, I also speak with Maat, BMZ, Joel, Alex and even the nastiness Seeker.
Maat----Revise that into you pleaded to me for attention...but yes the question....one of many
HughBe--- And you obliged, Maat. As you are aware my plea was made because I cannot help myself when it comes to you. You ,dear Maat, affect the rhythm of my heart.
As for "the question....one of many" comment, I view it as a genuine human error and not one that will take away from your almost Greek goddess status.
Have a beautiful day.
Apropos inuendo at the avatar of statuesque* MAAT that has a time out allready for thousands of years, i guess 'how do you do' and 'why do you not respond to my questions' are the main iterated categories.

Just looking at reality here!

* I'm not aware of any actual statue ever having been forwarded. Google thus.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66414 Jan 27, 2014
Oi forgot they feature me twice on the theba.

https://www.google.nl/search...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66415 Jan 27, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this different than arguing about Judaism or anything from the Old Testament?
Fair is fair.
Actually, it is different.

Because Hughbe is supposedly basing his notion of a messiah on prophecy (i.e. references) on the OT, but to resolve the contradiction between his messiah and the prophecy he has to rely on information from the NT. Basically he has to discard the internal logic of the system he pretends to embrace, and receive and externality, AND THEN go back to the original system. Its intellectually dishonest.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66416 Jan 27, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, he did kind of talk (and sing) with his hands.
But of course you are wrong (again).
Merriam-Webster:
Jew noun \&#712;jü\
: someone whose religion is Judaism, who is descended from Jewish people, OR who participates in the culture surrounding Judaism
[note that only ONE of the above conditions need be met for the label to apply, making Sammy a Jew as I originally stated]
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jew
I accept your surrender and apology. And you still did not respond to my earlier post.
Skulk away quietly and sheepishly.
ethno-religious thingie again.

Jews have been accepting converts for ages. Ruth in the bible.

Whether our descent has been (in)consistently matrilineal or patrilineal (which he spends most of his post on) is a red herring at best and a straw argument at worst.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66417 Jan 27, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it is different.
Because Hughbe is supposedly basing his notion of a messiah on prophecy (i.e. references) on the OT, but to resolve the contradiction between his messiah and the prophecy he has to rely on information from the NT. Basically he has to discard the internal logic of the system he pretends to embrace, and receive and externality, AND THEN go back to the original system. Its intellectually dishonest.
One could argue that religion itself is on intellectually shaky ground.

Is his point that Jesus was Jewish? And therefore what? His followers are Jewish? Like him?

It's difficult for me to follow his reasoning.(Go figure!)

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66418 Jan 27, 2014
HughBe wrote:
Step 1--- Did Jesus have Gentile blood? NO
Incorrect. Gentile refers to non-Israelites. If I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that Jesus was sired by God (a BIG if...), then he most certainly had Gentile blood, since God is NOT an Israelite.
HughBe wrote:
Step 2--- Was Mary a Jew? YES
Step 3--- Was Mary a JEW with David's bloodline? YES
Your only source of knowledge of Jesus' geneology is the NT. However, the NT gives conflicting geneologies (in the Gospels of Luke and Matthew),

"Both gospels state that Jesus was fathered, not by Joseph, but by God, being born to Mary through a virgin birth. At the same time they claim a direct descent from David, and thus a legal inheritance of the throne. The lists are identical between Abraham and David, but differ radically from that point onward. Traditional Christian scholars have put forward various theories that seek to explain why the lineages are so different, such as that Matthew's account follows the lineage of Joseph, while Luke's follows the lineage of Mary.

Many Biblical scholars tend to see these genealogies as inventions, conforming to Jewish literary convention." ".( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jes... )
HughBe wrote:
Step 4--- Was Mary Jesus' BIOLOGICAL mother? YES
Step 5--- Given that Mary was Jesus' BIOLOGICAL mother He must have had her JEWISH chromosomes thus making Him a Jew.
Granted. If Mary was Jesus' mother, he shares her chromosones. But we're talking paternal heritage, not maternal.
HughBe wrote:
Step 6-- Understand this basic science. All persons not including Adam, Eve and Jesus have Chromosomes from TWO parents.
Only assuming the accounts in the OT/NT are an accurate, literal account of a historical fact, and not a bunch of made up stories or allegories, as I (and many religious scholars) believe it is. What is more likely to those of us that are reasonable, rational people is that Mary most likely had a pre-marital "encounter" with Joseph, or perhaps some other studly man from her village, or possibly even with a Roman soldier. Those earthly explanations make far more sense than a virgin birth. Let's keep Occam's razor in perspective ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam 's_razor).
HughBe wrote:
Step 7-- The Genes of the father are esteemed ABOVE the genes of the mother but the child has both sets of genes and not even in ancient times would people deny that a child is the product of both parents. Now, in the case of Jesus the Christ, He had the genes of His mother. There are no genes from any father Jewish or otherwise and so there is no male genes that can be ESTEEMED above that of Mary. The genes of Mary then serves to give Jesus His Jewish IDENTITY as there is not another set of human genes to make it otherwise.
Congratulations. Your logical fallacy is...

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-plea...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66420 Jan 27, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
One could argue that religion itself is on intellectually shaky ground.
Is his point that Jesus was Jewish? And therefore what? His followers are Jewish? Like him?
It's difficult for me to follow his reasoning.(Go figure!)
When someone bases his worldview on the literal interpretation of a book of allegories (whose stories are inconsistent at best), is it any surprise that his "reasoning" is difficult to follow?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66421 Jan 27, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
One could argue that religion itself is on intellectually shaky ground.
Is his point that Jesus was Jewish? And therefore what? His followers are Jewish? Like him?
It's difficult for me to follow his reasoning.(Go figure!)
From my POV its not about absolute truth, but logic.

Hughe has bought into the OT rules of engagement. Which stipulate that the messiah has to be a descendant of (King) David. The OT obviously does not address his geneology (it doesnt even address him).

So Hugh has to go to the NT. Which of course I would not accept under any circumstances. But even if I was to accept it, it is contradictory on the question. So, in summary, Hugh has to go OUTSIDE the system (the OT), and even then still cant use the NT for the above reasons.

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