Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65417 Jan 8, 2014
WARNING TO THE MODERATOR:

If the Moderator of this thread does not refrain from blocking my posts, I will be forced to report the matter to the police or to some other law enforcement authority in the US where I have many influential contacts.

Take care, Moderator.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65418 Jan 8, 2014
POSTERS:

If my posts that are perfectly legal/polite keep getting blocked by the Moderator of this thread, I will see to it that the Moderator is sacked and those behind this dirty game are fined by law or taken care off by the law enforcement authorities in the US.

I have many influential friends in the US.

I will not tolerate this dictatorial behavior anymore.

Today morning, while sitting in a bank, I began thinking about this ugly episode of the Moderator repeatedly getting my posts deleted and while, in thought, I left behind a small bag containing the equivalent of around $ 40,000 that I was carrying with me. On rushing back to the bank, I discovered the bag had been picked up by someone.

I have filed a police complaint in the matter.

With regard to the case of my posts getting deleted, I will not hesitate to talk to my friends in the US and urge them to get the matter investigated and the guilty persons punished or penalized in some form or the other.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65419 Jan 8, 2014
Hugh,

I will reply to your post, later.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#65420 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
If creationism is revelation, the same old question remains - how did this universe come into existence?
Is this G-d who gives out revelations to his chosen prophets of extra-cosmic origin?
If this G-d is of extra-cosmic origin, then, again, we're pushed into the illogic of creation from nothing.
A creator G-d who rules the universe has to an extra-cosmic G-d who somehow managed to create the universe from nothing and in the absence of a causal link he yet somehow manages to rule or to control the universe. Illogical - to say the least.
Personally, I dont believe in an extracosmic entity. I believe in a unity. I am somewhere near the position of Spinoza. Evolution and all that is therein is God.

As far as the philosophical approach you are taking - I am of the view that language forces us to objectify, so the quandary you are in is a result of language, not logic.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#65421 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL wrote:
WARNING TO THE MODERATOR:
If the Moderator of this thread does not refrain from blocking my posts, I will be forced to report the matter to the police or to some other law enforcement authority in the US where I have many influential contacts.
Take care, Moderator.
You do realize that our participation in this website is a privilege, not a right?

Chill, this too shall pass
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#65423 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
Hugh,
I will reply to your post, later.
Ok, Mon.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65424 Jan 8, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Personally, I don't believe in an extra-cosmic entity.
The G-d of the Tanach is the Creator and Ruler of the creation.

No where is it mentioned in the book that the universe is a manifestation of this G-d.

The 6 day creation myth in Genesis makes it amply clear that this G-d created the universe and lords over it.

In the absence of any mention of the process of manifestation of the universe from the source in the Bible and in view of the G-d of this book positioning itself as the Creator, Almighty and Ruler of the universe thus we are forced to enter the illogical domain of creation from nothing by an extra-cosmic G-d who somehow manged to fabricate the energy and consciousness needed to create the universe from nothing.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65426 Jan 8, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Evolution and all that is therein is God.

.
If evolution and all that is therein is God, as you say, then, you should consider yourself G-d in the essence - Tat Tvam Asi (THAT I am).

From the nondual perspective, even the worm is G-d in the essence.

No where in the Bible is perfect identity of God with the creation ever hinted at and a huge gulf exists between the two with the latter considered a created entity by an all-powerful G-d who is the creator, almighty and ruler of the universe.

As an aside, if by evolution you mean a series of punctuated emergences of the differing degrees of consciousness-energy from a state of involution then the understanding is correct.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65427 Jan 8, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Ok, Mon.
Ya Ma.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65428 Jan 8, 2014
FRIJOLES: I believe in a unity.

JOEL - The word unity is a misnomer like the words spirit, nothing, extra-cosmic and creation from nothing.

Unity means that several disparate elements are somehow joined.

What joins these disparate elements?

By what process is the unity formed from disparate elements?

How in the first place were the materials - energy and consciousness - needed to project the universe into existence fabricated by this G-d?

If by unity you mean a oneness between the creator and the created then the Bible that preaches pure dualism in violation of the causal law does not support this view of perfect nondual identity of the created with the creator.

If G-d and creation is one in the essence then you, I, the rat, the devil, the shit, the sperm, the pebble, the atom, the cloud, the star, the angel and everything else is nothing else but this G-d in the essence with these objects being the manifestations of this source.

G-d = Joel in the essence is the nondual view.

Nondualism does not speak of unity since unity means the joining together of several disparate streams.

Nondualism implies that the One manifested as the Many or that the many are the manifestations of the One.

So, in the essence, One = Many.

The source and the manifestation is one in the essence and the source being the transcendent reality is thus supracosmic.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65430 Jan 8, 2014
FRIJOLES: You do realize that our participation in this website is a privilege, not a right?

JOEL: Agreed, but previlges go well with unbias and lack of dictatorial behavior.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65431 Jan 8, 2014
FRIJOLES:

Chill, this too shall pass

JOEL:

I hope so. If things don't improve, I am not going to take this lightly.

I just received an offer from a tracking agency asking me if I wanted to know the names and location of the 2 persons who are tracking me and acting aginst my interets on this thread.

I will reply to them later.

My friends in the US can appraoch the police or the higher ups in Topix.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65432 Jan 8, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

As far as the philosophical approach you are taking - I am of the view that language forces us to objectify, so the quandary you are in is a result of language, not logic
G-d is not the absolute.

The absolute can only be a field of conscious-energy.

G-d, devil, human being, mind, vital, earth etc are so many manifestations of the field.

The reality in all its manifestations and as the absolute has to be experienced and manifested in mind, vital, body, subconscious and surroundings.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#65433 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
The G-d of the Tanach is the Creator and Ruler of the creation.
No where is it mentioned in the book that the universe is a manifestation of this G-d.
The 6 day creation myth in Genesis makes it amply clear that this G-d created the universe and lords over it.
In the absence of any mention of the process of manifestation of the universe from the source in the Bible and in view of the G-d of this book positioning itself as the Creator, Almighty and Ruler of the universe thus we are forced to enter the illogical domain of creation from nothing by an extra-cosmic G-d who somehow manged to fabricate the energy and consciousness needed to create the universe from nothing.
Everyone is entitled to their interpretation. But as Jew, I dont just read the primary text, I also consider the commentary such as the midrash and other sources, such as the writings of the early Hasidim.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#65434 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL wrote:
FRIJOLES: I believe in a unity.
JOEL - The word unity is a misnomer like the words spirit, nothing, extra-cosmic and creation from nothing.
Unity means that several disparate elements are somehow joined.
What joins these disparate elements?
By what process is the unity formed from disparate elements?
How in the first place were the materials - energy and consciousness - needed to project the universe into existence fabricated by this G-d?
If by unity you mean a oneness between the creator and the created then the Bible that preaches pure dualism in violation of the causal law does not support this view of perfect nondual identity of the created with the creator.
If G-d and creation is one in the essence then you, I, the rat, the devil, the shit, the sperm, the pebble, the atom, the cloud, the star, the angel and everything else is nothing else but this G-d in the essence with these objects being the manifestations of this source.
G-d = Joel in the essence is the nondual view.
Nondualism does not speak of unity since unity means the joining together of several disparate streams.
Nondualism implies that the One manifested as the Many or that the many are the manifestations of the One.
So, in the essence, One = Many.
The source and the manifestation is one in the essence and the source being the transcendent reality is thus supracosmic.
You are over intellectualizing this.

"If G-d and creation is one in the essence then you, I, the rat, the devil, the shit, the sperm, the pebble, the atom, the cloud, the star, the angel and everything else is nothing else but this G-d in the essence with these objects being the manifestations of this source.."

Or revelations of this source.(difference is whether you think in terms of nouns or verbs). But I basically agree.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#65435 Jan 8, 2014
JOEL wrote:
FRIJOLES: I believe in a unity.
JOEL - The word unity is a misnomer like the words spirit, nothing, extra-cosmic and creation from nothing.
.
The problem is English. Too many implications.

Really what I believe in is "echad".
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65436 Jan 8, 2014
FRIJOLES: As far as the philosophical approach you are taking - I am of the view that language forces us to objectify, so the quandary you are in is a result of language, not logic.

JOEL: G-d is not the absolute.

The absolute can only be a field of conscious-energy.

G-d, devil, human being, mind, vital, earth etc are so many manifestations of the field.

The reality in all its manifestations and as the absolute has to be experienced and manifested in mind, vital, body, subconscious and surroundings.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65438 Jan 8, 2014
FRIJOLES: Everyone is entitled to their interpretation. But as Jew, I dont just read the primary text, I also consider the commentary such as the midrash and other sources, such as the writings of the early Hasidim.

JOEL: Jewish rabbinic sages are not yogis nor are they highly intellectual in an intuittive way. The reality and its manifested modes remain far out of their reach. If the G-d of the Tanach and the prophets and patriarchs failed to understand the deeper mysteries of the reality and were content to pass of inferior knolwdedge as the highest then what can one expect from the rabbis who're mere talkers and book swallowers? LOL.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#65439 Jan 8, 2014
ECHAD?

Deut 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [Echad]!"

This is an egoistic exercise indulged in by a typal being, here YHVH, who announces his supremacy over all his competitors. It's a veiled warning to the Israelites to exclusively worship the one G-d of the tribe (and as such to stay away from other Gods failing which harsh punishments like the death penalty would be meted out to the apostate).

The words unity etc are misnomers, as explained in previous posts.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#65440 Jan 8, 2014
ECHAD?

Deut 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [Echad]!"

This is an egoistic exercise indulged in by a typal being, here YHVH, who announces his supremacy over all his competitors. It's a veiled warning to the Israelites to exclusively worship the one G-d of the tribe (and as such to stay away from other Gods failing which harsh punishments like the death penalty would be meted out to the apostate).

The words unity etc are misnomers, as explained in previous posts.

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